Show cover of The Naked Gospel

The Naked Gospel

The Naked Gospel explores what it means to be sexed image bearers of a relational God. To that end, we have candid and raw discussions about relationships, sexual ethics, theology, pornography, sex trafficking, singleness, marriage, and everything in between. 


Does the Bible allow Women to Lead Men?? Dr. Nijay Gupta
Biblical scholar Nijay Gupta joins us to talk about women in Scripture. Shane asks Nijay about the male focus of Scripture, why Jesus only picked men as his apostles, and the role of women in the church. Support these conversations for $5 and you also get a Naked Gospel coffee mug! Check out Nijay's book: To Tell Her Story ( K. Gupta (PhD, New Testament, University of Durham) is a professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary. Previously, he was a professor of New Testament at Portland Seminary, where he also oversaw the Master's thesis program, and advises doctoral students. He is the author of the book Worship That Makes Sense to Paul and Prepare, Succeed, Advance: A Guidebook for Getting a PhD in Biblical Studies and Beyond along with Bible commentaries and over a dozen academic articles in theological journals.Follow him on Twitter: @Nijaykgupta.Read his blog at him speak about Christ working through our weakness
64:23 8/22/23
Genesis and the Exile Story: What is the Bible's Bad News?? w/ Mitchell Chase
It’s common to speak of living in a “fallen world,” but what precisely does this mean? What is the bad news that the gospel is actually addressing? In this episode, Shane and Dr. Chase look at Genesis to try and make sense of the exile and fall story. Support this show for just $5 and get a Naked Gospel coffee mug! of Glory: A Biblical and Theological Exploration of the Fall ( L. Chase (PhD, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary) is an associate professor of biblical studies at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He is also the preaching pastor of Kosmosdale Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky, and is the author of several books. He blogs regularly at Biblical Theology on Substack.Substack: @mitchellchase
66:19 8/7/23
Genesis and Gender: Is There a Difference Between Men and Women? w/ Dr. Carmen Imes
What does gender have to do with God?? Do men and women reflect God differently? If someone has a disability do they reflect less of God? Dr. Carmen Imes lets us ask these questions and so many more! Check out the Disruptor Initiative at out Dr. Imes' book: Being God's Image: Why Creation Still MattersCarmen Joy Imes (PhD, Wheaton) is associate professor of Old Testament at Biola University. She is the author of Bearing YHWH's Name at Sinai, Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters and Praying the Psalms with Augustine and Friends.Visit her website and read her blog at out here YouTube content at her on Twitter: @carmenjoyimes.
64:49 7/7/23
Porn in the Church and What to do about It! w/ Wailer
Porn is not some distant sin; we all know at least one person who struggles with it. For many, using porn is just an assumed reality, even if no one else knows about it. Why don't we see more churches seriously addressing pornography? And is there a real way that we can help those around us get free and heal from porn?? In this episode, we look at a specific way that thousands of men and women are being restored from the entrapment of pornography. Click here if you or someone you know is looking for help! ( here if you want to help those who are struggling!(
67:48 6/20/23
Same-Sex Attraction, Celibacy, and Intimacy: Art Pereira
Every person wants to be known by others, and everyone knowns what loneliness is like—regardless of sexual orientation or theological position. Art Pereira works for Revoice and is same-sex attracted. Art lives a life of celibacy, but he refuses to believe that a life of celibacy is the same thing as a life of loneliness. Art joins us to discuss relationships within God's family. Check out the Disruptor Initiative here! out Revoice and the resources they've created! is the Director of Community Care for Revoice. Art immigrated from Brazil with his parents when he was 4 years old, and has lived in New Jersey since. Art lives with his best friend/chosen brother. Art has spent the past decade working in local church youth ministry, predominately in the suburbs. Between his immigration background and his experience as a sexual minority, he loves to build bridges between different communities. Art especially has a heart for community and friendship in the Church. 
91:21 5/20/23
Non-Toxic Masculinity?! w/ Zachary Wagner
Zachary Wagner recently wrote a book about non-toxic masculinity. He joins us for a very honest conversation about the damaged sexuality we see in the church and all around us as well as what a restored sexuality could really look like. Check out the Disruptor Initiative here! a copy of Non-Toxic Masculinity here! Wagner is an ordained minister and editorial director for the Center for Pastor Theologians. He is currently pursuing a PhD in New Testament at the University of Oxford. He lives in Oxford, England, with his wife and three children.
60:28 5/4/23
Spiritual Formation and Sexuality: Sathiya Sam
Many of us believe in Jesus and still feel stuck, even trapped. So, why aren't we experiencing the good news that Jesus said He came to give? Where is redemption and salvation in the areas we struggle the most? Sathiya Sam joins to discuss all these questions and more! Support this show for $5 and join the Disruptor Initiative! Sam is a coach and speaker that helps men live with confidence and integrity. A recovered addict himself, Sathiya is the creator of DeepCleanTM – a research-based and Bible-backed system for overcoming porn addiction and author of The Last Relapse. This work has helped everyone from college students to medical doctors regain control of their lives and walk in greater levels of freedom. Based out of Toronto, Canada, Sathiya is happily married and a die-hard basketball fan. Check out Sathiya's book here: - www.sathiyasam.comFree Online Community - Unleash The Man Within Podcast - - - 
81:00 3/9/23
Lust and Lent: Rediscovering Intimacy
What do we do when we continue fail over and over again? What do we do when our desires don't line up with the truth we know? What is the place of desires in the Christian life? And how do we recapture the intimacy that we no longer feel? Lent is an ancient practice that has been shaping Christians lives for nearly two thousand years. But what is Lent, and what does it have to do with lust? Join us as we discuss Lent, lust, and rediscovering intimacy! Check out the Disruptor Initiative here! this episode with a friend!And if you want to go the distance, leave us a review on whatever platform you're listening on! 
35:31 3/1/23
A God Who Hates, Weeps, and Loves: A Theology of Emotions—David T. Lamb
The God of the Bible is emotional. Many Christians don't want to associate emotions with God. Emotions feel irrational, and the idea of God experiencing hate, anger, and jealousy can be confusing and problematic. And yet the Bible is full of stories where God expresses deep emotion. Does God feel, and what is the place of feelings in the Christian life? Join Shane and Biblical scholar David T. Lamb as they explore a theology of emotions. Help support these conversations for $5!— out Dr. David T. Lamb's book The Emotions of God!— David T. Lamb is the Allan A. MacRae Professor of Old Testament and dean of faculty at Missio Seminary in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He previously worked in campus ministry with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and has taught extensively in various crosscultural contexts. He is the author of God Behaving Badly, Righteous Jehu and His Evil Heirs, and The Historical Writings: Introducing Israel's Historical Literature (coauthored with Mark Leuchter).
81:09 12/21/22
Sexual Abuse in the Bible and in the Church: Dr. Caryn A. Reeder (Listener Discretion Advised)
Have you ever heard a sermon about any of the rape or sexual abuse passages in Scripture? Not many of us have. Dr. Caryn Reeder joins us to talk about how our reading of Scripture impacts our relationships and actions in the Church. *Listener Discretion is AdvisedSupport this show for $5 and get a FREE Naked Gospel coffee mug! ( out Dr. Reeder's book — The Samaritan Woman's Story: Reconsidering John 4 After #ChurchToo( A. Reeder (PhD, University of Cambridge) is professor of New Testament and co-coordinator of the Gender Studies program at Westmont College. Her books include The Enemy in the Household: Family Violence in Deuteronomy and Beyond and Gendering War and Peace in the Gospel of Luke.
57:26 12/8/22
Why Do We Believe Sin is Beautiful and Continue to Pursue it?? w/ Dr. Joe Wooddell
Whether we're pastors, missionaries, or everyday Christians, we know that sin is wrong, harmful, and that we'll feel miserable afterward. So, why do we go back to the same sins over and over again? Why do pastors who know and teach God's truth still pursue sexual sin? Why do Christians watch porn and have affairs as much as non-Christians? In short, why do we believe that sin is beautiful and continue to pursue it? Dr. Joe Wooddell has a Ph.D. in the study of beauty and joins us to talk about the power of beauty upon our beliefs and actions. Support this show for just $5 at: Joe Wooddell grew up in Cincinnati, served three years in the Army, got saved and called to ministry in the military. He did his B.S. at Liberty University in Music, an M.Div. at Southwestern Seminary in Ft. Worth, TX, where he also received his Ph.D. in Philosophy of Religion and Theology. Dr. Wooddell completed an M.A. in Political Science at University of Texas, Arlington. He is married with three kids and enjoys traveling, hiking, running, reading, and spending time with family and friends.Check out Joe's work below!The Beauty of the Faith: Using Aesthetics for Christian Apologetics ( Baptist Faith and Message 2000: Critical Issues in America's Largest Protestant Denomination (
67:29 12/1/22
Why are Marriages Failing?? w/ marriage counselor Dr. David Hawkins
People are have become hesitant to get married and quicker to get divorced. Why are marriages failing and why is marriage counseling failing? Marriage counselor, Dr. David Hawkins, joins us to discuss the beauty of marriage and its difficulties.  Support this show for $5: out Dr. Hawkins' book here: David Hawkins, MBA, MSW, MA, PhD, is a clinical psychologist who has brought healing and restoration to thousands of marriages and individuals since he began his work in 1976. He is passionate about helping couples heal marriage wounds and rediscover deeper connection and intimacy. In addition to marriage counseling, Dr. Hawkins is a leader in the field of treatment for narcissism and emotional abuse in the context of relationships. Dr. Hawkins is the founder of the Marriage Recovery Center in Mill Creek, Washington, north of Seattle. A speaker and trainer for the American Association of Christian Counselors, he writes for,, and, and has made regular appearances on Moody Radio and Faith Radio. Dr. Hawkins is a best-selling author of over thirty books, including When Pleasing Others Is Hurting Youand Dealing with the CrazyMakers in Your Life. He earned his doctorate and master’s degrees in psychology from George Fox University. He also received his MBA from Strayer University and a master’s in social work from Portland State University. Dr. Hawkins and his wife Christie live on Bainbridge Island, Washington, west of Seattle.
53:35 10/6/22
Protecting Your Children from Internet Pornography w/ John Foubert
Dr. John Foubert, a researcher and parent,  joins us to discuss how to protect your children from internet pornography. John and Shane look at questions like: is porn really an issue for children? What can parents do to protect their kids porn exposure? How and when should parents talk about sex? All in all, this conversation considers the science, risks, and ways to protect your children from internet pornography. Support this show and get a Naked Gospel coffee mug for $5! out Dr. John Foubert's latest book Protecting Your Children from Internet Pornography: John Foubert, LLC, is an interdisciplinary scholar and thought leader who uses trauma-informed, data-based practices to write and speak about sexual assault prevention, bystander intervention, and the harms of pornography. Dr. Foubert has been a guest several times on CNN and NPR. He is cited regularly in news outlets like the New York Times, U.S. News and World Report, and the Washington Post.   Dr. Foubert has testified before Congress and has been called upon by the White House and the Pentagon about how to end sexual violence. He travels nationwide to speak to colleges, military units, high schools, conferences, and churches about sexual assault and the harms of pornography. Learn more at
38:26 8/31/22
Pastors and Porn w/ Pastor Will
Pastor Will joins The Naked Gospel podcast to discuss his own history with porn and mental health. Shane and Will talk through issues of abuse among Christian leaders, how Christians should respond to sexual misuse, how we should handle leadership abuse, and what it means to build safe Christian communities. Receive a Naked Gospel coffee mug by supporting this show for $5 at other people find this show by leaving Rating and Review! William Butt is pastor and disciple maker located in Northern Virginia. He is a father and husband working to follow Jesus every day. He holds a master’s degree in Christian Ministries from Liberty University. You can find him on Twitter, william_b04
50:34 7/20/22
What is Purity Culture?! w/ Dean Inserra
Support these conversations by leaving a Rating and Review! What is purity culture? Is it actually an important topic to discuss? What's the history of purity culture and why has it impacted so many people? Without having an attractive and compelling story for sex, more and more Christians are embracing the hookup culture story for sex. Pastor Dean Inserra joins us today for a conversation about purity culture. As a pastor, Dean has watched Christians reject purity culture, but without anywhere to go, those same Christians are now living into hookup culture. So, where do we go from here? Support this show at: out and use promo code nakedgospel to get 5% off! Check out Pastor Dean's book here: DEAN INSERRA is a graduate of Liberty University and holds a M.A. in Theological Studies from Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. He is the founding pastor of City Church. Dean is passionate about reaching the city of Tallahassee with the Gospel, to see a worldwide impact made for Jesus. He is married to Krissie and they have two sons, Tommy and Ty, and one daughter, Sally Ashlyn. 
29:12 6/22/22
Life Beyond Porn w/ Drew Boa and Sathiya Sam
Drew Boa and Sathiya Sam both founded organizations that help men and women rebuild relationships, heal from trauma, and recover from unwanted sexual desires. This is the first of many episodes where Drew, Sathiya, and Shane will get together to discuss the landscape of sexual integrity and sexual pain — from porn, lust, love, to science, the church, and secular culture. Let us know your thoughts below! Check Drew's resources at: https://www.drewboa.comCheck out Sathiya's resources at: https://www.sathiyasam.comSupport this show for $5 at:
67:47 6/8/22
Masculinity and the Sex Industry w/ Alan Smyth
Listener Discretion Advised (this is a raw and hard conversation) The president of Saving Innocence joins us today to talk about sex exploitation and how men are the primary perpetrators. What can men do to turn from being perpetrators to become protectors? Support this show and what we do for $5 a month! Check out Alan and Jessica's book here!Alan serves as the Executive Director for Saving Innocence, an anti-human trafficking, community based organization focused on the recovery and restoration of child victims of sex trafficking. Based in Los Angeles, Alan has responsibility over Direct Services and Business Operations. His main focus includes budgeting and resource development, strategic partnerships, staff development and client services. You can learn more about Saving Innocence at
45:18 3/23/22
Inside the Industry with a Former Porn Star: Crissy Outlaw
Listener Discretion Advised. Former porn star Crissy Outlaw joins us to discuss how she got into the porn industry and what the porn industry is like. Help us fight for people like Crissy supporting this show for $5 dollars a month! In 1999, Crissy Outlaw began working in adult entertainment. She was in the business until 2006, when she became a Christian. Since leaving the industry, she has spoken out about the harmful effects of porn and has helped other women also transition out of the sex industry. Her story has been featured in a number of publications, films, documentaries, and, most recently, a TV mini series. Crissy shares her story at conferences, universities, churches, and community groups throughout the United States and abroad. In 2013, Crissy married the love of her life. They live in Houston, Texas.
66:12 3/16/22
Fantasy, Shame, and Love vs. Lust w/ Corey Latta
In this episode, Shane and Corey talk through how fantasy is used in lust and how imagination can be used in prayer. Along with that, Dr. Latta also helps us to see that our draw to stimulation is also an addiction to shame, and he helps us to see the good news in the midst of our shame. As a practitioner, Dr. Latta helps us to look at these issues not only as thinker but also as a counselor. Support this show at: Latta, PhD, is a husband, father, writer, speaker, counselor, as well as the author of When the Eternal Can Be Met, C. S. Lewis and the Art of Writing and the forthcoming Serve the Work: Reflections on Christ and the Creative Life. Corey is the father of four (two sets of twins!), Justice, London, Gus, and Emma. Check out Corey's books here:
67:11 3/8/22
Lewis and Tolkien: Imagination and Sexuality w/ Michael Ward and Holly Ordway
Support this show by leaving us a rating and review! C. S. Lewis scholar Michael Ward and J. R. R. Tolkien scholar Holly Ordway join us today to discuss the place of fantasy and imagination in the Christian life. Is fantasy always a bad thing?  What is imagination? Can reason and imagination have a healthy relationship? What does imagination even have to do with sex? Join us as we discuss these questions and several more! Support this show for $5 dollars here! Check out Dr. Ward's latest book, After Humanity. And check out Dr. Ordway's latest book, Tolkien's Modern Reading.MICHAEL WARD, a Catholic priest, is Senior Research Fellow at Blackfriars Hall, University of Oxford, and Professor of Apologetics at Houston Baptist University. He is the author of the best-selling and award-winning Planet Narnia: The Seven Heavens in the Imagination of C.S. Lewis, co-editor of The Cambridge Companion to C.S. Lewis, and presenter of the BBC television documentary The Narnia Code. On the fiftieth anniversary of Lewis’s death, Michael Ward unveiled a permanent national memorial to him in Poets’ Corner, Westminster Abbey, London.Click here to view Dr. Ward's website and resources!Holly Ordway is Fellow of Faith and Culture at the Word on Fire Institute. She holds a PhD in English from the University of Massachusetts Amherst. She is the author of Apologetics and the Christian Imagination: An Integrated Approach to Defending the Faith (Emmaus Road, 2017), and Not God’s Type: An Atheist Academic Lays Down Her Arms (Ignatius, 2014). She is also a Subject Editor for the Journal of Inklings Studies, Visiting Professor at Houston Baptist University, and a published poet. Her academic work focuses on imaginative apologetics, and on the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien. Her forthcoming book is Tolkien’s Modern Reading: Middle-earth Beyond the Middle Ages (Word on Fire Academic, 2021). Her website is
74:06 3/2/22
Life After Porn
This episode finishes up the independent mini-series on porn. Cale joins this episode as he and Shane discuss porn in their own life, how they've addressed it, and what life looks like after porn. As always thank you for your support! Share your thoughts with us, leave a review, and if you'd like to support this show for $5 check out this link!
37:43 2/23/22
How to Get Free from Porn w/ Ted Shimer
Ted Shimer joins us so that we can ask him the harder questions around pornography. In this episode, Shane and Ted talk about how common porn actually is in the Church and what it really takes to get clean and free. Check out Ted's book The Freedom Fight: The New Drug and the Truths that Set Us FreeSupport this show for $5 and get a Naked Gospel coffee mug! Ted Shimer has mentored men since 1991 with the collegiate ministry Student Mobilization. He received his MABS from Dallas Seminary and was trained as a Pastoral Sex Addiction Professional-Supervisor.His discipleship background, theological instruction and world class clinical training gives Ted a unique and grounded approach to porn addiction recovery that is biblically based, scientifically sound, gospel centered and effective.Ted is the Founder of The Freedom Fight, an online porn addiction recovery program.Ted and his wife Amber have four adult children and live in Fayetteville, Arkansas.
51:33 2/16/22
Josh McDowell: Porn and Abuse in the Church
Author, speaker, and apologist Josh McDowell joins us today to discuss porn and abuse in the Church. Josh has spoken to over 46 million people in 139 countries and he began warning the Church about porn over 20 years ago. In this interview, we discuss the damage of pornography and what it looks like to find healing. Support this show for $5 and get a Naked Gospel coffee mug! Josh has addressed more than 46 million people, giving over 27,200 talks in 139 countries.Josh and his team have created many cutting-edge live events to help young people stand strong and firm in their faith in the face of a rapidly-changing culture. These have often developed into full-blown campaigns. Since 1960, Josh has written or co-authored 151 books in 128 languages including:More Than a Carpenter — over 27 million copies distributedEvidence That Demands a Verdict — named one the twentieth century’s top 40 books and one of the thirteen most influential books of the last 50 years on Christian thought by World Magazine.In addition to many other awards, Josh has been nominated 36 times for the Gold Medallion Award and has received that award on four occasions.
32:21 2/9/22
The Last Relapse w/ Sathiya Sam
 How should we be honest about porn in our life and what is the place of forgiveness in healing? This episode kicks us off our four week mini-series on pornography. Sathiya Sam joins us to discuss his story with porn.  Check out Sathiya's book here: this show for $5 and become a Disruptor: Sam is a coach and speaker that helps men live with confidence and integrity. A recovered addict himself, Sathiya is the creator of DeepCleanTM – a research-based and Bible-backed system for overcoming porn addiction and author of The Last Relapse. This work has helped everyone from college students to medical doctors regain control of their lives and walk in greater levels of freedom. Based out of Toronto, Canada, Sathiya is happily married and a die-hard basketball fan. Website - www.sathiyasam.comFree Online Community - Unleash The Man Within Podcast - - - 
37:43 2/2/22
Questioning God w/ John Hopper
Support this show by leaving a Rating and Review! Today, John Hopper joins us to talk about faith and reason in the Christian life. We're taking a short break from looking specifically at sexual ethics to examine the place of apologetics in the Christian life. What does it mean to question God? What does it mean to be a witness? Join us as we look at these questions and more! John Hopper has discussed questions about God and life with Muslim clerics in Uzbekistan, Buddhist monks in Canada, slum-dwellers in Guatemala and tennis professionals at Wimbledon. Now, he serves as Houston Area Director for Search Ministries, a nationwide organization focused on creating opportunities for stimulating, sensitive and respectful conversations for those wrestling with life’s big questions. Prior to joining Search, John served for 16 years as a pastor at BridgePoint Bible Church in Houston.John has always enjoyed learning and was in school far too long! He earned a B.A. in Economics at Trinity University, an M.Ed. at the University of Houston, an M.A. in Transformational Leadership at Bethel University, and a D.Min. at Biola University, where he focused on Christian apologetics and worldview studies.Check out more about this author and his work at
38:31 1/5/22
Year-End Review: Looking at 2021
Shane and Heather look back on what's happened culturally and with the podcast this past year. They look at the themes, conversations, and guests of 2021. Become a Disruptor for $5 a month here! Books of the Year: The Death of Porn by Ray OrtlundOur Bodies tell God's Story by Christopher WestThe Soul of Shame by Curt ThompsonWhat God has to Say about Our Bodies by Sam Allberry
23:54 12/22/21
Dispatch: Billie Eilish and Porn
In an interview with Howard Stern, Billie Eilish discussed how pornography destroyed her brain and her understanding of sex. In this episode, we discuss how Eilish's exposure at such a young age is as devastating as she says it was and how that pattern is perpetuating among young people everywhere.If you need help with unwanted sexual behavior, reach out here:
10:49 12/15/21
What is Masculinity W/ Justin Camp
What is masculinity? What does it mean to be manly? Why are men in the church struggling so much with loneliness, depression, anxiety, and pornography? And how is all this impacting women in our lives? Justin Camp joins today to discuss these questions and several more! Support this show and help shape it by becoming a Disruptor here! Check out Justin's latest book, Rescue! Justin is a writer and a storyteller with a heart for adventure. Justin co-founded Gather Ministries with his wife, Jennifer, and created the popular WiRE for Men devotional. Justin also writing The WiRE Series for Men—a set of books for the publisher David C Cook. The first book in the series, Invention, released in spring 2017. Odyssey released in spring 2020, and Rescue released in fall 2021. Invention, Odyssey, Rescue, and the WiRE one-year compilation ebook were all Amazon #1 bestsellers.Check out gather ministries here! me | WiRE | amazon
34:54 12/15/21
Sam Allberry: Hook Up Culture and our Bodies
Support this show by leaving a rating and review! Sam Allberry joins us in this episode to discuss the place our bodies have both theology and the culture around us. Sam and Shane talk about Jesus as an embodied person, how Christians should approach their bodies, and how to have hope in the midst of hook up culture. Partner with us for $5 a month and receive a free Naked Gospel coffee mug! Check out Sam's latest book, What God Has to Say about Our BodiesSam Allberry is a pastor, apologist, and speaker. He is the author of 7 Myths About Singleness, Why Does God Care Who I Sleep With?, and, most recently, What God Has to Say About Our Bodies. He is in the process of moving to the United States to join the staff at Immanuel Nashville, is a Canon Theologian for the Anglican Church in North America, and is the co-host (with Ray Ortlund) of TGC’s podcast You’re Not Crazy: Gospel Sanity for Young Pastors.
42:40 11/24/21
Should Christians have Desires? w/ Curt Thompson
 Desire is often thought of as a bad thing amongst Christians, so what should Christians do with their desires? What is the place of desires? And does God care about our desires? Dr. Curt Thompson joins us to discuss the place of desires and longings in the Christian life. Shane and Curt talk through the desires of Jesus, how our emotions allow us to know God, and what it looks like to reshape desires.  Support this show for $5 a month and get a naked gospel coffee mug (amongst other things!)Get a copy of Dr. Thompson's book The Soul of Desire!Psychiatrist, speaker and author Curt Thompson connects our intrinsic desire to be known with the need to tell truer stories about ourselves — showing us how to form deep relationships, discover meaning and live integrated, creative lives. Curt and his wife, Phyllis, live outside of Washington DC and have two adult children.Website            CurtThompsonMDPodcast.           Being Known PodcastInstaGram    CurtThompsonMDFacebook  @CurtThompsonMDTwitter      @Curt_ThompsonMD
64:06 11/3/21