Show cover of SnackWalls


Attract and retain diverse talent in technology the right way.


E75 Natasha Nurse: The Path To An Interesting Career
Hitting a mid week wall? Recharge your batteries with this latest episode of SnackWalls, enjoy!Natasha believes the lack of diversity in tech is a systemic issue. Historically people of color were not necessarily encouraged in their early schooling to pursue STEM careers. If Black and Brown people are unaware of the roles and different opportunities available in tech, then they are less likely to pursue these jobs. Natasha can understand why some companies would want their software engineers to have a CS degree. However, she believes it is more important to focus on a candidate's skills and whether they can get the job done. If a job applicant is self-trained and understands how to get the job done, then the educational piece is just a barrier to entry. The apprenticeship model would be a great way to bring people into tech who may not understand the different opportunities available. If implemented properly, there should be a two way sharing of information and innovation that benefits both the organization and the apprentice. Natasha has found the key to retaining diverse talent is to create a fostering and nurturing environment where employees get resources, support and they have a pathway for elevation in their career, as well as the opportunity to innovate. Natasha Nurse is a coach, speaker, and content creator who helps people actualize their purpose in their careers and personal life. She is a Global D&I Specialist at TaskUs and the founder of Dressing Room 8, an online platform dedicated to helping women find empowerment. Natasha is the Co-Creator and Co-Host of the WokeNFree podcast which provides a glimpse into the minds of a couple with a different take on hot topics. Natasha Nurse: podcast website: WokeNFree Email: wokenfree@gmail.comNew WokeNFree Book: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
14:01 12/17/20
E74 Andrew DeGarmo: Tech DJs
On today's show we sat down with a fellow DJ turned tech professional. Be the first of all your friends to hear this fresh new episode of SnackWalls!While the tech industry is still heavily dominated by male staff, Andrew has found that in his current position, finding diverse talent hasn't been much of a hurdle. It helps that he works at a university where there is a diverse selection of students coming through every year. Andrew thinks that the push to remove CS degree requirements for software engineering roles is a good move. There was a time when people needed to be in a university setting to learn about computer science, however that is not the case anymore. An apprenticeship model, for example, would work in tech because it provides hands on experience that is invaluable and often cannot be taught through coursework alone. In order to retain diverse talent, Andrew would advise companies to be upfront about their views and policies on diversity. The company culture and hiring processes should reflect this commitment so that every employee is on the same page.Andrew DeGarmo is an experienced Web Development leader with a history of working in private, government (DOD) and nonprofit industries. He strives to foster a team environment where progress and accountability are front and center. With a BS in Computer Information Systems, Systems Security, he weighs in on Information Security and Assurance conversations regularly. On a personal level Andrew lives for music and so he launched a boutique record label and DJs professionally. He possesses a certificate in Music Production from the Berklee College of Music.Andrew DeGarmo: Record Label: https://www.stayup.usStay:Up Bandcamp: https://stayup.bandcamp.comMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
12:10 12/14/20
E73 Brandon White: Tech Entrepreneur
Today we sit down with Brandon White, a successful tech entrepreneur who shares some wisdom he has learned on his journey.Brandon thinks finding diverse talent in tech is challenging mainly because the industry is predominantly comprised of males. When building teams, he has actively recruited women because they often bring a different perspective to the group. While he believes the best applicant for the job should always be hired, he realizes that in many cases, the best person isn't getting an opportunity to apply because they may not know about the position. In today's world, Brandon does not see a traditional college degree as a necessity to become a software engineer. How someone learns their skills is of little importance if the applicant can demonstrate their aptitude. An apprenticeship, for example, is a great way to build experience and learn practical skills that can’t be taught in a classroom. Brandon’s has found that there are three major factors to retaining diverse staff. First, employers should appreciate and recognize their staff for the contributions they add to an organization. Secondly, employees should have flexibility in their work schedule, where the emphasis is on getting the job done not working from 9 to 5. Finally, everyone deserves to be paid a fair wage for their work.Brandon White is an entrepreneur with two successful exits (so far) under his belt. He's worked for two venture capital firms, in Marketing at a $200B Internet company, and has been CEO of venture backed companies. He's been featured in Forbes, Entrepreneur Magazine, Success Magazine, Fast Company and many others. Brandon is also the host of Build A Business Success Secrets Podcast for Entrepreneurs, where he shares his knowledge and experience.Brandon White:’s Website: https://brandoncwhite.comMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
19:34 12/9/20
E72 L. Michelle Smith: Rockstar Leader
Having a case of the Mondays? Today's guest is sure to help kick start your week. L. Michelle Smith is an executive business coach, accomplished author, and empowering figure who brought a refreshing perspective to the show. Enjoy! Finding diverse talent is not a challenge, but many companies just don't know where to look. From L. Michelle’s experience, the middle of the leadership pipeline is spewing out overqualified and high performing women of all backgrounds that can be easily recruited. She believes that the current systems in place to join the workforce are ingrained with implicit bias. It is exciting to see large software companies begin to break the paradigm (ex. required CS degrees) and find new ways to be more inclusive. L. Michelle has found that many companies get shortsighted when they think of filling the pipeline with diverse candidates for entry level roles only. Add seats to the board of directors and fill them with people of color. Then move down in the organization and continue diversifying. Once your leadership team is set, then it is more likely that apprenticeships and other programs will be successful.  To retain diverse talent, she believes the key is to focus on women and other marginalized groups. Studies have shown that women of color, specifically Black women, are double outsiders in companies simply because of their chromosomes and melanin. Leaders in organizations need to go over and beyond their comfort level to make sure that talented people of marginalized groups are not overlooked.L. Michelle Smith is the CEO/founder of no silos communications llc a media and consulting company that blends talent development and strategic communications to develop high-performing, women executive leaders. She is the author of No Thanks: 7 Ways to Say I’ll Just Include Myself: A Guide to Rockstar Leadership for Women of Color in the Workplace. L. Michelle is also the creator, executive producer and host of The Culture Soup Podcast® which is heard in 38 countries and has been consistently at the top of the rankings on Apple Podcasts in the Business/Business News and Business/Entrepreneurship categories.L. Michelle Smith: Thanks book website:  http://nothanksbook.comL. Michelle’s coaching practice: http://nsccoaching.coMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
17:28 12/7/20
E71 Erin Orstrom: Confident Candidates Required!
Happy December! We are officially in the home stretch of 2020. As these next few weeks start getting busy, don't forget to tune into your favorite podcast for some great guests and positive vibes!Erin believes that finding diverse talent doesn't have to be challenging for companies. There are plenty of people from non traditional backgrounds that are hungry and curious to break into the tech industry. However, many of these candidates are intimidated from applying to positions when the job description is looking for a “magical unicorn” candidate with unrealistic experience. She has found that a computer science degree will teach the theory behind computers, but it is not necessary for entry level software roles. There are alternative methods (bootcamp programs, online resources, etc..) to learn the necessary skills and help gain the hands on experience to start working in tech. Erin thinks that an apprenticeship pattern can be applied to technical roles if a company has a culture and values to support the program. She believes that in order to recruit and retain diverse talent, companies need to establish a culture that listens and adapts to their employees needs. People should feel encouraged to grow both professionally and personally within their workplace.  Erin Orstrom is a technology professional with 3+ years of experience in software development, business analysis, and 1+ year of product ownership. She excels at liaising between the business and the developers to translate requirements comprehensively between the two parties. Erin enjoys working with others to understand their challenges and implement solutions which create more positive and intuitive user experiences. She is currently serving as a Product Owner at naviHealth.Erin Orstrom: https://www.navihealth.comnaviHealth Linkedin:’s Website: https://erinorstrom.comMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
16:59 12/4/20
E70 Pariss Athena: #BlackTechTwitter
Episode 7-0!!!! That's 70 episodes worth of amazing guests. Today is no different as we have Pariss Athena, the creator of the the #BlackTechTwitter movement. EnjoyPariss believes it is difficult to find diverse talent when you do not personally have a diverse network. However, recruiters can find this talent if they are willing to branch out, network, and engage with people outside of their communities. She thinks that removing CS degree requirements from software roles is the equitable and right thing to do. Many people of color do not have the opportunity of going to college, but can still learn the skills necessary to be successful as a developer through alternative routes. Pariss is a fan of implementing apprenticeship programs within tech companies. It is a great way for someone who is just entering the industry to learn how the company operates, what tech stacks are used, and how teams collaborate. To retain diverse talent, Pariss would advise companies to survey how their staff feels about the current inclusivity and equity practices. Then work on making actionable steps towards constant improvement. Any policies, practices, or procedures that are implemented must be rooted in the foundation of the company and its culture.  Pariss Athena is the Founder & CEO of Black Tech Pipeline, a platform bringing exposure, resources, and opportunities to Black Technologists. She is the creator of the movement and community #BlackTechTwitter, a global movement that brought exposure to the existing Black community in tech.Pariss’ LinkedIn: Tech Pipeline: https://blacktechpipeline.comPariss’ Twitter: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
09:49 12/2/20
E69 Michelle Barnard: Closing The Unemployment Gap
Happy Monday, I hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving. This new episode of SnackWalls pairs well with a helping of leftovers, enjoy! Michelle has noticed that the diverse talent companies are looking for can be found overseas. Our current school system is not producing enough people to match the demand of the tech jobs here in the US. She doesnt think that a CS degree should be mandatory for software engineering roles because this requirement would exclude talented people that might otherwise be a good fit for the role. A degree should be listed on the “nice to have” list and employers should incentivize these candidates with a pay bump. Michelle believes that an apprenticeship pattern in tech would help with the talent supply shortage we face in the US. The next generation of workforce employees are growing up in a different world and might do well with a more hands-on-approach to training. From her experience, the best way to retain diverse employees in an organization is to treat them equally with everyone else. Michelle Barnard is a results-driven human resources professional recognized for success in recruiting high-caliber candidates and repeatedly exceeding placement goals. She works as a Senior Recruiter for Kelly Services and also runs a website (MB Job Seeker Advice) with career services and resources for active job seekers. Aside from being an HR professional, Michelle is a talented tarot card reader.Michelle Barnard: Job Seeker Advice: https://www.michelletaniabarnard.comMichelle’s Tarot Readings: https://mbempresstarot.comTwitter: Channel: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
12:06 11/30/20
E68 Brennan Decker: From Retail To Corporate
With Thanksgiving being tomorrow, we would like to say thanks to all our wonderful guests who engage with us in meaningful conversations and our listeners that tune in every show. It’s been an… interesting year (to say the least), but I think the majority of us still have plenty to give thanks for.Brennan believes finding diverse talent is as hard as you make it. In order to be successful, a company must make a priority to build diversity into their organization and create opportunities for their employees to grow. When scouting for talent, he believes that companies should be focused on hiring good people who are energetic and passionate about the business, not necessarily someone who has a specific educational background. Once a candidate is identified with the right soft skills, that individual can be trained and allowed to grow into the right roles. Brennan likes the idea of using the apprenticeship pattern for tech positions because it gives both the apprentice and the employer an opportunity to determine if they are a good fit for one another. It's a low risk way to test drive from both parties. In regards to retaining diverse talent, Brennan thinks it is critical for companies to talk about the career opportunities that are open to employees from day one. Brennan Decker is the Loyalty Program Manager and Product Owner at Finish Line where he has worked for over 17 years starting in retail and working his way up to a corporate position. He also serves as the Chairman of the Board for Hav A Sole, a 501c3 non profit who provides the homeless and at risk youth with quality footwear to encourage healthier lifestyles and prevent disease. Brennan is in the process of launching, an online resource dedicated to current and aspiring product leaders.Brennan Decker: A Sole: https://havasole.comFinish Line: https://www.finishline.comProduct Leader: https://www.productleader.techMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
14:04 11/25/20
E67 David Strausser: Make Your Own Path
Mondays seem to hit extra hard on short weeks. The only remedy for this is a solid helping of SnackWalls! EnjoyDavid has found that finding diverse talent can be difficult depending on an organization's diversity strategy. Companies who succeed at recruiting this talent, are open about looking for diverse candidates and are willing to establish talent pools with individuals from various areas. David has experienced how degree requirements can pose a barrier for growth to individuals entering the tech industry. In today’s world where many software technologies can be self taught, candidates should be evaluated by their accomplishments not by a piece of paper. If someone has gained the experience necessary to do a job, they should at least be considered for the position. Whether it be vocational schools, apprenticeships, or other programs, there are alternative methods to successfully gain knowledge and experience that don't come from a college degree. David believes the best way to retain diverse candidates is by establishing a culture from the top down, that is inclusive and welcoming to all employees. Similar to how a business is expected to treat their customers with respect and consideration, companies should share this attitude with their employees, partners, or anyone else they work with.David Strausser is the General Manager of the Northeast Region at Vision33, an award winning, certified Gold SAP Partner for small to midsized enterprise (SME) solutions. He works hand-in-hand with SMEs to understand their challenges and recommend solutions that help their businesses grow fast, run simple, and increase revenues. David is also the host of Shark Bite Biz, a podcast dedicated to helping small businesses pivot during the global coronavirus pandemic and achieve growth.David Strausser: https://www.vision33.comShark Bite Biz Youtube: Bite Biz Podcast: http://www.sharkbitebiz.comMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
20:03 11/23/20
E66 Tia Hopkins: Paint the Pipeline
Can you believe Thanksgiving is next week? It's going to be a bit hectic for all of us, but don't forget to tune in for next episodes of your favorite podcast! Tia would agree that it can be a challenge to find diverse talent in the cybersecurity space. She has noticed that the number of diverse candidates is typically limited. When Tia evaluates job applicants, her focus is on what an individual can do, is capable of learning, and what they are passionate about more so than the letters that come after their name. She believes that the apprenticeship model will work in the cyber security field because learning by doing is an effective way to learn how to apply theoretical knowledge in real life situations. An apprenticeship can go a long way in driving a candidates confidence and helping them understand what concepts are important to learn. To retain diverse staff, specifically in technical roles, it is important to keep employees aware of their contributions to the organization. People are also looking to be challenged and get feedback on their performance. Furthermore companies need to have policies in place to make  individuals with diverse backgrounds feel welcomed and supported in the workplace. Tia Hopkins is the VP of Global Solutions Engineering at eSentire and an Adjunct Professor in Cybersecurity at Yeshiva University. She founded Empow(H)er Cybersecurity, an inclusive organization focused on diversifying the cybersecurity talent pipeline by empowering, mentoring, educating, and providing career guidance and opportunities for women of color. Tia is a technology sales engineering leader with a strong technical background and proven track record for implementing and supporting a wide range of technology solutions. She is especially interested in cybersecurity as it relates to the human factor and how basic human nature largely contributes to the success of social engineering.Tia Hopkins: https://www.esentire.comEmpow(h)er Cybersecurity: More episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
11:46 11/20/20
E65 Christine Rogers: Be A Sponsor
Happy Wednesday everyone, enjoy this mid week edition of SnackWalls!As someone who has been working in the technology industry for the last eight years, Christine agrees that it's difficult to find diversity in most tech companies. As challenging as it may be, she believes that this issue can be overcome. Christine has observed that ability for people to learn and be tenacious when preparing for a new career. When it comes to hiring people, it’s more important to look for capability and aptitude than for a degree. She agrees that the apprenticeship model works in so many roles there is no reason it wouldn't work in tech. Similarly, in sales it's called “ear hustling” when a trainee sits next to a seasoned person to listen and watch. Many tools and resources can be picked up just by watching a master work. In regards to retaining diverse staff, it is important to understand what people are looking to learn, how they are motivated, and where they want to go. Organizations should set up a mentorship and/or sponsorship program to help amplify and push forward employees.Christine Rogers is a seasoned sales and marketing leader with over 15 years of recruiting, hiring, training, and managing high-performing sales teams. Her extensive background is complemented by individual experience owning a small business, giving a unique perspective to managing and growing organizations of any size. She is the Founder and COO of Aspireship, a career development and hiring platform for the SaaS industry.Christine Rogers: More episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
10:17 11/18/20
E64 Anthony White: Bi-Directional Culture
Finding your groove on Monday can be difficult. Fortunately we have a multi-talented and very interesting guest on today’s episode to get your mind flowing. When Anthony hears tech leaders say there is not enough diverse talent in the market, his mind begins to scope this as a supply chain problem. If there is truly a shortage of diverse talent, then companies should be willing to pay higher salaries to attract the limited supply. Another  possible solution is that the talent exists, but the implemented recruiting strategies are not making an effort to attract and find a diverse pool of candidates. He loves the idea of dropping the CS degree requirement for tech roles. If a position requires CS fundamentals, then it's fine to keep this requirement, however its time that companies reevaluate the role of traditional education compared to what skills they are looking for in a candidate. Anthony believes that the apprenticeship model provides the right methodology to reduce inequality among the population if applied correctly. In order to retain diverse talent, he thinks that companies need to establish a bi-directional culture where the culture should act on the people as much as the people act on the culture. Being professional at work shouldn't mean that employees need to change who they are to be accepted. Anthony White is a writer, a business and operations strategist with a focus on diversity, equity and inclusion, and an artist. Utilizing his operations experience within investment banking and technology industries along with his aptitudes as a writer, artist, and community organizer, he creates inclusive corporate cultures, provides solutions to manifold managerial challenges and brings bold visions into reality. Anthony White: Black Sublime: https://www.theblacksublime.comMedium Account: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
20:10 11/16/20
E63 Katie McLaughlin: The Show Must Go On
TGIF, lets wrap up this week with another great episode! Katie believes that diversity in a workplace is usually the product of where a company actively recruits. Tech companies rely heavily on referrals for new hires. Since most human beings tend to surround themselves with people that look like them, this method will not be effective at establishing a diverse workforce. One way to open up the field to people of different backgrounds would be to remove the CS degree requirements for engineering roles. Companies need to recruit creative talent that is willing to think outside of the box, and this person may not necessarily come from a standard degree path. In Katie’s view, the apprenticeship pattern would definitely work in the tech space because the way people learn the most about a job is on the job. People also learn a great deal by failure, and as an apprentice they will experience real world situations, make mistakes but also have a mentor for guidance and growth. In regards to retaining diverse employees, Katie’s experience has found whether or not people stay at a company is usually a really big product of the company culture and the day-to-day interactions. If someone doesn’t feel included in their organization, they will eventually leave. Katie McLaughlin is the Founder, Chief Strategist & Transformation Artist at McLaughlin Method LLC. She specializes in helping tech, startups, founders, and executives to build an inclusive workplace and engage their employees. She believes that businesses with healthier workplaces can be more productive and achieve the results they set out to in the first place: transform the world of their customers. Katie McLaughlin: Method: https://mclaughlinmethod.comMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
11:34 11/13/20
E62 Kim Crowder: Bridges or Barriers
Happy hump day! This show is soooo good, it's sure to hold you off till the next episode on Friday. Enjoy!Kim believes that the tech world as a whole needs to reflect on issues with diversity in the workplace. The industry needs to identify common recruiting practices that contribute to the problem. If they own the problem, then they can begin to address solutions. There likely won't be a quick and easy fix, but as a group an innovative solution can be found. In regards to dropping the CS degree requirement for tech roles, Kim says that companies should evaluate whether this is a barrier or bridge to the organization. If it is a barrier, how do you get rid of it and build a bridge that helps you find the talented people you seek. She thinks the apprenticeship model can help the tech industry find diverse talent, but it will only work if they provide access to people from backgrounds who may not otherwise have an opportunity to work in this space. You need people of privilege to use their privilege in order to move people forward. If you are looking for a way to retain diverse talent Kim says you have to make sure that people feel psychologically safe to be their full selves within your organization. Employees want to be seen as a human person and want their skills utilized in an equitable way across the board.Kim Crowder is the founder and CEO of Kim Crowder Consulting. She helps organizations embed diversity, equity, inclusion, and anti-racism into their workplace DNA. She has been named by Forbes as an anti-racist educator your company needs now. Kim’s been featured on Hubspot's The Growth Show, been featured in The New York Times and has worked with leaders from Fortune 100 companies. She is a powerhouse keynote speaker and a vivacious vocalist.Kim Crowder: Crowder Consulting: https://www.kimcrowderconsulting.comKim’s Instagram:’s Twitter: by Nathalie Molina Niño: http://leapfroghacks.comMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
28:58 11/11/20
E61 Stephanie Andrews: Step Out Of Your Circle
We took a couple of days off last week, but have no fear because we're back with another great episode!Stephanie believes that during this COVID season, it is easy for us to get stuck in our own circles. When you only communicate or network with people in your circle you wont be exposing yourself to new experiences or different perspectives. Similarly, companies that have trouble recruiting diverse talent need to connect with different people and groups outside of their typical network. Stephanie is in favor of dropping the CS degree requirement for tech roles because companies should hire people based on their experience and skills, not necessarily a degree. She always tells people that her degree is her paper degree and her real degree was building her business. She believes that the apprenticeship model would work in tech because it builds experience by working and learning directly from experts in real world situations. Stephanie recognizes that attracting talent is only part of the battle, retaining employees is equally important. She has found that people are happier and stay at workplaces where they feel like they belong and are part of a community. At the end of the day talent is more than just talent, they're people.While attending Ryerson University back in 2014, Steph founded Origins Magazine, a platform that shared the raw realities of entrepreneurial journeys. In 2016, Steph joined Chatter Research as their Marketing Lead, directly assisting with landing major client accounts such as Fanatics Clothing, Purdy’s Chocolatiers, Modell’s Sporting Goods and more. In 2018, Steph saw the need for audio-first content and fell in love with podcasting as a way for brands to conveniently build strong relationships with their customer base. At that time, she pivoted Origins Magazine to Origins Media Haus, a boutique podcast and video agency focused on helping brands create engaging audio experiences and took the leap into full time entrepreneurship as CEO. After Origins Media Haus was acquired by Quill in 2020, Steph has continued on their team as Head of Production. Success to Steph is continuously finding the edge between growth and ease. Stephanie Andrews: Inc.: http://www.quillit.ioStephanie’s Instagram:’s Twitter: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
12:02 11/9/20
E60 Manuel Martinez-Herrera: Diversity Initiatives Done Right
Woah...the big 6-0! As always we have another great show lined up for you all. Enjoy!Manuel agrees that finding diverse talent in tech is a challenge, but it is one that companies must take full front and approach using different strategies. He agrees that dropping a CS degree requirement for software roles makes a lot of sense. At the end of the day companies need engineers that can get the job done. How or where they learned the skills necessary to do the job should not be that important. Manuel also believes that the apprenticeship pattern could work in the tech space as a way to break barriers into the industry. To retain diverse staff, he thinks that the workplace should foster a sense of community. Make a clear statement that the executive/leadership team supports and is involved in programs that promote inclusion. Then encourage grassroots teams or ERGs that are created organically to further build employee relationships.Manuel Martinez-Herrera is the General Counsel at BetterCloud, a B2B SAS company that specializes in SAS Ops. He has experience working in the legal departments of both tech and non-tech companies. Manuel is passionate about being involved in workplace diversity programs. He is leading a diversity council at BetterCloud and was involved with diversity initiatives at his previous employer, Namely. Manuel Martinez-Herrera: https://www.bettercloud.comAltitude Conference: https://altitude.bettercloud.comMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
13:40 11/4/20
E59 Jonaed Iqbal: People Crave Community
Overwhelmed by election day anxiety? Put your phone down, turn off the TV, and listen to this brand new episode of SnackWalls.Jonaed highlights if employers want to find diverse talent, they need to seek candidates in different ways. Currently, many employers look for talent through referrals. However most young diverse talent do not have an established network to connect with companies. Additionally, companies will often vet out candidates based on degree requirements instead of focusing on someone's skill set. Jonaed is not against degrees, but he does oppose having setting requirements that prevent good, skilled people from getting into jobs. He believes that companies should invest in developing talent using the apprenticeship or a mentoring program. Most large organizations invest heavily in developing their talent and the pay off is visible in the long term (ex. Google). Now, to retain diverse talent Jonaed advises companies to have a diverse and welcoming culture. People crave community, and if your employees don't feel like they belong in the team, they will find another company.Jonaed Iqbal is the founder and CEO of and the host of the NoDegree podcast. They aspire to reduce the growing economic disparity between non-college grads and college grads by providing career resources to people without degrees. The NoDegree podcast is used to interview successful people without college degrees to figure what made them successful. Jonaed is also an Assistant Wrestling Coach at Thomas A. Edison High School and formerly served as the President of the Columbia University Toastmasters.Jonaed Iqbal: https://www.nodegree.comNo Degree Podcast: https://nodegree.fmMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
19:21 11/3/20
E58 Olin Hyde: Most Valuable Stepping Stone
Did you finish a whole bag of halloween candy this weekend? Well then you've come to the right place, cause today’s episode is sugar free and I promise it won't make you crash! EnjoyOlin has found that finding top talent is tough and finding diverse top talent is more challenging. From his perspective the best performing teams have intrinsic and extrinsic diversity. Olin agrees that the CS degree requirement for software jobs should be removed. At LeadCrunch there is no CS degree requirement and the hiring process is geared towards a candidate’s performance more than their resume. Candidates applying for software roles are given an initial code test and the company will strip names from resumes to remove any bias towards a name in the hiring process. Studies show that about 70% of job performance are things that are not on the resume like cognitive behavioral traits, grit, determination and the ability to work within a team. These are far more important and cannot be picked up off of a resume. While Olin believes that apprenticeships have a place in the tech world, they are not a solution in and of themselves to finding top talent. This model works when applied with lots of guard rails, but does not replace the initial groundwork an apprentice would need to establish before the program to be successful. To retain your top performing and diverse staff, Olin recommends you make the workplace a place that can be the most valuable stepping stone in an employee’s career.Olin Hyde is a venture-backed serial entrepreneur passionate about growing companies, building teams, and solving hard problems. He is the founder and CEO of LeadCrunch, a global AI B2B marketing company. Their AI makes sense of the complex, incomplete, and often inaccurate data about millions of companies to enable unprecedented capabilities to target and engage the ideal audiences for B2B marketers. Olin has been nominated and won various awards for his work including the Nvidia & GigOM Global A.I. Challenge.Olin Hyde: https://leadcrunch.comMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
15:17 11/2/20
E57 Gary Ware: Peeling Back The Layers
Today we sit down Gary Ware, a corporate facilitator and keynote speaker who uses the power of play to transform lives! He has been recommended by previous guests and for good reason, so sit down, listen up, and enjoy.Gary acknowledges that finding diverse talent requires extra effort. Companies that struggle to find diverse candidates need to peel back the layers on their recruitment efforts to find the problem. Are they looking for talent in schools that promote diversity? Perhaps your company needs to support efforts in the local community to help young people of color get exposure to the tech industry. Gary supports the push to remove CS degree requirements from software engineering roles because many of the necessary skills for the trade can be self taught or learned through mentorship. An apprenticeship is a great way to identify people who have the hunger and drive to learn. This model works because it teaches the apprentice the technical skills needed to get the job done and it also allows them to learn the grit and adaptive skills that cannot be taught in a classroom. In regards to retaining talent, Gary recommends that a company set metrics on their culture by referencing Primed To Perform a book by Lindsay McGregor and Neel Doshi. Additionally, he believes that the workplace should be one where employees feel like they want to be at work, their needs are heard, and their leadership cares about them.Gary Ware, the Founder of Breakthrough Play is a sought-after Corporate Facilitator and Keynote Speaker with nearly a decade of experience as performer in improv theatre. He assists teams with unlocking creativity, confidence, and sparks collaboration with experiential methods proven to drive peak performance. Gary became obsessed on learning how to use play as a transformational tool and as a result, happily transitioned from marketing to pursue facilitation full time.Gary Ware: Through Play: www.breakthroughplay.comTwitter Account: Account: Page: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
21:31 10/30/20
E56 Vinita Ananth: Be A Visible Advocate
Get ready to sit down with Vinita Ananth, a successful Group PM Manager within the Azure group at Microsoft. She talks about her experience transitioning into the tech space and shares some of the initiatives taking place at Microsoft to recruit and retain diverse talent.Vinita recognizes the pool of strong diverse candidates is smaller than traditional pools, however, the talent does exist if you seek it out. She points out how Microsoft has started making job descriptions more inclusive by removing genderized language and promoting job postings at forums or events that attract diverse talent. Vinita is supportive of the push to remove CS degree requirements from software roles since industry needs are different than what is taught at universities. She earned her degree in Electrical Engineering but was able to learn programming concepts using her technical background and problem-solving skills. She volunteers to teach in a young entrepreneurial program and is amazed at how quickly high school students pick up new concepts. Similarly, she believes apprenticeship programs would be successful in the tech sector, especially when working with people that are already grounded in science and technology. In regards to retaining diverse talent, Vinita would advise companies to make the workplace more inclusive and build a sense of belonging for diverse talent. She highlights how Microsoft has adapted during the pandemic to help their employees. Additionally, Vinita encourages anyone who is supportive of a diverse workplace to become a visible advocate for DnI.Vinita Ananth is an entrepreneur, and an accomplished leader in a spectrum of areas from global technology, technology-enabled business services, enterprise cloud, social media to analytics - with 20+ years of rich worldwide experience of living / working across the US, EMEA, and APAC. She is currently the leader of SAP, High-Performance Computing(HPC), Legacy(Mainframe, AiX, Legacy), and Azure VMware Solution(AVS) Customer Engineering at Microsoft Azure. Vinita holds a Bachelor’s in Electrical Engineering from India, and an MBA in Marketing & Finance from Santa Clara University, California. In her personal time, she loves hiking, playing tennis; outside of work, the focus is her family. Vinita Ananth: Azure: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
20:23 10/29/20
E55 Jonathan Swindell: Boost of Culture
In today’s episode we meet Jonathan Swindell, the CEO of HBCU Hub. He began developing this app as an undergrad at Grambling State University and now works full time using his talents to connect high school students with their ideal HBCU. We learn from his perspective as a business owner in the tech industry.Jonathan highlights how diverse hires bring a boost of culture to their organizations because they come from different backgrounds and have different insights. Finding this talent is not difficult if you look in the right places. He doesn't believe that a CS degree should be required for software engineering jobs because coding can be self taught. History has shown countless examples of people (ex. Bill Gates or Steve Jobs) that built successful tech conglomerates without a degree. Jonathan points out that the tech industry requires a lot of trial and error and you often don't know what you don't know. For this reason the apprenticeship model would work well in this space, because it allows the apprentice to work alongside an experienced mentor and provides a safe environment to fail. In regards to retaining employees, Jonathan advises companies to establish an environment that induces creativity and reminds employees that their decisions within the problem solving process is appreciated. Organizations that are open to challenge the status quo are the ones that progress forward.Jonathan Swindell is the CEO of HBCU Hub, an organization dedicated to help high school students apply, prepare, and get accepted by their dream HBCU. He is an experienced Application Developer with a demonstrated history of working in the information technology and services industry. Skilled in Research, SQL, Sales, Project Management, and Innovative Problem Solving . Jonathan earned a Bachelor’s Degree focused in Computer Technology/Computer Systems Technology from Grambling State University.Jonathan Swindell: Hub App (apple): Hub App (android): Hub website: www.hbcuhub.usHBCU Hub Instagram: Hub Twitter: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
12:36 10/28/20
E54 Lisa Bowman: Marchitect
In this episode, we sit down with Marchitect, Lisa Bowman. For those who don't know, a Marchitect is one who designs, builds, and supervises the construction of marketing programs. She shares her perspective coming from the marketing world.Lisa doesn't believe there is a shortage of diverse talent, companies just need to get creative in how they attract that talent. She also thinks that sometimes the practical experience can outweigh formal education. When hiring employees, it's a matter of finding the best candidate for the job with the right cultural fit and the right practical experience. Lisa understands that sometimes your younger self doesn't necessarily know what you want to be when you grow up. That is why the apprenticeship model is a great way to try something, determine if it's a good fit, and gain practical experience. She compares an apprenticeship to a cruise, where you can travel to different places and do a relatively short visit before you decide to plan a full vacation. Her number one rule to retaining employees is understanding that not everybody wants to be treated the same. Everybody should be treated appropriately based on what motivates them and what their background is. Managers should have emotional intelligence towards their employees and understand what is going on in that employee’s world.Lisa Bowman is the Chief Mojo Officer at Marketing-Mojo, an organization grounded in the belief that there is a space where Purpose and Profit not only peacefully co-exist, but also play well in the sandbox together. Previously she has worked as Executive Vice President/ Chief Marketing Officer for United Way Worldwide and served 15 years in Senior Level roles with UPS and The UPS Foundation. Her superpower is using inventive thinking and applying unique brand extensions that result in an optimized customer experience, enhanced brand reputation, and the generation of growth opportunities. Outside of crushing it in the office, she is also a certified Turbo Kick instructor.Lisa Bowman: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
20:12 10/27/20
E53 Marie Roker-Jones: Coding For Equality
In this episode we sit down with Marie Roker-Jones, Co-CEO of Essteem. Her company routinely hosts equalithons (think hackathon for equality) and you can checkout the links below to find events, sign up, or learn more.Marie believes companies who struggle to find diverse talent have a sourcing and network problem. Recruiters need to expand their network using LinkedIn and connect with HBCUs, bootcamps, or other organizations that promote diversity. Companies should also drop the CS degree requirement for software roles, because you can't tell much about someone solely based on their education or resume. That's why Marie is passionate about organizing hackathons, as it lets employers get a real look at what a person can bring to their team. When implemented correctly an apprenticeship is also a great way to onboard and ramp up employees into a new organization. Marie shares that employers lose 16 billion dollars a year because of diverse talent turnover! The key to retaining these employees is building a culture of belonging where people feel like what they bring to the team matters, it's valuable, and that they're respected.Marie Roker-Jones is Co-Founder and Co-CEO of Essteem, a company that organizes social impact driven hackathons as a way for employers to recruit, hire, and retain women and people of color in tech. She is also a Diversity and Inclusion Consultant helping startups and tech companies establish best practices for DE&I hiring and retention. Marie is committed to supporting tech companies that want to create impactful, psychologically safe and trusted work cultures of inclusion and belonging. Marie Roker-Jones: www.essteem.comEqualithon: www.equalithon.ioMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
12:33 10/26/20
E52 Shivangi Vyas: Breaking National Barriers
I hope you have a long distance calling card ready, because in this episode we speak with Shivangi Vyas in Toronto, Canada. As a native of India, Shivangi shares her perspective as a professional working in a foreign country. Companies who struggle to find diverse talent often tend to follow internal processes that are geared towards finding the right cultural fit as opposed to the right diverse fit. Shivangi thinks that a CS degree should not be necessary for software roles, because she has met many people who are self taught, working in tech firms and are doing great. Additionally, technologies change and evolve more frequently than a university’s curriculum can keep up. The apprenticeship model is a great fit for the tech industry because what you learn at an organization is really different from what is taught in school. This model will be beneficial to attract talent who is self taught or looking to move into tech from a different industry. Shivangi has found that inclusivity programs can really go a long way to retain diverse staff. At her company, they have workshops where employees of different backgrounds talk about their struggles, upbringing, life challenges, and how they overcame adversity. She finds these programs make her feel more welcomed working for a company in a foreign country. Shivangi Vyas has over 5 years of experience across legal tech, SaaS, non-profit and financial services industry, She is currently working as a Marketing Coordinator at LexisNexis, a leading legal technology firm. Shivangi is extremely passionate about bringing stories to life by converging marketing and data analysis. She has a proven track record of delivering successful marketing initiatives, in alignment with cross-functional departments that meet revenue goals.Shivangi Vyas: US: www.lexisnexis.comLexusNexus Canada: www.lexisnexis.caShivangi’s Twitter: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
15:35 10/23/20
E51 Marie Smith: The First Inch In A Mile
On today’s show, we interviewed the wonderful Marie Smith. As the Co-Founder of Data360, she shares the wisdom she has learned while starting up and running a business.The reason companies cannot find diverse talent is due to systemic and infrastructural issues. The potential to build out talent pipelines exist, but HR departments need systems and practices in place to create a diverse workforce. Marie holds a bachelors in Arts, but is a full blown engineer and believes that dropping the CS degree requirement for software roles is the first inch in a mile towards getting more diversity in the tech workforce. Marie has seen how successful the apprenticeship model can be. It really works because it creates both structure and intimacy for the candidates to be able to explore and not feel as vulnerable as they do in internships. Additionally apprentices have more job security than a temp or intern position and are taught how to earn a spot at their company. Once a company has recruited diverse talent, they can retain those employees by creating safe spaces that work for the whole organization. Companies must create processes or workflows to properly resolve tensions and issues arise. Marie Smith is Co-Founder and Chief Information Officer at Data 360, an organization dedicated to leading the development of AI and machine learning solutions for marketing, sales and human resources. She specializes in developing predictive KPIs, optimization of organizational, department and customer information systems, and architecting custom UML, BI, Hadoop, and mobile/social media platform systems.Marie Smith: 360 website: www.data360.solutionsData 360 LinkedIn: 360 Facebook: 360 Instagram: 360 Youtube: 360 Twitter: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
19:12 10/22/20
E50 Saveree Joshipura: Class of 2020
50 episodes deep and still going strong! In today's show we sit down with Saveree Joshipura, a recent UCSD grad that was part of the first undergraduate Data Science cohort. She provides some insightful perspective as someone new to the workforce.Saveree believes hiring talent right out of college can be difficult because the skills you learn in the classroom are not exactly the same as the skills you use in the workforce. Many colleges have an outdated curriculum, which can make it difficult for students who want to go right into the industry after graduating. While a CS degree is useful in any software role, she doesn't necessarily think you need it to function in an entry level role. It's possible to learn the tools and frameworks necessary to be successful on the job using various online resources. Saveree is currently working through an extended on boarding process to learn the technologies required for her upcoming role, much like an apprenticeship. She believes this model is more valuable than simply interviewing, because it gives organizations a better understanding of a candidate's full skill set and ability to learn new concepts. In regards to employee retention, Saveree believes that maintaining a diverse workforce will create a welcoming environment that will encourage diverse employees to stay.Saveree Joshipura is a Data Analytics & Engineering Associate at Cognizant. She was part of the first undergraduate Data Science cohort to graduate from UCSD (Class of 2020). As a student she gained hands-on experience working at the Linux Foundation, AlchemyX, and Applied Materials. Saveree is also a professional Indian singer and a talented pianist. Saveree Joshipura: Account: Account: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
15:13 10/21/20
E49 Isha Brown: Breaking Into The Tech Scene
Today’s guest is Isha Brown, a former designer and entrepreneur who is currently working towards her CS degree. She brings an interesting perspective as someone who is actively breaking into the tech scene.Isha can tell you first hand how her life experiences as an entrepreneur gave her the skills needed to transition into the world of tech. There are many talented diverse people who have transferable skills but are unaware of the tech roles that exist. Companies who struggle with diversity need to go find these people who are working in areas you wouldn’t traditionally find tech talent. In Isha’s opinion, someone who is dedicated, can follow a self-taught regimen, and be an active, engaged learner holds the same value and weight as someone with a CS degree. Additionally, apprenticeships could be the answer to some of the talent shortages we are facing. These programs allow people who are new to tech,  to prove they have the determination and talent to be equally, if not more successful than traditional candidates. Companies can improve employee retention by committing to diversity initiatives and building out internal infrastructure. For example creating effective employee resource groups and training existing staff to be welcoming and inclusive of new diverse hires.Isha Brown is working towards a degree in Computer Science and plans to start a career as a Program or Product manager. Aside from her studies she has interned for various industry leaders including NASA, Goldman Sachs, and Amazon. Prior to her career in tech, Isha was the owner and designer of Lovely by Isha, a successful  independent bridal fashion line.  Her experience in Sales and Entrepreneurship taught her invaluable skills including time management, creative problem solving, communication skills, and self-motivation.Isha Brown: Account: Account: Account: to Unlock: www.swipetounlock.comMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
11:13 10/20/20
E48 Siobhán K Cronin: Getting To The Table
Today we talk with Siobhán, an Engineering Manager at Landed. She shares her experiences in working for a series A start up and what helped her when getting started in software development.Siobhán advises small companies to be proactive and build intentional community connections during times when they are not hiring. This way once a position is open, they will have a pipeline to tap into with a range of diverse candidates. She believes that there needs to be a conversation to reexamine all the pathways to get started in a tech role. Opinions will vary on the value of a CS degree and perhaps some retooling of what goes into these programs is necessary. Siobhán shared how she worked alongside her husband when she was getting started in software development and is very excited to see the apprenticeship model being used in industry. Organizations benefit from having an apprentice program as it builds a talent pipeline right into their team and provides senior engineers a  way to cultivate the practice of mentorship. One way to retain diverse staff is to build a culture of inclusion where employees don't feel like they have to code switch to be accepted. Organizations talk a lot about getting folks to the table but what are you asking them to become to get to that table?Siobhán is an engineering leader with a passion for platform engineering, machine learning, and nurturing strong communities of practice. She began her career studying how humans learn at Harvard University & Harvard Medical School, spent several years researching embodied cognition, and now helps teams of computers and humans collaborate to solve problems that matter. She is an Engineering Manager at Landed, the lead developer for SwarmOpt (an open-source swarm intelligence library), a guest researcher at Slow Research Lab, and an engineering mentor at Hackbright Academy.Siobhán K Cronin: www.landed.comMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
13:57 10/19/20
E47 John Robert: Divergent Mindset
In today's episode we chat with John Robert the co-founder of 3rdCoast, a design and development agency. John shares his experiences and views on working with people of different mindsets. The term “neurodiversity” comes up, so if you don't know what it means, please google it or check out this wikipedia article.John believes he reached his current level of success because he is divergent from everyone else around him. He approaches problems from a humanity mindset instead of the traditional engineering ideas that most software engineers use. If companies are looking for talent from a university or other  traditional means, they will be doing themselves a disservice and overlooking many talented individuals. If you look in non traditional places (community centers, high schools, etc)  you will find people with a lot of grit and perseverance, that can bring a different perspective to your organization . Then once you find talented people, invest effort in molding them with the skills they need to thrive. Employers can retain their staff by building a culture of openness, transparency, and curiosity. This culture should make all employees feel comfortable regardless of orientation, color, background, or neurodiversity.John Roberts is a husband, curious polymath, consultant, and entrepreneur. He is co-founder of 3rdCoast, a digital strategy, design and development agency that helps companies build next generation applications. From native and web apps, to machine learning and blockchain, their skill is rooted in bridging industry expertise and technical know-how. John also serves as  the Head of Technology at Voltaire.AI.John Robert: www.voltaire.aiMore episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
17:44 10/16/20
E46 Mia Reyes: Jumping Into Opportunity
In today's episode we sat down with Mia Reyes, the Global Director of Government and Industry Marketing for Microsoft. She comes with a unique perspective as an industry outsider who was recruited into the world of tech.Mia would advise a company that cannot find diverse talent to think about how, what and where they are recruiting. She began working in the tech space when someone identified her talents and realized the benefits she could bring to the company. Many things that employers list as core competencies in tech are actually things that can be taught. Look for the individual qualities you need in an employee and teach the rest. Currently, the barriers to get into tech can feel insurmountable for industry outsiders. In Mia’s opinion, removing that requirement for a degree for certain software engineering roles would help companies find more diverse talent. In regards to apprenticeship programs she finds there's more value in doing real work over a longer period of time than there is in short term stints. Instead of dipping your toes into the water, an apprenticeship is like jumping right into an opportunity. In regards to employee retention, Mia believes it's all about trust. Employees can tell when a company is genuinely investing in diversity and inclusion programs and when they are just paying lip service. For inclusion programs to be successful they have to be driven, promoted, and incentivized from the highest levels of the company. Mia Reyes leads Microsoft's global/worldwide industry marketing and go-to-market business planning and strategy for government. Formerly she was a Policy Director who specialized in digital and financial services policies, representing U.S. technology companies (Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Airbnb and more) and the U.S. private sector in the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC). She is an accomplished speaker who hosts Microsoft's podcast series Gov Pod, a podcast that discusses how governments are adopting Intelligent technologies. Mia holds a Masters in Public Administration (MPA) from the Evans School of Public Policy and Governance.Mia Reyes: Pod: Global Diversity and Inclusion: episodes of the SnackWalls Podcast: http://podcast.snackwalls.comSnackWalls is powered by San Diego Code School: https://sdcs.ioPlease share like and subscribe for more reach 🙌🏾
17:21 10/15/20