Asking tough questions about the science, technology, and politics of climate change, two climate researchers challenge leading experts on one of the defining issues of our age. Every two weeks, they explore how we can fight global warming by cutting greenhouse gas emissions, carbon removal, adaptation and solar geoengineering. Dr. Jesse Reynolds and Dr. Pete Irvine consider the roles of computer models and persuasive narratives, economics and public policy, and renewable energy and national security in the climate debate, and look beyond to issues such as biotechnology and international development.Support us at Patreon.Questions or comments? Email info@challengingclimate.org or tweet @ChalClimateSee more information on Jesse Reynolds and Pete Irvine.Subscribe for email updates.music by Peter Danilchuk @clambgramb (IG/Twitter).
Pete and Jesse must bring Challenging Climate to a close. Since starting the podcast almost three years ago, we have each taken on more professional responsibilities and no longer have the time for this volunteer effort. In this short recording, we describe what we are now up to:The Degrees InitiativeThe Degrees Global Forum on SRMSRM360Climate Reflections, the SRM360 podcast - coming soon to all major podcast platformsCo-CREATEWe also sincerely thank Gillian Cheong, our producer; our guests; our listeners, especially those who supported us via Patreon; and each other.Support the showSubscribe for email updates
11/24/24 • 08:27
Our guest is Maarten Albers, a journalist who reports on agriculture and food for the Volkskrant, one of the Netherlands’ leading newspapers. In today's episode, we draw our attention to the 'nitrogen crisis' in the Netherlands - a major environmental story that has reshaped politics in the Netherlands and societal views on environmental regulation, science and technology, and even international relations.Listen as we discuss why we should care about nitrogen in the environment, and what lessons we can draw from the nitrogen crisis happening in the Netherlands. Links:Maarten's articles on de VolkskrantInterview on the nitrogen crisis, with Jan Douwe van der Ploeg, emeritus professor of agricultural sociologyCheck out this article on 'An organic farmer can also be a peak polluter'Support the showSubscribe for email updates
8/12/24 • 44:03
Our guest is Gwynne Dyer, an author, columnist, broadcaster and lecturer on international affairs. In this episode, we discuss the key messages from his new book Intervention Earth: Life-Saving Ideas from the World’s Climate Engineers, based on extensive interviews with the world’s top climate scientists. We discuss his insights from these interviews on the state of our climate, and address controversies and concerns over carbon dioxide removal (CDR) and solar radiation management (SRM).Links:Gwynne Dyer’s profileCheck out his new book, Intervention Earth: Life-Saving IdeasCheck out this survey: World’s top climate scientists expect global heating to blast past 1.5C targetSupport the showSubscribe for email updates
7/2/24 • 46:39
Jonathan Blake is Associate Director at the Berggruen Institute, where he leads the Planetary Program. Nils Gilman is Senior Vice President at the Berggruen Institute and Deputy Editor of Noema magazine. In this episode, we discuss the ideas in their recently published book, Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of Crises. We grapple with ideas of sovereignty, planetary governance and subsidiarity.Links:Jonathan Blake’s profileNils Gilman’s profileCheck out their book, Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of CrisesSupport the showSubscribe for email updates
5/28/24 • 51:07
Today’s guest is Dr. Shuchi Talati, a climate technology and governance expert and the founder of The Alliance for Just Deliberation on Solar Geoengineering. In this episode, we discuss ethics and governance of solar geoengineering, the formal cancellation of Harvard’s SCoPEx experiment, and the UN Environment Assembly deliberations on Solar Radiation Modification.Links:Shuchi Talati’s profileThe Alliance for Just Deliberation on Solar GeoengineeringCheck out this paper, Who Are the Engineers? Solar Geoengineering Research and JusticeSupport the showSubscribe for email updates
4/30/24 • 51:31
Today’s guest is Ulrike Lohmann, Professor of Experimental Atmospheric Physics in the Institute for Atmospheric and Climate Science at ETH Zurich. Lohmann is also the Principal Investigator of the CLOUDLAB project, a multi-year project to investigate aerosol-cloud interactions in wintertime stratus clouds over the Alps. In this episode, we discuss the role of clouds and aerosols in our climate. We dive deep into aerosol-cloud interactions to uncover the science behind solar radiation modification (SRM) techniques like marine cloud brightening, and discuss a novel proposed SRM technique - Mixed Phase Cloud Thinning.Links:Ulrike Lohmann’s profileCheck out the CLOUDLAB projectSupport the showSubscribe for email updates
4/2/24 • 45:20
In this episode, we speak with Dr. Benjamin Sovacool and Dr. Chad Baum, about their newly published, high-impact paper, “Public Perceptions and Support of Climate Intervention Technologies across the Global North and Global South”. Join us as we discuss the key findings of their work, and how these findings can and should influence policy and governance methods.Dr. Benjamin Sovacool is a professor with affiliations at Aarhus University, the University of Sussex and Boston University. Dr. Chad Baum is Assistant Professor at the Department of Business Development and Technology of Aarhus University.Links:Ben Sovacool’s profileChad Baum’s profileThe GENIE projectTheir Nature paper, Public Perceptions and Support of Climate Intervention Technologies across the Global North and Global South and accessible summaryCheck out their paper on sentiments and emotions of climate tech on Twitter And another one on field testing radical climate interventions, And another one on co-impactsAlso check out our related episode with Luke Iseman on Make SunsetsSupport the showSubscribe for email updates
3/7/24 • 53:54
George Monbiot is a renowned British author, The Guardian Columnist and environmental activist. George is the author of more than a dozen books, the most recent of which is Regenesis: Feeding the World without Devouring the Planet, and he was awarded the Orwell Prize for Journalism in 2022. In this episode, we discuss topics of his insightful and provocative articles such as de-throning GDP, radical climate activism, the ‘wealth curse’ and contentious technologies such as nuclear energy, GMO and SRM.Links:George Monbiot's profileMonbiot's article, The Cruel Fantasies of Well-Fed PeopleMonbiot's most recent book, RegenesisRelated articles by Monbiot:On the extreme wealthy, Here’s a question Cop28 won’t address: why are billionaires blocking action to save the planet?On climate and politics, The hard right and climate catastrophe are intimately linked. This is howOn UK climate politicsOn radical climate activism (and another one)Support the showSubscribe for email updates
3/5/24 • 48:28
This episode’s guest is Janos Pasztor. He has four decades of work experience in the areas of energy, environment, climate change, and sustainable development, including roles as Executive Director of the Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative (C2G) and UN Assistant Secretary-General for Climate Change. In this episode, we explore the political lens of carbon dioxide removal (CDR) and solar radiation management (SRM), discussing the progress of CDR and SRM discourse, as well as its challenges and controversies.CORRECTION: Jesse suggested that the United Nations Environment Assembly (UNEA) had a dozen or so members, but Janos pointed out that in fact it has universal membership, i.e., every UN member state is a member.Links:Janos Pasztor’s profileCarnegie Climate Governance InitiativeJanos’ article on the role of UN Secretary-General in Climate Change, in Global Policy 2016 Support the showSubscribe for email updates
2/6/24 • 51:04
David Stainforth is a Professorial Research Fellow at the London School of Economics. David has had a long career studying the climate problem and the challenges of making predictions of future climate change. His research spans the philosophy of climate science, climate economics, climate modelling, and decision-making under deep uncertainty.In this episode, we discuss David’s new book ‘Predicting our climate future’, exploring the challenges of making predictions about future climate change, and navigating this uncertainty to address climate problems.Links:David Stainforth’s profileDavid’s book, Predicting our climate futureSupport the showSubscribe for email updates
1/9/24 • 42:14
David Keith is a Professor in the Department of Geophysical Sciences at the University of Chicago and the Founding Faculty Director of the Climate Systems Engineering initiative. Keith previously led the development of Harvard’s Solar Geoengineering Research Program.In this episode, we discuss Keith’s Climate Systems Engineering initiatives, carbon dioxide removal (CDR) and geoengineering techniques. Drawing on David’s decades of expertise, we dive deep into topics such as CDR, solar geoengineering, ice sheet geoengineering.Links:David Keith’s profile (& old profile)The Climate Systems Engineering initiativeSupport the showSubscribe for email updates
12/12/23 • 43:01
Jennifer Allan is a Strategic Adviser and Team Leader with Earth Negotiations Bulletin, and Lecturer at Cardiff University. Jen has attended roughly 40 UN conferences where states negotiate the rules of global climate governance. Her work explores how global rules are made and remade, and currently focuses on the politics of ecosystem services and green recovery. In this episode, we discuss with Jen key agenda themes in the forthcoming COP28, the social inequality of climate change and whether COPs deliver useful outcomes - or is it just fanfare?Links:Jennifer Allan’s profileCOP28 Thematic ProgramIEA World Energy Outlook 2023 - Oil demand to peak by 2030 Support the showSubscribe for email updates
11/14/23 • 52:29
Today’s episode is brought to you in collaboration with our friends at the Energy vs Climate podcast. Energy vs Climate breaks down the trade-offs and hard truths of the energy transition in Alberta, Canada, and beyond with energy experts David Keith, Sara Hastings-Simon and Ed Whittingham. In this episode, they speak with Greg Nemet, a Professor at the University of Wisconsin–Madison’s La Follette School of Public Affairs. His research focuses on technological change in energy and the ways in which public policy can affect it. Listen as they discuss the trajectory of solar energy, coming down the cost curve and the energy supply chain.Links: Energy vs Climate PodcastGreg Nemet’s profile Check out Greg’s book, How Solar Energy Became Cheap Topic links: Nemet’s paper on Inter-technology knowledge spillovers for energy technologies (Timestamp: 07:43) Paper on Evaluating the causes of cost reduction in photovoltaic modules (Timestamp: 24:18) NREL Report on U.S. Solar Photovoltaic System and Energy Storage Cost Benchmark: Q1 2020 (Timestamp: 27:21) Originally published on The Energy vs Climate show on 24 Feb 2022.Support the showSubscribe for email updates
10/17/23 • 56:34
As we break for the summer, listen here for some highlights of our previous episodes and catch up on the ones you've missed. See you in October!Support the showSubscribe for email updates
6/27/23 • 08:52
Richard S.J. Tol is a Professor at the Department of Economics, University of Sussex and the Professor of the Economics of Climate Change, Institute for Environmental Studies and Department of Spatial Economics, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, the Netherlands. He is also the author of Climate Economics: Economic Analysis of Climate, Climate Change and Climate Policy. In this episode, Tol breaks down climate economics – the economic and social costs and benefits of carbon. We also discuss the case for geoengineering and his criticisms on IPCC. Links: Richard Tol’s profile Richard’s article, The Economic Impacts of Climate Change Support the showSubscribe for email updates
6/13/23 • 56:29
Emma Marris is an environmental writer and Institute Fellow at the UCLA Institute of the Environment and Sustainability. She has also written for National Geographic, the Atlantic, the New York Times, Wired, and other publications. In this episode, we dive into the concepts introduced in her book Rambunctious Garden: Saving Nature in a Post-Wild World, such as wilderness and nature purity. We discuss the relationship between nature and humans, from assisted migration to climate change, and how we can re-envision it. Links: Emma Marris’ profile Marris’ weekly articles on The Atlantic Check out her books, Wild Souls and Rambunctious Garden As recommended by Emma, The Lost Rainforests of Britain by Guy Shrubsole Support the showSubscribe for email updates
5/30/23 • 43:06
Dr John Moore is a Research Professor at University of Lapland, Finland and Chief Scientist of GCESS at Beijing Normal University. His research focuses on geoengineering, sea level change, and ice sheet dynamics. In this episode, we take a deep dive into the cryosphere – the state and future of glaciers, sea ice and permafrost, as well as consider marine glacier geoengineering. John also shares his unique experience as a leader of a major geoengineering research program in China. Links: John Moore’s profile His paper on several cryosphere interventions His call for marine glacier geoengineering His latest study on the ocean curtain idea Support the showSubscribe for email updates
5/16/23 • 50:55
Dr Steve Smith is the Executive Director of CO2RE, as well as Executive Director of the Oxford Net Zero initiative, based at the University of Oxford’s Smith School of Enterprise and the Environment. He also previously co-led the Climate Science Team at the UK Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. In this episode, we take a holistic deep dive into Carbon Dioxide Removal (CDR) and discuss his expertise on net zero pledges, the political and economic strategies for CDR, and technology readiness. Links: Steve’s Smith School profile and CO2RE profile The Net Zero Tracker project - supported by students!The State of Carbon Dioxide Removal reportSupport the showSubscribe for email updates
5/2/23 • 62:17
Dr Heleen de Coninck is a Professor of Socio-Technical Innovation and Climate Change at Eindhoven University of Technology, and Associate Professor in Innovation Studies and Sustainability at Radboud University. She is also the newly appointed deputy chair of the Dutch Scientific Climate Council. In this episode, we discuss the four Net Zero transitions set out in the 2018 IPCC 1.5ºC report, and specifically how to facilitate a just transition. Towards the end, we debate on how much focus on geoengineering technologies is healthy. Links: Heleen's profile Lecture transcript: system change, not climate change IPCC Special Report on "Carbon Dioxide Capture and Storage” IPCC Special Report on “Global Warming of 1.5 ºC” Support the showSubscribe for email updates
4/18/23 • 43:46
Dr David Fahey is the Director of the Chemical Sciences Laboratory in the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), and he also serves as a Co-Chair of its the Montreal Protocol’s Scientific Assessment Panel, which produces the quadrennial assessments of stratospheric ozone depletion. In this episode, we discuss flying planes into the stratosphere to conduct experiments on ozone depletion, the success of the Montreal Protocol, and solar radiation modification (SRM) - potential impacts, future for research and deployment regulation.Links:David Fahey ’s profile David's work with the NASA Airborne Science Program, Including this paper based on the 1987 Airborne Antarctic Ozone Experiment over the AntarcticMontreal Protocol Scientific Assessment PanelThe 2022 Quadrennial report and Executive SummaryOne Atmosphere, the UNEP review on SRM research and deploymentEpisode chapter markers Support the showSubscribe for email updates
4/4/23 • 52:36
Chris Stark is the Chief Executive of the UK‘s Climate Change Committee. Previously, he worked as the Director of Energy and Climate Change in the Scottish Government. In this episode, Chris breaks down the role of the CCC in UK’s climate policy. We then take a close look at how UK has done so far in cutting emissions, what else needs to be done, and the challenges that lie ahead. We end off with a discussion of where geoengineering techniques like SAI sit on the UKCCC’s radar.Links: Chris Stark’s profile Episode chapter markers Support the showSubscribe for email updates
3/21/23 • 55:10
Ken Caldeira is a senior scientist at the Carnegie Institution for Science and is also a senior scientist at Breakthrough Energy. Ken has a wide-spectrum approach to analyzing the world’s climate systems - with particular interests in modeling the Earth system and the energy transition, and in using experiments and observation to study our changing coasts and coral reefs. In this episode, Ken takes us through his fascinating journey into environmental and climate science. We dive deep into navigating political influences on environmental research, the technical and social feasibility of the energy transition, and his views on wider underrepresented climate issues. Links: Ken Caldeira’s profile Ken’s Google Scholar profile Episode chapter markers Support the showSubscribe for email updates
3/7/23 • 49:27
Andrew Revkin is one of the world's leading science and environmental journalists, with over 30 years' experience thinking and writing about climate change and sustainability. He has written at The New York Times and ProPublica, and his current outlet is “Sustain What?” at Substack. He is also the founding director of the new Initiative on Communication and Sustainability at Columbia University's Earth Institute. In this episode, Revkin shares his remarkable journalistic experiences, such as reporting from the Arctic, and how media and the climate discussion have evolved throughout his career. Our discussion is dynamic and wide-ranging, from extreme weather, to narrative capture, to tackling questions posed in previous episodes like climate doomism and ‘Is 1.5ºC still alive?’ Links: Profile Revkin's Substack, 'Sustain What?' His 2003 Q&A from the Arctic sea iceHis dispatches from 2005 Montreal His blog 'Dot Earth' at NYT His 2016 Anthropocene article, An Anthropocene Journey Support the showSubscribe for email updates
2/21/23 • 49:22
Dr Daniel Harrison is an oceanographer at Southern Cross University in Australia. His research focuses on how engineering intervention in marine systems can be used to improve ecological, environmental, or societal outcomes. In this episode, we explore Daniel’s work in applying Marine Cloud Brightening (MCB) to protect the Great Barrier Reef against global warming. We find out what MCB is, discuss how it can be implemented responsibly and effectively to save the Great Barrier Reef, and other potential applications. Links: Daniel's profile UNESCO: Great Barrier Reef is added to the 'In Danger' list Reef Restoration and Adaptation Program (RRAP) Daniel's talk on C2G Youtube, on Governance of Marine Cloud Brightening Daniel’s podcast interview on 100 climate conversations Support the showSubscribe for email updates
2/7/23 • 51:06
Dr Erica Thompson is a Senior Policy Fellow in Ethics of Modelling and Simulation at the LSE Data Science Institute. Erica's research involves the appropriate use of mathematical and computational modelling to inform real-world decision-making. In this episode, we discuss Erica’s recent book, Escape from Model Land and tackle issues such as bias, disillusioning science communication to help us get out of the ‘Model Land’ worldview and into the real world. Links: Erica Thompson’s profile Erica’s website Check out Erica’s book, Escape from Model Land Support the showSubscribe for email updates
1/24/23 • 48:21
Luke Iseman is the founder of Make Sunsets, a recently launched startup that is selling “cooling credits” on the promise that they will release sulphur dioxide into the stratosphere using weather balloons. In this episode, we discuss Make Sunset’s mission to “substantially lower global temperatures,” the details of their offering, the technical challenges for verifying their cooling credits, and the potential political repercussions of their effortsLinks: Make Sunsets official website: https://makesunsets.com/ Make Sunsets contested cooling calculations: https://makesunsets.com/blogs/news/calculating-cooling Luke’s blog post from just before he launched this effort, “Geoengineering Now”: https://www.dirtnail.com/2022/04/04/geoengineering-now/ Some reactions to Make Sunsets: Ted Parson’s essay on Make Sunsets, “A Dangerous Disruption”: https://legal-planet.org/2023/01/02/a-dangerous-disruption/ David Keith on why not to commercialize geoengineering: https://twitter.com/DKeithClimate/status/1608085360927457281 Gwynne Dyer’s comment in Stuff: https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/130909204/balloon-goes-up-on-geoengineering-sulfur-scam Another podcast interview with Luke Iseman by Reviewer 2 Does Geoengineering: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Fr15fdX20qyyfVX8VCF3Q Support the showSubscribe for email updates
1/10/23 • 60:38
Our year-end special celebrates the one-year anniversary of the Challenging Climate podcast. In this episode, Pete and Jesse reflect on the past 25 episodes, whether we achieved our vision for the podcast thus far, how we’ve navigated controversial guest speakers and learning to balance diversity of thought. Looking forward into 2023, we discuss new topics we want to explore, and old topics we hope to dive into at greater depths and different angles. Have any ideas for future topics or guest speakers? Drop us an email at info@challengingclimate.org Links:Check out our twitterPete Irvine's websiteJesse Reynold's websiteSustainability by numbers, a substack by Hannah RitchiePandora's Toolbox, by Wake SmithSupport the showSubscribe for email updates
12/27/22 • 39:26
Dr Patrick Brown is the Co-director of the Climate & Energy group at the Breakthrough Institute and Adjunct lecturer in Energy Policy & Climate at Johns Hopkins University. In this episode, we discuss Patrick’s expertise on the economic impacts of extreme weather, and unpack trends and attributable risk. We then venture into a broader scope based on his essay, ‘The obvious climate strategy nobody will talk about’, which carries the rest of the discussion into climate targets and bias in climate communication. Links: Patrick Brown’s profile Patrick’s essay in Foreign Policy: The obvious climate strategy nobody will talk about His paper in PLOS, 'Approximate calculations of the net economic impact of global warming mitigation targets...' Another article on heat deaths versus cold deaths Support the showSubscribe for email updates
12/13/22 • 48:54
Our guests are Dr Glen Peters, the research director for the Climate Mitigation group at Center for International Climate Research (CICERO), and Dr Linda Steg, Professor of Environmental Psychology at the University of Groningen. In light of the recent COP27 hosted in Sharm el Sheikh, we pose the question: is the 1.5 Celsius goal still alive? In this episode, we dissect this complex question from the model-driven approach of Peters’ research, as well as from the angle of societal and behavioural change — Steg’s expertise. Covering climate anxiety, venture capitalists and CDR, this episode’s got it all. Links: Glen’s profile Linda’s profile Interview with Laurence Tubiana on 1.5ºC overshootGlen's articles:'Can we really limit global warming to "well below" two degrees centigrade?'Linda's articles:'Limiting climate change requires research on climate action' 'Motivating Society-wide Pro-environmental Change''A Spiral on (in)action'Support the showSubscribe for email updates
11/29/22 • 45:25
Dr Luke Kemp is a Research Associate at the Centre for the Study of Existential Risk, University of Cambridge. He has a PhD in international relations from the ANU and previous experience as a senior economist at Vivid Economics. In this episode, Luke sheds light on a surprisingly understudied and overlooked topic – catastrophic climate risk. This episode explores catastrophic and extinction risk, why the topic is understudied, and how we can weigh out the catastrophic risks of climate change and solar geo-engineering. Links: Luke Kemp’s profile Check out Luke’s paper, Climate Endgame: Exploring catastrophic climate change scenariosLuke's paper on the risky perspective shift in temperature rises: Focus of the IPCC Assessment Reports has shifted to lower temperatures Cambridge release, Climate change: potential to end humanity is “dangerously underexplored” Additional reading: Catastrophic climate risks should be neither understated nor overstated (Burgess et al., 2022)Support the showSubscribe for email updates
11/15/22 • 45:12
