Show cover of The Leader Learner Podcast

The Leader Learner Podcast

The Leader Learner podcast is for passionate leaders who believe that continuing to learn and practice our people and connection skills is necessary to influence and lead others in the most effective way. This podcast is brought to you by Vincent Musolino, leadership trainer, coach, and consultant and founder of COAPTA, and Theresa Destrebecq, facilitator, coach and community kickstarter, and founder of Emerge Book Circles. Join us as we discuss books, learning, and leadership between ourselves and our guests. Learning. Leading. People. Passion. Business.


S02E01 The Do You Need A Break Episode
Check-In Question:Who is the most likeable person that you know?Big Ideas:Taking breaks - why we do it, why we don't, etcReal vacation, no work AND vacation, but thinking about workTaking a break means NOT thinking about workHaving some location separation between work and homeCan't compartmentalize work and personal life Is separating work and home life valid anymore? Communication between work and home so the pressure doesn't buildSetting permeable boundariesBreaks to process what just happened and what might happen nextCreating space to think deeplyDistinction between taking breaks and creating spaceBreaks having no purpose, spaces having purposeAre we taking breaks to be lost in thought?Do we need to give space for our brains to breathe?Finding likeable moments in the everydayTravail (work in French) comes from a word related to tortureCreate a life you don't need to take a break fromBill Gates and his "Think Week"How our mindset affects our experiencesMindset matters to a point, but if your basic needs aren't being met, it only matters up to a pointFreedom outside the pressures.Cultural components of taking breaksDrivers to what success looks shifts among culturesWhat's best for me at this moment?Creating breaks allow us to createCovid allowed people to see how creating new spaces was good for themHow shift away from the idea that taking breaks is a luxury?Accepting what is now, but not necessarily being content with it"The opposite of play is not work, it's depression."So much of what we do is purpose/results oriented, and breaks seem purposelessQuestion for Listeners:Why do you take breaks? How?References:Severance SeriesEssentialism by Greg McKeown
41:12 09/12/2022
Season Finale: How We Found Room for Improvement
Check-In Question:Do you  like working from home? How to create community in virtual spacesBig Ideas:What's our magic, our thing, our niche, etc? The importance of FUNTech issues we encountered - Theresa's slow connectionTypes of episodes: Quotes and Question, Guests, Shoot from the Hip, Coaching One Another - Listeners, what is your favorite episode type? Learning from other people's perspectivesModeling getting tough feedbackTitles engage people - "Click Bait"Being more strategic about marketingPeople interested in the content more than who we are as peopleUsing other people to challenge our thinkingElement of spontaneity and funStanding on other people's shoulders for visibilityDo you like the "The" and "Episode" bookmarking the episodes?Resources Mentioned:Rituals for Virtual Meetings by Glenn Fajardo and Kursat OzencFrom Physical Space to Virtual Space  by  Gwen Sterling-Wilkie
34:00 07/18/2022
S01E12 The How Do We Respond To Gifts Episode
Enjoy this spontaneous, unplanned conversation which turned into an episode :) BIG IDEAS:Relationship being more important than the giftDo gifts pollute or change the relationship?Polluting versus enhancing? What do we do with compliments?Genuine connections over the "connect and pitch"Link between connections and gifts to worthinessWhen we don't accept a gift, we rob someone of the joy in givingThe 5 Love Languages, - Touch, Service, Words of Appreciation, Gifts, Quality TimeThe gaps between how we like to give and receive loveAdapt love language to a work situationSupporting peer-to-peer displays of appreciationUnderstanding our love language based on what we like to giveReferrals from the heart, or referrals for a percentage?Transparency in making referrals"Send the elevator back"RESOURCES:The 5 Love Languages by Gary ChapmanTake the 5 Love Languages QuizWorkHuman 
26:07 07/04/2022
S01E11 The Is Money Dirty Episode
Check-In Question:What is money good for?Big Ideas:Two kinds of money --  those that fulfill our needs, and those that we think will fulfill our needs, but don't.Indigenous tribes that don't use money. Question of whether it is essential?"Money isn't the problem. Money isn't good or bad. Money itself doesn't have power or not have power. It is our interpretation of money, our interaction with it, where the real mischief is and where we find the real opportunity for self-discovery and personal discovery. The tool doesn't have power.When you have money, you can make different choices.Yes, you can have power without money. (ex Rosa Parks)Is causation, money then power, or power than money? Power on a spectrum in line with money.Choice as a sense of powerVoting with your feet Difference between local and global economics - buying local and the sense of community that comes with itWe have a role in how the money is distributed.Supporting the local economy and local employmentThe 3 Toxic Myths of Scarcity : #1 There is not enough, #2 More is better, #3 That's the Way it IsExperiencing companies wanting more (people, skills, objectives, etc.)Band-aids as the only support because 'That's Just the Way It is."The relationship between value and money. Does the price determine value?Value-based versus time-based pricingMatching your pricing to regional values and the marketValue can differ even if price is the same (too many external factors)Price has to be high enough to be taken seriouslyUsing internal resources to respond to a scarcity of external resourcesSupport becomes more apparent when times are scarceLook for new relationships/resources when times are scarceLimits and constraints create innovationWe often have resources within us, that we forget about because we often think of assets outside of ourselvesIf you don't have time, what do you have? Spending matching valuesMoney being like waterCharity being a redistribution mechanismIf money doesn't come to you, where will it go? Is this place "better"?Resources Discussed:The Soul of Money by Lynne TwistJerry Maquire movieStretch by Scott SonensheinTED talk by Lynne TwistThink Again by Adam Grant
44:56 06/20/2022
S01E10 The Hero On The Balcony Episode
Check-In Question:What do you think people regret the most when they look back on their life? Big Ideas:Different stages of life: the call, the messy middle, the resolutionLife being one long journey, with lots of small hero's journeys throughoutStage 1: Ordinary World; Stage 2: The Call to Adventure; Stage 3: Refusal of the Call; Stage 4: Meeting with a Mentor; Stage 5: Crossing the 1st Threshold; Stage 6: The Adventure (enemies, shadows, etc); Stage 7: The ElixirSaying no in my mind, and not feeling like I had a choice.When our ego says that we don't have a choiceWhen our mentors muddle the waters by giving us another perspective, which doesn't align with our values or intuitionWho is the 'right' person to ask? Going to the outside for advice because we don't trust ourselvesHaving a challenge network (band of pirates) to rattle us and keep us integrityUse criticism as a way to reinforce our valuesCan you refuse a call and be the same afterwards?Choices aren't always crossroads, but exits on a highway.Archetypes: The Hero, the Mentor, The Threshold Guardian, The Herald, The Shape-Shifter, The Shadow, The Ally, The Trickster -- all at the service of the hero. The journey is the hero's search for identity and wholenessWe can't always see the arc of our own hero's storiesOur blinders can prevent us from seeing the truth of our lifeImportance of getting perspective to see the stories we are inLook at your life as a story Sometimes we don't see when we need to go to the balcony to get perspectiveIs the shero/heroine journey different from the hero journey?Resources Mentioned:The Top 5 Regrets of the Dying by Bronnie WareThe Writer's Journey by Christopher VoglerThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellUntamed by Glennon DoyleThink Again by Adam GrantRoger Fisher and William Ury from the Harvard Negotiation Project
39:52 06/06/2022
S01E09 The Theresa Gets Bad Feedback Episode
Check-In Question:Do you think it's appropriate to cry at work, and when was the last time you cried at work? Big Ideas:Is appropriate the right word to refer to having emotions at work?Judgment behind the work appropriatePermission to have the full range of emotions, even at workHow criticism brings up a sense of threat, even if we don't consciously think of itThe importance of specific feedback, so we know what to do differently or more ofNegativity biasWhat makes feedback appropriate, useful, or adequate? Imposter syndromeKnowing what triggers us to get defensiveHow style interacts with purpose/vision, from a tactical perspectiveClarity up front about your styleTurning threats into opportunitiesMaking our methods/styles into a differentiating factors (USP)What are people's expectations before engaging in a learning space?Is the feedback touching the core of who I am, or is it more tactical? Looking at making abstract ideas more actionable"Our judgments are the tragic expressions of our unmet needs" ~Marshall RosenbergBias coming from expectationsRespecting and honoring other people's feedback and their stories, rather than explaining away or defending their perspectiveLetting some feedback float away in the distanceLooking at the needs behind people's feedbackHow are we prioritizing feedback? Is the feedback in line with our values? What feedback are we holding on to, and what are we letting go? References:No Hard Feelings by Liz Fosslien and Mollie West DuffyBig Feelings by Liz Fosslien and Mollie West DuffyBrené Brown's discussion of creating observable behaviors for abstract ideas in the book Dare to LeadMarshall Rosenberg and Non-Violent CommunicationAtlas of the Heart by Brené Brown
35:18 05/16/2022
S01E08 The Honor People's Voices Episode
Check-In Question:Would there be more or fewer people leaving their jobs (divorces)  if people could read each other's minds? Big Ideas:The importance of candor in organizationsHow we do candor mattersThe culture of candor matters - sometimes labeled a non-team player if point out mistakesSafety as it relates to communication styles - direct/indirectOur own relationship to threat and how it relates to psychological safetyTwo people can be on the same team, and one can feel safe and another notThe company needs people to feel psychological safeHow we receive candor mattersThe stories we create about our sense of safety, versus the reality of our safetyOur personal agency when it comes to being safe at workRules of engagement for our candor for both the giver and receiverScaffolding to our candor - meeting people where they areBalance candor with empathyHaving the conflict about the issues, NOT the peopleBridge the connection and the work together Not just what we do, but how we do itIs how we treat each other more important than what we do? Seeing our employees as not just rational beings, but emotional beings as wellIt's not about balance, but counterbalance. Yes/And rather than Either/OrDo our ideas about our company belong to us or our company? Interplay between voice and silence within an organizationSilence as a sign of psychological safety - hearing people think in silence, space between contributions shows listeningHaving a seat at the table doesn't mean having a voiceCollective intelligence - equal time of speaking is one of the factorsIncreasing psychological safety also increases collective intelligencePsychological safety as an outcome, there is no formulaHonoring people's voices without forcing their voicesResources Mentioned:'The Fearless Organization' by Amy Edmondson'Principles' by Ray DalioGoogle's Project Aristotle
44:45 05/02/2022
S01E07 The Who The Hell Are We Episode
What kinds of things you'll learn about us:What we individually create in our work, and what forWhat makes Theresa happy about her workThe company Vincent would want to change The artist/band Theresa would take with her to a deserted islandThe book Vincent would read for the rest of his lifeTheresa's most badass leadership moment What Theresa would do with her one magic wandThe leadership lesson Vincent keeps having to learn again and againHow Vincent is like his fatherTheresa's key to a happy professional lifeWho Theresa would have dinner with if she couldHow Vincent reads so the info stays aliveWhat brings Theresa a sense of aweWhat makes Vincent a readerResources Mentioned:Karpman's Drama TriangleKristin Neff on Self-CompassionBrené BrownElizabeth LesserJim Kwik - Brain Coach
40:58 04/18/2022
S01E06 The Transform To Perform Tomorrow Episode
With Guest Suzanne Lee from Straumann GroupBig Ideas:Intimate relationship between leadership and learningLeadership is an invitation to tomorrow that is better than todayPerform for today, transform for tomorrow - learning and listening is at the coreLearn faster than the environment is changingThe I, the We and the It -- learning must happen on those 3 dimensions or you leave others behindLearning is a mindset, not a tool, process, or life hackChange is speeding up, so must learn faster than the change so we don't get swallowed upTaking responsibility for our workloadsLearning as a value, so I make it happen no matter what is on my plateWhat am I okay with not doing perfectlyDon't bother with time management hacks, be okay with not getting things doneIntentionality of own growth, team growth, and individuals on teams growthHow to reconcile performance with learning and what's on our plateEven within a system that won't help you keep your boundaries, if you have a discipline of reflection and perspective-taking, you can focus more on transformCreate the space and time to reflect and learnReject victim stanceIf not intentional, life takes overLearning on the job, not in the jobLearning will get pushed to the bottom if it is an additional taskIf learning is a business priority to do your current job better, it's not a separate taskIntegrating the learning and reflection into the work as you do itLearning not as an additional to-do that no one has time forChallenge transforming from doing to learning -- great at perform, not so much at transformBuilding in micro-moments of reflection70% of a learning organization is about the culture and leadership, not the toolsUnless it is seen around them, they won't do it on their ownImmediacy bias -- focus on today, not the futurePersist in the struggle because it shows you are onto something - trust the processDebate the topic not the personHow move from hub and spoke model, to a community of practice where we are all accountable Leading more from behind than right out on frontCuriosity and coaching mindset rather than advice givingBounce your worlds with othersShared accountabilityReferences:Unleashed by Frances Frei & Anne Morriss4000 Weeks by Oliver BurkemanThe Power of Giving Away Power by Matthew Barzun
43:07 04/04/2022
S01E05 The Keep Your Monkeys Episode
Vincent starts off with a story….Big Ideas:Don’t take employees monkeys, or it turns into a zooEmployees need to keep their own monkeysLeaders and managers are not necessarily the sameIt’s exhausting and unsustainable for a manager to take everyone’s monkeysIt’s natural for managers to take things off people’s plates. They think it’s their job. How are we supporting people’s transition from individual contributor to management? What is the role of a manager? The shift from owning your work, to overseeing the work of the individual contributors work, without taking it onRole of the manager is to make obstacles go away (organization, finances, resources, team dynamics, psychological safety, recruiting, etc)Manager to focus on the conditions - preparing the space by removing obstacles, and putting things inCreating the conditions for competencies to be builtShould we let employees fail?The relationship between failure and trust.Creating the culture and context for failure is importantNot taking on the failures of individual contributors as our own failures - accountability infectionFail fast, fail early, fail oftenPeople are already failing. Are they doing something with it? As leaders, help them through the failure.The emotional response to the words we use, including failHow are leaders talking about failure?Naming emotions and experiences so that we can have power over itLooking at our fail points ahead of time, so we can pivot soonerHow we keep persisting on to avoid failure even when it’s the wrong pathLooking at our fail points allows us to know whether the risk is worth itDoing more of the same strategy doesn’t work if it’s the wrong strategyTest, Assess, ActAgile working, sprints, and retrospectivesUsing the scientific method and testing hypothesesWhat have I done? What will I do? What are my obstacles?Agile working - product management and scrum masterReferences:The One Minute Manager Meets the Monkey by Ken BlanchardThe Leadership Pipeline by Ram CharanAtlas of the Heart by Brené BrownTaking Smart Risks by Doug SundheimTrust Matters by Ken Blanchard
36:32 03/21/2022
S01E04 The Not Giving Advice Episode
Check in Question:Do you believe criminals can be truly rehabilitated in prison? Big Ideas:“You are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with.”Fear of people who are different than usThe costs of the advice trap that leads to dysfunction in teamsAdvice is personal and the transfer of it doesn’t alway flourish in another context, or with another personBest practices shift based on context, and means that there is only one.We don’t live in a linear world, so there can’t be a best. Advice creates demotivated advice receivers and overwhelmed advice giversAdvice creates a short term solaceAdvice is everywhere and we all seem to like giving it outIs sharing of information giving advice? Sometimes the expertise and advice is wrong for youThe power of the scientific process (randomized trials)Selling your idea as “THE” ideaIs the problem the assumption behind the advice and not the advice itself?The importance of drawing out the ideas of all people, and being attuned to why they aren’t sharing their ideasThe person who talks the most often has the “power” in a situation.Are we willing to share our voice and have power dynamics shift as a result?How to hold power? Being worthy of power.Power with people versus power over othersWhen we interact with people who want our advice and expect to receive itThe people who want to be told what to do, and the people who love to tell others what to doWhat about the cultures where giving advice is a natural part of life because it is a passing along of knowledge? What’s the middle way?Is advice giving a way to exert power over othersThe intention behind the advice giving has many nuancesThe dynamics of the relationship matters when it comes to advice giving/receivingReferences:The Advice Trap by Michael Bungay StanierThe Unforgivable (movie with Sandra Bullock)Adam GrantElias Porter – 6 Listening AttitudesChatter by Ethan CrossQuiet by Susan CainThe Power of Giving Away Power by Matthew BarzunThe Karpman Drama TriangleThe Wisdom of Coaching
36:30 03/07/2022
S01E03 The Living of The Knowledge of Life Episode
With Guest: Tames Rietdijk, founder and former CEO at Business ForensicsCheck in Question:Did you ever play hooky or cut class in school?Big Ideas:Learning as a way of lifeBalance between “living the life of my knowledge, living of the knowledge of life”Would lose perspective if I focused my learning on only one areaLiving of the knowledge of life is learning from the signs and your interpretation Sometimes your environment doesn’t always allow you to transform you into who you want to beNot using the knowledge of the past to inform the futureLearning through experiences and reflectionPutting myself out of my comfort zone to apply what I am learning from booksThe range of people’s opinions from failure to successLearning from the feedback of others that is the opposite of the feedback you would give yourselfThe importance of looking at your drivers (sometimes they are hidden)The habit of relearning The importance of seeing the business world from the inside, rather than studying it from the outsideLetting go of people who may be super productive, but who give feedback in a critical mannerThe power of silenceThe sense of reassurance and certainty that comes with data and numbersSupporting people to learn and understanding that people’s experience and maturity shifts how they learnThe difference between mentoring and coaching and how to apply them with those you leadA sense of autonomy mattersCritical and conscious thinking and the importance of being mindful of your own assumptions Recognizing your own assumptions and beliefs, so that you based your decisions on factsThe older you get, the more knowledge you gain, and the more experiences you have, yet the more stuck you are in your assumptions.Thinking your assumptions are the truth makes it harder to step back from themExperiencing the knowledge so that you internalize your learning moreThe training triangle between participants, trainer, and knowledgeReferences:Gary Vaynerchuk
42:11 02/21/2022
S01E02 The Be Equals Episode
Check in Question:If you could spend a whole day with any one person, who would it be?Big Ideas:Learning from anyone through their experiencesThinking that one has potential doesn’t commit to anything, but believing that people have the keys to their own happiness and that you are equalsSeeing your children as your teacher, rather than you as their teacher.Equalize the relationship to reduce status/rank, and exploring how the relationship shifts when we relate to them with more equityChildren not as spongers, but as mirrors.Start looking at those who we thinking can’t teach us anything, to teach us something. Shifting power dynamics so we are all on the same levelStepping down the pedestal, and/or inviting people up onto our pedestal, or giving ourselves permission to step upMoving from calling people patients to clients to create more of a partnershipFitting in, being liked, and societal shoulds being the drivers away from who we are, and our authentic selvesBalancing group dynamics with personal needsTension between who we think we are and what the group needs - finding the “right” groupTransparency about who you are as a leader and asking team to hold you accountable to being who you areWhich comes first, trust or vulnerability? Creating relationships where there is more reciprocity with intentionIn a “help relationship”, both parties are helping each otherNot needing to be someone special to support other people and have a special role in their growth and/or learningFinding mutuality in our relationshipsReferences:The Carl Rogers ReaderThe Conscious Parent by Dr. Tsabary ShefaliGedankenexperimentAtlas of the Heart by Brené BrownMarc Brackett researcherSocial Identity TheoryNon Violent Communication by Marshall RosenbergHealing Circles GlobalTime to Think by Nancy KleinMary Parker Follett
37:22 02/07/2022
S01E01 The Hunting and Farming Episode
Check In Question:If you only had 24 hours to live, what would you do? Big Ideas:“Living is learning to die”Having a “north star” that is worth dying for (a just cause)Sinek’s belief that businesses are focusing on money, not on a cause.How to transition or connect a non-“sexy” business to having a just cause?Our “just cause” shouldn’t be tied to a service or product, so we can have “existential flex”How do businesses measure success? Financial, Social, Ecological?An infinite game isn’t about winning. The goal is to keep playing.Winning and losing is short-term, fixed mindset.Can you be competitive without winning? In the infinite game, the rules are consistently shifting.The business shift toward business as a result of ideas from Milton FriedmanThe shift in pay scales between employees and CEO’s over the last several decadesReciprocity and giving it backHow we latch onto ideas and how ideas can changeIs making money the primary purpose of business, or the secondary?Move people up the hierarchy of importance in businessMoving away from doing business for the shareholders, and focusing on the employees and their contributionsImbalance in how we measure financial success with regard to employees and shareholders.How to do capitalism different? Who defines capitalism? The constellation mindset rather than a pyramid mindsetA small amount of investment from a large amount of people can tip the scalesThinking of our business as hunting (short term) or farming (longing)People want to feel valued and a part of the journeyThe importance of cultivating relationships as farmersReferences:The Infinite Game by Simon SinekThe Power of Giving Away Power by Mathew BarzunAdam SmithMilton FriedmanGravity Payments The Soul of Money by Lynne TwistPodcast between Simon Sinek and Matthew Barzun
32:15 02/07/2022