Scaling DevTools

Shawn Wang (aka swyx) is the founder of smol.ai (AI news curation), and the cohost of Latent Space (popular AI Engineer podcast). Plus, Shawn started the AI Engineer movement with his essay Rise of the AI Engineer and organized two incredible AI engineer conferences in the past twelve months - AI Engineer World's Fair and AI Engineer SummitAnd Shawn has angel invested in DevTools like Airbyte, Railway, Supabase, Replay.io, Stackblitz, Flutterflow, Fireworks.ai while running the DevTools angels community. Besides this, Shawn curates DX.tips (DevTools magazine) and in a past life wrote the Coding Career handbook, championed learn in public, cofounded Svelte Society and was previously Head of Developer Experience at Temporal, and a Developer Advocate at AWS and Netlify.Also, before this, Shawn had a very successful career in investment banking, trading, building data pipelines and performing quantitate portfolio management. I think this brings him a very unique perspective - I've always admired his ability to zoom out and see the big picture and the trends. Even though Shawn is now all-in on AI, he's still one of the go-to authorities on DevTools go-to-market.As you can tell, Shawn is someone I deeply admire. So I'm glad he came back.What we discuss:Organizing the AI Engineer ConferencesRise of the AI EngineerIntentionality and principles (yes we even talk about Alcoholics Anonymous)The AI CEOInvisible deadlinesIlya believing in AGI more than most people at OpenAIAre developers going to be obsolete? Thor convinced swyx to invest in SupabaseBuilding DevTools that work well with LLMsAngel investing in DevTools - why and howIs DevRel dead?How to hire DevRelWhy DX.tips existsLinks:Rise of the AI Engineer https://www.latent.space/p/ai-engineerLatent Space Podcast https://www.latent.space/swyx's Twitter https://x.com/swyxswyx's website https://www.swyx.io/swyx's LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawnswyxwang/smol.ai https://smol.ai/DevTools Angels https://github.com/sw-yx/devtools-angelsDX.tips https://dx.tips/DevRel's Death as Zero Interest Rate Phenomenon https://dx.tips/zirp AI Engineer Summit https://www.ai.engineer/summit/2023AI Engineer World's Fair https://www.ai.engineer/worldsfairCoding Career Handbook https://www.learninpublic.org/Shawn's previous appearance on Scaling DevTools https://podcast.scalingdevtools.com/episodes/swyx Eisenhower Matrix https://asana.com/resources/eisenhower-matrixThor from Supabase https://x.com/thorwebdevSolaris AI coworking space in SF https://www.solarissf.com/Browserbase https://www.browserbase.com/Indent https://indent.com/ and Fouad https://x.com/fouadmatinHow to do hackathons https://dx.tips/hackathonsHow to do conferences https://dx.tips/conf-guideHow to hire DevRel https://dx.tips/mailbox-first-devrel-hiringClimbing the ladder of abstraction with Amelia Wattenberger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAy_GHUAICwCheck out the Enterprise Ready Conf from WorkOS https://enterprise-ready.com/

10/10/24 • 75:22

Sagar is the CEO and co-founder of Speakeasy - an API tooling platform. We talk about the journey of Speakeasy. The challenges of startup life. How they developed the product and how they work with influencers in a surprising way.Building relationships with influencers can significantly enhance product development.Importance of listening to customersFine line between product and consultingThe role of documentation in user experienceBeing responsive to customer needs builds long-term relationships.The startup journey requires patience and adaptability.Links:Sagar Batchu Speakeasy https://www.speakeasy.com/Check out the Enterprise Ready Conf from WorkOS https://enterprise-ready.com/

10/4/24 • 55:37

In this conversation, Anurag Goel, founder and CEO of Render, discusses the evolution of Render as a cloud infrastructure platform is actually simple to use.He shares insights from his time at Stripe, emphasizing the importance of customer focus, crafting a seamless user experience, and the philosophy of progressive disclosure of complexity. Anurag also highlights the significance of customer support as an integral part of the product and offers advice for aspiring founders on finding their passion and maintaining empathy in their work.This episode is brought to you by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.What we discuss:Building in special details enhances customer experience.The delicate balance between simplicity and capability. How the power of sensible defaults. and progressive disclosure of complexity improves usability.Focus on customer needs drives product development.Customer support should be treated as a product.Finding founder market fit is crucial for success.Empathy for users is essential in product development.LinksAnurag's Twitter https://x.com/anuraggoelRender https://render.com/Stripe https://stripe.com/KeywordsRender, developer experience, cloud infrastructure, customer support, startup culture, Anurag Goel, Stripe, product development, user experience, technology

9/26/24 • 40:33

This is our 100th episode! And we're thrilled to welcome back fan favourite Ant Wilson - the cofounder and CTO of Supabase.They discuss the evolution of Supabase, the importance of open source, and effective marketing strategies. Ant shares insights on community engagement, the significance of developer-centric branding, and the challenges of navigating the enterprise landscape. We also touch on the rise of AI and vector databases, emphasizing the power of open source in development. The conversation concludes with reflections on the journey and future aspirations.Thank you to everyone who made it our 100th episode!TakeawaysOpen source can significantly enhance hiring opportunities.Building a strong brand requires understanding your audience.Open source provides a competitive edge against incumbents.The importance of stability and security for enterprise clients.Time in the market builds trust with potential customers.LinksSupabase https://supabase.com/Ant Wilson's Twitter https://x.com/antwilsonpgvector https://supabase.com/docs/guides/database/extensions/pgvector  Greg Richardson https://x.com/ggrdsonPrevious episode with Ant https://podcast.scalingdevtools.com/episodes/product-market-fit-is-one-pivot-away-with-ant-wilson-founder-of-supabaseKeywordsopen source, developer tools, marketing strategies, community engagement, AI, vector databases, enterprise solutions, product development, tech podcast

9/24/24 • 42:40

Nick Gomez is the co-founder and CEO of InKeep. InKeep is an AI customer support tool focused on Developer Tools.They discuss the importance of understanding developer needs, the role of AI in technical support, and how community engagement can enhance support efforts. What we discussAI support for developer tools is different from traditional B2B SaaS support.Developers often seek help through documentation and community forums.Scaling technical support requires understanding the developer's tech stack.Clear communication channels can improve support efficiency.AI solutions must prioritize quality to build trust with users.Community engagement can help crowdsource support efforts.Support teams should continuously improve documentation based on user inquiries.24/7 support can be achieved through AI tools.Investing in customer relationships can lead to valuable insights and support.Innovative tools are changing the landscape of developer support.Links:Nick Gomez's Twitter https://x.com/nickgomezcInKeep https://inkeep.com/ KeywordsAI support, developer tools, technical support, community engagement, customer investment, quality assurance, support team structure, 24/7 support, innovations in development

9/22/24 • 39:13

Adam Frankl has been VP at four Developer Tools unicorns, including JFrog, Neo4J and Sourcegraph.Adam is the author of the Developer Facing Startup and recently launched the Developer Facing Startup Founders Academy: a program that helps founders launch and grow their developer tools. In this conversation, Adam Frankl discusses the critical role of a Technical Advisory Board (TAB) in the success of developer-facing startups. He emphasizes the importance of understanding developer needs, effective interviewing techniques, and the necessity of building credibility and community. Adam outlines a structured approach to gathering insights from developers. He also highlights the significance of storytelling in marketing and the need for founders to engage deeply with their user base to discover and address their problems effectively.Takeaways:A Technical Advisory Board is essential for startup success.Founders must prioritize understanding developer needs.Effective interviews should focus on the problem, not the product.Social proof is crucial for building credibility.Developers are influenced by their peers and community.The 'Dream Sequence' outlines the developer adoption process.Storytelling is key to engaging potential users.Founders should continuously engage with their user base.Identifying key personas is vital for targeted outreach.Developers are not leads; they require a different approach.Links:Developer Facing Startup Founders Academy https://developer-facing-founders-network.mn.co/Adam Frankl's LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamfrankl/The Developer Facing Startup https://www.amazon.co.uk/Developer-Facing-Startup-market-developer-facing/dp/B0D4KJNSPPKeywords:Technical Advisory Board, Developer Startups, User Research, Developer Needs, Social Proof, Community Building, Founder Responsibilities, Developer Adoption, Interview Techniques, Startup Success

9/20/24 • 89:43

In this conversation, with Michael Grinich - founder and CEO of WorkOS. WorkOS helps you start selling to enterprise customers with just a few lines of code. We discuss the challenges and strategies of navigating tough conversations in a startup environment, the importance of understanding engineering leadership, and the role of empathy in user experience. The conversation covers the significance of conferences for startups, the necessity of articulating the 'why' behind a business, and the challenges faced by solo founders. The discussion also touches on decision-making processes, handling competition, and the future direction of WorkOS.If a conversation scares you, it's probably necessary.Engineering leaders focus on business goals, not just technology.Conferences can be a great way to connect with potential customers.Building relationships at events can lead to long-term success.Frameworks can be constraining; focus on user empathy instead.Understanding user needs is crucial for product development.Articulating the 'why' can enhance customer connection.Maintaining focus on your mission is key to success.Finding a deeper mission can drive your startup forward.The journey of building a startup is often unclear at the beginning.Links:WorkOS https://workos.com/Michael's Twitter https://x.com/grinich ELC https://sfelc.com/ Crossing the Enterprise Chasm Podcast https://workos.com/podcastStart With Why https://simonsinek.com/books/start-with-why/AWS reinvent https://reinvent.awsevents.com/ 

9/16/24 • 55:50

In this episode, we're joined by returning guest Colin Sidoti - the cofounder and CEO of Clerk.Clerk is a comprehensive user management platform.  What we cover:- The origin story and South Park Commons- Clerk's dramatic growth since the first episode - what changed? What did they do right?- 7% growth per week- Tiny details that improve the developer experience- How to you know if a change is better - watching people's faces as they try it - The difficulties of bringing new joiners up to speed in a very high context environment- Obsessions of founders- Zuckerberg's obsession and South Park Commons talk- Nick Parsons appreciation: why it's hard to hire good developer marketing people - The uniqueness of marketing developer tools- Buying a van and parking it outside YC- Local marketing campaigns in San FranciscoLinks:- Clerk https://clerk.com/- Colin's Twitter https://x.com/tweetsbycolin- Nick Parsons' Twitter https://x.com/nickparsons- Jakob's tweet https://x.com/jakeplusev/status/1827791946380877828- Malte Ubl's blog https://www.industrialempathy.com/- Zuck's talk at South Park Commons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02fBBoZa9l4

9/12/24 • 45:27

David is the CEO of Arcjet. Arcjet is a tool that helps developers protect their apps once they go into production. It offers Bot detection, rate limiting, email validation, attack protection, data redaction.David is also the creator of the console.dev newsletter and podcast. It's where thousands of developers discover developer tools. In this episode we discuss how David thinks about creating content. Why he believes go-to-market is more difficult than product and how he works on creating great developer experience. Links:- Arcjet https://arcjet.com/- David Mytton - https://davidmytton.blog/ - Console https://console.dev/AI DevTools hackathon this weekend in SF:- Event page https://lu.ma/devtools-hackathon- More info https://www.devtoolshackathon.com/

9/4/24 • 30:30

Vlad Matsiiako is the CEO and co-founder of Infisical. Infisical is an Open Source Secret Management tool.What we discuss:- The story of Infisical- How the team has made Infisical easy to adopt- How being open source helps you with trust at the beginning stages- How do enterprises adopt Infisical- How do developers at enterprises discover tools like Infisical- The different mini-games at various stages of a startup (Dalton Caldwell)  LinksVlad - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vmatsiiako/Infisical - https://infisical.com/

8/29/24 • 39:38

Andrew Lisowski is the cohost of devtools.fm. In this episode we talk about why Andrew started devtools.fm and what he's learned along the way. Life as an open source maintainer.How the JavaScript ecosystem is different to other developer ecosystems.The importance of dogfooding.The power of DHH.Why obsessing over one problem eventually leads to great resultsShould DevTools start podcasts and how?Links:devtools.fm - https://www.devtools.fm/Andrew's Twitter - https://x.com/HipsterSmoothiedevtools.fm Twitter - https://x.com/DevtoolsFMInterview with DHH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEZNbM4MUdoInterview with Evan You https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycuYlzuBqcAInterview with Richard Harris https://www.devtools.fm/episode/15

8/24/24 • 34:37

Robby (Amanda Robson) is the co-host of Open Source Startup Podcast (with Tim Chen).In this episode we discuss:There are many ways to open source successWhen open source is a good strategy and when it isn'tWhy open source projects usually need time to brewHow to know if your project is venture scaleWhy Robby believes in the Open Source modelRobby is working on a highly mysterious new thing 👀Links:- Robby's Twitter/X https://x.com/amanda_robs?lang=en- Open Source Startup Podcast https://oss-startup-podcast.launchnotes.io/- Interview with Paul from Supabase https://oss-startup-podcast.launchnotes.io/announcements/episode-43-building-supabase-the-open-source-firebase-alternative- Interview with Leyland from Mobile Dev https://oss-startup-podcast.launchnotes.io/announcements/episode-63-mobile-dev-s-new-mobile-testing-framework-maestro - mobile dev https://www.mobile.dev/- Tim's Twitter/X https://x.com/tnachen

8/15/24 • 30:20

Hamzah Chaudhary is the cofounder of Lightdash, an open source, self-serve BI tool. In this episode, Hamzah shares:Their initial plan to build a consultancy and how it morphed into a product to solve their customer's needsHow open source works as a strategyBringing software engineering tools to the BI domainHow they reach their usersHow they partner with bigger organizationsLinks:Lightdash https://www.lightdash.com/Lightdash GitHub https://github.com/lightdash/lightdashHamzah's Twitter https://x.com/hamzahc1

8/8/24 • 32:05

Han Wang is co-founder of Mintlify - modern, out the box documentation.In this episode, Han shares the story of Mintlify and how to make great docs.We even talk about the time Paul Graham told them to change their name.What we cover:- the origin story of Mintlify- what is good documentation- the process of documentation- how AI is affecting documentation- why PG told them to change their nameLinks:- Han https://han.dev/- Mintlify https://mintlify.com/

8/1/24 • 39:37

Kate Holterhoff - an analyst from RedMonk - shares why frontend developers are increasingly dictating the adoption of new developer tools.Kate shares specific examples, including Supabase. Links:Frontend Developers: the Newest New Kingmakers https://redmonk.com/kholterhoff/2024/02/15/frontend-developers-the-newest-new-kingmakers/Kate's website https://www.kateholterhoff.com/RedMonk https://redmonk.com/Kate's Twitter/X https://x.com/KateHolterhoff

7/25/24 • 33:07

Vivian Dufour is the CEO and co-founder of Meterian.Meterian is an open source vulnerability scanner.In this episode we talk about topics like:Selling to enterprisesWhy you need to make your product easy to testHiring and managing salespeopleLinks:Meterian: https://www.meterian.io/Vivian Dufour - https://www.linkedin.com/in/viviandufour/ 

7/18/24 • 32:56

Ellen Chisa is a partner at Boldstart Ventures. Prior to Boldstart, Ellen founded Darklang - a programming language. Before Darklang, Ellen worked in product. What we discussed: Startups should focus on building one SDK and doing it well, rather than trying to build multiple SDKs at once.North Star metricsDeveloper tooling companies can learn from consumer-facing companies in terms of marketing and creating an identity for their product.Being authentic as a founder and actively engaging with the community can help establish a strong brand and attract users. Recognize and leverage your unique strengths and skills.Busy work can be valuableThe importance of segmenting your messageLinks:Ellen's Twitter/X https://x.com/ellenchisa?lang=enBoldstart Ventures https://boldstart.vc/darklang https://darklang.com/

7/5/24 • 38:26

How do you write a developer quick start guide that they will love?That's what we talk about with Amit Jotwani. Amit is the founder of HelloDX and previously worked in developer experience at Retool and Amazon Alexa.This came about because I was reading Amit's fantastic guide on EveryDeveloper. Links:Amit's website https://ajot.me/HelloDX https://hellodx.co/Craft Quick Start Guides That Developers Will Love https://everydeveloper.com/quick-start-guides/Amit's Twitter/X https://x.com/amitThis episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.

6/27/24 • 39:59

James Hawkins is the cofounder and CEO of PostHog. PostHog is a platform to analyze, test, observe, and deploy new features.This is the second time James has been on and the episode is mostly about how they run PostHog.It's a pretty unconventional approach - probably because James thinks very deeply about how organizations should operate. What we discuss:How PostHog hireHis approach to one-on-one meetingsThe role of engineers in product developmentThe impact of open source projects on PostHog's successA surprising secret to success (fun)Importance of listening to developersLinks:James's Twitter https://x.com/james406PostHog https://posthog.com/The Mental Workload of Hoovering https://jefhawkins.com/blog/mental-workload-of-hooveringRay Dalio's Principles https://www.principles.com/  James's first interview https://podcast.scalingdevtools.com/episodes/working-with-enterprise-clients-with-james-hawkins This episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.

6/20/24 • 39:51

Greg Lazarus and Matt Althauser are two of the cofounders of Polychrome - a company that buys small to medium sized B2B software businesses: with a focus on Developer Tools. Their portfolio includes the feature flagging tool Flagsmith (we recorded an episode with them last week) and the browser automation tool Browserless.In this episode we cover the ins and outs of buying developer tools. Links:- Polychrome https://www.polychrome.com/- Matt Althauser https://x.com/malthauser?lang=en - Greg Lazarus https://x.com/greglaz5This episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.

6/13/24 • 45:39

Ben Rometsch is the founder of Flagsmith. Flagsmith is a Feature Flag & Remote Config Service that recently reached $3m ARR.Ben candidly shares exactly how they started, how they got enterprise customers and how they worked with Polychrome to take Flagsmith to the next level.Links:Ben's Twitter https://x.com/dabeeeensterFlagsmith https://www.flagsmith.com/Polychrome https://polychrome.com/This episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.

6/6/24 • 50:28

Aaron Francis is someone who needs little introduction. Especially if you've ever used Laravel or MySQL. Aaron built up the highly acclaimed PlanetScale YouTube channel and now publishes content on his own channel and founded Try Hard Studios to help developer tools make amazing video content.Here are some quotes from Aaron's viewers:hey man your videos kick ass and i cannot thank you enough for your approach with these. your videos can be watched once and understood... every single one of them... i don't know how you do it, but the way you have picked to teach anything you teach is incredible. you freaking rock! thank you!Great stuff! Love that you mix in a bit of fun with the content, it's what got me to subscribe!I have been working with MySQL for last 17 years and I never use cursor but your video helped me to understand MySQL cursor. Thank youiterally laughing out loud several times. absolute gold.(partner's like "what are you watching?!" "a guy seeding a database!"In this episode, we take a deep dive into how Aaron makes videos and what you can learn from his approach.This episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.Links:Aaron's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@aarondfrancisAaron's Twitter https://x.com/aarondfrancisMostly Technical Podcast - https://mostlytechnical.com/ Try Hard Studios: https://tryhardstudios.com/Aaron's Handwriting robots - https://x.com/aarondfrancis/status/1438888219471491074?lang=en 

5/30/24 • 62:33

Dani Grant is the founder of Jam.dev - bug reporting that developers love.In this episode we discuss:Product development & user retentionIterating to product market fitBranding - what it is/why it mattersPrioritising product features based on feedbackAI powered debuggingLinks:Jam.dev https://jam.dev/ Dani’s Twitter https://twitter.com/thedanigrant This episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.

5/23/24 • 34:51

Chris Bell is the founder of Knock.app - flexible, reliable notifications infrastructure.In this episode we discuss:Designing APIsThe importance of champions when selling to enterpriseHow do you justify cost of a developer tool?Selling to platform teamsLinks:Knock https://knock.app/Twitter https://twitter.com/cjbell_This episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.

5/16/24 • 42:24

Jason Bosco is the founder of Typesense. Typesense is the Open Source alternative to Algolia. Typesense is a batteries-included Search API.We discuss how Jason built Typesense to be a hugely successful company without VC funding. We talk about what revenue-funding means and why it should be considered as a viable option for founders.This episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.Links:- Jason's Twitter: https://twitter.com/jasonbosco- Typesense https://typesense.org/ 

5/9/24 • 41:57

An interview with Igor Zalutski & Utpal Nadiger from Digger.dev.Digger is an Open Source Infrastructure as Code management tool that helps orchestrate Terraform and OpenTofu within your CI/CD system.We talk about:What changed since Jack worked with DiggerHow they pivoted four times to find PMFHow do you know you have somethingOpenTofu & ThePrimeagenThis episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.Links:https://digger.dev/Igor - https://twitter.com/igorzijUtpal - https://twitter.com/NadigerUtpal

5/2/24 • 33:39

Dana Oshiro is a General Partner at Heavybit. Heavybit is a VC that invests exclusively in developer-first startups.What we discuss:One sharp thing. Finding an addressable chunk of a bigger opportunity. Thinking big & smallAre 5 people seriously going to support our migration from DataDog? At Facebook you had a lot of support people/systems you're forgettingFinding the sidedoorStepping up as a founderFear of hitting up the people you respect.Best founders build for themselvesDo founders get better at putting themselves out there?  Speaking in front of people to make change - "there's a new approach. We deserve better!"MovementsDevOps & JamStackDon't try to control the movementJoining into other movementsLinksDana Oshiro https://twitter.com/danaoshiroHeavybit https://heavybit.com/Thanks to Adam DuVander from https://everydeveloper.com/ for introducing us.This episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.

4/25/24 • 48:14

Alex Bouchard is the cofounder of Hookdeck. Hookdeck is an event gateway for asynchronous applications.What we discuss:- What is Hookdeck?- Category vs pivot- Gartner categoriesLinks:- Alex: https://twitter.com/AlexBouchardd- Hookdeck https://hookdeck.com/ This episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.

4/19/24 • 35:46

Glauber Costa is the founder of Turso - a fully managed SQLite database platform.Glauber shares how to make great CLIs, the story of Turso's pivot. Their pricing. And the importance of moving fast. Links:Turso - https://turso.tech/Glauber's Twitter - https://twitter.com/glcstThis episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.

4/11/24 • 43:46

Anders Borum shares how he created the number 1 git app in the app store - Working Copy.What we talk about:The origins of Working CopyWord of mouth vs App Store OptimisationOne time vs recurring subscriptionLinks:Anders - https://twitter.com/palminWorking Copy - https://workingcopy.app/Rauno https://twitter.com/OvalSoftware This episode is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're thinking about selling to enterprise customers, WorkOS can help you add enterprise features like Single Sign On and audit logs.

4/4/24 • 31:57