SA Voices From the Field

The latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field kicks off Season 14 with a truly inspiring conversation with incoming NASPA Board Chair, Dr. Darryl Holloman. Hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, the episode dives deep into the evolving landscape of higher education and what it means to work in student affairs today. Dr. Holloman brings over three decades of experience to the table, spanning roles at HBCUs, PWIs, and across governance, academic administration, and talent management. His journey to Vice President for Student Affairs at Spelman College is a testament to the power of mentorship, professional exploration, and seizing unexpected opportunities. The conversation focuses on the value and challenges facing student affairs professionals, particularly in a period marked by ongoing turmoil—post-pandemic disruption, shifting enrollment, and threats to DEI initiatives. Dr. Holloman emphasizes the need to move beyond accepting the "new normal" and instead frame current challenges as "new possibilities," encouraging professionals to be both forward-ready and future-ready. At the heart of his vision is the "North Star Project," an initiative designed to reclaim public trust and redefine the purpose of higher education. This multifaceted endeavor includes three key arms: Rebuilding Public Trust Survey: A national study examining how those outside higher ed perceive colleges and universities, pushing for deeper understanding beyond the usual Gallup poll data. New Professional Task Force: A focus on early-career professionals, listening deeply to their needs, and developing skill-building opportunities—like real-time badging systems—to help retain talent and strengthen the student affairs pipeline. NASPA Commission on HBCU and Community College Pathways: An effort to amplify the voices of HBCUs and community colleges within NASPA's governance, reflecting their crucial roles in access and mission-driven education. Dr. Holloman's personal values—knowledge, God, family, humility, and hard work—shine throughout the discussion, reinforcing the importance of aligning purpose and professional philosophy. If you're looking for insight into the future of student affairs, practical strategies for professional development, and a fresh take on the value of our field, this is a must-listen. Tune in to hear how Dr. Holloman and NASPA are charting a new course, and discover ways to get involved in shaping the next chapter. Listen to the episode and join the conversation! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher education professionals wherever you happen to be. This is Season 14, continuing our conversation on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to Student Affairs Voices from the Field. We are thrilled to kick off our current season with Dr. Darryl B. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:33]: Holloman, who is a distinguished leader in higher education with over 3 decades of experience in student affairs, academic administration, institutional advancement, governance and board relations, and human talent management. Dr. Holloman has worked at several regional and nationally recognized higher education institutions where he supervised collectively over 300 employees and overseen budgets of over $300 million. Dr. Holloman's extensive experience strategically vision and unwavering commitment to student success and institutional excellence make him a transformative leader in higher ed. He currently serves as the VPSA at Spelman College, but he's held senior-level positions at Georgia State University, Columbus State University, and Rutgers University-Newark. He's held faculty appointments at each institution, including full-time faculty appointments at the University of Arkansas-Little Rock and the institutions aforementioned. His contributions continue to inspire and shape the future of academic communities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: Dr. Holloman has several articles and book chapters to his credit. His research examines the way that disadvantage manage groups, develop, and demonstrate their agency in educational systems, particularly within urban school settings. He's the co-editor of the book entitled From Boyhood to Manhood: Deconstructing Black Masculinity Through a Lifespan Continuum through Peter Lang Press. His most current manuscript is entitled In the Middle: Leading as a Mid-Level Professional in Student Affairs, which was published by NASPA. He's an active member of St. Luke's Episcopal Church, and he lives in Atlanta with a spouse of 32 years, Glenn Williams, and their two sons, Delbert and Delvin. But most importantly, and why we have him on pod today as he is our incoming NASPA Board Chair. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:04]: We hope you enjoy this conversation. Darryl, welcome to SA Voices. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:02:08]: Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:11]: We are absolutely honored to have you as our season premiere for this season of SA Voices here in spring of 2026, and you are joining us in a long and illustrious line of NASPA Board Chairs-to-be. It's one of our favorite episodes to record in the springtime. Last, last year we had Mike Christakis on who is just finishing up his full year as Board Chair. And in just a couple of weeks now, that gavel will be passing your way. So this episode is one where we like to introduce you to the NASPA membership, what you hope that your leadership will bring to the association over the next year, and messages for our NASPA membership. So before we get into all of that, our favorite question to start the show off with is how did you get to your current seat, both at Spelman and at NASPA? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:02:59]: Well, I got to Spelman. It was a really interesting journey because I was serving on the board of a local charter school. And the guy that we hired as a CEO said, hey, I really want you to meet my mom. And his mom works at Spelman. She's still on my staff at Spelman. And he's, you know, we just, let's go to lunch. And so we went to lunch. And at that time I was AVP Dean of Students at Georgia State University. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:03:23]: And I was starting to think about, you know, where would I go to be a vice president for student affairs? I have this lunch and at the end of the lunch, my colleague said, "Hey, you should apply at Spelman. We have an opening." And at that time, I said, "Oh, okay, sure, I'll look at it." But, you know, Spelman is an all-women's HBCU in Atlanta. I've not ever worked at an HBCU. I've not worked at a liberal arts college, small college, and definitely an all-women's college. And so I applied. I applied with 6 very wonderful women. Half of them I knew very personally. And then I got the call that I had the job, which totally caught me off guard because it was— was not in the trajectory of where I thought my career was going. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:04:07]: I had worked— done most of my work at large, larger public institutions, predominantly white institutions. And so I got the job. I have had a tremendous, tremendous experience here. I got to NASPA 30 years ago. I had a dean of students, Dean Curt Kepler, who hired me. I was a student worker, and then he hired me on as a staff. And he said I should go to this thing called a new professional institute. And at that time, NASPA had this nationwide platform, onboarding new professionals, and it was at UGA, and it was so impactful that it led me into a lifelong volunteer commitment with NASPA, and it's been extremely rewarding, and I've, I've just done so many things, have so many opportunities, have an upcoming book in the middle, co-edited with Gigi Segubin and Spencer Platt, that'll be coming out in the spring. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:04:57]: So there's so many wonderful opportunities to NASPA, so I've just been really blessed professionally and in my volunteer activities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:04]: What have you done in NASPA in terms of volunteerism, leadership, contribution before deciding to run for board chair? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:05:12]: So I had a wonderful opportunity from one of, one of my colleagues, Danita Brown-Young. And Danita, she called me, she said, hey, I think I want you to be my member at large, and I want you to focus on how can NASPA better support HBCUs. And so I joined the board. We did surveys, like some really great work around that, but that really gave me gave me some great insight into how NASPA runs as an organization, the work that it does, the commitments that it makes, and, you know, kind of the engine in the car. And so that was very powerful for me to be able to have that experience as a member board chair. Prior to that, and this was really a great experience for me, I had joined the NASPA Foundation Board, and those two in tandem have been really helpful to help me understand not just in NASPA, but how organizations run, how nonprofits run, how boards run, the decisions that have to be made. And so it's just been a wonderful experience. And outside of presenting and doing some of the other stuff, those have been the most significant governance opportunities that I've had at NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:19]: And now let's think about what is ahead. So again, in just a couple of weeks here, we'll be seeing you in Kansas City. The board will be convening, the membership will be convening for our annual learning opportunity at conference. What are you thinking about going into this transition? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:06:35]: So, you know, we are in such turmoil right now in higher ed. You know, we followed the pandemic. It was very, very much a disruptor. And then now we're just faced with a lot of challenges, enrollment cliffs, DEI leaving many of our institutions that have become such a part of our fabric, funding in so many ways, federal funding being taken. So it's a real difficult time. And I think I keep hearing people talk about this is our new normal. This is our new normal. And I want to really challenge us to start to think beyond that and to think, how do we turn our new normal into new possibilities? And how can we be more forward-ready and future-ready? And I think the best way for us to do that as an association is to really lean into our memberships. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:07:23]: I think sometimes when you work in student affairs, we have such an emphasis on students, and that should be, that's important. That's, that's our lifeblood. But if we are not in really good spaces in terms of our our own professional development, our own training, our own understanding, if we are not having holistic wellness, then we can't do the work that we need to do. We don't have the capacity to do it for students. And so my idea is kind of wrapped into what I'm calling the North Star Project. The North Star historically had been seen as a symbol in African American communities as that guiding point, that place that took you from oppression to a place of freedom and enlightenment. And so, um, The North Star Project is all about reclaiming the purpose and public trust of higher education, because I do believe there's a lack of trust in higher education. And so I have three arms of the North Star Project. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:08:17]: One is a national study that is being conducted by Tim Bono, who is my member at large. And we really, through the Rebuilding Public Trust national survey, we want to get an understanding of how people outside of higher ed view us. And so we're kind of expanding upon the Gallup poll. The Gallup poll tells us there's a lack of confidence in higher education, but we want to drill down a little bit deeper and know why. Because I think a lot of times in higher ed, we preach to the choir and we're talking to one another and we really don't know often what are the perceptions of individuals who maybe not have even attended college. And so to be stronger, I think we need that information. And so Tim Bono will be doing that national survey. Survey on the trust in higher education, the confidence in higher education. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:09:07]: Very excited about that. I've seen the survey a bit to get the results and see what happens. The next thing is, as I mentioned earlier, something that impacted my career. And so I'm really looking to bring together a group of people under the new professional task force to get a better understanding of professionals that are coming in with 1 to 5 years of experience. And I think we have a flood of new professionals that think differently about the work, that perceive the work differently. In my generation, I'm a Gen Xer, my generation has a tendency to keep saying like, why don't they just do like we did? But it's a different time. They're presented with way different challenges, having to make decisions in a very different way and under a lot of pressure. And so I'm really interested in seeing how our association can pour into our new professionals. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:09:57]: And so the New Professional Task Force is all about strengthening the student affairs pipeline because what What I'm hearing now are senior-level people who are just really, really burned out. I jokingly say we're all a lottery ticket away from not being vice presidents of student affairs. And then I think you have mid-levels who see the stressors that the VP does and they don't wanna do it. And they're like, I'm fine. Like, I'm, I'm gonna stay in this role. I'm good. I don't need to be the vice president. And then you have new professionals who are coming in with a different set of expectations. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:10:32]: And so I think starting at the front end of the pipeline will help us to guide people to those senior-level positions. And the last thing is a NASPA commission on HBCU and community college pathways, because I think these institutions provide a lot of opportunities for students. Many are access-driven, deeply mission-driven. And I think what I'm seeing definitely at HBCUs is a resurgence of high school students who are interested in HBCUs. They're kind of seeing some of the ultra micro-aggressions the oppressions that are occurring in society, and they're looking for space that affirm them and validate them. And so HBCUs play a critical role in being able to do that. And so I think it's critically important in the alignment with HBCUs is really focusing also on community colleges. Our country is really beginning deep discussions about affordability and what that means. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:11:28]: And we've been talking about that in higher ed for like the last 20 years of affordability. And you can't have a conversation about affordability and being able to manage loan debt in higher education without also thinking about community colleges and the works that occur within community colleges. I'm extremely excited about this initiative because I think our association has an opportunity to better understand the needs and the engagements at HBCUs and community colleges and really figuring out how we not only have these members as participants, but how do we get them as well into governance structures. Cultures. I'll use, for example, HBCUs. I don't always want to be the only HBCU voice in the room because we're all so very different. About 103 HBCUs, all institutions with different types, different missions, and that brings a different type of voice into the room. So the North Star Project really is comprised of three arms. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:12:29]: It is rebuilding public trust survey, trying to gather and gain information about how people view us on the outside. Pulling together a group to look at the new professional task force, which is about strengthening student affairs pipeline. And the last is the NASPA Commission on HBCU and community college pathways. So we get a better understanding of how we can support this sector of our field. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:53]: I really like your theme of it being the North Star and being our guiding light for the profession and helping us find some direction as professionals. And I'd like to take these one by one. The first project being that external survey, who are we surveying to ask about the perceptions of higher education? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:13:09]: So we are specifically looking for folks who are— that don't work in higher education, that may not have attended higher education. And so it is the segment of the population that probably have the most questions about higher education and the value of higher education. But we're also in that survey will be included people who graduated from colleges. And so I think there are segments of our population who have— we've been required to get graduate degrees. And I think there's some frustration about that, right? You've gone to college, you've spent a lot of money, and then you're not working in your major. You're not working in the field that you thought you were, and you have all of this college debt and this degree that you may not be having the best usage of. And so it's gonna be a combination of people that are completely outside of higher education. So it won't be us speaking to us. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:14:05]: It will be really gathering the ideas and perspectives of people outside. So for one of the questions that I can remember, we are looking at college presidents asking the question about senior leaders in higher education. Do people even know what a college president is supposed to do? Do you have perceptions about that? But I think we may be— college presidents may be out of sync with what society is expecting of a college president. And so we just want to get some cleaner insight, deeper insight into the work that we do. It's almost like a 360 for higher education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:40]: I think that's an interesting statement that maybe the general public doesn't know what a university president does, but I also wonder often if internally within our organizations, we all know what a college president does, especially if we're several hierarchical layers removed from that position. We've talked to several college presidents on the pod who have been former VPSAs, and I think our student affairs folks, we all know what a VPSA does, but that college presidency is a little bit mystical sometimes. And some of the presidents that we've spoken to are focused on fundraising, some are focused on legislative action, but almost all of them seem to be externally focused more than internally focused right now. And I think that's an interesting shift. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:15:19]: And I was talking about this with a friend that, you know, probably 50 years ago, people talked about— they were— I'll use Georgia State as an example, right? Not, not to say that the Georgia State president says this, but, you know, they would say, I am Georgia State's president. Right? But now I think people think, I am the president of XYZ institution. And it's a small nuance in the differences of that. But saying, I am Georgia State's president, or I'm said institution's president, puts the president really in the center of the mission, that they are part of the community. But when you start to say, I am the president of X, it almost makes it it feel as if, you know, and you rightfully so, the leader, but you're in this kind of real corporate leader mind, you know, kind of mindset and running. And I think just over time, the idea of what it means to be a college president has changed so drastically that I wonder sometimes if some college presidents even— I think they get surprised when they get into the role and they figure out it is not necessarily what they may have thought it was going to be, because it's a definite difference in being a college president today. You're running more of an enterprise now than just a college. And I think that sense of higher ed being an enterprise is where I think communities are feeling like, well, I don't understand, like, what does the college president do? And so getting information on the outside, I think helps to inform and align the expectations of what college presidents are doing in society today. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:54]: Absolutely. I'll be very much looking forward to learning what we learn, because I think we have kind of our own narrative. Our own communities about what we hear from friends, family, social spaces, what, you know, what we do at universities and especially in the American context right now, there's a lot shifting about higher education and the perception of higher ed. Let's go to that second part of the North Star Project, which is the new professional pipeline. That 1 to 5 year space, I think is incredibly critical as we're seeing a generational shift of who's occupying that 1 to 5 year space. We're seeing the last of the millennials come through the early stages of Gen Z coming into student affairs. And you mentioned that we're seeing seeing different value set come forward from this generation. And one thing that I have noticed and very much appreciate is a focus on work-life balance from this generation. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:42]: And I don't mean work-life integration. I truly mean balance of people that are much more comfortable advocating for that balance and maybe shouldn't have to advocate for that balance because we need to do a better job of modeling it as the senior leaders. But the space that's occupied has also consistently been one that requires a master's degree to enter, which I think is an ongoing conversation in student affairs as a profession. But what else are you thinking about as you look at what is affecting new professionals and their retention into the field? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:18:10]: I think we have to, to listen deeply to our new professionals, which is a part of this task force. We haven't quite determined how, how we're gonna gather that information, but I think you, you know, right now my generation, which is the Gen Xers, are senior VPs and in these senior level roles, and we were horrible horrible at work-life balance, like horrible, like wasn't even a concept. And so we had a tendency to just grind ahead. Many of us were first generation. And so we just have this idea of forging ahead and then we're looking at the generations behind us and we're saying, well, why don't you just do the work that the way that we did it? But the way that we did it wasn't always as perfect either, right? Like we, my generation, I think opened up a lot of access to us, right? You know, and folks are calling us at 3 in the morning and 4, you know, and we are just forging right ahead. I'm really interested to see what new professionals need from us versus us trying to train them to be the way my generation saw it. And I think that the generations that follow us are just so amazing and so creative and really able to think about problems in a very different way. But if we keep beating them over the head saying, well, you're not doing it the way that I think you should do it, I think it's making them leave the profession. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:19:36]: Like, I think these generations are also very easy to just say, I don't have to do this, and, and, and will leave after a year or two. And what that means is there's a lot of talent that leaves the room. And leaves the space. And so I'm interested in this because I think at most college board level and president levels, I don't think they really recognize the crises that student affairs is in right now, just in terms of human capital and talent. And I think that has a large part to do with my generation just always being there, always being available. And I don't think they are thinking very deeply about the void that could be created coming behind. I also think I want the task force to focus on what are some kind of badging skills that we can present to new professionals. How do you deal with conflict? How do you deal with protest? How do you problem solve? How are you being a critical thinker? I envision maybe not the kind of new professional institute that I had when I came through, but something that's more real-time, more vibrant, where if I'm a supervisor that has a new professional that I don't think is really handling conflict well, they could go to some kind of workshop, virtual workshop, and almost get that skill set after, you know, 5 series or something. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:20:59]: I don't know what that looks like, but just some kind of way that new professionals can go or their bosses can send them to enhance whatever challenges they may be facing and, and do it in somewhere that's not necessarily, they gotta go and go to a conference, but something that's more accessible and that can really be more like a badging system, right? I think that's really, really important. Not a certificate, but just a badging. And you can choose that level of professional development as you go through your journey, your tenure. So that's what I'm thinking about in my head, but I really want the task force to pull together to give some good recommendations to our association. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:35]: I think our pod audience is more of that new to mid-level professional. And so I would imagine we have listeners who are really excited to hear that their voices might be able to be included in a project like this. Do we have any idea yet how I might be able to express interest in participating or ultimately apply for selection or something like that? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:21:53]: I'm gonna— I am meeting with some of the members at NASPA, so to begin to really talk about, so I don't have a definitive answer now, but we're meeting to, to really talk about the projects and the scope of the projects and what could be done. And I think what I would encourage is if I reach out to you as a new professional, 'cause you can't have a task force without new professionals on the task force. That will probably be what I can definitively say. I want to not have this task force just filled with senior and mid-levels who are going to provide direction. I really am looking for new professionals to serve on the task force as well. Now, the size of the task force, you're on a large task force, you can't get anything done, but it will be a good mix of new professionals on the task force. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:39]: And then your third arm is this inquiry into the new resurgence of interest for both HBCUs and for community colleges. Can you talk a little bit more about about what we're hoping to discover from this inquiry. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:22:50]: So what I want to see as an output of this is how our community colleges and members of HBCUs pulled even more deeply into the governance structures. And they each have roles on the board and the foundation board, right? You know, we have community college members on our board, but how are they really getting into the mainframe, the organizational structure of NASPA, besides just attending the conference? So sometimes I'll go to the conference and, you know, I'll see some of my colleagues I know very well, very talented, and they come to NASPA, they maybe do a presentation, but then they're not really in any of the governance structure. And I think that voice for community colleges, HBCUs is critically important. And so I wanna learn more deeply about how we are engaging them outside of just, you know, inviting them to the conference, right? What, what are the things that are needed for, from our association that helps to support them as they go through work that they're doing. And we're doing some work around that, like NASPA is definitely doing some work around this, but I wanna pull all of that together under a commission. And I think a commission really is charged with being very clear about that and what we need to do as an association to continue to support HBCUs and community colleges. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:09]: And kind of the same question here, if I'm currently working at a community college or an HBCU and this is piquing my interest, how do I express interest in being considered as a voice. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:24:19]: The one way that I can say the most is I am going to be looking for a co-chair, and I'm looking for the co-chair to be one from an HBCU and one from a community college. And so that would be the first thing that I reach out as looking for volunteers for that. And I have some idea around the community college. I know someone that's out there who is just really amazed. I worked with this person before. I won't put their name out there yet. I won't get ahead of myself. And then I have some ideas of some folks at HBCUs. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:24:49]: So for both of these initiatives, when I come a-calling, answer the call. That is probably what I could share the most. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:56]: Darryl, is there something that you would like the NASPA membership to know about you that is not on your resume, not in these initiatives? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:25:04]: I have 5 values that I think is critically important. I was actually doing a webinar. I was on a panel yesterday, a NASPA webinar with the Black Diaspora Knowledge Community. Community. So shout out to that. Shout out to Lisa and Miracle for pulling that together. And my colleagues, Dr. Younger, and for being on— serving on the panel. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:25:24]: My 5 values are knowledge, God, family, humility, and hard work. And those are the things that drive me every day, personally and professionally. And they're so intertwined for me. I don't distinguish between the 2. They all rely on one another. So much so that it's wrapped into like professional philosophy, which is good work stands. And I think for me, demonstrating good work is the culmination of all of these values working in sync. And I think it's so important to understand your value system because that really helps you to survive the times that we're in now. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:26:01]: When you hold your values, you know your values and they can help define who you are. It helps you to manage where higher ed is in this current space of new possibilities. I think it's critically important. For that. My husband and I just last week celebrated 32 years of union, and, and who would have known? We met in college, actually. I was a student at Georgia State and he was at Atlanta Metropolitan College. And so that has been phenomenal. Anybody that knows me knows I am a dad above everything. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:26:33]: So I have two wonderful boys, Obert and Delvin. They will be turning 16 in a few weeks. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:39]: Twins. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:26:39]: Twin boys, and so they are just learning to drive and doing all that. And for me, having children has just been an amazing opportunity and experience. And as an openly queer man, there was a time that I didn't think, you know, we would be able to have children, and now look at us, right? We have kids. And so it has been the joy of my life. I don't regret it one moment. I have some really phenomenal kids. They're getting getting ready to go on a— they're in the Junior ROTC and they're getting ready this weekend, hopefully if the weather holds, to go on this robotics tour. They're going through confirmation at church. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:27:16]: So I could talk all day long about my kids. Everybody knows that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:18]: Best wishes for the driving journey. You gotta be, I think, a parent made of steel to get through that one. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:27:24]: I— that's all of my hair fell out. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:25]: Well, Darryl, I'm gonna transition us because we're talking about values into our theme questions for the season, which are on the value of student affairs. So these are questions that we've been asking all of our guests over the course of the season, last season and this season. The first one is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:27:46]: What is important to me is that student affairs has to first understand that it has value. And I believe we've been spending too much time thinking, I'll be very honest, I think we often think we're second-class citizens in higher education, that we have this perception that other other aspects of the institution have more value. And so we've got to determine what that value is and how, more importantly, we articulate that value so that people not just continue to see us as problem solvers, but begin to really deeply see us as strategic thought partners. That's huge for me. And I don't think that our institutions always think of us as strategic thought partners. So I think knowing your value and what you bring to the table and being able to articulate what you bring to the table is very helpful. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:41]: Our second question, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:28:49]: I hate to refer to such a dark period, but I think the value of when we were seeing the most, I believe, strategic partners was during the pandemic. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:59]: Yeah, I hear you on that. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:29:01]: And I know that that was a bad time, but I think that presidents and boards really saw the work that we do and how strategically we do the work, that we are able to gather data, that we make data-driven decisions, that our decisions aren't just in a snapshot way or roughshod way, that we really are very intentional about what we do. And I think I think, you know, we probably got the most kudos during that time than, than anyone else. And I think during that time, people saw that the impact that we have as a profession on our students as they navigate the campus isn't just in the residence hall, it's in the classroom, it's in their extracurricular activities, it's in the co-curriculum design. And so I think that fortunate global pandemic really placed us centrally in the mission. I think it was one of the clearest times that student affairs is a central, uh, integral part of colleges and universities' mission. I think that was most, on a global perspective, was the most significant time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:11]: I feel like for all of us, time broke during the pandemic. And so I think we're also in a situation now where we are half a decade removed from that time, which means an entire generation of students removed from that time. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:30:26]: Absolutely. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:27]: So we've got some interesting work ahead of us on how we harnessed our value from then to apply it to now and to go forward, because the students we have now were in middle school during that era. So very, very different. And our final question in our theme is, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:30:48]: So this really builds upon what you were just saying, right? The pandemic was almost a decade away and our memories are short-lived and it was a traumatic dramatic time. And so people want to put a lot of that behind. So we can't keep celebrating, right? We were great in the pandemic, right? So I think the best way to be able to do that is how do we tell the narrative of the impact of our work that isn't as qualitative as we've always relied on? You know, we are, we are a belly kind of profession, right? We, it feels good in the belly, right? And so we make, you make these decisions. And I think I was talking about this with a colleague at coffee this morning. I think that when we come to our boards and sometimes, and when we come to our cabinet-level tables, I think people don't always recognize how strategic and deliberate we've had to make a decision, that we are really strategically thinking about a decision. It is just not how we feel about the decision, but it really is how we've analyzed whatever was the problem. So what we've got to figure out how to do is how we turn this language of student success and tie it to the work of student affairs. And the best way that we can do that is through the development of legitimate KPIs and legitimate return on investments. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:32:08]: And so if we are saying, if you participate in student Greek life, you're going to be a more well-rounded student, well, now we have to demonstrate that. And we have to do it in a way that is through trend and longitudinal data. We just can't keep keep coming to the boards and to our cabinets with this snapshot kind of, this is what happened this semester, this is what happened with this particular incident. We need to be talking about and demonstrating more ability to show longstanding data because that's truly what board of trustees are looking for. They don't want you to talk about, but they don't want you to just focus on what happened in that semester. They wanna know how has has that problem been impacted over the last 3 years, 5 years, 10 years? And so I am very proud to say at Spelman, we, I think, oh my God, I'm so excited about this. I think we're on the cutting edge of being able to manage and demonstrate that of student success. For the last 4 years, I've led my team through looking deeply at what I call student success pathways, which are community belonging and wellbeing. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:33:19]: And that simply means if a a strong sense of belonging, they come to a place, they feel valued. If they also come and they're able to connect with other folks that reinforce that value, and then if they are ultimately able to navigate the whole spectrum of holistic wellbeing, these are all things that we do every day and that we control. I'm hopeful to present next year with some data. I just hired a data analyst. I got good word today that he will be starting February 2nd. Yay. And we are about to do some phenomenal work. So I am excited. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:33:54]: I'm telling everyone, keep your eye on student affairs at Spelman College because we are gonna give you a pathway that I think will make our profession very successful. And I'm excited to do that. And I'm excited to be able to do that as a member of an HBCU community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:08]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:14]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. Just last week, you should have gotten an email if you are a current NASPA member inviting you to vote in the open volunteer leadership positions within the association. The email provided you with a custom link for your ballot, and it allows for you to be able to vote for any individual that is running for a volunteer leadership position, including the Board Chair position, Regional Leadership positions, positions and Knowledge Community leadership positions. Voting is open from February 5th to February 19th. All you have to do is, in that email, you can cast your ballot at any time by clicking on the link that states click here to cast your vote. I encourage you to review the candidate information as many times as you want to be able to get a better chance of understanding why people want to be in these leadership positions. This is a great opportunity for you to have your voice heard on who you want representing you in these volunteer leadership positions. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:19]: So have your voice heard today and make sure to vote. You can still attend the NASPA Annual Conference that's coming up March 7th through the 11th in Kansas City, Missouri. If you haven't registered yet, now is a great time to be able to join all of us attending in Kansas City, because I know Jill and I are really looking forward to being able to talk with all of you. As we mentioned in the opening episode for the season, we talked about the fact that we are going to be at the conference again, and we're going to have some specific questions that we'll be sharing with you in an upcoming episode so that you can think about it. Even if you can't attend, we'd love to have your voice connected with that specific— connected with those upcoming episodes. Again, the conference is March 7th through the 11th in Kansas City, and I hope that you'll be able to attend. If you see me walking around the conference, say hi. I would love to be able to meet people that listen and be able to hear some about your own experiences, not only with the podcast but just in general. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:20]: If you've not already heard about it, inside of the NASPA website is our NASPA Bookstore, and inside the NASPA Bookstore we have a ton of great books that have been written specifically for NASPA by NASPA members. And every once in a while, I love being able to share with you some of the different books that are out there. And one today that I'm going to share with you is called Dismantling Hazing in Greek Letter Organizations: Effective Practices for Prevention, Response, and Campus Engagement. This was written by and edited by Jason L. Merriweather and Associates. Dismantling Hazing in Greek Letter Organizations offers practical practical strategies to address the complexities of hazing culture and the challenges associated with recruitment and initiation in varying contexts. If you work with Greek letter organizations, this book is a must-read. So if you've never read this, I highly encourage you to pick up a copy for yourself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:17]: You can find it in the NASPA Bookstore. Earlier this month, a follow-up brief was presented by NASPA on the top issues in student affairs. In the most recent brief that was released, a new analysis from NASPA's 2025 Top Issues in Student Affairs survey came out, and in it, it showed a clear rise in the prioritization of issues in the area of assessment and evaluation to demonstrate impact and inform decision-making. 5 of the overall top-ranked issues for the 2025 survey data fall within this area, pointing to institutional commitments to strengthen capacities to collect and communicate data to tell a more complete story about student experiences. This follow-up brief highlights practitioner insights about next steps, state policy trends, and NASPA resources all related to strengthening assessment and evaluation efforts across institutions. If you've not read this brief yet, I highly encourage that you do. Go to the NASPA website, go under under Research and Publications and down to Reports and Issue Briefs. And you'll find the Top Issues in Student Affairs Assessment and Evaluation Follow-up Brief listed right there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:30]: Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association, because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:56]: Chris, thank you so much for kicking off this season with another great segment of NASPA World. We always appreciate you sharing with us what's going on in and around NASPA. And Daryl, we have reached our lightning round where I've got 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:12]: Okay. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:13]: You're ready. You're ready. All right, here we go. Question 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:19]: Ooh, They Not Like Us, Kendrick Lamar. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:21]: That Super Bowl halftime show was epic. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:23]: Epic. He's my favorite artist. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:26]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:30]: A pediatrician gynecologist. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:33]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:36]: I actually have what I call my ancestral mentor, which is Dr. Benjamin Elijah Mays. I love and follow his work and he's very influential. And then Laurie White has been phenomenal and Pam Whiteley have been just amazing people in my life. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:53]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:55]: That's a good question. Right now I'm reading this really great book called The Turning Point by this author named Howell, and it's essentially, it's talking about how civil civilizations reboot themselves every 100 years. And it's just a really great critical read at this time because I think we are rebooting into a new civilization, and it's really helping to guide me through. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:14]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:41:17]: Ooh, Abbott Elementary. Oh my God, that thing is hilarious. I love it. I try to catch it every Wednesday. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:22]: I took the WB studio tour a couple of years ago, and I got to go to the set, just like the exterior set. That was very cool. Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:41:33]: Okay, so I am a, a huge history nerd. And so there is this— it's actually out of Britain. It's this podcast that looks at the history of Europe. And I just finished listening to this really wonderful series on the rise of the Third Reich. That was just phenomenal. And so I'm really new to listening to podcasts, and I do it when I'm walking. I found that I can really lean in and glean information while also exercising. So yeah, that's my favorite right now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:04]: Finally, number 7, any shout-outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:42:08]: My goodness. Of course, my good brother, Michael Christakis. That's my dude. We banter a lot, and it's been such an honor and privilege to work with him. Emilia Purnell has just been phenomenal. I look forward to working with her. And then it's just beyond that, I'm going to get in trouble. And so it's just all of the people that have come into my life. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:42:27]: There is one person I do want to give a shout out to, my girlfriend, Donna Lee, because she is so universally grounded. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:35]: Grounded. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:42:35]: And every time I'm in her presence, I don't care how disturbed I can be, she really calms me. And I just really love her. So shout out to Donna. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:44]: Darryl, it's been wonderful to get to know you a little bit better and to hear more about your vision for where NASPA will be going in the '26-'27 year. If anyone would like to reach you after we air this episode, how can they find you? Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:42:55]: So you can find me on LinkedIn. I got off of Instagram, y'all. I couldn't take it. It was too much for me. Got tired of it, but I am definitely on LinkedIn and it's just real easy. Darrell Holloman. You can look me up and from there we can set up a time to talk or meet. Try to be very accessible. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:11]: Darrell, thank you so very much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:43:15]: Great. Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:20]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. Listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:42]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton— that's me— produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

2/13/26 • 44:16

Welcome to Season 14 of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," the essential podcast for higher education professionals eager to connect, learn, and grow! Hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis, this season dives deeper into the evolving value of student affairs, exploring both the challenges and opportunities shaping our profession right now. Right from the start, Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis highlight what's in store: an impressive lineup of guests from across student affairs, "mini grand" opportunities at the NASPA annual conference, updates on strategic planning, and in-depth conversations about how NASPA is moving forward as an organization. If you want to stay in the loop on what's really happening in the field—and hear voices from every corner—this is the podcast to keep on your playlist. Excitingly, the season kicks off with Dr. Darryl Holloman, the incoming NASPA Board Chair, who will discuss his inspiring "North Star Project" and vision for 2026-27. As Dr. Jill Creighton notes, this season is "quite a bit more NASPA as an organizational focus than we've had in [the past]," all while maintaining those meaningful interviews with practitioners you know and love. Longtime listeners will appreciate that the beloved theme—"the value of student affairs"—continues, now for the third time, as it transitions from fall to spring, building momentum and relevance as the profession evolves. Whether you're tuning in for insightful strategy, conference updates, or authentic practitioner stories, you'll find inspiration and practical takeaways in every episode. And if you're heading to the NASPA Annual Conference in Kansas City, don't miss your chance to share your voice—Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis will be on-site collecting mini-interviews! Join the conversation. Subscribe, listen, and become part of a passionate community shaping the future of student affairs. [Student Affairs Voices from the Field] is where your story matters—tune in and be heard! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:07]: Seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:12]: For higher education professionals wherever you happen to be. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:15]: This is season 14, continuing our conversation. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:18]: On the value of Student Affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. Sheher hers your Essay Voices from the Field Host Happy February, Chris Happy February. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:29]: Glad to be back in season 14. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:31]: It's 2026. We are just a couple of days from Super Bowl Sunday. As we're chatting today, I have a lifelong Seahawks fan, so it's hopefully going to be better matchup than the last time the Seahawks and the Patriots were in the super bowl together, but that remains to be seen. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:46]: You never know. And I think the Seahawks have a good chance because they have a good. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:51]: Team this year, knock on all sorts of wood. But here we are recording because we're really ready to talk about season 14. Season 14 is coming at you starting next Thursday, the 12th of February. Chris, what do we have in store for season 14? Wow. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:07]: We've got an amazing lineup of individuals from across the profession and we've got a number of really exciting things that we're gonna be talking about in regards to what's been happening in naspa. There's some specific conversations that we're gonna be having about strategic planning and some specific work group NASPA's been doing to really look at a number of different areas in the profession. We are going to be speaking with a number of different people at the conference this year and being able to bring their voices to all of you as well. There's some mini grand opportunities. There's a lot going on. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:41]: We're also kicking off our season with Dr. Darrell Holloman, who is the incoming NASPA Board Chair. We always love to feature the NASPA Board Chair as we head into our spring semesters. Can learn from Darrell on what he is hoping to do in his tenure as Board chair. Just a brief he's got a direction for us called the North Star Project, and I think you'll really enjoy listening to where the association is hoping to go in the 2627 year. I can't believe we're already saying 2627. I know we just started 2026, but we've also got a lot of things coming around in terms of how NASPA'S moving into the future. We've got our second year under Dr. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:16]: Parnell and her leadership as president, and I think NASPA's really starting to move and shake in some really interesting ways. So our season ahead is actually quite a bit more NASPA as an organizational focus than we've had in. But also we're gonna keep bringing you those rich dialogues with individual practitioners as we go along as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:34]: I'm really looking forward to this season. It should be an amazing season and I guess I'll put out a last call that, as we've said in the past, that if you have people that you wanna hear from in the future, send us an email savoicesaspa.org we would love to hear from you. We always love hearing from our listeners to be able to hear more about what you like, what you want more of, and to gain some perspective. So talk back to us. We'd love to hear more from you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:59]: We have a colleague who hosts a different higher ed podcast and she liked to say talk to us, we talk back. So I think that's very applicable here. And we are also only a couple weeks away from Annual Conference in Kansas City, Missouri. Like previous years, Chris and I will be at the Annual conference collecting small interviews and hoping to feature your voices on questions related to the conference themes. So we will be moving about the conference with our mini recorders and hopefully if you find us, you'd be willing to share your voice. We'd love to feature you. We with all of that in mind, season 14 is going to be bringing another set of episodes that are focused on the value of student affairs. We loved that theme for the fall. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:37]: This will be our third time moving forward with a theme from fall to spring and we've heard that is a great format that you all as listeners are enjoying. So we're excited to keep it going forward. Chris, anything else on season 14? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:49]: No, just excited Excited to share this great season with you all and we're looking forward to a continuing with the amazing guests, but also the amazing conversations and continuing the dialogue of moving our profession forward once again. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:03]: We're planning to drop our first episode on Thursday, February 12th right in this feed. The Essay Voices from the Field feed on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, whatever podcast player you might have on your Android phone or you can also find us right on the NASPA website if you just look for Essay Voices or NASPA Podcast. We thank you so much for spending your time with us and we're so happy to bring you another great season. We will see you on the 12th. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:32]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:43]: If you'd like to reach the show. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:44]: You can email us@savoicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:12]: That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

2/5/26 • 05:30

How do public policies shape the work of student affairs professionals in higher education? This week on NASPA's Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast, we explore just that. This week host Dr. Jill Creighton is joined by two seasoned experts: Diana Ali, Director of Policy Research and Advocacy at NASPA, and Dr. James Tyger, Assistant Vice President for Student Life at the University of Florida and Chair of NASPA's Public Policy Division. This episode dives deep into the complex regulatory and legislative landscape affecting campuses today. Throughout the conversation, Diana and Dr. James Tyger illuminate why public policy should matter—not just for policy "nerds," but for every student affairs professional. Policy changes at state and federal levels often create a ripple effect, touching everything from compliance to student success initiatives. No matter your role, these shifts impact your work and the students you serve. Key themes in the episode include: Major Policy Shifts: The guests detail dramatic changes in the Department of Education, including workforce reductions, agency restructuring, and the transfer of $33 billion in programs to other government agencies. These developments raise concerns about capacity and continuity in supporting states and institutions. Guidance and Compliance: With new Title VI and Title IX guidance, institutions must navigate both federal directives and state laws, especially regarding DEI and free speech. The episode tackles the resulting confusion and litigation, urging professionals to understand the difference between enforceable legal requirements and advisory guidance. The Value of Staying Informed: Listeners learn about the rich resources provided by NASPA's Public Policy Division, like the Policy Resource Hub, real-time legislative tracking, and regular webinars—tools designed to empower professionals to stay current and make informed choices. The hosts stress that while change can be daunting, student affairs remains crucial to supporting students and fostering vibrant campus communities. The takeaway? Tune in to this episode for practical advice on adapting to policy changes, sharing your impact, and remaining grounded in your mission—even as the regulatory landscape evolves. Whether you're navigating new DEI laws, Title IX updates, or simply want to be more proactive in your advocacy, this episode provides clarity, actionable strategies, and a renewed sense of purpose. Click play and join the conversation—your students' success depends on it! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices, we're bringing you a public policy conversation with two of our leaders from the Public Policy Division here at naspa. Our first guest is Diana Ali, who is currently the Director of Policy Research and Advocacy at naspa. Diana provides timely analysis of emerging policy issues at state and federal levels, creates tools for student affairs professionals to understand and respond to these issues, and organizes and supports NASPA advocacy and civic engagement efforts. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:52]: Since moving to the area, Diana has been a non profit advocate and is currently a mental health group facility in the Chicagoland community. She served as an AmeriCorps volunteer for two years and graduated with a Master's in Social Work and a Master's in Public Policy from the University of Chicago. Our Second guest is Dr. James Tyger, JD, who is the Assistant Vice President for Student Life at the University of Florida. With over 10 years of experience in Student Affairs, James is passionate about creating inclusive and supportive campus communities that empower students to thrive. Currently serving in the AVP role for Student Life at uf, James oversees the Student Engagement Team made up of the Offices of Campus Engagement, Community and Belonging, Sorority and Fraternity Life, and Student Legal Services. He's a proud double gator, having earned both a Ph.D. in higher education administration and a J.D. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:37]: from the University of Florida Levin College of Law. He also holds a Master of Education from Vanderbilt University and a Bachelor of Science in Human Resources Management from Virginia Tech. In addition to his role at uf, James is currently the Director for the Public Policy Division here at naspa, as well as serving on the Virginia Tech Student Affairs Advisory Council. Welcome to the podcast, James. Dr. James Tyger [00:01:58]: How are we doing? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:58]: And hello Diana. Glad to have you. Diana Ali [00:02:00]: Hey everyone. Happy to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: This is our Public Policy episode as we're talking about the value of student affairs. We thought it was really important to continue to include that policy perspective in the student affairs conversation because there's so many shifts happening right now. We've done a specialty episode earlier this season on the OB3 impacts on federal financial aid for undergraduate and graduate students, but today I'm excited to bring you our current Chair of the NASPA Public Policy Division as well as our Director of Policy Advocacy and Research so that we can have a more broad based discussion about what's going on in the policy world affecting U.S. american higher education, and possibly by extension, other higher education industries across the world. So before we get into all of that though, we love to ask the question, how did you get to your current seat? Dr. James Tyger [00:02:51]: Great question. Thanks for asking. I actually had an opportunity to get involved with NASPA Region 3. And so for over four years, I served as the Region 3 representative on the Public Policy Division and Region 3, of course, across the Southeast. So a lot of areas to reflect on in the public policy space. So really enjoyed that opportunity and to get to know folks and then eventually had the ability to move up and be the chair for the Public Policy Division for all of naspa. Diana Ali [00:03:17]: Yeah, and I got a role at Naspa going on 10 years ago now when I was coming right out of grad school and I really wanted to get involved in the world of higher education. I hadn't worked in that landscape before. My background was more in community based work. But it was really interesting to me because the world of student affairs, I think combines issues related to social work, which is a background that I have, and also issues related to student success and wellbeing, which are both important to me. So ever since I've kind of like grown within the organization. NASPA is a really great organization for being able to like, pursue your interests and do what you like. And so my portfolio has really grown since I started. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:02]: Both of you have been involved with the Public Policy Division for many, many years now. That's how we all connected in the first place. And I'd love for you all to be able to share with our NASPA listeners, what is the difference between a division and a knowledge community? And what is the PPD all about? Diana Ali [00:04:18]: So the difference between our divisions and our knowledge communities. And this has changed over the years, but one of the key differences is that our division chairs, that's James, has a seat on our NASPA board. So James has a say at our spring and winter board meetings. And that's a really important role. The caseies are obviously really important as well, but since we have so many of them, these are knowledge communities. So like subject matter experts in a certain area have much broader lens of what's going on within the association. And so there aren't a ton of differences between these groups. But I would say that representation on the board is a big one. Diana Ali [00:05:07]: Though the Casey's do have representation on the board as well, just not every Casey director is represented. Dr. James Tyger [00:05:14]: Yeah, and I think what I would Add to that, I think if we I had the opportunity to be the student government knowledge community co chair a few years back, and I think each of the knowledge communities have such a great opportunity to help build community. But when I think about the role of a division, it's more broad across the association, as opposed to many of our knowledge communities provide again, very specific communities, goals and different things that we're advocating for within the association. And so I think for the Public Policy Division more broadly, it's thinking through the entire state of our public policy arena. And so when we talk about what the PPD does, you know, we have representatives from each of the regions. We have, you know, folks that are both at large and also focused on, you know, let's say faculty or our small colleges as well, and thinking through the different impacts of policy across each of those areas. And so at some of the things that we're doing that I will share, you know, we're hoping to see folks at the annual conference. We'll have some different programmatic pieces, whether it be our town hall, our sponsors, sessions, opportunities just to get involved and hear more about what's going on across again, the state of higher education within the US and international. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:15]: So policy precon coming up, too. Dr. James Tyger [00:06:17]: Yes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:17]: All right, so let's dig into it. When we think about the Public Policy Division, what are we focusing on right now on behalf of NASPA members? Dr. James Tyger [00:06:24]: I think the biggest thing that we're taking a look at is how do we keep our members educated and up to date on the different policy shifts that are occurring across the country and beyond at this point. So, you know, I think how are we encouraging folks to utilize the resources that NASPA provides? How are we providing webinars? We have one actually coming up this week, kind of a year in review, a state of kind of where we're at. And so I think those pieces, for me, how are we helping to educate folks to have the resources to know what's going on and then to make some choices about things that they maybe want to advocate for within, wherever they're positioned. Diana Ali [00:06:57]: Yeah. And I would just add on to that that I think a key role of the Public Policy Division has been for a long time. And I think it's just as necessary in our current moment has been to really break down the mean behind public policy, focusing on foundational building blocks of, like, what public policy is. They've recently added this, like, policy 101 primer to all of the monthly newsletters, and this past one focused on the rulemaking process. Which I think is really important right now because those building blocks really help bring us toward clarity, which is something I'm always striving for. As we navigate the current landscape, we're. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:41]: Working to meet the moment. There are some brand new resources that are coming out for NASPA members. Some of them are incredibly rich with information. Some of them are going to be those primers. But why should public policy matter to the average student affairs professional who maybe isn't as nerdy about policy as the three of us are, or maybe just doesn't see policy intersect with their day to day work as much? Diana Ali [00:08:05]: So I would say, and I've been thinking about this a lot as kind of we're in this cycle near the end of the year. I know it's January now, but as we're recording this, it's December. And I've been thinking a lot about kind of how we move forward. And I feel like this past year, I mean all of the shifts on the federal and state level really do impact student affairs folks at every level on the ground. And so I think even if somebody may not be feeling like their work is directly impacted by these like shifts in compliance or like funding changes or H R1 that you mentioned earlier, I think that we are going to see a trickle down effect where folks roles are going to be impacted no matter what kind of by these really drastic changes that we're seeing. And I also think that we can think about public policy in a lot of different ways. And so a daily interaction, interaction with students on the ground may not seem related to federal or state legislation, but it likely is. And so I think breaking things down, talking about definitions, like I was saying, that primer that's been added to the newsletter, sort of building apart the mythos around policies and processes, can help folks think more about policies as tools to get somewhere and a form of agency, which I think is really helpful. Dr. James Tyger [00:09:42]: I mean, my response, Joe, would be that public policy is legitimately involved in every single aspect of what we do, no matter what level you're at. And that goes to how are we helping our students understand different policies, updates, loans, you know, what does it mean for us regarding things we can do, can't do, should do based on what we're hearing on the public policy front at the state, local, federal level. And so I think it really isn't every aspect of the higher education experience right now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:05]: Let's run through the opportunities that NASA is providing currently for members to access policy resources. What do we got? Dr. James Tyger [00:10:12]: Oh, we absolutely have the Public policy, the Resource Hub. Diana, do you want to talk a little bit about some of the opportunities that are in there? Diana Ali [00:10:18]: Sure. So there are eight different components within the Policy Resource Hub. And so as part of my job I do a lot of state tracking. And so we have a whole section that is all of the legislation that we track. We have actually tracked 375 enacted bills over this past year relating to higher higher education. Those are broken down by region. So if you want to see what's going on in your region, you can look at all of the state based legislation in your region on the website and those are updated in real time. So that's a really great resource. Diana Ali [00:10:52]: We also provide a bi weekly policy update. It's like a newsletter that really just gives a breakdown of what we think is most relevant to the profession of student affairs. And then we have a lot of kind of public policy resource essentials. We have recordings of our past webinar. We have some of those primer information that I was speaking to earlier relating to policy processes and all of the executive orders that we've seen brought forward earlier this year and so forth. And so there's a lot in there. We also have information divided both like as I mentioned, by state and then also by topic area. And so you have a lot of different ways to engage with the information based on your needs. Diana Ali [00:11:39]: I really do encourage folks to check that out. Is kind of like a comprehensive resource your go to when you need it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:47]: And you can access that by logging into the NASPA member section of the NASPA website. It is behind that login wall. So if you're not yet a member and you're thinking about joining and this resource sounds exciting to you, this is a great reason to go ahead and come on into the NASA space. Let's think about public policy in 2025 as you might from like a Spotify wrapped perspective. The rap are all just coming out right now. As Diana mentioned, we're recording in December. We know you're not hearing this till January, but what are we looking at? We've got 375 tracked bills, but what else would go in our federal policy wrapped for this year? Dr. James Tyger [00:12:21]: I think on my end the number one thing is certainly Department of Education that's very much in flux. So thinking about the workforce reductions, the different interagency agreements and some of the restructuring, we're seeing within the Department of Education what that means for really higher ed in general, but the overall state of education and kind of where those pieces will be. And so I think we're still waiting to see. I mean, I know we had an update within the last week or so that they're going to be hiring some folks back into OCR on a temporary basis and so seeing kind of what that impact will mean for some of the backlog and the priorities with the department. But I think those are definitely things we'll continue to be tracking into 2026 to try to figure out what impacts that will have on the overall field. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:57]: So I'm going to call that one department in flux and at least four other departments with interagency agreements. Diana Ali [00:13:03]: Yeah. And I think that we can dig a little bit more into. I'm happy to talk a little bit more about some of the potential impacts that we' thinking about in relation to those interagency agreements that were the six that were just recently announced. And I think in a kind of wrapped review, I think I would be remiss if I didn't mention all of the guidance that has been brought forward around Title 6 impacting also Title 9. And so the kind of scrambled that institutions have had to make or have been trying to weigh how to make decisions around over the past year in relation to these guidance documents that have been coming out holding the precedent of federal level precedent, if not the law that folks have been trying to adjust to and think about how to implement and then the corresponding litigation that we've seen. Basically we've seen litigation around almost every executive order that came down earlier this year and throughout the year in relation to higher education. So we're seeing a lot of back and forth confusion around what will remain in place. And then we've also seen some redirecting in terms of funding. Diana Ali [00:14:22]: Like we saw a redirecting of funds related to our msis this fall and we've seen some redirecting of funds for FIPSI and we've seen some delays in funding for TRIO programs. And so as we move into the new year of I'm thinking about what cuts have had to be made on the ground as folks have had to respond in real time, even if funding has eventually been dispersed, what kind of changes folks have had to actually make in response to those immediate delays and so forth. And so I feel like I'm painting a really negative perspective. But I think that in pairing it back to like how do we find clarity in this moment, I think it is important to like look back and see kind of the path of change that we've seen this past year. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:14]: Let's take those one at a time because there's a lot in there that I think our members can benefit from getting a little bit more detailed on. Let's start with the department and the transition of some of the functions of the Department of Education into other federal agencies. What's going on there? Diana Ali [00:15:29]: So back in July, we saw, you know, and this has had impacts to our community college programs, which are connected to career and technical education, we saw a transference of CTE and adult workforce programs to the Department of Labor since then. And Secretary McMahon has kind of referred to that first interagency agreement, transferring CTE as the pilot interagency agreement. Since then, we've seen an introduction of six additional interagency agreements that are transferring $33 billion from the Department of Education to other agencies, the Department of Labor, the Department of the Interior, Health and Human Services, and the Department State. And so for all of like I said before, as with many executive actions over this past year, these IaaS are likely to and are in cases currently wrapped up in litigation. And so we don't know what will ultimately go into effect. In just looking at that first one that went into effect in July, moving CTE to Department of Labor, some of the main concerns that we've been thinking about has been one, a capacity issue. And so even just looking at the size of the portfolio of the Department of Education, the Department of Education makes up close to $190 billion. The Department of Labor, in turn, is only sized at about $8.68 billion. Diana Ali [00:17:00]: And so moving these programs. So one of the IAAs that came out is moving close to $3 billion of post secondary into the Department of Labor, which is, as I said, sized at $8.68 billion. So there's a potential capacity issue there of moving this large of a portfolio into the Department of Labor. Does the Department of Labor actually have the capacity to successfully administer these programs and these grants? Another potential concern is related to the ability for these federal agencies to provide the technical assistance that the Department of Education has been provid Two states focus a lot on state legislation and state policy. Does the Department of Labor have the ability, the subject matter expertise, even though they are working with the Department of Education? But we know the Department of Education is now one third of the size that it was at the beginning of this year due to these recent reductions in force. And I could go on about this for a long time, but I've been looking a lot at this first example, this first interagency agreement, sort of as the example of what we might see. And we still have a Lot to learn. One of the potential gaps that we can see in something like this is a fracturing of where information is housed. Diana Ali [00:18:25]: Federal agencies have historically provided consults and technical expertise to state lawmakers to help folks adjust and build funding formulas for the upcoming year. And so we're going to see potentially a trickle down effect of how this lack of technical assistance from the federal level could impact the formulation of state policies on the ground. And that in turn, I think will definitely impact our institutions and students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:56]: Technical assistance piece, I think is really critical because I know when we were really focused on Title IX as the most prominent federal issue and clery compliance, the technical phone calls that institutions were making were extremely helpful to get clarity from regional OCR offices or other regional federal department offices where you could actually pick up the phone and, and maybe talk to a federal professional or also just form a longer standing kind of professional relationship with a professional in those agencies. And I'm aware that a lot of those relationships have shifted for the last year because people have moved on with different jobs. So that's definitely a real impact. James, any commentary on this? Dr. James Tyger [00:19:36]: Yeah, I just want to acknowledge, I think, just the different philosophical shifts that this administration is kind of bringing as they approach this. And so, you know, what you're seeing is really this belief that there should be a shrinking of federal oversight in the education space. So, you know, whether that means you put things more back towards the states or whether you ship things into the private sector, but really a belief that there should be less federal regulation. And so, you know, I think as we kind of see some of these shifts, while they may be surprising when we think about decades worth of maybe the way that we've interacted within the education arena at the federal level, I don't know that necessarily. Philosophically, this was a surprising shift for many of us that are tracking what we might expect from this administration, their priorities, and they've been very public in kind of framing their priorities and that belief that they really do want to shrink the size and the footprint within the Department of Education. And so I think this is kind of the realization of that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:28]: Let's move on to the new guidance letters that came out around Title 6 and Title 9. For those who haven't been tracking them as closely, what are the big highlights of what was changed or newly introduced? Diana Ali [00:20:40]: So the guidance letters impacting Title 6. There was a guidance letter that came out in the spring connected to diversity, equity and inclusion and detailing what categories counts as DEI and how that would in turn count as a violation of Title six. And then that came out through the Department of Education. There was another one that came out this past summer through the Department of Justice, which further clarified and created potentially additional restrictions that was detailing that anything used as a kind of race proxy, as it was defined, would also constitute a violation of Title six. And so this could ultimately lead to institutions in losing their federal education funding. But what has been important as these guidance documents have come forward has been that we've clarified these are guidance documents only. And so these are an interpretation of the law. And these don't hold the full effect of the law necessarily, though institutions have obviously had to consult with their legal teams and make decisions. Diana Ali [00:22:00]: I think, as I was saying, about how to interpret these guidance documents and what to do. And this is on top of a good handful of states having already enacted legislation that would restrict DEI related programs on campuses since 2022. And so we know that this has had huge impacts for the world of student affairs, had impacts rel to how jobs are being structured, but then also how we're even thinking about the work of student success. And so I think that we're going to continue to think about and analyze those impacts down the line. And I'm really curious to hear about your thoughts on these as well, James. Dr. James Tyger [00:22:48]: Yeah, you know, I think the title VI guidance, when it came out in particular, I think at recent count we have 29 states that have passed some form of anti DEI legislation. And so for many of our states, this isn't necessarily new guidance, but I do think for some that certainly expanded the scope of who it may apply to. And so I think a lot of folks had a lot of questions. You know, I think one of the things immediately that came up was some of the guidance around first gen and kind of the perception if folks were fronting or hiding behind, let's say, a first gen banner and what does that mean related to the guidance? And so I think it really created a lot of space where folks need to take a step back and think through what does this guidance mean while it is is guidance not necessarily the law? I do think you you get in some questions around what happens if they do freeze federal funds while you're under investigation for something that may be tied into some of that guidance. And so I think it certainly has created a lot of concern for folks that maybe weren't in a place that they were one of those states already navigating this. And so I think for me, those are the pieces. I also think the tension still does exist between Title 6 and the First Amendment. And so thinking about kind of what that looks like as we work our way through some of the situations that may be concerning and very hard for administrators and many of our members to really navigate on the today, we know. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:00]: That some of our Public Policy Division members are already in those states that have had these laws passed for a couple of years. And then we have many, many professionals who are facing this new type of compliance for the first time. Any advice for people that are looking at this type of legislation and going, okay, we're going to have to change the way that we practice? Dr. James Tyger [00:24:17]: I mean, I think the number one thing that we've really had to evaluate is at the end of the day, you need to be in compliance with the law. And so I think for us in Florida, that law has been very clear. And so, so making sure that we understand what we need to do to be in alignment with the expectations from the state are things that we've had to do. And so I do think for wherever you're positioned, it's really challenging and some folks are going to want to maybe do things that aren't in alignment with that legal requirement. And so I think they really need to take some time to reflect on that piece. But I think there is a big difference though, between the legal requirement and again, let's say, the guidance. And so as folks on their campuses may not have the legal guidance, but only are the legal implication, but only the guidance, they can really take a step to think through. Okay, well, what do we want to do if it's in a gray space? So I think that would be the number one thing, though. Dr. James Tyger [00:25:01]: But really reflecting, make sure you're in compliance with what's required from your state. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:04]: Let's go to that Title 9 guidance. What do we have there that might be new or maybe changing the way that we've implemented Title ix? And we know that this has been forever changing since at least I think, 2001. Diana Ali [00:25:16]: Well, and when I said guidance, I think really what we've seen has been a rollback of Title IX. So we have our prior Title 9 rule from 2020 that's currently in place. The rule that was in 2024 has been rolled back through litigation and also through executive action. And then we've also seen this Special Investigations Task Force on Title nine that been put together on the federal level. And I think when I'm thinking About both Title 6 and Title IX, I'm thinking about how we've had, as James has spoken to these federal level investigations as targeting that has been somewhat confusing around what actually counts as a violation of something. And so I think it's more when I think of Title IX right now I'm thinking about the work of that task force and the freezing of funds of certain institutions that are perceived to be in violation of Title ix. And I'm also thinking about our upcoming Supreme Court term in which we'll see some cases that will be argued and hopefully decided by June relating to the Equal Protection Clause and, and a Title nine as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:32]: We've talked about some of these federal things. Let's talk about the states as well, any states, as you track, some of these bills that stand out as kind of being higher in terms of their level of legislative actions related to higher education or ones that maybe are more dormant. Diana Ali [00:26:47]: So one thing that I'll touch on, I was thinking about this as James was detailing some of the institutional perspective related to that Title 6 compliance, is that we've seen a number of states in the past several years enact legislation, sometimes as a part of their kind of comprehensive DEI related legislation. We've seen states enact legislation requiring certain levels of intellectual diversity and free speech to become a requirement of the campus experience. And so Iowa, for example, has passed legislation requiring the creation of a center on intellectual diversity. And so I think that is, that is an issue that I want to raise because there's sort of a countervailance or there's, there's some confusion that I've heard from members around this need to change or end programs relating to dei, but then also to build these programs related to speech and dialogue and confusion about why they're being these issues are being kind of paired together. I think that one great resource that we have at NASPA is work that we've done in creating issue guides for deliberative dialogue. We actually have one on navigating free speech. And I know that, you know, that's just one tool that doesn't help with the creation of an entire program or center. But there are tons of organizations out there focused on dialogue and deliberation and civic engagement and civilization. Diana Ali [00:28:27]: So I think that if folks are looking for resources and are tasked with creating those programs, that the resources are certainly out there. Dr. James Tyger [00:28:35]: And Jill, I'll say, you know, specifically, I think Florida and Texas are two states that are kind of at the forefront of some of the shifts in the higher education arena. And I think a lot of our colleagues in different states are kind of looking and benchmarking off what those states are doing. And, you know, I think it's, it's easy to think like, oh, that's whatever state, and they're working through whatever just for their own state. But the reality is these different governments and states are going to be benchmarking off each other and things that they think are impactful and making a difference, and then they're going to wind up showing up in other states as well. And so I think for me, I continue to kind of track what Florida and Texas are doing and seeing kind of what that means as it ripples out into some other spaces as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:13]: James, great point that we're seeing a lot of activity coming out of Florida and Texas. For our colleagues in Texas, we believe that you're entering a non legislative year, so you have a year to focus more on what we see coming out of Florida and other states that might get more active. But Texas state legislature doesn't meet again until 2027. So they've got a lot of time to create and watch, observe and make changes. So we'll see what happens. We've talked a lot about these changes. And one thing that I've been trying to be cognizant of is that just because it's changing doesn't necessarily mean it's negative for higher education. And I think that's an important space for all of our minds to occupy. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:50]: We're going to have to work differently, but that doesn't necessarily mean that our mission changes. We're still supporting students. We're still creating the engagement and vibrancy in our campuses on an everyday sort of basis. So thinking about that, how can our professionals stay engaged with public policy and then also maintain the mission that we're doing on our campus, I think continuing. Dr. James Tyger [00:30:11]: To find opportunities to stay up to date on what's going on and I think also to see what are the areas of interest from the policy decision makers. So if we hear things like experiential learning and skills based on based education and the way we are contributing that are really important, well, those are things that student affairs folks do a tremendous job with. So how do we find, you know, ourselves better aligned with the areas of priority and still understand the value and community and the other things we do within our work? I think that's an area my team and I have really been focused on. But I think as a profession, we can do a really great job and being educated on the things that folks are prioritizing and again, how we align with that. Diana Ali [00:30:49]: Yeah, and I think that as I mentioned earlier, while we're in, in this space, of ambiguity. I continue to go back in my work of looking and grounding myself in what we do know. And so I think staying abreast of the current time in the policy process that we're in, as you mentioned, Jill, knowing whether or not our state is in session, connecting with a national association like NASPA or many of the others that take part in state based or in local policy advocacy work and also at the federal level, you know, staying open to kind of where we are in the process. So even though we're super delayed in Having finalized our FY20 appropriations, we can, you know, think about the expected timeline. We're coming into January now, and so we're going to see our presidential State of the Union, we're going to see our presidential budget proposal, we're going to see some regulatory movement. And so just staying grounded in the timeline and the cycle and the moment we are in the policy making process I think helps bring me clarity and helps me stay engaged and plugged in. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:07]: Let'S get into our theme questions for the season. We've been asking all of our guests the same three questions on the value of student affairs. And our first question is when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? Dr. James Tyger [00:32:20]: I think for me it's our impact on the student experience. I think that's been a constant throughout all of this. And I alluded to this a bit previously, but thinking about how are we aligned in experiential learning, how are we aligned with the skill development? These are things we've always been in alignment with as a field, often struggle on how do we effectively tell our story and now more than ever we have to be more effective and how do we convey the key things we've always been as not just an extra, but we are an essential part of a student's experience and their education and ultimately helping them to holistically develop into the effective graduates and successful alumni that we know we have an obligation to help with. And so I think for me, that's the part that I keep coming back to as I think about our value in this era. It's more how do we really lean in to those aspects where these expectations are, in particular regarding some of the different skills and holistic development that we've always been really critical in. Diana Ali [00:33:14]: I love that response, James. And I'm thinking a lot about a recent NASPA report that came out on the humanization of student affairs. And at the beginning of the report, authors define the distinction between value and worth, indicating that worth is where we see that learning component. And while his value might point directly to those ROIs on credentials. And I think that student affairs professionals really contribute to that worth of higher education, like James said, like contributing to the holistic student experience, which actually is what helps an individual stay plugged in throughout their lifetime within the workforce. And so I think in my experience, my 10 years at NASPA, I've seen time and time and time again as how student affairs professionals are truly the ones operationalizing policies on the ground because they're hearing those stories directly from students. So when I think of the value of student affairs, I think of the thousands, dozens of NASPA members that I've interacted with over the years and heard their stories of how they've supported students throughout their college process, moving toward graduation. And I think that those moments and those interactions, you know, stick with students. Diana Ali [00:34:37]: And so that worth element is really important here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:40]: And you referenced recent NASPA report, and that report was the Human Dimension of why Student Affairs Matters, co authored by Dr. Ana Gonzalez, Dr. Lori Reaser, and Dr. Michelle Murray. If you want to learn more about that report and how to utilize its resources, you can find that on the NASA website. But also from our December 4th podcast episode, it was a really, really rich one. I loved that one. Our second question is, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? Dr. James Tyger [00:35:06]: I have two things to come to mind as I think about that question. The first is going to be, I always think about the moments with our students who are truly struggling, whether that be with mental health or they got injured or, you know, they're navigating a death in the family, think, those are always the moments that I feel. Our field, we have folks that really step up and help our students to navigate through those really challenging moments, but to really help them to grow the resilience needed and have what they're going to need to be successful in navigating things like that that pop up throughout their lives. But the other side of that is we just had the NASA board meeting in Washington, D.C. and I got a chance once we wrapped that, to meet with a few of our alumni that I have not seen in a minute. And when I think about the power of community and the power of relationships that we are able to over our careers and the impact of this experience, seeing those alumni and what they're able to do and how they remain connected to our institution and to the folks that they work with in student affairs, I think really speaks to the Value we bring in those long term relationships with folks. And so I think those are the two pieces. It's that help with our students that are really struggling. Dr. James Tyger [00:36:09]: But then those long term relationship pieces I think are both really critical. Diana Ali [00:36:13]: Yeah. And I would say that kind of similar to my answer to your last question, I think that it's the specific stories that I've heard over the years, talking to folks at our various conferences and through focus groups and so forth. I'm just always so surprised at the lengths that professionals will go to truly understand the needs of a student. The very like nuanced particular individual needs and work within the administrative system to connect that student to the services that they need. And so that connection piece, that on the ground connection piece has really been where I've seen it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:53]: And our final question in our theme for the season, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? Dr. James Tyger [00:37:02]: I talked about this a little bit ago, but I think we really need to be able to show our impact in language that resonates with our decision makers. And so that's kind of, to me, intertwined with our storytelling. How do we proactively tell the story of our impact and how we are aligned with career readiness, we're aligned with retention, we're aligned with overall wellness and creating a sense of belonging, community for our students and helping them develop the skills they need to be able to replicate that once they graduate as well. Because I think so often our field is known as, oh, there's a problem. Okay, we are problem solvers, but they don't always hear the positive stories and the other pieces that we're doing and making an impact on every single day on our campuses and especially on the skill side of things. And so I think kind of reclaiming that narrative a bit and thinking through how we also make sure that it's not just a bonus extra, like we're not just here creating fun little events. But there's really important, important work that our students need to be those holistic, well rounded individuals that are going to be successful alumni and successful employed graduates once they are no longer with us. Diana Ali [00:38:08]: Yeah, I completely agree. I want to say ditto to James Tyger's answer to that question. I think that, you know, student affairs needs to contribute to the data story. Those stories, those interactions with students are all data points that to build systems around to share up through to policymakers. And I think that we can always be better at that, at sharing the data, especially when we're in this moment where some of the story may becoming lost or fractured and so forth at the federal level and so those of us on the ground that can do something, this is really a great, great time to do that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:56]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:01]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA this spring. In the Learning portal for naspa, there is a new certificate that you can take part in. The Informal Resolutions Certificate, which is happening in spring 2026 will happen between February 2 and March 6 of 20202026 Title IX regulations require training for Title IX coordinators, investigators and decision makers Campuses are already implementing a wide variety of informal processes and it's vital that institutions provide proper training to use informal systems in Title IX matters. This eight hour training includes three asynchronous video modules and one four hour live synchronous session in which participants will engage in informal resolution practices, practice sessions, and realistic scenarios to develop core informal resolution skills. Attendance during the live session is mandatory for completion. Some questions that this training considers includes how should campuses ensure fair processes for both parties when utilizing informal resolution in Title IX cases? Who should be responsible for conducting informal resolution options and what skills do these persons personnel need? What options do institutions have to deliver informal resolutions? What are the potential benefits and challenges of different forms of informal resolution and what are the promising practices and practices to avoid? Join Peter Lake and Christine Goodwin to explore these and other issues related to conducting informal resolution in Title IX cases. Peter Lake is a higher education law and policy expert and a past professor of alternative dispute resolution. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:43]: Christine Goodwin is a former higher education administrator and trained mediator to explore these and other issues. This eight hour training includes three asynchronous video modules and one four hour live required synchronous session. Participants will participate in informal resolution practice sessions with realistic scenarios to develop core informal resolution skills. You can find out more by going to the NASA NASPA website@learning.naspa.org In case you missed it Back in November, NASPA released a 2025 Top Issues in Student Affairs Follow Up Brief on Technology and Digital Innovation. Technology is rapidly transforming higher education, bringing both new opportunities and complex challenges for student affairs leaders. This new brief expands on the Technology and Digital Innovation section of the 2025 Topics Issues in Student affairs report, offering insights from VPSAs on navigating AI, cybersecurity, and digital ethics. Explore field examples and actionable strategies to strengthen digital fluency, data protection and cross campus collaboration in this powerful new brief. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:56]: Have you had a chance to check out the newest issue of the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice? The vision of the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice is to publish the most rigorous, relevant and well respected research and practice, making a difference in student affairs practice. JSARP especially encourages manuscripts that are unconventional in nature and that engage in methodological and epistemological extensions that transcend the boundaries of traditional research inquiries. The latest issue looks at a number of different issues as you look look at issues such as Title 9, Racial Battle Fatigue among Black College Students, Student Affairs Attrition, the Invisible Middle Latino Men in Higher Education, and more. This journal, along with all of the journals within NASPA are free for NASPA members and you can access any of them at any time by going to the NASPA website and clicking on Publications. I highly encourage you to check these out because all of them will provide you with cutting edge research and updates on new things that you need to be aware of in the work that you're doing on a daily basis. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the Association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:33]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might align for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the Association. Because through doing that all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:27]: Chris, thank you so much for bringing us back into 2026 with an incredible NASPA World segment. We really appreciate you continuing to keep us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA and James and Diana. We have reached our lightning round. So I've got seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are we ready to do this? Dr. James Tyger [00:44:46]: Let's do it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:47]: All right, question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. James Tyger [00:44:51]: Oh, my gosh. This would be very hard for me because I am not that kind of high energy, but I'm gonna go with golden from K Pop Demon Hunters. Diana Ali [00:44:58]: That is perfect. I'm gonna go with the same answer I've been saying for entrance music for years, which is Kiss from a Rose by Seal. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:05]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. James Tyger [00:45:08]: An astronaut. Diana Ali [00:45:09]: Why not author? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:10]: I just learned that you can go to Adult Space Camp James in Florida. So you can still make that dream come true. Dr. James Tyger [00:45:15]: You can. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:16]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. James Tyger [00:45:19]: Shout out to Dr. Sarah Cunningham at Tulane. Diana Ali [00:45:21]: Definitely Shout out to Terry Hines, who was my first boss at naspa, and. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:26]: I'll say, hi, Terri. I know we haven't spoken in a long time, but she was such a great, warm, welcoming presence when I first joined the ppd. Number four, your essential student of peace affairs read. Dr. James Tyger [00:45:35]: I tell this to my law class all the time, but it's going to be the US Constitution. Diana Ali [00:45:39]: You Are a Data Person by Dr. Amelia Parnell. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:42]: Number five, the best TV show you've. Dr. James Tyger [00:45:44]: Been binging lately, Blurbus Friends. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:46]: Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last. Diana Ali [00:45:49]: Year, the Daily what a Day, which is a crooked media podcast. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:53]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. James Tyger [00:45:57]: I'm giving a shout out to Diana. What a lovely time. Diana Ali [00:46:00]: Okay, well, I was thinking to give a shout out to my brother, so. I'm sorry, James. Dr. James Tyger [00:46:05]: I'll survive. I'll survive. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:07]: Thank you both for sharing your policy expertise today. I know that you two both balance your knowledge of general higher education student affairs with a focus on policy. And I know our members will have benefited greatly from digging into some of the specifics today. If anyone would like to read you or the PPD after this episode airs, where can they find you? Dr. James Tyger [00:46:25]: J Tyger Gmail? Diana Ali [00:46:26]: You can find me at D A l I or daliaspa.org thank you both. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:32]: So much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. James Tyger [00:46:34]: Thanks, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:35]: Thank you. Diana Ali [00:46:35]: Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:40]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field, brought to you by naspa this show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@sa voicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and you your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:17]: This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan for Clint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

1/8/26 • 47:38

On the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson, the trailblazing President of Connecticut State Community College (Manchester, Middlesex, and Asnuntuck), for an inspiring conversation that's sure to resonate with higher education professionals everywhere. From Student Affairs to the Presidency Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson shares an authentic, winding journey to leadership that began much like many in student affairs: as an "overly involved" undergraduate seeking belonging. Coming from a multiracial, first-generation background, student affairs became a hub for discovery, community, and professional love—and ultimately, a lifelong calling. What's striking is Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson's deep commitment to social justice, equity, and access, themes that have been woven throughout his career—across four-year research universities and community colleges alike. Why Community Colleges Matter A central theme is the vital, often under-recognized, role of community colleges. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson highlights their generational impact: "We're not just transforming one life, but generations to come." Community colleges are bastions of second chances—for veterans, ESL learners, first-generation students, parents, and non-traditional learners. The conversation delves into how these institutions can be life-changing, especially for historically marginalized populations. Student Affairs: The Essential Connector If you've ever grappled with explaining the value of student affairs, this is the episode for you. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson argues the core value lies in fostering a sense of belonging—for both students and staff. Especially at community colleges, student affairs professionals often play generalist roles, bridging academics, crisis response, and holistic support with compassion and ingenuity. The episode explores the complexities presidents face, balancing limited resources, compliance obligations, and the profound desire to advocate for students' needs. Listeners gain rare insights into how institutional leaders make tough decisions, and how student affairs voices can drive real change. Advocacy, Research, and Representation A significant part of the episode covers Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson's research and writing around marginalized identities. His work brings visibility to queer and trans students, students of color—and pushes for actionable change in the face of societal headwinds. Why Listen? Whether you're an aspiring leader, a student affairs professional, or someone passionate about equity in education, this episode offers valuable wisdom, empathy, and actionable advice. Hear first-hand how Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson blends identity, experience, and advocacy to shape the future of higher ed. Tune in and be inspired—your student affairs journey will thank you! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host here on Essay Voices. It's always such a pleasure for us to welcome anyone who's serving in a college or university president role, especially when they've come up through student affairs pathways. So today it's our Honor to welcome Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson Johnson, he or they who is a seasoned educational administrator, best selling author, social justice educator and advocate who has dedicated his career and life to education reform, LGBTQ advocacy, economic justice and racial justice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: Joshua serves as the President at Connecticut State Community College, Manchester, Middlesex and Asnuntuck. He previously served as Provost in and Vice President of Academic affairs at West Valley College, Vice President of Student Services at the College of San Mateo, Dean of Equity and Student Services at American River College, Assistant Dean and Director of the Multicultural center at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and the Director of the LGBTQ Student center and Women's center at the University of California, Santa Barbara. He's also served in adjunct faculty roles at Binghamton University, the University of Wisconsin Madison, Semester at sea, CSU Long Beach, San Diego State University, USC and Concordia University, Portland. His social justice work has led him to become a best selling author with his book Be Beyond Surviving From Religious Oppression to Queer Activism, which was also ranked as number three on Book Authority's 20 Best Selling LGBTQ Activism Books of All Time. Joshua also published Authentic Leadership, Queer People of Color in Higher Education, and Queer Trans Advocacy in the Community College. Joshua received a doctoral degree in Adult and Higher Education and LGBT Studies from Northern Illinois University, a Master's in Social Sciences focused on student affairs and Diversity from Binghamton University, a Master's in Marketing from the University of Alabama, and a Bachelor's in Business from the University of Alabama. Joshua served on the Board of Directors for the association of California Community College Administrators, or acca, and was the founding Chair of the Equity and Social Justice Committee. Joshua previously served as the VP for the Board of the Sacramento LGBT Center. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:16]: NASPA has been a special place for Joshua and he previously served as the Chair of the Multiracial Knowledge Community, a Regional Representative for the Asian Pacific Islander Knowledge Community, Member at large for the International Education Knowledge Community, and as an Editor for the Journal of College and Character, and if you'd like to learn more about Joshua you, you can find their website@joshuaMoon-Johnsonjohnson.com Joshua welcome to Essay Voices. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:02:38]: So happy to be here, Jill. Thanks for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:41]: It's a rare treat that we get to have a president on the show, especially a president who's come through the pathways of student affairs like your journey has taken you. And we love to always start our episodes by asking our guests, how did you get to your current seat? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:02:54]: I don't even know if I ever thought, oh, I want to be a college president or anything like that. I started out as one of those, of course, like overly involved young student affairs students who kind of never, never left. I think, you know, for me, as a first one in my family to go off to university, I was terrified. And the thing that I do when I'm terrified, I overly prepare. And part of that was doing everything I could on campus because I was so afraid I wouldn't know what to do or how to get along. And finding social spaces within student affairs clubs and employment and extracurriculars and leadership really helped me find who I was and find purpose and help other young students. And then that kind of continued. And so most of my career has been in student affairs and higher education. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:03:37]: I took a one year gap and worked in fashion marketing and quickly thought, hmm, I think higher ed's for me. And I spent probably the first almost 15 years at large, mostly research one universities, and then made the pivot to community college as that aligned a little bit easier for me to do equity social justice work in the ways that were meaningful to me and with larger populations who are more likely to be at a community college than a highly selective universities. I made that pivot, I think it was about eight years ago now and have had the opportunity to do a couple of student affairs like a dean of student services and equity and then a vice president of student affairs. And then I got pulled over to the provost side and was able to kind of dig a little deeper into academic affairs and this opportunity came up where I get to lead three community college campuses in Connecticut. I'm four months in and so far it's everything I hoped it would be. So it's been exciting so far. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:32]: Well, that's incredible to be a new president as well, coming out from the idea space as well as from the student affairs space. Joshua, you mentioned that community college has really spoke to you and your mission in terms of the students you could serve and the impact that you could have. What's different in that community college space from that highly selective four year. That really drew you that way. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:04:51]: Yeah. I mean, and I'm not sure I don't know your background, Jill, like, if you ever did anything with community college. But I did not in most ways. So my family, I'm the youngest of five kids. My dad's the white military veteran. My mom's an immigrant from South Korea. And I never really realized it, but in some way, everybody in my family engaged in community college at Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College on the, you know, Gulfport, Biloxi, Mississippi. My dad as a veteran coming back in the early 70s. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:05:21]: My mom is an ESL student. And then each of my siblings went to community college. First for me as the youngest, I went off to a university, but I kept. Went back for summers and did community college to save money that I'd work all summer and pay off my tuition in that way too, because I was pretty much on Pell grants, scholarships, full financial aid, and trying to find ways to save money as much as possible. But I never really thought about college as a career after that. I really loved being at a university and specifically the identity development part of being in a kind of core student affairs and how they develop young folks. And that was fun for me. As I moved through kind of the traditional residence life path of ra, then hall director, then assistant director, I started to think about identity a lot more and who was included and who was not. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:06:09]: So I pivoted to doing director of LGBT center, director of multicultural Center. And I think the first time I thought, like, community college could be a space for me, I was at University of California, Santa Barbara. I originally got hired as the director of the LGBT center, which they call the Resource center for Sexual and Gender Diversity. And then, you know, this was 2010 budget cuts in California. Then I got asked to be the director of the non traditional student center. I was like, what is that? It pretty much served older students, parenting students, veterans at the beginning. And these were mostly students coming to UCSB from California community colleges and starting to hear more about their struggles, their life paths, and really that community college space, giving people that opportunity for a second chance who maybe didn't have a great high school experience, didn't know how to navigate applying to universities financially was not a possibility. And seeing how those community college experiences gave them that opportunity to go to a top 10 public school like UCSB or, you know, Berkeley or Stanford, some of these schools, and I was like, wow, it really resonated with kind of this underdog cheerleader that I've always been Some reason. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:07:22]: And that really spoke to me, was exciting about that. So I did, you know, one more kind of, you know, big job at University of Wisconsin Madison, where that was 50,000 students, huge. And then after that I was doing a job search and started to really prioritize trying to move into community college world. And I got to be the dean of equity programs at a large community college in Sacramento. That was most of my job, was serving populations who've been historically excluded in higher education or even when they do go to a university, they're marginalized at the university. So that was a really exciting opportunity for me to do that. It was challenging going from big four year to community college, but once I kind of figured out that rhythm, I knew it was kind of where I was meant to be. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:03]: You asked if I had any experience with community college, not as a professional, but as a student. I did summers at the local community college near where my family lives. And then also my father had always emphasized the importance of what he would term junior college from the era that he went to school because he did two years at junior college before transferring to the University of Washington. And he really has talked about how the junior college experience helped prepare him both academically and socially to go to that four year and be independent. And this was a couple decades ago. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:08:33]: Love that. I mean, and it really is, and we often say this in the community college world, that we're not just kind of giving an opportunity to transform one person's life, we're transforming the generations to come after them. Because you do see that a lot where one parent who first in their family goes to a junior college or community college, depending on most people call it community college now, I guess. And then you see the generations that are all kind of trickling after them where maybe they don't even go to community college. Kind of similar to your path, they go straight to the university, which is fine too. I think as much as people are like community college are great, they are great. Also four year universities are great. And sometimes it's better for the student to go to those too. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:11]: Absolutely. And you have one of these transferable experiences where you can talk about a four year, highly selective, a four year state and a community college experience. And across all of those, when, when you think about student affairs, can you talk about the value of student affairs and how it plays out differently at each of these institution types? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:09:28]: Yeah, it was a big change for me to go from a very traditional student affairs world. Naspa I found pretty early on I was the muff generation minority undergraduate fellow program for folks who are like, what are you talking about? But I came in probably 22. I started engaging with NASPA and kind of stuck with that. That was my community, my space, the API knowledge community, the multiracial knowledge. Those were my people for 10, 15 years of my career. Very kind of student adversary stuff. And then I went to community college. And lots of our community colleges aren't engaged in professional associations like naspa. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:10:05]: And not to always critique or to blame them, it's many times a financial resource situation. So I love that ability to try to pull community college people into naspa. So all of my roles, I'm like, I'm going to find some money, I'm going to pay for the journal, I'm going to send you to the conference, something like that. And I remember going to, as a dean at, at a community college and nobody knew what I was talking about with NASPA or formalized Student Affairs. And they still call it student services in many ways. And I would say many folks in the community college world don't always have that opportunity to invest in the, the professionalization, the research, the academic discipline of student affairs and student development. And so I felt very fortunate that that was the beginning part of my career. I had that foundation on higher ed and student affairs research that helped me kind of learn how community colleges work. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:10:56]: And then I had a strong foundation of leadership development, social justice theories, team dynamics. That was really beneficial as I moved into a dean role and then as a senior student affairs officer. I'll also caveat. I spent most of my community college career in California, which is a little bit different. It's kind of a beast of a system. In 16 colleges, over 2 million students, largest higher education system in our country. So it's very regulated, very compliance based. A lot of the ways we operate in student affairs is from assembly bills and Senate bills. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:11:28]: And the folks writing those assembly bills are not student affairs people typically, yet it impacts how we do student affairs. So that was a big shift for me. I was like, wait, I don't get to like apply this theory to practice in the way that makes sense to me. No. And so that was a big difference. I think also it was a learning space for me to be in a management position and strong bargaining unit cultures, where there are employee unions that have a lot of authority and power as well as shared governance, is a lot more focused within the California system. So I adapted to those and I really value those. I think that oftentimes they can seem like barriers, but Once you learn how to work collectively with those groups, it can actually make the institution a lot stronger. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:12:15]: So those were some of the big changes of like the pros and the cons. So many beautiful things about being at a community college. And I don't know even if you were there for the summer, I don't know if you realize recognize this, but when I first got to community college, the things I did as a normal student affairs hall director, stuff like that, investing in students, get to know them, advising them, the students were so appreciative and it was like, wow, I think I was there a semester and there was this panel and two students said I was their mentor, which was heartwarming and meaningful. And at the same time, I felt a little sad that many of these students had been neglected. And again, not to blame our community college people. We often have so fewer people at a community college who work there versus at a big university. You have a lot more people, I guess, to mentor students, to guide students. And so our community college students don't often get the individualized support that a lot of folks who go straight to university get. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:05]: Absolutely. And when I also think about the community college experience in student affairs, we just had a guest on earlier this season who had a similar experience to you where she went from four year experiences to two year experiences. And one thing that she talked about was that while teams might be smaller, they're also more knowledge, knowledgeable about the students around you because you have to think more stratified across functional areas as opposed to kind of verticals within student affairs. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:13:30]: I don't know what kind of path you started in studios, but starting out as like a hall director or resident, you're kind of like a generalist of everything. And in community colleges, that's very common. You know, I do wish some of our areas in community college had a lot more specialized people. But you see, it's more common that student affairs folks are generalist, not just in student affairs, but they know a little bit about academic affairs and facilities and everything. And I think coming out of a life housing background, that's very normal for those spaces too. So super grateful that I started in student affairs. Even now as a president. The level of crisis response that you get coming out of student affairs, goodness, like, I'm always prepared. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:14:07]: They're like, oh, wow, you handled that crisis. Where I was like, I started out in res life, I was like, I lived in the residence halls with the students for 10 years. I was like, I don't think there's going to be a crisis that happens, that's going to surprise me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:16]: I actually started out in student conduct, which I think is not as common of a pathway into student affairs. I remember my mentor and my undergraduate experience. I was doing an internship with a VPSA as a senior in undergrad because I knew I wanted to go into the field. And she said, as part of your internship, you're going to chair the student conduct hearing board. And I said, I don't want to do that. She said, you're going to do it and you're going to like it. And she was very right. It was a great opportunity for me to learn about perspective taking and what fairness and fundamental fairness and process and the importance of process for those types of procedures were in higher education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:48]: And that led to a GA ship for me in student conduct at Oregon State and was able to finish the master's there and then pathwayed right into a student conduct coordinator position. And that kind of foundationed my experience. So I got a different way of looking at student affairs from the beginning, but was in constant contact with residence life because a lot of cases would come from residence hall interactions. And so that kind of foundationed me into ultimately CSAO position. So it was a fascinating role. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:15:18]: And most people hate conduct and don't want to go into it. That's always so funny. And I've said this often with folks who are really resistant to conduct. I feel like some of my most meaningful experiences I've had as an educator were through conduct cases. And so it was like, oh, yeah. And so when you see folks who are possibly made some poor decisions or at the kind of the lowest points of their academic or life, and you're able to kind of support them and coach them with that. But thinking about conduct, this is interesting. When I switched to community college, I love your story around starting conduct, even as a student. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:15:53]: And I mean, I guess I was an ra, so I had to like document or, you know, write up is what people used to say, which was like the beginning of a conduct process. And then even as a grad hall director doing like low level adjudication. When I switched to the community college role, it was typically deans and AVPs as conduct officers. And I was like, oh, that's so interesting. I was doing these things as grad students and I really tried to push for that, that it is a lens that somebody as a newer professional has the skills to do that. Those levels of empathy, understanding, compliance, creating organization and structure and learning moments out of sometimes poor decisions. So I've been able to bring that to all of my community college roles. Even now when I've switched to a new state and I'm in Connecticut now. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:16:37]: Getting to work with most of our conduct officers here are associate deans or deans. And to see that role as part of their portfolio and to be able to guide that, support that, and coach that. There's so many things coming out of student affairs that have really helped me really vibe with the many parts of the campus. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:53]: Well, and I think part of that conduct foundation too, was it really emphasized for me, something I think we all should already know, which is that the importance of treating somebody with dignity and respect in all interactions is really critical. And making sure that we can emphasize the humanization of people in those conduct spaces is just the one thing that's going to make it the most powerful for everybody involved. Especially because we're usually working with people who still have a lot of development to do. I mean, we all have a lot of development to do at all points in our life. But maybe it's the first time that person has made a decision that has had that type of impact for them or somebody else. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:17:27]: I love that you said everyone has development. And that's kind of the great piece around community college college is that I think our average student's like 26 years old, 27 years old. And we have a lot of high school students now too. And so our dual enrollment programs, you can start in ninth grade. So sometimes we have ninth graders in our class, and then we often will have 50 year olds in our class. And the variety of folks who make decisions, you know, that aren't always positive, it crosses over folks from many different backgrounds and age ranges. So that idea of development is never done. Really resonates with community college college spaces. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:00]: How do you see student affairs now that you're in a presidency seat compared to when you were working directly in that corner of higher ed? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:18:07]: Yeah, you know, one good transition, and this wasn't something that I ever thought I would do, is I started in a role as a vice president of student affairs with one president, Dr. Jennifer Taylor Mendoza. And then she moved to a different campus as the college president and highly encouraged me to apply to be the provost there. And so, and I had always kind of dabbled in academic affairs. I've been regularly teaching for almost 20 years, in some ways as an adjunct and a couple times more full time. I still research, write, et cetera. So I was like, okay, I've always been a little bit on the nerdy side. Of Student affairs anyway. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:18:41]: And so I did go for the provost job, and I got it. And so in that role, being the provost, I got to really dig deeper into academic affairs. And that idea of, like, the how do we get Academic affairs and Student affairs to collaborate more was, like, that was my jam. And I was like, okay, I love student affairs. The VP of Student affairs that we're able to hire was formerly one of my team members at another campus. So we already worked well together. So I got to see student affairs from a little bit of an outside perspective when I was the provost and found many ways to collaborate and seeing how it gave me, like, yes, student affairs is really important. Yes, academic affairs is important, too, and the other areas that are existing, too. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:19:20]: And now in this role, there's so much value that student affairs has. And of course, the core of what we do is the things that happen within the classroom and how those are complimentary to each other. And so for me, it's always nice to be able to see priority prioritizing what should come first, what should come second, when we do have limited resources. That's something that's very true and common for community colleges. We're always needing more money and needing more people. So how do you make sense of that for someone who. Student affairs is the bulk of what I spent my career doing, yet I'm in charge of the overall operation of a campus now, too, so that's been good. There have been times where I have picked investing in academic affairs positions or facilities positions or marketing positions over student affairs. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:20:03]: And I think sometimes people get surprised. And at the same time, I think I'm able to make those decisions and discuss why I made those decisions from a lens that people know. I understand student affairs, and I see the value in student affairs. I see the value in student activities where people think it's like, well, that's cute. They're just playing games together. Like, well, actually, here's this, this, and this, and how this impacts retention and graduation, persistence, et cetera. So that's been helpful for me. But it is like, one of those things where I'm not always picking student affairs over the other divisions of the camp campus, luckily, because I've had experience across all of it, and they're all connected parts, too. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:20:40]: I was just guiding my campuses to go through our annual planning process, and retention was probably going to be one of our top priorities moving in. And a lot of the Academic affairs kept kind of making this assumption that if retention is our top priority, then that's all Student affairs people. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, hold on now. And it gave me confidence to be able to talk about retention and a lens that is both academic affairs and instructional as well as student affairs. It really is the blending of those two. And so I feel very comfortable and confident as I moved into a role like I'm in now. Because I had spent so much time in student affairs and then time as a provost, I was randomly even the dean of the library for a little bit. So I was like, okay. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:21:24]: But I've always kind of liked the mix and the many things that are happening at an institution, which is why I've always loved student affairs because we're kind of in everybody's business all the time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:32]: Any. Anyway, you have this incredible perspective where you can look at a university challenge and say, okay, I need to approach this problem from a variety of perspectives. I could see it from facilities, I can see it from academic affairs, I can see it from student affairs. I can see it from the presidency seat. If, if you're a student affairs professional, what would you want student affairs professionals to know about the way the presidency brain works when decisions are being made? And I ask this because some of us are really far away from presidents. We could be, you know, seven, eight layers in a hierarchy away from a president. Some of us might be much closer, a VPSA type of role, but we're not always able to understand decision making processes or thought processes, especially when something was really important to us and maybe that was factored into a decision, but ultimately didn't tilt a decision in a particular direction. Can you talk about how you think about that problem set and then what you wish student affairs professional would know about how you have to make those decisions? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:22:26]: I'll say it's still evolving for sure too. And I do feel pretty good, even though I'm just wrapping up my first semester in this presidency, my last role, where I was the provost, the president who I moved to that campus with her. I was fortunate to have her as a mentor, and she included me in a lot of the ways in which she was thinking and talking about decision making. So I felt like for a few years I got to sneak peek at what it was like to be a president in that role. And then now that I'm in it, I would say. And it varies too. So I'm speaking from a community college perspective. I have three small campuses that I serve as the president over. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:23:01]: Collectively there, you know, we're talking about 10,000 students. So they're each not huge Huge. And it could be different if you're at a large university, if you're at one large community college. Based off of kind of my model, helping people kind of really understand what are the basic things that we need to get done. And this was hard for me for a little bit as I moved from university to community college. I feel like in when I was at university specifically doing identity development works for marginalized populations. So LGBT centers, multicultural centers, Asian American centers, undocumented centers, et cetera, et cetera. Sometimes those spaces, especially at universities, we think about identity development and of course all of us student various people, we took all these classes and theories and then getting to the point to where in community colleges sometimes that feels like a luxury to be able to even talk about those things. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:23:50]: We're talking about some real basic things around getting out of developmental math and English classes or eliminating them and reforming them. We're talking about real basic needs and many of our students having basic needs of food, shelter, transportation, child care, medical insurance. And most of these offices are one person offices. You have a one person student activities office. Like you're lucky if you have a multicultural affairs office. I have a seven hour a week person who is a DEI coordinator is kind of what they call it now. So we're really, you know, basic level trying to get by. And so I think that when I think about some of the pieces that we pull, like this is important, important. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:24:30]: I agree that some of the student affairs things are very important, but when I can't staff an English class, it's really hard to rationalize adding another student activities position or being able to start a mentorship program. I highly believe that those things are important and valuable. But if I can't run a gen ed class, it's really hard to think about those kind of above and beyond pieces. I end up in a lot of conversations with people and I really want to support their proposals and initiatives. I love the innovations that our especially our newer professionals are bringing to the campuses. And I have to explain very regularly, we're not there yet. We're still trying to do some basic things. As a community college that's currently in a state with heavy budget cuts happening. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:25:14]: So it's not that I don't value student affairs, I value it. And probably most of my career has been in jobs that now I'm looking back like, oh my gosh, those jobs are so important and if I don't run these classes, we don't even have students, students. So that's a hard decision to make. And so to me, it's like, all good ideas, but some good ideas are a little bit more at the basic level. So I. I feel it's. I feel like that's hard to do sometimes. But I will say I really got good at budget and prioritization because I started in these roles. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:25:42]: My first job as a director was of an LGBT center at UC Santa Barbara. And even though, like, people think like, oh, it's a uc, lots of resources, search one, et cetera, I was the director of an office that, no, most people don't care about. So it's like, I think my first year that my budget was $10,000. And so it's like the whole year, $10,000. And I was like, how do I make this job? How do I make this department run on $10,000? And so I got good at that. And then it was like, how do I assess this and prove our value and our worth and our impact on students to get more resources and more staffing? And so I learned those skills as a student affairs director sector in a small office serving marginalized people. And I think that that's something that I. I feel like I do well as a community college president because we have real small budgets. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:26:33]: We're always hustling, always trying to prove our worth and our impact. And I think you gain those skills when you grew up in these offices that are the ones that are never kind of the core of student affairs of what we would say, you know, of course, I could have gone the housing route and been the director of housing, blah, blah, blah, which. Those are often the people who end up in VPSA jobs or maybe beyond. But I don'. I'm a feeler, and I like to kind of hang out with folks in. In community and cry sometimes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:00]: What advice do you have for current student affairs professionals who aspire to be a university or college president? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:27:07]: You know, there are so many things I would say, one, why do you want to do it? It's a good question to ask yourself. And I don't know if you ever got caught up in this around, like, especially like NASPA Student Affairs Y folks, and I'm guilty of this, is we get kind of caught up in the game around, like, I did this job for three to five years. Now I'm supposed to go apply to the next one and like, oh, I've been a director. Now I need to be an assistant dean or dean, and I need to be a avp, like, all these kind of things. I feel like we get into that a little Bit too much. And I always ask people when they're like I want to be a dean or I want to be the vice president, I want to be like why? Tell me like think about why. And I think for me, even earlier in my career and it took me a while to kind of get out of this is like a title or a position somehow meant I was worth something or I had value or more value because I supervised more people or I had a bigger budget, I had a bigger title. And I think when we move into these roles for reasons like that, it feels good for like six months. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:28:01]: And then after that six month of being the dean where it's off like you're just a dean like everybody else and then like you still got all the drama and the title's not even exciting anymore. So I feel like people who are chasing titles cuz it makes them feel like they have an impact or a value. It's really a scary kind of trap to go down. Especially folks in these roles are getting let go all the time and then you have this kind of like identity crisis where like well, I put all my worth and value into being a product president and people knew my name and people said all the impact they've noticed is now I don't have that job. Like well then who are you? So I think that's a scary thing to do. If it's about money, it's never really worth the money because the number of hours you often work can be like you would make more money for doing a job that's less hours. So that's the first thing I would say question that I really questioned, did I want to move up? Being that dean was the sweet spot for me. I felt like I had an impact. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:28:51]: I felt like I had autonomy, it was good work, life balance. I still was able to stay connected to students in the way that's really enjoyable. And I was like, I feel like I have to move up because I feel like I've invested a lot into developing skills and skills that I think I can make a difference. Especially in a community college world where unfortunately I didn't see a lot of presidents that kind of had a holistic social justice foundation of leadership. And that's something that I was fortunate that other people guided me down that path. My academic disciplines took me down that path. When you think about who's at community colleges, low income, immigrant, first gen, bipoc, trans and queer, disabled and, and many of the presidents don't have the skills and knowledge to serve them in an adequate way. And so I was like, okay, well, that's the path I came from. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:29:39]: I want to do that. Even though I would rather just, like, hang out and watch tv. I was like, I feel like I'm supposed to do this. So I did it, and I'm doing it, and overall it's been great. So I. That's the path. And then some tangible, practical things to really gain. You have to learn the academic side of the house. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:29:58]: So start adjuncting. If you. Depending on what kind of school you're going to be at, you don't always have to research and write. I do research and write. I would say light research. I mostly write for practitioners. I'm like, here's the problem. Here's a little bit of baby research. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:30:11]: Do this and it'll make things better. So find ways to engage on the academic side of the house. Be flexible. I kind of kept getting pulled into different directions by interim roles. I don't know when someone's like, do you want to do this interim role? I was like, okay. I guess. One of the fascinating things that looped all the way around in my career when I was at University of Wisconsin Madison, our VP of Student Affairs, Dr. Laurie Burke Berkwum, was like, I want to start a foundation advancement office for student affairs. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:30:38]: And she's like, I want you to start that office. I was like, you know, I've never done this before. She's like, you'll figure it out. She's like, you know, student stories, and you're good at marketing. So I did. So I was able to help start that office. And so for a year, I did fundraising advancement, alumni relations for student affairs. And then when you think about what it means to be a president, that's a big part, like engaging with donors, getting grants, get doing the alumni part. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:30:59]: And I think that that's a lot of things that student affairs people don't often have. So all of my interviews, presidents, that is a big part of really that level of engagement. And so that was helpful for me to be able to, like, yeah, I actually have done this. And then I translated through a couple of my community college roles to be like, yeah, I've helped raise this much money, these grants. So those are a few things that I think are often really important for student affairs folks to round out what they might want to do as they move forward. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:27]: Let's transition to talk about your research and your work a little bit. And also, you're quite a prolific speaker on marginalized identity topics. Can you tell us a little bit about your interest there and what you're finding right now. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:31:38]: Yeah, well, I mean, I think I got deep into this all from, like, NASA stuff. And so thank you for all you do at NASA and engaging people and making these conferences wonderful. And so I think that I was always trying to figure out, like, how to kind of combine things. And when it came to research, writing, speaking, I don't know, I was kind of a few things. One, I was at a school, I was like, you can't go to NASPA unless you're presenting. So I was like, oh, I better submit something, because if I don't get anything approved, then I don't get to go to NASPA and see my friends. So I did those kind of things. I often was. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:32:12]: So I. I did my first master's in marketing research and then I went back and I worked full time as a resident director at Binghamton University and did a master's in, I dunno, it was like social sciences, student affairs and diversity. So I was working full time and doing a master's in student affairs. And so I would find ways to be like, okay, I'm taking this class, I wrote this paper. I'm turning into a conference presentation. I'm submitting it. I did it at the conference, it went it well. I'm going to workshop it and turn it into an article. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:32:36]: So it was really like, maximizing my time. And that's kind of how I started doing writing and then speaking and speaking at conferences around a paper that I wrote or something like that. And I was often picking papers to write for my classes or things to present at our conferences out of, like, I don't know, things that I just was passionate about. I wanted to read about and write about and talk about or areas I knew I needed to grow. That was a challenge, challenge to myself. Back in, like 2005, I was a resident director. I had come from a very interesting Evangelical Pentecostal background that didn't talk about many identities we talk about today. And I read this article about trans students in the residence hall and it scared me a little bit that I was like, I don't really even know what I would do if I had trans students in my residence hall. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:33:24]: So I took it. I was like, this is gonna be my thesis topic. And so this was 20 plus years ago now that I was like, I want to know what universities are doing. And that really challenged me to. To understand how I could be a better resident director, how I could share this with colleagues in our field and also a better understanding of my own gender identity and expression, although I probably wasn't at a place to say that yet or even acknowledge that it was informative and healing for me and my own self help. Lots of my gender expression identity had been policed and harmed. And so I continued that path. And oftentimes when I've seen a problem where I'm like, why is no one writing about this or talking about it? I'm like, oh, I guess I have to do that. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:34:00]: And so the last book that I wrote is I got to be a director of LGBT centers and universities, and then wrote a couple of books around queer and trans students in higher education with religion and Christianity, with race and identity. And then I got to help start one of the first LGBT centers at a community college in the country with Dr. Emily Mitchell, who was at American River College with me. And then we presented at all these community college conferences, like, here's how you start queer and trans services at a community college. And people ate it up. And this was like, 2018, so not even that long ago. But this was stuff that community colleges didn't know yet or have resources. Resources for those things yet. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:34:38]: So I think for us from universities who grew up in the field, we might think that that's basic stuff, but finding the resources is really hard in community colleges. Some of these really rural community colleges, they're highly politicized, can be violent. So after doing a lot of presentations, I turned to Emily, and I was like, emily, I think someone needs to write a book about this. And we're like, I think that's us. So we wrote the book Queer and Trans Advocacy in the Community College, along with Lemuel Watson. And that's been a really meaningful space for me to be able to write a book around how community colle can really do better with serving trans and queer students. And so I've gotten the chance to speak to community colleges all over the country on how to put that book into practice. It's one of my favorites. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:35:19]: When a student affairs division or a community college will use it as, like, a common read for their employees, Then I get to come at the end and do, like, the little book talk and Q and A, and they're like, we really tried to do this thing, and it was not working. What's your advice? So that's been meaningful to me, and I think that we're in a time in our country and even worse world where that's being really complicated around the schools that used to be more comfortable advocating for those things or having to be fearful because of their funding or local politics, and understanding that that's real, especially now that I'm in a seat as a president and the implications that come with that, but knowing that we can still be strategic in how we do that. So I have a lot of thoughts for other books coming from this seat now, too. I'm trying to figure out how I have time to do that. So I'm making outlines of things that I want to write specifically from a leadership seat. And I think also in this time where I know a lot of folks who are in senior administrator roles, even as a VP of Student affairs or as a president, that the things that we felt comfortable saying three to five years ago can get people kicked out of their jobs now. And I'm not the type to not say those things. And so I'm going to say them. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:36:23]: I'm trying to figure out how do I do social justice work that has an impact in a way that can be making meaning now today too, because I'm not trying to cause a bunch of lawsuits or end up in the news all the time. I just want create a space for my students to be able to live fully who they are, to get their education and not have to compromise or to put part of themself at the backseat of coming to get an education. And I know that a lot of campuses have had to dissolve things, rename things, which I know renaming things can be strategic. It's also kind of minimizing in the symbolism of you value and you matter here are gone at the same time, too. So I have thoughts in my head around what that looks like in practice, and I still work shopping it, and I look forward to being able to detail out what that is, not just for me, but I think for many folks in leadership positions that are afraid for their jobs to do what they know they need to do for their students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:13]: I want to express my gratitude to you for being a president just in the forefront of all of this, not afraid to use your voice, and then also being out there with all of the identities that you carry. We don't see many college presidents who identify like you do. And it's one of those things where you said something earlier where you're kind of like, oh, no one's written it. Oh, I have to write it. I felt like that a lot in my career as well, where there's not been necessarily someone who blazed the trail for me ahead of me. So there are many moments where if you don't take that opportunity to carve it for someone. But now you created a path for others who identify like you to see themselves in a position like a college president. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:37:49]: Well, thank you. I'm interested in your perspective from a global perspective, knowing you're in the uk. Like, what's kind of this shift in kind of how we talk about identities in higher Editor student affairs from a, like an outside USA perspective. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:03]: The Overton Rectangle, Overton Square, whatever you want to call it is, is a little different. In the uk, for example, the value of higher is not being questioned at all in the uk. So it's taken quite a bit of the narrative in American higher education and we're just not seeing that. In fact, in most parts of the world, we're not seeing that dialogue. I'm also a proud member of NASPA's global division board. Currently we're chaired by Amnea Badr, who is a lovely, incredible professional in student affairs and she always brings an incredible global perspective. And we're represented from people all over the world. So we've got board members that are coming from the Manassa region, region. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:38]: We have global members from Europe and Asia and beyond. And the conversations are just quite different. We're still talking about inclusion in different ways, we're talking about funding in different ways. But I think the one thing that the US and the UK have in common right now is a pretty serious shift in policy related to international students coming into our learning spaces. Both nations have taken a pretty hard stance on making it more difficult for international students to approach education. And we just had a lovely conversation in a previous episode with, with Zachariah from University of Michigan. But what he's seeing, because he works solely in the international student space and he's, he's an expert and focused there. And so we're seeing choice of those students divert. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:20]: And that is also going to affect the globalization viewpoints of our students on these campuses, because they're not going to be able to interact, engage, cross, cross exchange ideas with people who have extremely different life experiences than them, which I think is going to have a deep impact on, on the way that we see each other in the world. Because I think the number one, one way that we can create inclusion spaces is simply to talk to each other across lived experiences. Because even though both the UK and the US speak English, I make a joke all the time that, you know what? I don't speak English, I speak American. And those are different things. And sometimes those are small moments. For example, I have a good friend who says, tamao sauce for ketchup and the first time they asked for tomato sauce with their chips, I thought they wanted marinara sauce for the fries. And so it's just, it's small stuff like that, but it's, but it's also big things about how we use language, how we live in high context, low context environments, how confrontation with care looks, how exchange of ideas and political ideology looks. It's all really different. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:19]: So I think the, the long and the short of all of that is we've come to a space where the conversation in US higher education, which is where my intellectual home is, my education and training is it's not speaking the same language as the rest the of of the world right now, and maybe it will again soon. But because the US is physically so far removed from a lot of the rest of the world, I think the ideas can also drift to be far away. And that's what, what I'm observing. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:40:45]: I love that perspective and I think that just being outside of a US context challenges us to really think about the words that we're using. And especially kind of with this current anti DEI movement, I guess that would be, I think we did need to question the words that we were saying and why we're saying them and how they impact folks and the really going back kind of the human side of it and not just the political side of it. I worked for semester at seed 10 plus years ago and on the student affairs team and my job was the diversity and cultural specialist. And in that role I was supporting bipoc students, queer and trans students, women, international students, and all of those identities can look differently when you go from country to country, Even things like race, the way we talk about race here versus in Asia or Africa, very different. And then supporting queer and trans students at I think we went to 10 different countries and a number of the countries it was criminalized for being queer or trans. And so we had to think about how do we do queer and trans advocacy in a global perspective. And so this current kind of space that we're in and thinking about, well, it's illegal, we're not going to do anything or whatever this illegal idea is. It's like, well, you know, 20 years ago, 50 years ago, people found ways to advocate, to be activists, to support. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:41:58]: And in many parts of of the world it's still like that too. And not that I want the US to go in that direction, but we will still persist, we will still find ways to advocate, we can still center that in love, no matter what the policy or the administration is. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:13]: Joshua I'm going to transition us to our theme questions for the season, which is on the value of student affairs. So I've got three questions that we've been asking every guest this season. And the first one is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:42:27]: Sense of belonging. I would say that's what brought me in for first is just a person to fill a place that I could connect, which that wasn't often common for me. But then for our students and even employees, the attachment to retention, the goals of consistent persistence to graduation. So it really goes down to kind of the bread and butter of what higher education is about. And so much of that sense of belonging comes from our student affairs folks. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:52]: Our second question. Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:42:58]: I would say when I think about student affairs coming to life, I'm going back to my days as an assistant dean and director at University of Wisconsin, Madison. This was 2014-17, when Black Lives Matter was becoming a campus movement. Seeing our student leaders, specifically our black student leaders, other students of color, and even our white students mobilize, put leadership development into action to gather people, to organize events, protest actions, and in a way that cost them something, their time, their emotions, possibly conduct situations. To see students grow in stressful situations like that, to support each other. That to me was such a powerful moment to be a director in that space. I learned so much from them and so much from my team members. Seeing student leaders move into advocacy roles that were far beyond them, that were national and global. And I see people who develop those skills often get them from student affairs programs that intentionally nudge students to gain those tools and those skills to lead in that way. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:00]: And our first final question, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:44:07]: Student affairs can continue to do kind of the core of what we've always done. And I think really we need to do a better job of telling the story of our impact on the core operations of higher education. I would say that we often think about a lot of the kind of leading indicators that would get us to the goals, but don't always connect it to the actual goal itself. As much as I love the focus on getting that degree as a community college president, the area that I feel like we need to make sure we're tying student affairs to is really looking at getting students into living wage jobs. And so that's a community college specific perspective. I often say that my goal in moving into a community and our college is serving this community is poverty reduction and hopefully poverty elimination. And that comes through getting students into programs, out of programs, transferring it into careers and academic affairs programs or what we often call workforce programs. Talk about that a lot, but I often hear our student affairs people connecting the work that they do with poverty reduction and poverty elimination for those who are most marginalized within our communities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:13]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:19]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in naspa. Well, Happy New Year to you. As you're listening today and we're starting a brand new year, one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about is the 2026 NASPA Annual Conference. The NASPA Annual Conference is the premier gathering for student affairs professionals, educators and higher education leaders dedicated to advancing student success and institutional excellence. Each year, thousands of participants come together to explore innovative research, share transformative practices, and strengthen professional networks that shape the future of higher education. The 2026 NASP Annual Conference, our 108th annual conference will take place March 7th through the 11th, 2026 in Kansas City, Missouri. As an attendee, you can expect dynamic keynote speakers, thought provoking sessions, and meaningful opportunities to collaborate across functional areas, all within an inclusive, forward thinking environment designed to inspire progress on every campus. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:46:23]: You do still have some time to get your registration in for early registration. The early registration deadline is on February 4th. You also have time for the second cycle of scholarships where you can apply for scholarships for the conference if you need be and the deadline for that is January 13th. Jill and I are really excited to be attending the NASPA Annual Conference again this year. We will be talking to attendees about their own experiences in student affairs and recording some of the recordings, some questions questions that all of you can be a part of. So if you are there you definitely will want to come and find us because we would love to talk to you. We always also have an opportunity to be able to record a couple of episodes at the conference that we will be providing to you after the conference and it's a great opportunity to go even deeper with some of the keynote speakers and others that make that conference happen. If you missed it, there is a brand new leadership exchange that came out right before the end of the year and this issue is called Shaping the Future of Community Colleges Through Student affairs this special issue highlights the impactful work being done at community colleges and the essential role these institutions play. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:47:38]: This issue showcases the breadth of contributions community college make to the profession, from academic and co curricular experiences to fostering connection and belonging for students. Beyond this, there is another great opportunity for you to get even more more information. On January 20th at 4pm Eastern, there is a webinar that is free for all members called a Reimagined Leadership Exchange. NASPA Leaders Talk Community Colleges Innovation and what Comes Next as mentioned, this Leadership Exchange is a special one focusing exclusively on community colleges. To mark this historic focus, NASPA President Dr. Amelia Parnell, NASPA Vice President for Research and Policy Dr. Janae Chandler and and Co Editors Dr. Mayra Olivares Llureta and Dr. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:48:25]: Eddie Martinez come together for a dynamic roundtable conversation. The group will reflect on why this is a pivotal moment for community colleges and why this matters for student affairs professionals at all institutional types, the innovations gaining momentum across the field and the leadership required for what comes next. Their insights set the tone for a new era of storytelling, connection and shared learning. As mentioned, this web event is on January 20, 2026. It's 4pm and it is a free opportunity for all NASPA members. All you have to do is go to learning.naspa.org to sign up today. Also, right before the end of the year, NASPA submitted comments on the ACT survey to the Department of Education. NASPA, alongside a coalition of 34 higher education and research organizations with the Post Secondary School Data Collaborative, submitted public comments to the U.S. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:20]: department of Education regarding the proposed addition of the admission of the Admissions and Consumer Transparency Supplement, or acs, to ipeds. The comments addressed the data definitions, the accelerated implementation timeline, limited technical assistance, and the potential risk that AXE data would not meet IPEDS data quality quality standards or support its stated purpose. The coalition urged the Education Department to address these issues before requiring institutions to report ACTS data. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association association is as strong as its members and for all of us we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit where do you want to give back? Each week? We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:51:07]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:18]: Chris, thank you so very much for continuing to keep us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA and Joshua, we have reached our lightning round, which is seven questions in about 90 seconds, all about you. I promise they're fun. Are you ready to go? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:51:31]: Let's go. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:32]: Question number 1 1. When you are a conference keynote speaker, what is your entrance music? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:51:36]: I didn't get an entry music song, but right now, I mean, I would take golden by hundreds. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:42]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:51:45]: Probably a dancer. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:46]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:51:49]: Dr. Lemuel Watson. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:51]: And what institution is that from? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:51:52]: He is now at Antioch University, but he was my dean when I was at Northern Illinois University and my advisor for my doctorate dissertation. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:00]: Number four, and I'll caveat this by saying you can say your own work. What's your essential student affairs? Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:52:05]: I refer all of my team members to Read Identity Conscious Supervision and Student affairs by Robert Brown, Shruti Desai and Craig Elliot. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:15]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:52:17]: RuPaul's Drag Race UK. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:19]: That's

1/1/26 • 54:07

Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis talk about the past season and the holidays as they prepare for a short break and then the end of Season 13.   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers Your essay Voices from the Field Host. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:27]: Happy end of 2025. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:28]: Chris Happy end of 2025. It's been a great 2025 thus far. I know we've got a maybe another week or so left in it. We'll see what happens over the next week. But happy holidays to you and your family and friends. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:41]: And to yours as well. I hope everyone in Michigan is doing well in the snow and staying warm. It's just a much colder climate than I've ever lived in, so I know you must have the best coats. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:52]: We do have good coats, but I will say I have been to London at New Year's and dang cold. So though you may not have the snow, you definitely have the cold weather. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:02]: Oh my gosh, I'm freezing here all the time because it's so humid even when it's really cold. But we hope that everyone is enjoying a calm holiday season with your loved ones. This year we're going to do something a little bit different with the break in the past. We've been done with our fall season, but we wanted to make sure that we are bringing you continual episodes as best we can. So instead we're gonna take the next two weeks off. So we won't drop one on Christmas Day, we won't drop one on New Year's Day, but our last two episodes will come out the following two Thursdays in January, and then we'll take our break between seasons at the end of January with hopes that we're bringing you our next season in early February. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]: Looking forward to coming back. We got these final episodes are really powerful ones, so I really encourage you to take a listen once they come back. It'll be a great way to start the new year. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:52]: And one of our lovely guests will be a current college president who came up through Student affairs, which I always think is a fantastic story for us to learn from and kind of hear the perspectives on higher education from various places in people's careers. The other episode coming your way is all about public policy and higher education. We know that this has been a super funky two years of policy shifts and we're going to be bringing on our incredible chair of the Public Policy division, James Tiger and Diana Ali, who works with NASPA in Public Policy Perspectives. So look forward to those two drops coming in January. In the meantime, we wish you and yours a very warm and renewing break and start to your 26. We'll see you next year. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:41]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@savoicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:11]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

12/25/25 • 03:39

The latest episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, delves into the complex and evolving landscape of international education, featuring the perspectives and expertise of Dr. Zachariah Mathew, Senior International Officer at the University of Michigan-Flint. From the outset, listeners are treated to Dr. Zachariah Mathew's personal journey—a career that began as a physical education teacher in India, transitioned into higher education in the United States, and flourished with a research focus on international student college choice. His story reflects how diverse experiences and a global outlook can enrich student affairs and the field of higher education. One of the central themes is the motivation and decision-making process behind international students studying abroad. Dr. Zachariah Mathew identifies three drivers: economic and social mobility, the pursuit of knowledge and professional impact, and the prestige associated with international degrees. However, as global immigration policies shift and uncertainties around regulations grow, students and their families are increasingly risk-averse—reconsidering where and how they invest in their education. The conversation explores how universities often view international students through an economic lens, sometimes seeing them as "cash cows" rather than valuable contributors to campus culture. Dr. Zachariah Mathew urges institutions to define the true purpose of internationalization, moving beyond financial incentives to prioritize perspective-building, idea-sharing, and the cultivation of global competencies. The podcast offers valuable strategies for supporting international students and fostering a truly global learning environment. Best practices include intentional integration of international and domestic students, articulating clear institutional goals for internationalization, investing in well-resourced support centers, and scaffolding opportunities for cross-cultural engagement both inside and outside the classroom. Dr. Zachariah Mathew emphasizes the importance of intentionality—creating spaces where all voices are heard, identities are recognized, and learning outcomes span both academic and personal growth. This episode also examines the vital role of student affairs in transforming academic degrees into holistic educational experiences. Drawing on the philosophy of Ubuntu—"I am because we are"—the conversation calls for greater collaboration between student affairs and academic departments, and for institutions to nurture students' adaptability, curiosity, and sense of belonging. If you're eager to understand the challenges, opportunities, and responsibilities at the intersection of international education and student affairs, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in, and gain fresh insight from voices shaping the future of higher education. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:27]: Zachariah welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:00:30]: Jill thank you very much for having me. It's truly an honor and that you consider me worthy of this opportunity. So thank you very much for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:37]: We're looking forward to learning more about your expertise in the international education space. And you have an incredible journey that has brought you to your current seat in international education, weaving through different parts of higher education administration and also through the world. So we'd love to know if you could tell us, how did you get to your current seat? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:00:55]: Absolutely. It's in the process started somewhere. Today I'm here. God knows where I'll be tomorrow. So I started off as a physical education teacher in India, teaching at some prestigious institutions in Bangalore. And when I started my career I realized that I wanted to do more. And that also meant that I had to kind of not be where I was, but go up so that I can be in a decision making place. And at some point, almost seven years into my teaching career, I realized that I did not know enough to do any of these things. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:01:28]: So I decided to pursue my higher education in sports science and sports management. And this was in India at the time, sports was not an advanced field of study. So I chose to come to the United States. I did my master's in sports management. And the experience as an international student, it was the first time I really looked back into cultural vibrance or cultural competency or global competency. Because while we in India we spoke five or six languages and nobody cared. Everybody does. We eat all kinds of foods and we understood other cultures. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:02:04]: So you never thought about it. But it's only when I came to us I really realized the dynamics of those cultural diversity and perspective. But it was within me. I was thinking about it. I was very active as an international student. I was not a traditional student. I was almost 26 years old when I came here. This is about 25 years ago. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:02:20]: And that was kind of bubbling in me. I was very engaged with faculty, administrators, seniors to gain their perspective and also very engaged with the student affairs because I was doing my master's in sports management. And then I started working for State University of New York at small community college within that space. And in 2009 I decided to quit my job, go back to school to do my PhD in higher education leadership and Administration at Indiana State University from where I already had my Master's and I specialized in international student affairs there. So my dissertation was on international students college choice. While I was there, while I started, the position position opened up as one of the international student advisor position or the engagement specialist position. It was an associate director position and I was fortunate to have that position. So it started off as engaging the students and looking at it through the student development theories and to see how we can develop the student and bring a holistic education into the student. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:03:21]: You know, not just international students, but broadly all how to provide the domestic students this perspective. And that started in 2011, 2025. I'm here at the University of Michigan Flint as the Director and Senior International Officer. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:36]: That's quite a journey. And I love hearing people's student affairs and higher education journeys as they weave through different parts of education. As we've talked about many times on this show, no one grows up saying I want to be a student affairs professional. And so taking that skill set that you built in sports management, sports science and translating it into an international education career is a really great representation I of how we get into this field and move through it. Zachariah, you mentioned that you have experiences looking at international student choice through research. And I know that research is a little bit older now, but can you tell us what we knew then about international student choice in terms of where they're going to school and what that looks like presently? Because we know that that has shifted a little bit. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:04:17]: So the students choose to study abroad primarily for under three different categories. That is a college choice. So where they go is comes after why they choose to study abro abroad or stay at home. So one aspect is and most every decision has some element of all the three, but predominantly one is economic decision or social mobility. So they make this decision for social mobility or economic prosperity. So it is a one time investment. Students really take this opportunity to invest in quality education so that not only them but the coming generation can have better economic prosperity and social mobility, which is really correlated. And then there is the psychometric which is about having this opportunity to gain the knowledge and to have higher impact within the field of what they do. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:05:05]: And the third one is social. Social is also to aspect is to be able to say where they go and the social prestige that comes with it. So it could be a country it could be a university within the country and it goes on. So these are the major areas and where they go depends on a combination of all these three. So for example, if somebody can afford to go to a private university in the US where there is quality education, they might choose if they have the capacity to withstand the academic rigor and can pay for it. Whereas if somebody does not have the capacity to pay, they might not choose us, but might choose a country where the education is not as expensive as it is in the US So it is a balancing of all these three that really comes in and says, okay, this is where we are going to go. So one might choose United States States, but they might choose a university that might not be expensive because it is an economic decision that they're making because they do not have the capacity to invest where there might be other situation where it's fully funded. So a student who is looking at it through the social aspect could say, you know what, I'm going to go to the prestigious university where I can get accepted into because I don't have to worry about the pay. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:06:16]: And also then the, I mean this is not to say that the academic focus does not come into play. The students also look at the academics and the university's capacity to deliver those curriculum and the proficiency of the faculty. So it's a combination of different factors and it is very dynamic. What has changed today with uncertainties in the immigration regulations and its interpretation, students are hesitant to take the risk. So something very important that we need to recognize is if you really look at the large number of international students here in the United States, most of them are from high context cultures where there is uncertainty avoidance. They are willing to take a decision if they are certain about the consequence. But they are hesitant to take a decision when there is not much of certainty in what is going to happen tomorrow. So that is impacting the students decision to choose United States as a destination for now. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:07:11]: And in all this we need to recognize that this is a one time investment for the students. And it's also important to recognize that these international students are buying this commodity called education, which according to World Trade Organization, higher education is a tradable commodity. They are buying this purely based on perception. They have never used it before. They talk to people around, they talk to officials, they go on YouTube, they go on Facebook, they look at pamphlets and buy the most significant influential commodity in their life, investing pretty much everything that they have. So it is a significant decision that they make. And they try their best not to take chance. So students risk aversion and parents and families as well because this is a major investment. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:08:01]: Kind of not willing to take that chance at this point because of the uncertainty. I mean, the interpretation is changing. We hear something today and tomorrow. It's like, sorry, that's not true. Something else has come up and that is not helping us at all. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:13]: It's a tough situation, especially for English speaking countries that are receiving international students because we've enjoyed some global privilege on being quite popular destinations historically. But both the United States and the United Kingdom have put down some pretty stringent requirements for international student entry that really haven't been present in the past. And we also know that a lot of American and British universities are heavily reliant on international student tuition dollars in order to make certain budgetary decisions, work and continue to offer certain student services and things like that. So it's an interesting place to be. So with all of that said, Zachariah, what are you seeing inside of our international education crystal ball about what we're looking down the pike gap for the next several years of international ed, knowing that these regulations are changing and that affordability is changing. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:09:05]: Affordability, yes. It's a big question. That is an important thing. But I think at the national level it is important that nations define the purpose of international education. What the motivation is, is it just purely economic or is it about perspective building and bringing the brilliant minds together and sharing those perspectives and ideas and culture? We can look at different countries. Canada opened up their doors many years ago, but they did not have the infrastructure so they had to slow down about a decade ago. Australia did that because of the money. In the US it is a $43 billion industry. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:09:40]: These money that the international students bring, that's a lot of money. So there might be motivations for the universities and institutions of higher education to bring more and more international students, but they do not ask the question if they have the capacity. And very often some of the universities don't even define why they want the international students on their campus. They're seen as cash cows. I'm sorry, they are seen as cash cows. Supplementing the loss of revenue from other sides to it comes in the demographic cliff. We all talk about the demographic cliff and that there are not enough students to go to the US Universities and these universities were built on GI Bill. And then the other part that nobody talks about is the big question is, you know, is this investment worth it? This is a big question that people all around it was in the US but now globally they're asking, is this high investment worth the returns? Does the higher education have the value that it says it has? It all comes down to roi. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:10:35]: You know, I do not have a crystal ball, but I think it is very important that institutions of higher education define its purpose. And this is something that I'll talk a little more about. This is we need to define what the difference between an academic degree and an education is and what common good are we serving. So unless and until we define that, I think it would be very difficult for us to really bring a big picture on what the landscape is going to look like. And again, it is also changing dynamically. I did not know what AI was 18 months ago in the way I never thought I would use AI. But today I'm so much into it. I mean we are talking about in person classes, then it became virtual and now we are talking about meta varsity. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:20]: Let's go back to what you said about the purpose of why we're bringing international students to our college campuses. And I think you made a really poignant statement when you said that universities are looking at the dollars but not looking at effectively the human element of what we're offering to the students that are choosing to come to our campuses from other countries and how we are creating infrastructure to support them. So if you were to look at the most promising practices in international education that really are doing the of helping international students succeed in specifically US universities, what are you seeing that's on the table that's really promoting that engagement, growth, support education and academic success? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:12:01]: First and foremost at an institutional level, they need to articulate why have international students or why internationalize. This includes integrating global perspectives into everything. The curriculum, their day to day operations, and also in articulating the learning outcomes. So that's the first part, institutional level, level articulation of white. Have them. Number two, make sure that these departments or the centers like the center for Global Engagement International center are very well staffed and resources are provided. Only then can we talk about doing anything that would ensure student success. And we have to make sure and recognize that these students whom we accept to be part of our community, know nothing about our community. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:12:47]: They're coming into a new land, a new culture, culture of the land and culture of the organization. With just a suitcase and some dollars in the pocket, we then have the responsibility to integrate them into the community, not expect them to assimilate, integrate them into the community and then also make sure that we provide the added resources for them to be successful. Be that navigating the cultural differences or understanding the education system. You know, plagiarism is a major issue here, but in a lot of countries, you are required to plagiarize. You have to memorize and literally write the same thing on the paper and submit it. So we have to make sure that the campus community understands those cultural differences as well. Finally, we also have to make sure that these students are given and extended the opportunity to learn from each other. It is just not the international students having the responsibility to teach or engage the domestic students, but from the domestic students also have the opportunity to engage with international students. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:13:52]: And what really happens, and this is just not in the classroom, but also outside the classroom where the perspectives are shared, they learn from each other. We always talk about higher education being the space to create innovators, but we are so slow to innovate ourselves. We do not. So we need to create the space where the students can be innovators in the sense that they are not being taught, just taught to solve today's problem, because they need to be taught how to solve the problems of tomorrow when they graduate, and not in their home country or hometown, but God knows where. So it is very important to make sure that the students, both domestic and international students, learn from each other and provide that conducive environment where they can learn from each other, contribute towards a common cause, and that's important. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:41]: I think one of the most difficult things in welcoming international students into the community is that we also often do not focus on the domestic students that are on our campuses who are also going to be learning alongside students from a different cultural perspective. So we're in a space where our domestic students are for the very first time meeting people from across their home state, perhaps, or from a different type of city than they're from, or from a different type of community. And so there's so much emotional and intellectual growth happening in that space that we, we all know about from a student affairs lens. But then when we add the dimension of international perspective, a lot of times we're working with a space where maybe perspective taking is really difficult, because I have no conceptual foundation for understanding what life is like in a different part of the world, which you don't to visit a place to build that understanding. But I think that can help. But looking at all of that in combination, how do you support the journey of domestic students engaging with international perspectives so that the onus is not on that international student to always be teaching? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:15:40]: Thank you very much for asking this question. And my short answer for that is intentionality. Both at the formal and informal curriculum. What happens in the classroom and outside the curriculum? Outside the classroom, what we call the student affairs or co curricular activities. Let's take the classroom. Very often there is this assignment which is focused on the dominant culture. Even in group project, they're given a project that addresses the problems of the local region. What if the faculty reaches out to the student and really encourage, motivate them without intimidating and without calling upon them. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:16:15]: Encourage these international students to share the impact of these within that cultural context. Any of the problems or any of the solutions within the cultural context. In my doctoral classes, this is something that I was doing a lot. The faculty would be teaching, the students would be responding to a lot of those domestic issues. And I would intervene and say, you know what? Yes, but how about these and other cultures or other systems or in other higher education systems. This won't work. The tenure or the academic freedom and all those things do not work in many other cultures or in many other countries. So to be able to provide. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:16:50]: But the faculty also provided me the space to have the conversation. I could challenge. Even at the graduate level, doing my Masters, I could challenge lot of those dominant notions. And the faculty provided me that opportunity to challenge those. So there was intentionality. So I think it is we have to put an intentional effort to one engage those global or diverse perspectives, but then also make sure that the doors are open for the domestic students to receive it. So it is not a one day, one off. This needs to be scaffolded. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:17:23]: And this has to be a continuum from the day the students comes onto the campus. It's not a matter of a class, it is the entire program. And this also really gets into much larger, I do not know, philosophical or structural thought. We have these concept of majors based on the faculty expertise. History faculty has history majors. Biology faculty have biology majors. But if you're really talking about solving problems, where does that fit into that major and expertise? And that is where this intentionality needs to come into play. Where one can share and other can receive. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:18:03]: And if anybody believes that this can be done in one class one day or one semester. No, this has to be intentionally woven in to the academic programs. And this also applies to student affairs. Something that I have noticed is as an international student, when I came in, I did not see a space for my opinion or my perspective at all. Because they were talking and everything was about the dominant culture, the diversity, racism and all those things. I did not have a room. So I didn't feel belonged. That's when I started working with the chief diversity officer at my university and saying, okay, where do I fit into these conversations? I had some experience. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:18:37]: I had about seven, eight years of work experience, and I could relate to the staff and faculty. So I was able to have these conversations, and that made a huge difference. So the intentionality is the key in. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:48]: Both the spaces, that important conversation around whose culture is being discussed and whose culture is being included. I often have seen international students say that they need to really be quite assertive in order to recognize, represent a different perspective in the classroom or a different perspective inside of student affairs or wherever that might be. So I'm wondering if you can share an example or a moment when you saw that part of student affairs or part of academic affairs did a really good job of supporting perspective taking and inclusivity on global perspectives. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:19:19]: Absolutely. This is at my previous institution when I was working as the associate director at Indiana State University. So I did a lot of student engagement initiatives. And for me, it was very important that I'm just not creating another silo of. Of international student and that silo and all the others. So my effort was to bring everybody together, the entire campus student body, and we had the vice president for student affairs, I have to name him, because I think he played a very important role, and this is a recognition to what he has done for the international student and domestic student experience. Nolan Davis. I went to him, had quite a lot of conversations about what I do, why it is important, and I had no monies at all to do any of the student engagement. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:20:01]: A lot of those programs that we did was done with very little or no funds at all. So these conversations really led to recognizing that we both are doing the same thing. I'm doing it from the academic affairs, he is doing it from the student affairs, and he has a responsibility for a lot of the outcomes that I really do. So by the end of that year, he provided a substantial amount of funding to engage both domestic and international students within that common space. So one of the events that I did during that time was something called the Heritage Fair. And everybody does diversity fair, everybody does international fair. It is about defining the us versus them. You know, let me tell you who I am, and diversity within its own context of ethnicity or the skin color. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:20:49]: So one day I went out to a common area and randomly asked about 20, 25 students what. What they understand when you use diversity, what they understand or what is their interpretation of international and what their interpretation of heritage is. Now, I didn't pay much attention to what they said I was only looking at the kindnesses. So when I said diversity, their hands went out. When I said international, the hands went out. But when I said what does heritage mean? The hands from far came to them. It is about me. So then that year we are organized the heritage fair where everybody had a space. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:21:27]: It was not about ethnicity, it was not about race, it was not about skin color, nothing. Everybody has a heritage. So we created that space where by the second year we had almost,500 people attending those events. And the second or third year we spent almost $25,000 in organizing that event. And then further again, it's scaffolding and ongoing. The same VP provided funds to develop student leadership development program where we brought both domestic and international students together and did a year long leadership program where we did a lot of conference sessions, did some team building, and then students had to complete a project. And one of the project was a no food waste project in collaboration with Sodexo that saved a lot of money and saved a lot of food. That particular student who led that program was one who, he went during his interview for Amazon, asked the interviewers, you asked all these questions of what I can do for the company. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:22:24]: Now let me ask you this, what can you do for me? And he was hired immediately there. So these opportunities really bring out the best of the students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:33]: I think this leads us nicely into our theme questions for the season on the value of student affairs. So these are the three questions that we've been asking all of our guests. And the first one is, is when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:22:47]: So early in my conversation, I said about the academic degree and an education. The true power of higher education lies not simply in the academic degree. One earns a credential that one can carry around or hang it on the wall, but in the depth of transformation it can foster within and to others. An authentic education is not a static process, but a living influence. It shapes how you perceive the world, navigate challenges and engage others. It endows you the curiosity, the adaptability and critical wisdom that persists long after commencement. In essence, it is not the degree you carry through your life, but the education that steadfastly carries you, sustaining growth, resilience, purpose in every chapter beyond the classroom. So I think student affairs is in that position where they can be the lab that might transform an academic degree to an education. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:23:48]: And this is also where the philosophy of Ubuntu comes into play for me. I am because we are. It expresses the core idea, a person's humanity is shaped and defined through relationship with others. In other words, our individual identity and well being depends and contributes to the community as a whole. I think for me, this is the foundation of student affairs. Student affairs can be the lab where you are providing the opportunity to engage with real life problems and solve them without being afraid of being failing. Because this is a place where you can engage students, you can engage community, you can engage perspectives, cultures, you name it, and where students can get to know what what the solution. In the classroom, they may be able to come up with a solution that might give them the grade and pass them the class. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:24:46]: But once we provide these students an experiential learning opportunity or engaged learning opportunity where they can really solve the problem in real life, they might fail, but every single failure is a learning opportunity for them. So that's the space that it holds. But then also we need to really look at a much larger problem that we have. Our education or our academic degrees are founded in career and not in problem solving. Even within career, we talk about career readiness and this is within the student affairs space, we talk about career readiness and career preparedness. What does it mean? Listen, you paid me for all these services. In return, I'll make sure that you can get your first job. How about employability? So there are those big questions that we need to ask and we focus on the problems of today. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:25:33]: By the time the student graduates, the that problem is obsolete or it's gone. There's a new problem and the students are not ready to attack those problems. And now there's so much of talk and so much of buzz about AI. Yes, first it was like virtual learning or online learning. That is in a big way eliminating the need for interaction and engagement. Yes, it is convenient, it is cost effective both for students and for institutions of higher education. But what is it? We are really lacking the human interaction. And now we are talking about meta varsity. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:26:07]: All that you need to do is wear it. And then you can see the teachers, you can see the faculty, and you can feel everything. Where does that space for them to engage and learn come in? And that's where I think the value of student affairs lies in. They need to be focused on student support, fostering personal growth and development. And for me this is very important. Fostering a sense of belonging and community and fostering wellness, safety. And definitely look into that much larger picture of are we providing an education or are we offering an academic degree that could potentially get them to a job? Not per se, a career and employability. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:48]: Our second question can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:26:54]: It's my experience here as an international student. As I said in the initially in India, we spoke multiple languages, we interacted with people from all around the world, networking, everything happened. But you never thought about any of those things because it was part of your daily life. It's when I came here, when I really realized the importance of that gain the perspective building and gaining those perspectives and its application and its implementation. And I think I was able to really gain those insight and translate my experiences within the student affairs space and then today apply that when I am working in this field. So I think that lived experience and having a lot of opportunities to talk to professionals in student affairs was very important for me personally. If I really put in simple sentences, it was really taking in my lived experience and translating it into educational experience and career competencies. And that was very much reflected in my job interviews. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:27:53]: If I had not really looked at it through the lens of student development theory and the student affairs, I would have had a very different kind of response. Even sometimes I wonder, I might not even have brought up a lot of stuff because it's for granted. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:06]: Our third question, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:28:13]: I think student affairs needs to articulate, develop or enforce its own identity. This I want to say might be. It's my feelings, but I think we are growing under the shadow of the faculty being considered the university and that we are this co curricular that provides auxiliary services. And again I'm using this word. I think it is important that at an institutional level and as a field, we need to create an identity of our own in student affairs not as the allied services, but as essential service that we provide that ensures student success and also that ensures that the students have this educational experience. Earlier when I said the faculty as the university, what I was trying to say is that the delivery of the formal curriculum is a core essence. It is important, it is very important. But it equally important is student affairs. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:29:11]: I was recently I was just looking at where the growth is in terms of nations. On average, E7 countries added 2% GDP growth, whereas the top 10 fastest growing economies had had 22% growth. And these were countries in Asia and Africa. So down the line we can really say that these job opportunities and growth there is a significant increase in potential opportunities in employabilities or employments abroad or to engage with other countries. So the question is, are we, the student affairs, playing a role in ensuring that the student can really tap into that opportunity? And then now moving with a list of few things that we really need to do is we really need to see the make sure that the programming or the engagement that we have, the learning outcomes really align with the academic learning outcomes as well. We can't also be in isolation and in silos. We have to make sure that there is collaboration and alignment of what we do purely in terms of learning outcomes. So if our learning outcome, the student affairs learning outcome has to align with the learning outcomes of academic programs, we need to, and this is something that I think most universities and most institutions really lack, is partnership with the faculty and aligning with their specific learning outcome and making sure that they are engaged partners in this process? Very often, again, they don't see a need to engage with us and we don't see a need to engage with them. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:30:47]: And that is really getting into the way. We need to create space to integrate and bring in diverse perspectives. We need to be able to articulate the, the purpose and outcomes of student affairs at the institutional level and at the community level. You know, very often we don't articulate and we don't sing praises and songs about how the student affairs contribute to recruitment, retention and graduation. And even at the programmatic level, one of the successes that I had is I always gave the ownership of everything that I did to the students. I was at the background, but the students were the leading force behind a lot of those things, which really help with the leadership skills and all those things. A real world experience. We need to be able to tell students success stories, especially alumni. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:31:35]: We have noticed that we always talk, you know, use the stories from our current students. And in my experience, what I've seen is the current students, I wouldn't say, for a lack of a better term, let me use a shallow, but it is like they are providing testimonies and they are reflecting on that experience that they had in the last six or eight months. Whereas when you talk to an alumni, they have a much deeper reflection, not only about their experience, but its application and how it brought them to, to where we are today, which aligns very well with institutional mission of advancement and networking opportunities for the current students and all those things. So we need to engage alumni and their stories also. And then as I mentioned earlier, student affairs have to recognize that they have a huge role to play in employability and career readiness because it is what takes a student far, is not an academic degree. It is the education that we offer. And finally, this is again the assessment and evaluation. We need to be able to assess what we are doing and if it is achieving it, it has to match. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:32:38]: Every single day you get a satisfaction survey. How satisfied were you? But we need to go past that and we need to assess the outcomes and then also evaluate the programs that we do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:49]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:55]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in naspa. You have an opportunity right now to submit a proposal for a new book that is being worked on. This book is called Transforming Mental Health in Higher Education Leadership Strategies and Innovative Approaches. The editors of the book are Thaddeus Montero, Ryan Travia, and Marcus Hodling following the pandemic, the mental health crisis has continued on US Campuses. Data from Healthy Minds from the data from the Healthy Minds Study show that between 2020 and 2021, student flourishing showed a 32.5% decrease among all students from 2013 to 2021 and that greater than 60% of students met criteria for one or more mental health problems problems, a nearly 50% increase from 2013. It's anticipated that these type of critical impacts on student mental health, impacts on student mental health, and concomitant effects on student success and academic achievement will continue into the foreseeable future. As mentioned, we are inviting chapter proposals for the upcoming edited volume examining the leadership strategies and innovative approaches to mental health, health service delivery and higher education, with a particular focus on post pandemic transformations in counseling center operations, institutional mental health frameworks, and community based approaches to student well being. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:28]: This comprehensive work will analyze contemporary challenges, including mental health policy implications, evidence based treatment modalities, which include stepped care frameworks, telehealth integration, embedded counseling models and more, crisis intervention models, resource allocation strategies and pedagogical integration of faculty as mental health allies within institutional ecosystems. The editors are seeking empirically grounded contributions from counseling center administrators, student affairs practitioners, faculty scholars, and clinical researchers who can provide theoretical frameworks, methodological innovations, and applied research findings that advance our understanding of contemporary collegiate mental health service delivery. This is an open call to practitioners and scholars from across disciplines in higher education. Individuals or collaborators with expertise, interest, or experience in any of those content areas are encouraged to apply. The proposal deadline for this opportunity is January 30, 2026. I highly encourage you to explore this for yourself and you can find out more on the NASPA website or through the most recent weekly update from NASPA itself that came out. While the early registration deadline for the NASPA Annual Conference has passed, the regular registration deadline is still open and there are an amazingly wide array of programs that are being offered during this conference. Recently, the Conference committee did provide all individuals the opportunity to explore the entire schedule of the conference and in looking through this conference schedule, there is something for everyone in the student affairs field. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:14]: I am hoping that you've had the opportunity to register because we are all so excited to share the fabulous learning and engagement opportunities that have been planned for you and hope that you're looking forward to inspiring keynotes, dynamic pre conference workshops and the wide range of educational sessions, as well as reconnecting with colleagues and friends. With so many sessions that will inform, challenge and energize you in the work that you do, we hope that you will still be joining us. If you haven't already registered to be able to come to the 108th NASPA Annual Conference, you can find out more on the NASPA website. Did you know that as a part of your membership within naspa, there are seven scholarly journals that you have an opportunity to take advantage of? The journals include the Journal of College and Character, the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education, the Journal of First Generation Student Success, Technology and Higher Education Emerging Practice, Community College Journal of Research and Practice and Change, the Magazine of Higher Learning Learning. All of these scholarly journals are peer reviewed and there are opportunities for you not only to learn and to grow in your own work, but also opportunities to be able to share with others. So I highly encourage you to explore all of these amazing resources. You can find them on the NASPA website by going under Research and Publications and clicking on Scholarly Journals. Finally today, a call out and encouragement to have you check out all of the knowledge communities that are a part of the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:02]: I know I've mentioned this over the years, but the knowledge communities are your gateway to the association with over 30 different communities that have been developed over the years to be able to offer you an opportunity to learn and grow with others that have similar passion areas to yourself. It is a great opportunity for you to be able to find a niche and find a community that you can connect with and be able to build lifelong friendships within. It's very easy to join these communities. All you do is go into your profile within the NASPA Portal portal and you can update and get information on any of the knowledge communities and join any of the knowledge communities. You could join all of them or only one. But I encourage you to find at least one knowledge community that you would like to be a part of. At the NASPA Annual Conference, we will be celebrating the Knowledge communities because we're coming upon a large milestone and it's a great opportunity to be able to celebrate the amazing work. After 25 years of being a part of NASPA, I've had the opportunity to be involved with knowledge communities for many of my years within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:24]: And I continuously am learning and growing from people within these areas that are bringing not only their passion, but also their commitment to people in the association, to students at our universities and more. So I highly encourage you to find find at least one knowledge community to join today and find a new way to be able to connect with the association on a deeper level. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the Association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members, members, and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the Association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:14]: Thank you so much, Chris, as always, for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around naspa. And Zachariah, we have reached the Lightning Round portion of our show. So I've got seven fun questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to go? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:28]: Yes, I am. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:29]: All right, question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:34]: Sorry, I can't think about one Question. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:36]: Two When you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:39]: I wanted to be an engineer. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:40]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:43]: Betsy Hein, Dean of Library at Indiana State University. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:47]: Number four, your essential Student affairs read. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:50]: Whatever it is, I am against it. Rosenthal. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:53]: Number five the best TV show you've been binging lately. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:56]: CNN News. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:58]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:42:02]: Not much. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:03]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:42:07]: Believe in yourself. You are the change. Be the change. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:10]: Zachariah I have so enjoyed learning from you today and hearing your insights on international education and student affairs. If anyone would like to connect with you as this episode airs, where can they find you? Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:42:21]: My email address is z matthew matthew with 1t@umich edu that is z m a T H E W at U m I c h. Zachariah, thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:33]: So very much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:42:35]: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. As I said, truly an honor that you consider me worthy of this opportunity. Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:46]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:16]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

12/18/25 • 45:08

Student Affairs professionals often serve as the heartbeat of a college campus, shaping transformative experiences for students at every stage of their educational journey. In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, host Dr. Jill Creighton is joined by Colleen Maeder, Director of Student Services at Miracosta College's San Elijo campus. Together, they deliver an insightful discussion on the unique value of student affairs—especially within community colleges. This episode masterfully details Colleen Maeder's multifaceted career spanning both two-year and four-year institutions, public and private, on both coasts. Dr. Jill Creighton highlights how Colleen's trajectory allows her to offer a "bird's eye view" of why student affairs work truly matters. One major theme centers on the personalized and community-focused approach at community colleges. Colleen Maeder emphasizes that student affairs at these institutions must deeply reflect the local community's needs—whether serving traditional-aged students, adult learners stepping back into education, seniors, or those facing significant basic needs challenges such as food or housing insecurity. "Everything we do should be a reflection of the community that we are in," she explains, illustrating the importance of adaptability and empathy. Another critical topic is the evolving role of technology, specifically Artificial Intelligence. Both Colleen Maeder and Dr. Jill Creighton recognize AI's double-edged potential: while it evokes new concerns about academic integrity, it also offers opportunities for innovation in supporting and reaching students. Despite challenges, the human element of care and personal connection remains irreplaceable. Building trust and fostering belonging remains at the core. Many community college students have faced systems that let them down, making it vital for student affairs professionals to be truly present. Colleen Maeder discusses the imperative for in-person support, consistent follow-through, and programming tailored to diverse populations and needs. The episode also addresses a persistent challenge: effectively communicating the value of student affairs. Too often, student affairs professionals are "really, really bad at this," Colleen admits. She calls for improved storytelling—sharing real, transformative moments and personalized successes—to enhance understanding both within and outside higher education. If you're searching for inspiration, practical insights, and a celebration of the deeply human work at the heart of student affairs, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to hear firsthand stories and advice from passionate professionals who are shaping the future of higher education—one student at a time. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:27]: Today on SA Voices, we're welcoming Colleen Maeder. Colleen earned her Bachelor of Arts in Sociology from Lemoyne College and a Master of Science in Community Counseling from Syracuse University. Her journey in higher education began as a resident Director at Binghamton University and the College of New Jersey. She later discovered her passion for community colleges while serving in the conduct office at Kingsborough Community College in New York City. Colleen transitioned to the private sector at New York University, where she advanced to Associate Director for Student Conduct and Restorative programs, focusing on Title IX conflict resolution and restorative practices. Her career then took her to the west coast where she served as Associate Director for Student Wellbeing at Santa Clara University, supporting non clinical mental health and basic needs. Today, Colleen is the Director of Student Services at Miracosta College's San Elijo campus and Deputy Title IX Coordinator. Her portfolio includes student life and leadership, student government conduct, Title IX behavioral intervention, and basic needs support. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:19]: Outside of work, Colleen enjoys yoga, running, hiking, and traveling with her partner. Colleen, welcome to Essay Voices. Colleen Maeder [00:01:26]: Thank you so much for having me today, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:28]: It is just such a pleasure to have you on the show. For our Essay Voices listeners. I used to host a different podcast for another professional association, and Colleen was our audio engineer and co producer on that show. She and I pretty much had no idea what we were doing when we started it, and by the time we were finished, we had produced 45 episodes. That was an oral history of that corner of the profession. And so it's really lovely to be reunited with you in podcast land. Colleen Maeder [00:01:51]: I am thrilled to be here and I can't believe we did. So you said 45 episodes? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:54]: Something like that? Yeah, about 45. Colleen Maeder [00:01:56]: That is an insane amount of episodes. But it was an awesome experience to do and learn something I never tried before. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:01]: And even though Colleen has spent so many hours behind the scenes doing editing, this is her first time in front of the mic. So we're glad to have your voice included in the story of the student affairs profession. And we always like to get to know our guests first by asking you, how did you get to your current seat? Colleen Maeder [00:02:17]: Absolutely. So I think I started as mosted where I was a resident assistant in undergrad for my junior and senior year and didn't quite know what I wanted to do. So I decided to go to grad school, which was the common thing back then. And I got my master's in counseling and was unlucky to graduate right in 08 during the crash that took place and decided to work in res life because that's what I knew, that's what I liked, that's where I felt at home. So I became a residence director at Binghamton University. I had the experience of overseeing a residence hall that was a break housing building. So it was open all year, it never shut down. And the main students that it held were international students and student athletes. Colleen Maeder [00:02:58]: So very unique combination of students there to manage in a residence hall and living together in suites. From there I went to the College of New Jersey, which is a public school, four year school in New Jersey, of course, where I was a resident instructor for several different buildings there. Absolutely loved it and had a phenomenal experience working with our Office of Student Conduct and was really able to start with the assistant director at the time, Elizabeth Gallus Mediation Program, and just kind of fell in love with that world, fell in love with student and how do we become educational? How do we resolve conflict without getting to student conduct? And from there that led me to my first experience outside of residential life, which was at Kingsborough Community College where I was a student conduct officer. Really unique, normal title, Student conduct officer. You don't hear that a lot. And it was this community college in Brooklyn. The claim to fame that I used to tell people was we had a beach on campus, loved it there, did a lot of work, really, really enjoyed the community college experience, which we'll get back to where I am right now. But from there I switched and went to nyu, so New York University, right in the heart of New York, and worked in their student conduct office where I met you. Colleen Maeder [00:04:09]: I mean, we started the podcast and really was there all the way through Covid 2021. Loved the experience and I was in the student conduct office, but I focused heavily in the world of Title nine. I did a lot of work with our Office of Equal Opportunity, oversaw hearings, started a conflict resolution process, did a lot of conflict resolution training. So a very unique position in the world of student conduct that I haven't seen many other place. Loved NYU but really wanted to get out of New York City after Covid. So in 2021 I had the opportunity to work at Santa Clara University, which is up in the Bay Area south of San Francisco as the Associate Director for Student Wellbeing in the Dean of Students office. And it was non clinical mental health. Absolutely. Colleen Maeder [00:04:51]: Loved it. It was a bucket list item for me to work at a Jesuit school. Cause I went to a Jesuit undergrad and I was lucky enough to meet my partner in the Bay Area who was transferred down to San Diego, which is how I got to Miracosta. Currently the Director of Student Services at our San Leo campus and I'm also a deputy Title IX coordinator here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:10]: One of the things I love about your experience is that I think you're one of the few in the profession that have transitioned from a two year institution to a four year institution, to a two year to a four year and back to a two year. And you've also worked at both public and private institutions. So you've got this incredible diversity of experience in student affairs, which gives you kind of a bird's eye view in a unique way of why student affairs matters and why it has mattered over time. So this season we're focusing on the value of student affairs and I'm wondering if we can hone in a bit on your community college experience. And can you talk to us about what you can say about the community college experience as a professional compared to your experiences at four years? Colleen Maeder [00:05:51]: Absolutely. And I have been lucky enough to work at two different community college experiences. In some way they are very, very similar in the sense that student affairs at a community college needs to actually represent the community where you are. So my college is located in North County, San Diego right now. Kingsborough Community College was located in Brooklyn. Everything we do should be a reflection of the community that we in. So who are the students that we're serving? What are their needs? What are we worried about? How do we help them be able to come to our campus, get to our campus, be able to take classes, whether it's online, hybrid or in person. What does that look like? What does the student experience look like? When I was at Kingsborough, this was pre Covid, right after Hurricane Sandy. Colleen Maeder [00:06:36]: That's going to look very different than a post Covid world. But we are really trying to what are the current needs to what our community is? And what do we think the current needs are going to be 5, 10, 15 years from now? And what do we need to do as student affairs to make sure that we are meeting not just the needs of our current students, but planning for the future because we should grow with our community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:57]: Having a beach on campus sounds really interesting until you realize there's a hurricane coming right at Your campus and the water level of your campus is right on that beach. Colleen Maeder [00:07:04]: I started directly afterwards. We had a nice. There was a lot of flooding. I was told after that experience. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:10]: Absolutely. So when you think about your current student population, can you tell us who they are? Your university or your college has multiple campuses. So who are the students that attend Miracosta and what are the needs that you're meeting as a community college student affairs squad that maybe you're seeing the four years not doing? Colleen Maeder [00:07:27]: Yes. So I will say Miracosta is a proud hsi. I'm very cautious saying that on a podcast right now, given the current political context. But we are a very proud hsi. We really want to make sure that we are serving all of our students. So we have anything from. We have the traditional student age population. We have adult students who are making the difficult choice to say, you know what, I'm going to step back from maybe my employment to go to school to better myself, to be able to then get a better job, to support my family. Colleen Maeder [00:07:56]: We are working with students who. We have a large population of seniors who come back and take classes. We have a high level of basic needs and food insecurity that we are helping with our students at. We have a black and Latinx population that we are supporting and wanting to continue to grow and nurture all of these populations because they are what makes up North County San Diego, and we are here to support them in having our students reach their dreams and succeed in whatever avenue they want, whether it is an associate's degree, an associate's degree to transfer. We do have a bachelor's program on campus. We have many certificate programs through our tci, which is our certificate location. So really finding the. What is it? What do we need to do to be able to support our students in whatever their goal is? And that's gonna look different depending on the student population, depending on the time of year, and depending on what their go. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:48]: With such diverse student needs, with ranges of populations from students that are earning their first degrees right out of high school to those adult learners that you've mentioned, how does a student affairs division organize itself to meet needs on such an individualized level while still kind of stratifying across administration like we know we have to. Colleen Maeder [00:09:06]: Absolutely. So I think some of it is just open lines of communication. It's not being afraid to pick up the phone and ask questions or say to a student, you know what? I'm not the person to help you, but I'm gonna connect you with this person in this office, and I'm gonna do that one handoff. Whether they're currently on my campus, walking them to that class, walking them to that office, whether it's sending that E introduction. I think it's also in terms of future planning, which Miracosta does this really, really well, is what does the future look like? What are kind of the signals that are going on outside of higher education that we need to pay attention to? How do we continue to support and what does that look like? How are we using our benefits? I think there's a lot of negative viewpoints right now on AI and how that's going to impact the workforce. But is there a way that we can utilize AI to better reach our students, to provide supplemental education, to be able to get them answers or help them through a process where we know higher education is complex? How do we make it less complex and easier for someone to understand, especially if they are first generation or returning to education and they've been gone for two decades, three decades? So what are we doing right now to make it easier for our students? And this is something where our division, we are across multiple campuses. We get together the senior leadership in our division once a month to be able to talk about some of these things. And I haven't always seen that on other places I've worked at. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:32]: You mentioned AI as a potential tool. I'm currently teaching a master's class on technology competencies and AI integration and student affairs. How are you all figuring that out on your campus? Colleen Maeder [00:10:43]: So I think the key word is figuring it out, and I think it's trial and error. I think it's one as professionals should be trying different AI tools so that we understand what the benefits are, but also what are some of the concerns? How do we have conversations with students from a purely basic level? I do student conduct right now, and we have academic integrity issues that are almost all coming from the use of AI. How are we teaching our faculty, teaching our staff, teaching our students to use AI appropriately? And I think the issue is no one has figured that out yet. So we're kind of figuring this out as we go. And I've tried the past month or two to try things with AI to see what students are using to understand kind of that perspective. And I think we have to also be early adapters of that. I'm not as early as other people, but I am learning it. I'm trying to figure out how to use it appropriately or use it when it can be an added benefit, but when you need to stop using it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:41]: We had Dr. Claire Brady on last season and she just wrote the NASPA AI report. And one of the things she said on the podcast is that higher ed is in danger of getting stuck in the academic integrity segment of AI without thinking about all of the other things that Gen AI could be doing for our campuses. I think that's such an important message. But I also understand that there are instructors and professors out there who are doing kind of keystroke analysis too, and having students like show their progressive videos of them writing their essays instead of of seeing a copy and paste of a ChatGPT essay or something like that. But it's an interesting lesson in cognitive development. I also saw a study recently that there's cognitive decline in people who use regular aigen for kind of solving problems rather than trying to think through the problem themselves first. So we've got a lot to kind of negotiate through how AI can benefit us, but I think it's not going to be able to replace that human element of care and that human element of empathy that we really employ in student affairs more than any other skill. Colleen Maeder [00:12:37]: Absolutely. And I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole the other week when I was doing some research for a work project about loneliness and just how much loneliness can be tied to social media and AI. If you're just gonna rely on AI, you're losing the human interaction of engaging with someone to find out that answer to think critically about. Oh, here is all this information. Am I gonna challenge it? I'm just gonna automatically assume that it's correct. And we know AI is not always correct. So how are we balancing using that while understanding the loneliness is on our eyes and the impact that it has to our marginalized communities as well as education, social media. And it's just so this interconnected web of everything, this is a total aside. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:17]: But I also read something recently where someone had married an AI chatbot or something to that effect, and then the company that ran the chatbot shut down or was bought and the AI was no longer being updated. And so that person essentially lost their relationship. And it's an interesting question to on how you define a relationship with an algorithm at the end of the day. So, total aside. But I know if these things are in the media, that our students are also experiencing them. Colleen Maeder [00:13:43]: Absolutely. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:43]: Colleen, you've spent time at both the two year experience and the four year experience, and you've talked a bit about how the two year experience is a lot more personalized and tailored. I'm wondering how you are different as a Professional when you're in each type of environment. Colleen Maeder [00:13:57]: Yeah, I think that's a great question. Where it's my values haven't changed with whether I'm working at a four year public, a four year private versus a two year. But I think it's how you go about and how you interact with students and with others while also trying to navigate. Most two years are public institutions and there's a lot, at least in California you have ed code. So you're constantly of what is current ed code, what is the law as well as in how do you serve students and how do you work with them on that. And I think I'm gonna speak in very broad strokes. I think sometimes the needs at a community colle are much more basic than when you're at a four year private institution that is primary residential for the first year or two. I think at a community college it's you have to build trust. Colleen Maeder [00:14:43]: I think there's a mistrust of higher education. There's why is higher education important? And I think the students who tend to go to four year schools at first know that there is an inherent benefit of going to college. Going into higher education where I feel like at a community college sometimes it's this, okay, I know I need to get the degree, but how do you explain to them the services that we have can help you do better, can help you succeed. So sometimes it's like we're the safety net. When you are at a community college or four year institution and you don't have enough food on the table, you're not going to do as well as you would if you had enough food and nutrition. If you are worried about where you're going to sleep at night, if you're worried about the safety of your family, if you're worried about an eviction, that's all going to impact you in the academic state. So it's how do you really build that connection to have students trust you, trust the institution you're at enough to be able to help them succeed. And I think that can be a struggle sometimes. Colleen Maeder [00:15:41]: It's really trying to build those connections because we know what the issues are in our community. We have to help students overcome some of those issues and kind of lift them up to be able to support them in that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:53]: When you're talking about students who have high food security needs or housing security needs, you're probably also talking about people who have had the system work against them a lot in their lead up into being into your college. And so you're Asking those students to trust a system when systems have never been there for them in the past. What strategies are you using to help them engage with the system and then get them to work with you so you can support them? Colleen Maeder [00:16:19]: You know, I think the first thing is you have to actually be here in person. And I know remote work is wonderful. I've had. I worked remote during COVID I've had the opportunity at previous institutions to have one or two remote dates. But people don't want to talk to someone on the phone. They don't want to talk to someone via email. They want to actually see someone. They want to know that this person cares and that they're not being treated as a number. Colleen Maeder [00:16:42]: And I think that can be really difficult at times is how do we have this connection? How do we show up in person? How do we keep showing up? I think one of my biggest frustrations is if you have this mission and vision and these hallmarks of what your division should do, what your school should do, what your community college district should do, where are you actually following, following through on that? And I feel like these buzzwords that people say, well, you actually have to put that into action. You actually have to do that. And I think it's little by little, it's being visible on campus. It's following through on what you say that you're going to do. If we're going to say we're going to fund something, we're going to fund something. If we're going to say we're going to be there for students, we're going to be there for students, and really communicating that and rebuilding a lot of that mistrust that has been caused throughout the system. I think it's showing them and acknowledging we know not only this is potentially a cost to you, but it's also a cost in the sense that if you're going to class, you're not going to be at work. If you're going to class, who might be watching your children, if you have children, if you're going to class, if it's an online, we're assuming you have a safe space to take a class. Colleen Maeder [00:17:48]: We're assuming you have access to Internet. And I think it's a lot of these. How do we make sure we can get all of that to students? And this is something where Miracosta. I'm very, very privileged to work at an institution that believes in mission and vision and actually follows through on that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:03]: Anything interesting, innovative or exciting happening at Miracosta, that maybe other student affairs professionals Would love to hear about. Colleen Maeder [00:18:10]: Yeah, I think one of the things I just did was they have a CANVA course for open up to all faculty and staff and it's all about futures basically. What does the future look like? How do we pick up? And I mentioned this previously on these signals that might be coming up that we want to pay attention to. Not quite sure if it's going to lead somewhere, but if it does, an example is rewind. 10, 15 years ago with AI, there was an opportunity for all of us to get more on board with this. And what does that look like? What are our fellow colleagues across the world doing in higher education? I think it's paying attention to. We know right now in higher education that there is going to be a dwindling K through 12 population. We know that. How are we planning for that? I think that we know right now that mental health, at least for teens, that 18 to 24 year old, they're going through a mental health crisis. Colleen Maeder [00:19:00]: So are we staffing up our counseling centers? And what are we doing to help students feel like they actually belong on our campus? What programs are we doing? How are we connecting with students? How are we connecting students with other students? So it's all about what are we kind of looking at? What are the signals at play and then what do we do about it? And it's paying attention to the little stuff to then have that help develop whatever that strategic plan is going to be. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:25]: How are you all creating belonging when you know you have a population that's maybe on campus just for the moment they're taking class, or a population that's attending kind of all hours of the day, you might have students that are only there in the morning or students that are only there in the evening or only certain days of the week. Colleen Maeder [00:19:38]: Our campus, at least at the main campus, we have offices open until at least 7 o' clock at night. And I think that plays a big factor is having some of those extended hours. I think we're taking a look at how do we reach student populations that we might not have done a great job in the past. So we have an adult population, an adult population in the 30s, 40s and 50s. How you program and how you reach them is going to look very different than an 18 to 24 year old population. We have a high rate Latinx students. What are we doing to program towards them? We are an hsi. We can say we're an hsi, but we should be doing a whole host of things because we are a designated hsi. Colleen Maeder [00:20:15]: We are here to serve our students. And I think that is what gets lost sometimes. Where we are here solely for our students. Students, yes, it is great to be employed but if our students aren't successful then we're not doing our jobs. And I think it's constantly going back to we are here to serve our students and to help them get that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:33]: Degree to change gears a minute. As a person who's been at both kind of that traditional four year and that two year institution, what advice would you give for a four year professional who wants to transition to community college work? And what advice would you give to a two year professional who wants to transition to a four year. Colleen Maeder [00:20:47]: So that's a great question. One you should just do it. I think people get very, very comfortable in. I've always worked for a public four year institution. I'm only going to stay at public four year institutions or I've only worked at a community college. That's where I'm comfortable. I think if you want that experience, put yourself out there and do that and do your research. I think that. Colleen Maeder [00:21:08]: Well, I will say right now, I think across the board every institution of higher education right now is struggling with budget and funding. So I think that is a commonality right now. But when you go from a public to a private, a community college to a private for budgets can look very, very different. How you spend money looks very, very different. I think that public schools have a little bit more leeway at times when it comes to some things versus a community college where community colleges, we are public institutions. That means that we can have protests on campus, that people can come onto our campus and we can't ask them to leave unless they are actively violating and becoming disruptive. They have a right to be there. And that can be very frustrating. Colleen Maeder [00:21:47]: Especially if you've only ever worked at a private institution where it looks a little bit different. And some of the things you can do at a private institution you can't always do at a public institution and vice versa. But I think when it comes to a community college, if you want to work at a community college and I would encourage everyone to have that experience because I have loved it. I wouldn't have returned to a community college experience if I didn't enjoy my first time at one. But I think it's understanding that community college students may have greater needs and you're reaching them on a different level. At the same time you're going to have a greater impact than sometimes always working at a four year institution or a private institution. And I think it's understanding that students will come and go. It's not this trajectory of you start your first year on campus, you become a second year, then a junior and then a senior, and then you graduate. Colleen Maeder [00:22:38]: You might know someone who's working through to get their associate's degree and it takes them five or six years because they're living their life as they do this. And I think the celebrations become greater at a community college. I think being able to see students who really took the initiative, not that you don't take the initiative at a four year institution, but I think sometimes the risks are greater for community college students because they're not always the traditional students that has the family support. They're actually making that decision to go to school full time as well as work a full time job, as well as trying to raise a family. And it just looks a little bit different and you need to be cognizant of that. But I encourage anyone, if they're thinking about wanting to work at a community college, to absolutely take the risk, apply for that job. It is a phenomenal experience. And just as the flip side, I think people sometimes like, oh, I've only worked at a community college experience. Colleen Maeder [00:23:30]: I don't have that four year experience at a residential campus. Take the risk. It is a great experience. And I think the more experiences you get, the stronger it makes you as a professional to be able to support all students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:42]: I'm going to transition us into our theme questions for the season. So we've been asking all of our guests the same three questions on the value of student affairs. Our first question is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? Colleen Maeder [00:23:55]: So I really thought about this when you sent me this question because I don't know if we necessarily always talk about the value of student affairs. I think we talk around it, but we don't actually talk about the value of student affairs and the importance of student affairs. And I think for me it is, we are here to help students and individuals grow and develop both inside the classroom. So the academic sense as well as outside of the classroom. When you think of student affairs, depending on the institution you're at, it can include anything from advising to health services, to counseling and psychological service to public safety, college, police, athletics, career, internship, your basic needs, your residential life and housing, student conduct. It can be so wide ranging that we are kind of that. I'm not saying that lifeboat that can help students along, but also that springboard to help students try something new. I think it's that leadership opportunity that some of our students get. Colleen Maeder [00:24:50]: You know, our student government, our clubs in orgs, that experience there helps them figure out how they work in a team. What is this going to look like when they have a professional job and they have to work as a team? What does it look like when we're able to. We have food pantries on campus, we're able to provide food to a student to help them get through the next day or two so they can focus on their classes. What does this mean to the student athlete to also have strong academic counseling as well? It's this bullet both and, and I think this is where student affairs really is the supplemental experience to the academic that is just as important sometimes where we want them to get the degree, but we also want them to have this experience and have the services they need. So if they do struggle, we can help them overcome those struggles and get to that finish line. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:38]: Our second question is, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? Colleen Maeder [00:25:44]: I can't identify one moment, but I can identify the feeling I had during those moments. And it's this feeling of a student saying to you, I don't know if I would be here. I don't know if I would have been able to finish this class. It's the thank you for not giving up on me when everyone else did. It's the parent saying, thank you for being there for my student when I couldn't be. And it's this underlying feeling of I made that in something that student affairs did change the trajectory of this individual's experience to help them succeed. And I think it's the underlying things that we do that we don't realize we do on a daily basis, but all of us do so well. And it's across the division of student affairs that without that service, that connection, that relationship, that student might not have been able to do what they needed to do at that time. Colleen Maeder [00:26:37]: So for me, if I had to pick an experience, I worked with a student for two years at a prior institution and they really struggled adjusting their college life for a variety of reasons. And the student ended up writing a story and framed one of the characters around how they viewed me. And that was really like, this is why I do what I do. And I have to this day, and it's up on my wall right now, I have the drawing of the character as well as kind of the tagline next to the character that kind of reminds me of this is why student affair is valuable. It's this relationship, it's this connection. It's helping that student feel like they belong. And that for me is important. And that is why I think that we continue to do what we do. Colleen Maeder [00:27:20]: It doesn't matter if you work in career services. It doesn't matter if you're in athletics or campus safety or student conduct. We all do this for the reason of helping students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:28]: And our final question, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? Colleen Maeder [00:27:35]: We need to tell our story better. We are really, really bad at this. And I can say that even just answering the two questions before, and I was like, I know, I know what the value of student affairs is. I wouldn't have spent, I think it's 17 years of my professional life in student affairs if I didn't believe in it. But we don't tell our story well. We don't explain to non higher education folks, quite frankly, we don't explain to faculty half the time the value and the importance of student affairs. And I think this is only become more and more important as we see the attack on higher education continue, as we see budgets get cut as our future students determine whether or not they want to come to college. And I think that is huge. Colleen Maeder [00:28:16]: We have to do better at telling our story and who we are and not just saying, oh, come get a degree, because if you get a degree, you're getting a higher paying job. Well, that's not necessarily reflective in the data anymore. So we need to do better in the. And we needed to better about telling those individualized stories so students can see. I can see myself here, a faculty member can say, I can see the value of what student affairs brings and I understand the importance to that. So that to me is kind of we just need to do better telling our story. And also we need to change a little bit faster with the times. I think higher education is very reactive. Colleen Maeder [00:28:51]: Instead of being proactive as you're talking. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:53]: About telling our story, I think that's probably the number one thing I've heard repeatedly from all of our guests this season, which tells us it must be true. And if you're listening to this episode, but did if you didn't catch our episode with Dr. Ana Gonzalez, Dr. Lori Reaser and Dr. Michelle Murray, please go and listen to that one because they Just Co authored NASPA's latest report, the Human Dimension of College why Student Affairs Matters. And that also includes a toolkit that's right on the NASPA website where you can input your own data and use that as an external storytelling device for your senior administration that aren't in student affairs, for your local council people or whoever else you need to be telling the story to that's not internal. Because the number one thing I've heard over and over this season is that we're okay at telling our story to ourselves. We're pretty good at telling our story to our students, but we are terrible at telling our story externally, even to our own families. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:42]: So there's just so much that we can do there. So I appreciate you reaffirming that message for us anytime. Colleen Maeder [00:29:48]: I always laugh when people are like, how's school going? And I'm like, well, I haven't been in school for a very, very long time now, but work is going really well. Thank you for asking. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:56]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the the NASA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:02]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASA. We're getting really close to the early registration deadline for the NASA Annual Conference. The early registration Deadline ends on December 17, 2025 in Kansas, Missouri. We'll celebrate the essential heart work of student affairs and higher education. So we hope that you'll come together with us to uplift students, communities and each other at the 128th gathering of the Association. Interesting fact about Kansas City Kansas City earned its Heart of America nickname because it sits at the geographic center of the contiguous United States. And just as student affairs professionals create inclusive campus communities, Kansas City has built its identity on bringing people together. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:51]: From smoothie jazz, filling historic clubs to legendary barbecue that put Kansas City on the culinary map, this city celebrates both heritage and future, much like NASA honors our profession's roots while innovating for tomorrow. So at this national conference you have some opportunities, some opportunities to come out and be able to explore the city. Whether it's at the Nelson Atkins Museum or learning more about the Kansas City Current, which is pioneering the future of the Women's Professional Soccer League, or visiting the Negro League's Baseball Museum Museum, which honors athletes who changed the game and American history. These among many, many opportunities to learn and to grow and reconnect with friends and colleagues. The NASPA Annual Association Meeting is one you will not want to miss again. The annual conference is March 7th through the 11th in Kansas City, Missouri, and we hope to see you there. There's a new book coming out from NASPA that you can order today. Basic Counseling Skills for Higher Education Professionals Identifying and Addressing Men Health Concerns is a book that is being brought to you by Rebecca Schultz and Maureen Kenny. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:05]: When college students are in a mental health crisis, they often turn to a peer or a trusted faculty or staff member first. As the number of students struggling with mental health issues continues to rise, higher education professionals are called upon to do even more. Basic Counseling Skills for Higher Education Professionals equips college and university leaders leaders with the basic knowledge and skills to address and respond to students with mental health concerns. The authors provide foundational information on the signs and symptoms of the most common mental health issues educators are most likely to encounter in their daily work, as well as guidance on how and when to intervene. With a focus on empathy and core listening skills, this essential resource empowers professional professionals to make effective and positive interventions. As mentioned, this book is available for order right now. I highly encourage you to check it out for yourself. You can go online to the NASPA website under Research and Publications and go to the NASPA Bookstore to find out more. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:07]: Also, the early registration Deadline for the 2026 Symposium on Military Connected Students is coming up on December 19th. The 2026 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the Association's premier event event designed for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. The Symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization, learn from leading researchers in the field, and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This three day symposium features keynote sessions, research, policy and best practice presentations and workshop style sessions. Sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. We invite you to connect with colleagues, participate in engaging sessions and learn from dynamic plenary sessions. As mentioned, the early registration deadline is coming up on December 19th. The conference is February 17th through the 20th in Norfolk, Virginia. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:13]: You can find out more on the NASPA web website. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us we have to find our place within the association. Whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:29]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger each and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:40]: Chris, thank you so much for another phenomenal NASPA world. We always appreciate you keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASA and Colleen. We have reached our last segment, which is our lightning round, and I have seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to roll? Colleen Maeder [00:35:56]: We're gonna go with it. Let's go. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:57]: Question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Colleen Maeder [00:36:01]: Anything by Taylor Swift. I will just own it. I am a Swifty and I no shame in saying that anymore. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:07]: Question two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Colleen Maeder [00:36:10]: I had always wanted to do something in the criminal justice system. A criminologist, a detective. That did not end up happening. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:17]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Colleen Maeder [00:36:20]: So one of the people I look back at being really influential and I do not keep in touch with them as much as I should. And you actually know this person is Delmi Lindoff. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:27]: Delmi Lindof, Dr. Lindof is the VPSA at Pratt Institute in New York. It's the Institute of Art and she's an amazing professional. So. Hi Delmi. Number four. Colleen Maeder [00:36:35]: Hi Delmi. Miss you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:37]: Number four, your essential student affairs read. Colleen Maeder [00:36:39]: I will say anything. Restorative justice. I think that if you are going to be in student affairs, you have to be well versed in restorative justice and restorative practices. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:47]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Colleen Maeder [00:36:50]: So I'm the type of person that binge watches TV shows I have watched over and over and over again. So it would be the West Wing, which I always return to every couple years. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:58]: Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Colleen Maeder [00:37:02]: NPR up first and NPR Politics Now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:04]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Colleen Maeder [00:37:08]: Huge shout to my current team here at Miracosta, both the Sanaleo as well as the team up on the Oceanside campus that I work with, as well as shout out to two people at my prior institution, Ashley and Natasha, who are my support system, which I think everyone should have, is that support system that gets you through when the going gets tough. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:28]: Colleen, so glad to have your voice on this side of the podcast. You've done an amazing job representing the Community College Experience Experience today. If anyone would like to get a hold of you after this episode airs, how can they find you? Colleen Maeder [00:37:39]: Absolutely, you can reach me at C Maeder M A E D E Riracosta. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:45]: Colleen, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Colleen Maeder [00:37:47]: Thank you so much for having me, Jill it was an experience to be on the other side of a podcast. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:56]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by Nest naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening Listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:26]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

12/11/25 • 38:54

If you've ever wondered about the real impact of student affairs in higher education—or if you're searching for compelling ways to articulate its value—this episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" is a must-listen. Host Dr. Jill Creighton brings together three leading voices in our field—Dr. Anna Gonzalez, Dr. Lori Reesor, and Dr. Michele Murray—to discuss NASPA's groundbreaking report, The Human Dimension of College: Why Student Affairs Matters. More than ever, higher education is under scrutiny. Public questions about its worth, declining college-going rates, and increasing skepticism about return-on-investment are creating intense pressure. Against this backdrop, Dr. Anna Gonzalez explains, this report began as a "bold" effort to clarify—and elevate—the unique contributions of student affairs to both the value (market-based outcomes) and worth (intrinsic and societal benefits) of the collegiate experience. The conversation quickly gets to the heart of what makes student affairs essential. As Dr. Michele Murray points out, college isn't just about earning a degree or improving one's economic prospects; it's a profound period of personal and civic development. The panel identifies seven core dimensions where student affairs "animates" both the value and worth of higher education: career and academic development, civic engagement, access, health and well-being, leadership, innovation, and personal growth. Listeners will appreciate how candidly Dr. Lori Reesor and Dr. Michele Murray share their own personal journeys and the collaborative process behind the report. They emphasize the vital but often "invisible" work of student affairs—preventing crises, fostering dialogue, and guiding students through transformative moments. They also celebrate the report's new toolkit, which is designed to help professionals tell their story better to external audiences—presidents, trustees, legislators, families, and beyond. As the discussion closes, the call to action is clear: the time has come to showcase our impact on students and society, both quantitatively and through powerful stories. Whether you're a veteran or a newcomer, this episode offers insights, practical tools, and inspiration to help you articulate why student affairs is more valuable—and more vital—than ever. Ready to dive deeper? Listen to the full episode and access the toolkit via NASPA's website—start telling the story of student affairs in a whole new way! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host today on Essay Voices. We are thrilled to be welcoming the curator and CO authors of NASPA's latest report, the Human Dimension of College why Student Affairs Matters, which is perfect for our season on the value of Student Affairs. We've got three phenomenal student affairs professionals joining us today. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:45]: Our past board chair and curator of this report, Dr. Ana Gonzalez. Welcome, Ana. Hello. Dr. Michele Murray [00:00:52]: Hi. Dr. Michele Murray [00:00:52]: Hi Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: Lovely to have you back on Essay Voices. And if Ana's voice sounds familiar, she did one of our episodes in her board chair year. So you can go back to past seasons and check that out. Our second guest is Dr. Lori Reesers. Lori, hello. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:01:04]: Hi Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:05]: Good morning and welcome. Coming in to us from Wisconsin today And then finally Dr. Michelle Murray. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:11]: Michelle, hello. Dr. Michele Murray [00:01:12]: Hi Jill. Thank you so much for having us. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:14]: And Michelle, one of our good old region fivers. So we've got people from all over, all over the US today. So I want to get started by asking you all how you got to your current seats and then we'll dig into the reports. Ana, I know you've told some of your story before on our pod. You're still at WashU. Anything you want to add to your journey? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:34]: Yes, thanks, Jill. I'm still the Vice Chancellor for Student affairs at Washu. And now the last time I spoke to this podcast, I was actually the NASPA Board chair. I am now on my last year as a NASA board, as the board chair, pass board chair, recent passport chair. So I think that's all that's changed. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:51]: And Lori, it's your first time here on SA Voices. You were at UW Madison. What you have going on in terms of your journey and how you got to that seat. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:01:59]: Yeah, thanks, Jill. It's great to be on and my first podcast. So a little nervous but a little excited. I have spent almost my whole career in student affairs. This is my third ssao job and it was a way to continue doing the work as a student affairs leader, but also come back home to my home state of Wisconsin. So it's a win win for me and my family and just excited to be doing the work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]: And in our pre show chat I mentioned my mom is an alum of UW Madison, as well as all of her siblings and her dad. So I have to say, go bad on behalf of my fam. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:02:29]: Go badgers. Love it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:30]: And Michelle, welcome to our show for your very first time. We're excited to have you former region fiverr. Now region one person, tell us how you got to your current seat. Dr. Michele Murray [00:02:40]: Yeah, sure. So I'm at the College of the Holy Cross here in Worcester, Massachusetts, and it's my third Jesuit institution. My second time as the senior student affairs officer. But also at Holy Cross, I serve as the senior mission officer as well. So staying very busy and we like. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:57]: To see that VPSA em in combination. I think you get a much more unique perspective on the whole arc of the student experience when you're going from recruitment to graduation. Dr. Michele Murray [00:03:07]: Sorry, you know what? It's not admission, it's mission. So. So the Jesuit Catholic mission and identity of the institution. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:15]: Excellent. Well, we're here today because you all have put out the latest NASPA report. And Ana, this began as a charge under your board chairship. Can you talk to us about why this report? Why what drove the board in this direction to create this. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:03:31]: That's great. So when I got elected as board chair elect, I've been really. I was really thinking, where are we going in terms of as a student affairs as a profession? It was a time when people were saying they wanted to leave the profession. How hard it was a little past Covid and really thinking of the value of student affairs and why student affairs and why higher education. The numbers were shocking in terms of people not wanting to go to higher education, not believing in our. And then in many ways student affairs over the years being blamed or being shut down, but yet being needed when times of COVID or other disasters were happening. And so it was really trying to get the lay of the land to really respond and frankly to look up bold ideas about why student affairs is actually the value proposition in higher education and why I believe we bring worth to the institution of higher education. But is that right? Is that just my voice? And so getting really a group of experts in the field and then being led and tapping Michelle and Lori to lead that discussion has been like an honor for me. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:04:42]: And I just love how the report ended up to be. But it was really that response in my head thinking, what is the worth of higher education? And as a first generation college student, I always knew the worth. But it seems like so many people are questioning it now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:55]: Absolutely. And we're seeing a shift in how the value of higher education is being perceived across The US Right now in terms of what does the value of that education mean for everything from employability through positionality in society and other things. So this is very, very timely for what we're seeing. How did you select Lori and Michelle to be leading the charge forward? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:20]: They are brilliant. So I've known both of them in different capacities, met them both through naspa. Lori, during my first time as a senior student affairs officer, she actually invited me to be on a panel at a session. And then Michelle, she started kind of taking on different leadership roles, and so. And then culminating when she was the conference chair. I was always like, she's so cool. Both of them are so great and cool. Both of them also represent different regions, right? The east coast, the Midwest, large R1, and then a private Jesuit institution. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:55]: And so all of the things mattered to me. And so I wanted brilliant leadership and then different experiences in the field. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:02]: You started with a blank slate and idea to represent the value proposition of student affairs. What was the charge to Laurie and Michelle when you invited them to participate in this new adventure? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:06:12]: It was so funny because I come up with great ideas, and then I did get brilliant people to actually make it happen. And they did. But the charge was to think boldly, to really center the conversation in our contributions in this profession and in the world. Why does someone choose to go to higher education? Everyone gets a degree when you go to higher ed, or you hope to. But what are the unique things that actually enhance it? What increases the value of that education? And so I kept saying, it's student affairs, centering student affairs into dialogue, into discussion. And we've had some fun conversations. They were like, oh, this is going to be a little bold, a little scary. I'm not sure our other colleagues would believe it. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:06:56]: And so just kind of pushing that through. And they both said yes. And so I love that. And. And they both led the conversation in terms of making sure that the right kind of individuals, in terms of who they represented, really fit in the group. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:10]: All right, Lori and Michelle, you get the call from Ana. She says, please help us build this thing. Tell us what your experience was putting together the task force, as well as figuring out what the heck you were going to write about beyond this idea. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:07:23]: I'm happy to start. First of all, I'm a huge fan girl of both Ana and Michelle, so you can't say no to Ana Gonzalez. I think everybody knows that. And in all true confession and transparency, I didn't get her vision. I knew she had it, but I wasn't sure like, just like she said, like, what are we doing? Like, I get the concept, I get the. But, like, how are we going to do this? And I'm a little bit more on the operational kind of strength. I think of things. And so I think that's just a lesson to, honestly, to NASA members is sometimes you get asked and you're like, okay, I'm in. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:07:56]: I don't really. I don't think this is my strength. I really didn't. But then when she partnered us with me and Michelle, which was like, oh, my gosh, again, everybody knows Michelle Murray and the, you know, the savior of the NASPA conference and all these other things, I mean, it was just like, no. Yes, it's true. It's true. She's shaking her head. Anyway, it was just an honor and privilege and then to work with really amazing people, too. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:08:19]: Right. So that was the other gift, is that the three of us then got to put together our team. We wanted to really make sure that all regions were represented. Represented. It represented all types of institutions. And so then that made it really, really rich as well. And so I described us as kind of a think tank. And that was, again, really an honor and privilege. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:08:38]: And I think Ana might have been desperate in. In picking me to do this, but that's okay. It was fun. It was fun. It was good. It was a good stretch for me. It was a good stretch for me. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:08:46]: I'm going to interrupt to say the funny part is that I forgot to say why I picked Lori. She talked about Michelle's great, amazing, the conference, saving us and sharing that despite all Lori's strength is Lori asks questions. And so she always makes me think, like, we sit on other different boards and committees. And I love that Lori thinks things through and asks questions. She doesn't just say, this is how it's going to be. So that is why. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:09:13]: That's so sweet, Ana. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:14]: So my. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:09:15]: One of my NASA awards, I have a plaque over in my office says, ask the hard questions. And so thank you. Thank you for that. That's so sweet. Dr. Michele Murray [00:09:22]: I absolutely see that. And I think, Laurie, you and I were very different, but we work together so well, and I love that you do ask questions. You're also really methodical about how we go about things, and that helped us make sure that no stone was left unturned. And really attending to all the different intricacies that were a part of the discussions that we had, and you made sure that. That we accomplished our goals. Right. It just was really helpful, I think. Jill, your question was what happened when we got the call. Dr. Michele Murray [00:10:00]: So let me go back to that and say, yeah, I was surprised. Lori is 100% right. No one says no to Ana. So I knew that wasn't even an option. And I absolutely understood. I thought Ana was prescient in being able to identify that there's a public concern about whether or not it's worth it to go to college and what's happening at our at higher ed institutions. And I already had a concern for myself that were some populations of young people being discouraged from college attendance. And so having this opportunity to really dig in and describe what it is that happens for students when they pursue a degree was, I think, really very meaningful to me. Dr. Michele Murray [00:10:48]: And so, as Ana said, right. People attend a class college because they're hoping to get a degree. They work hard to earn that degree, and that's one piece of it. There needs to be of economic benefit in terms of employability at the end. And I get that too. And there is something that's happening during college attendance that's really about an informed citizenry, that's really about how people work and live together that is less talked about and less known. But still, as a society, we rely on all of that. We rely on that human development. Dr. Michele Murray [00:11:26]: So having an opportunity to think boldly with a group of colleagues about how might we represent this, this side of college attendance that isn't really talked about very much, how do we represent it fairly and in a way that people understand it and can get on the train and believe in its importance? I thought that was a really great vision that Ana had and I'm really feel really lucky to have been a part of it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:54]: I want to make sure we mention for NASPA members, this report is available for free with your membership. It was also sent out in an email earlier in October. So please go back and check it out and you can kind of follow along with our conversation. One of the things that's right up front in the report is the executive summary that distinguishes the importance and delineation of value versus worth. This is such an important component. Our season theme for the podcast is the value of student affairs. As soon as I read this, I went, oh, maybe we should have reframed this as both value and worth. And so I want to just read a moment in the report. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:26]: It reads, the value refers to the market based outcomes of higher education such as employment, income and economic security, Whereas worth encompasses the intrinsic and societal benefits of a degree such as civic participation, personal growth, and community vitality. Both are essential and both are strengthened by student affairs. Why did you all decide to anchor the report with this message? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:12:48]: I can start a little bit and maybe the two of you can jump right in there. You know, I've been thinking a lot about, as I thought about the podcast and this work, I had a trustee at my former institution at Harvey Mudd, and he did not have a college education, did not, and is executive vice president of a major, major corporation. And always said they just thought it was too late to get a college education. But he invests his time and money and energy in college education. And again, saying that there is something both the worth, right, you graduate. But more importantly, he said, there's something that is so valuable about college education that you can't put money on it. But the students learn to be leaders. And so I think in our discussion of value and worth, the different ROIs, what are they and how do we categorize them? But the value and worth piece did not come from me, although that's in a way what I was thinking. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:13:50]: We led to it. So Michelle and Lori can jump in there. But I remember it vividly. The conversation at my dining room table with the committee at my home. Dr. Michele Murray [00:13:59]: Let me jump in there. And Ana just referenced our first in person meeting. And maybe it was our only in person meeting. It was several days long and she opened her home to us. And so we had these very deep conversations about what is happening for students when they are enrolled in our institutions in a really comfortable, hospitable environment that allowed us to play with the different ideas and identify what it is that we observe and have been observing over the course of our careers. And very quickly, actually, we settled into this conversation about value and worth. And NASPA is doing its strategic planning concurrent to us having these conversations. And so maybe part of it was related to the conversations that NASPA was having separate from this task force. Dr. Michele Murray [00:14:51]: But almost very quickly, you know, we said there is something that's happening for students in their growth and development that has everything to do with their out of classroom experience. And that's the piece that we have to capture because the public conversation is about the worth of the degree and what happens around employability. And we were focused on how students, the only words I have for this is how they come home to themselves and discover a bit about who they are and how they want to be in the world. And so that's what we wanted to identify as. At least that's my recollection of how that all came together. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:15:32]: You can tell Michelle's Mission driven purpose in life always comes through which I adore and respect and admire so much. And that was a huge integral part of this project too, I think. Like Ana, I'm a first generation college student and going to college changed my life. I'm the oldest of six children. I'm the only one that finished college. And I love all my siblings and they have great lives, but they have different lives and in a lot of ways and so I'm grateful. And that's what propelled me to go into student affairs, that's what propels me to stay in this work, is that I truly believe higher education changes lives and I believe higher education changes society and democracy and all of those really important things. And I respect it's not for everybody. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:16:14]: I totally get that. And that's part of that narrative out there. So I do struggle a little bit with elitism and those messages that are coming out in our society or from some sectors of our society. And yet I think it should be be a core value of education. It should be a core value of learning. And so learning can happen in lots of different ways and lots of different places and with lots of different strengths. But it's learning either a subject matter, whether that's political science or biology, or how to be a great plumber, all those things are about learning. And then I think the other piece though, that that is where we do make this difference is about, as Michelle said, learning about oneself and one's community and the broader world as well. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:16:57]: And so that is the piece that I do have a bias that I think would be great that everybody does focus on that. And if they don't do it through higher education, okay, then I hope that they do it in some other forms. And maybe it's through their religious or other communities or some of those other kinds of things. But we have to get better in our society about caring more about others and respect and dignity for all of humankind. And I do believe that's a huge. I always struggle with the value and worth that's a huge worth that we provide in student affairs and through higher education. So those were some of the important things that we were trying to document. And I just want to give a quick shout out because I don't want to forget this. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:17:31]: And I know Michelle and Ana will jump in on this too. Brian Sponsler helped, was really, really instrumental and he was our consultant that worked with us on this project and a phenomenal thinker and writer. And I just want to, he really helped also, I think, shape some of this conversation and the value and worth. So we had a great committee and everybody contributed and they were all fabulous. But Brian absolutely deserves a huge shout out for the great work that he did. And so thank you, Brian, on behalf of us and NASPA, all of higher education. Dr. Michele Murray [00:18:02]: I 100% agree with that. Thank you, Brian. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:04]: Thanks, Brian. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:05]: Ultimately, you landed on seven dimensions that represent areas of student affairs and as you say, animate the value and the worth of our profession. They were career and academic development, civic engagement and community responsibility, access and opportunity, health and well being, leadership and ethical decision making, problem solving and innovation, and personal development and life skills. Our profession is hard to encompass and capture because we work with a lot of intangible pieces of the human experience, with mostly young adults and things like that. So I'm wondering, how did you choose these seven dimensions? Why were they the ones that rose to the top as the most important things to be talking about in the framing of value and worth of student affairs? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:51]: When we started talking about this in our, we call like we had a retreat, an in person retreat. You know, you can't do this work. You can't depend on just the virtual, right? We had to, to really cast it out a few days together. Although some were virtual, it was a hybrid, I guess. But to really sit down and really talk about what is going on in higher education and in student affairs and what is the why? I remember that. What is the purpose? What is the why? And what are people doing? What are the great issues that we were trying to address? And it was a long list. I mean, everyone kind of came in with roi, of course, career and what do we do dialogue. There's the issues of protests or people engaging with one another, all of the things. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:19:34]: And so we started doing that and it started categorizing it and we kept hashing and rehashing it out. And even I think midway through this project, I remember thinking, are we including everything in it? And even issues like well being, you know, we're known for that. And so we basically started with a blank slate of both what the expectations and the work of student affairs are, what the greater issues that we were trying to solve and address in our work. And then I think from there started piecing together groupings, but also hashing it out because an issue for students in community colleges might be different or look different than someone in an R1 and might have more weight than someone in an R1 and vice versa. So I'll start that off to say it was a bit of a, let's put everything on this white big board or whatever we were using. And let's start engaging and trying to figure out who are we, what are we trying to do, what is our value and our worth? What are the issues? I don't know if Laurie and Michelle want to jump into like the selection process of things. Dr. Michele Murray [00:20:41]: Hannah, you just described the process, I think really well. And, and I would say one of the things, you know, sometimes in student affairs people interact with us as crisis managers, right? Or as event planners. And all of that is true. And that's all there. And we're also educators, all of us have gotten into this as educators. And so we did have this conversation about what is the change that we see in students as a result of the work that we and our colleagues are doing with them day in, day out. And then it wasn't that difficult actually to get to the seven. I mean, everything grouped together pretty well. Dr. Michele Murray [00:21:24]: And then I think it took probably more time to make sure that we were using the accurate language to describe each of the categories than it did to actually create the categories themselves. So we wanted to be really careful about it. One of the things that I'll say that real affirmation point. Ana and our staff actually at WashU decided just kind of out of the blue, maybe in support of this project to gather a bunch of students and ask them on video, what does it mean to you that you're in college? Describe your experience, why is college worth it? And just those very open ended questions and the things that students said to describe their own learning and how they experienced the worth of their college attendance matched right along the seven dimensions that we had identified. And it was almost uncanny. You know, they weren't told what to say, they weren't prompted in any sort of way except for an open ended question. And what was really nice was to hear that the students, at least on Ana's campus, and then several of us went and did the same thing on our own to hear from our own students that how they experience their own growth and development and what's worthwhile to them about being in college and why this may be makes a difference to them are the things that are happening for them outside of the classroom and how they experience their own growth and development. So that I think more than anything said, we are definitely on the right track here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:56]: I think that's a great lead into my curiosity around how were the examples investigated, what were the methodology of the task force to decide that these are going to be what's represented to showcase these examples of the dimensions, because the dimensions could have gone so many different ways in terms of what data sets were being represented or what messaging would have been important. And the examples are amazing. So, yeah, can you talk about how those ended up being the ones that are shining? Dr. Lori Reesor [00:23:26]: NASPA was a great partner, of course, and supporter in this work. And again, a shout out to Stephanie Gordon, who was on the team and helped lead a lot of the internal operational aspects of it. So I would say that these sentiven impact areas were sort of this broader philosophical skills, attributions, outcomes that we were looking for. And then again, we wanted the programs that exemplified that. So NASPA used some of the programs that won some of their excellence awards, which was a national transition. Right, to lift those up. They've already been acknowledged and rewarded and recognized in that way. But what I love about this project is that NASPA has created a toolkit that all of us can then plug in our own programs to meet each of those seven things and really encouraged to do so because it's one thing to have this kind of national thing and it doesn't speak maybe to your local community, your local politicians, your local boards. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:24:22]: And we really wanted this to be, again, very, very practical and useful because this is such an important topic to talk to folks about and to educate them. And so I absolutely am so proud that we that NASPA created this toolkit. I can and I plan to will take this document and make it UW Madison focused. And I think Michelle's gonna do the same thing for the College of the Holy Cross and so in Wash U. Right. So, so then everything becomes more localized as well as nationalized. And I think it's just really a beautiful things. 100% want to encourage our colleagues to go online. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:24:55]: There's a website, there's all the stuff that's there. I think it's very practical, very, very useful. So the goal would be that there'd be hundreds or thousands of these documents that would be out there swirling amongst all of our states and local communities to do this education and make it very real and very, very practical for all of our colleagues across the country. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:16]: For our NASPA members to find the toolkit that Lori is referencing, just go onto the NASPA website and find the report that is labeled the Human Dimension of College Worth. And on that landing page, you can not only view the report, you can also click down to view the toolkit, which is right at the bottom of the page. There are some template links where you can add your own information. And it will pop and look as polished as the report that is currently published. And I really appreciate this activation because a lot of times we see things come out where we're going great, I've read this. Now what do I do with it or why does it matter to my campus or my local community? Or how do I tell the story to the president of my university or the other cabinet members at the university? And this gives a real tangible way to activate this work, which I think is just a great addition. Dr. Michele Murray [00:26:01]: And Jill, I want to pop in on that point and also give Lori a lot of credit because Lori first of all asked us over and over as a task force, how do we assess our work and where do we need to be better? And so the toolkit also includes here are the kinds of metrics that you might need to collect, here are the kinds of things that you might want to talk about. Some of us are better at assessment more systematically than others, but I think Lori's questions helped fuel we need to provide examples for how this work is done well and then how institutions might describe what's happening on the ground. And to your point, Jill, about explaining the work or the impact of the work to different audiences, we heard that loud and clear from our NASPA constituents. You know, our colleagues at naspa, we had a couple of sessions at annual conference in New Orleans and we heard any number of times that people would find this document the most useful if it didn't speak to us as student affairs people, but really opened up the world of what we're doing to educate students outside the classroom and helping them grow and develop and open that world to whether it's colleagues inside the campus, so members or people outside, whether that's parents or lawmakers, or if we need tools to talk to our trustees to help people really understand what's happening for students when they are on our campuses. So I really thank Lori for focusing us on the need to tell the assessment story, recognizing too that a lot of times we don't see what happens in the two years or the four years that a student is with us. The outcome is really five or 10 years later. And so going back to talk to our alums about the impact of their college going experience is an important part of that storytelling as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:03]: I'm going to give a shout out and reach back to Dr. Mike Sagawa who initiated this conversation on the NASPA podcast about telling our student affairs story better. And that episode is a couple seasons ago, so please feel free to go back and take a listen. Dr. Sagawa is a distinguished pillar of our profession and just an incredibly intelligent critical thinker voice in our field. I can't say enough positive things about Mike, so please go back and listen to that episode. Yes, but that theme of needing to tell our story better externally has been just absolutely prolific through this season of our show on the value of student affairs. Every time I ask one of our theme questions about what do we need to do to be better seen, the response is almost always we need to tell our story better. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:44]: And we have this ongoing joke internally in the profession that my parents don't even know what I do, which is kind of funny, but kind of not because it means that our profession isn't really understood by even many who have gone to college. So there's such a value in showing us how do we tell our story through this toolkit. It's just such an incredible tool to add. And so I want to make sure that our listeners, wherever you are in your professional journey, whether you be in your first year, whether you're a grad student or whether you're an ssao, have the opportunity to take this and to put it out to your communities in this way. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:29:21]: I love that. I think that when we think about telling our story and student affairs have used different ways to tell the story, but through another lens, right? Through academic competencies that we've taken on, through different things that stand up the role, which is great, our academic partners, but even they are like, okay, what do you all really do? Dr. Lori Reesor [00:29:41]: Right? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:29:41]: And we don't just serve. We work with our colleagues, we work with our students. We are co curricular. And what's exciting about this project, when my team read through it and we're working right now to insert it and for our chancellor to say the trustees need to read this and need to know what you. What student affairs does that the student experience is elevated as a holistic experience. And I think that's what one of the things that we do. We're not just the ambulances that take them when they're in crisis, right? That's the narrative that everyone knows. Earlier someone had said, you know, and then the activities port is it that our students are learning. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:30:21]: And so this is pushing it in a way that is our student affairs language. So I just really am excited about this project. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:27]: This project closes with a call to action. And normally when we see a call to action in a report, it's to us internally in student affairs. But this one is different in that it makes three external calls to action, which I think the Toolkit, again, embodies an opportunity on how to do that effectively. So the call is for leaders in public policy and private philanthropy, for other institutional leaders outside of student affairs and for the public. This is something that I again have deep appreciation for in terms of the way that this is framed, because it starts to help us get a framework on how to push the narrative outward as opposed to continue to kind of internally support ourselves through these narratives, which is often what has happened historically. Can you talk about how you decided to frame these and why they matter for the value and worth of our profession? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:31:16]: I'll jump first to say that I think that the danger we've seen different student affairs divisions get divided it up and those are decisions made from very high up level, right in a way external to the inside the profession in many ways. And also that the questions about the value and worth of student affairs in particular comes a little bit from inside, but a lot from outside that we needed to get outside of our echo chamber to talk and tell the story and own that story and what we really do. And I think even the audience of this, well, of course, our entire student affairs professionals, all different levels, should read it and understand it. And my vision of this, and I think the group bought into it, was that our chancellor will have it at his desk and when he will talk with a state legislature like, this is what we do and this is these student affairs folks and this is the student experience and why this is worth it. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:32:14]: I think two things I want to echo what Michelle said earlier about what we learned from our colleagues at the NASPA conference. They inspired us that again, they need this document for all these purposes. And so again, I think they pushed us appropriately. So again, it's not just something that goes on the shelf, but it needs to be an action oriented piece. And that everybody, really everybody is struggling in trying to manage this narrative and have these conversations. So to have that as a tool I think is super important. I think the other piece though also is, in addition to to the data and the assessment and the storytelling, a good colleague of ours, I think both Michelle and Anna and angel, you might know too, Eric Groepich, Dr. Grosspich from Washburn University just posted this article and it was referencing social work. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:33:01]: But he pushed me to say that this also applies to student affairs. But the heading was success often looks like nothing happened because a crisis was prevented. And that's kind of the nature of our work too in that. And one of our colleagues said, yeah, you don't really know what we do, but trust me, if we didn't do it, you would know. And so it's an inverse now. I don't know that that's the narrative that, you know, I think it, it makes it challenging to present it that way. But we just had Halloween weekend, which is a huge, sometimes chaotic, high risk management weekend. It was crazy, but it was managed. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:33:35]: That was because of all the, the intentional efforts and education and process and support and all the things that we did. But I was like, like, okay, another weekend, it's on Monday. And it's like, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We did a lot of work to have that happen. And so that's really kind of forced me to really rethink some of this and how do I communicate that? To say, yes, you're welcome, that that protest went really calmly and didn't make the national news. You're welcome, because that was us. But this article also then talks about the individual and the impact. And I think this also goes back to what Ana was saying is the morale is that then you don't really get that recognition. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:34:13]: You don't really get that apprecia. So that has to come really intrinsically from your own self to go, I made a difference with that student today, or I made a difference in this situation, or I made a difference. And especially whether small or big places, it doesn't matter. You have to continue to feed that to yourself and have that be your own value and worth for how you're contributing to our students and our universities as well. Again, I think there's lots of good action steps. Maybe I went a little different way, Jill, but I think that intentionality of these action steps are really, really important and y external. But I think there's opportunities for us to do more work internally as well and to tell that story, to support our staff, to help them feel valued and appreciated for all the important work that they do on a daily basis. Dr. Michele Murray [00:34:58]: Yeah, I really appreciate that, Lori, and I think that that's important. Not that the document is a pat on the back, but it is a recognition of the multiple dimensions that we are at work in students lives. And I think that that needs to be recognized. I also actually really very much appreciate that the call to action is outside of the profession, really, because you know, as we started this session talking about the narrative around higher education nationally is not at the caliber or level that I think higher education actually deserves. And part of what is happening with this report and the calls to action being externally focused rather than calling to the people who are doing the hard work on the ground is that I think this is giving different language for all the folks who are talking about higher education and to have more complete language around what's happening rather than the very narrow band in which the conversation is existing. So I think that that call to action, being externally focused, is really brilliant because I don't know that. At least I've not heard any conversation about. About higher education. Dr. Michele Murray [00:36:16]: And, you know, I hear a lot about how people think that everything is going wrong and xyz, but I don't hear people having the language about what's going right. And when we ask our alums, because I've just done this to talk about what was meaningful for them when they went to, you know, for their Holy Cross experience, they are brilliant and telling the story of their out of classroom. And I didn't ask them that question, but that is what they actually talk about. And so giving lots of other people the tools to talk about what is really worthwhile about college attendance is, I think, smart. It's just a smart move. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:55]: As we come to a close with our conversation on the report, is there anything else that you would like NASPA members to know about? How to read it, how to use it, how to activate it? Dr. Lori Reesor [00:37:05]: There's so many ways. It's ANA and I think role model this really well. I mean, I think about using this for our student leaders. I think about using this for our staff. And a lot of times I think, honestly, I have struggled, especially because we're so diverse and some of our people come from a higher ed student affairs background. But many of my staff do not. And so. And they don't even, like, think that they work in student affairs. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:37:25]: I'm like, no, you do. And this is what that means. And so to have that kind of educational tool of this is what I do or this is what we do holistically is just a fabulous thing. So again, internally, there's so many opportunities and uses, but then also, as we've indicated, that this is really our chance to shine and to tell this story. And I really implore that all of our colleagues across the country at all of your institutions use this to do that, because that will make us better, that will make us stronger, which then obviously impacts our students. And that's the bottom line is everything that we do impacts our students. So the more belief and support that there is for the work that we do, the better our students will be. And that's what it's all about. Dr. Michele Murray [00:38:07]: Can't think of a better place to end than that. It's about our students. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:38:11]: Thanks, Laurie. That was great. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:38:13]: Thank you. You're sweet. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:14]: For all of our other guests this season, we've been asking three questions on our theme of the value of student affairs. But because we've spent our entire dialogue today focused on this, I'm only going to ask you each one question, which is our normally second question, and that is, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:38:34]: It was actually during a contentious time in higher education. It was protest, and a student was really upset with another student. And I had brought them together at a meal at my house, and they came together as part of different groups, and I saw them, and I talked about the importance of dialogue and having a meal and engaging. And at that moment, the student who was so upset was so upset that the student was going to be in the same space as them, went up and said, I don't like what happened, but I would like to talk with you, and I want to just listen. And I'm going to ask that we listen to each other. And they didn't end up being best friends, but it was the first time they sat down and listened and engaged, and it didn't end up in the shouting match. And they continue to listen and engage over the years, and they keep in touch with me. And I thought that was just the beauty of our work. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:39:32]: There's no theory. There's no grades involved. It was just bringing them together and engaging and listening. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:39:39]: I had a challenging conversation with some of our student leaders a couple weeks ago about a situation that happened and the lessons that could be learned from that. Multiple sides, of course, to every story. But the gist of it, from my perspective, was that we weren't all on the same page of how a situation was gonna be handled. And so there was a surprise element of it. And I just remember talking with these four student leaders of here's the life lesson. No surprises. People don't like surprises. Your bosses don't like surprises. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:40:09]: Your partners don't like surprises. Communication is a tactic. But if you want to build trust and if you want to build community and if you want to build collaboration, surprises is not the way to do that. And so it was really one of those just really important lessons of what they were doing, but then how it translates to their broader perspective. There wasn't not a big, like, Ana. It wasn't like a big, you know, Kumbaya. And everybody's like, oh, there's, you know, but But I think there was learning, and I think that there was reflection. And so I think it's just taking those time, those moments, to really help people understand their behaviors and their both intentions and impact. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:40:50]: And what are the life lessons, both professionally and personally, that you can take away from those situations? So those are that I love those kinds of situations, and we have them all, and our staff have them all the time. But that was probably a most. A more recent one that was significant for me. Dr. Michele Murray [00:41:06]: Like my colleagues, I have lots of stories, especially whenever I have the privilege to speak to an alum who can reflect back and talk about how their experience at the institution really shaped the adult they became, or how they do their work or the work they do or what they do, whatever the family they raised, all of that is really important. But I think the piece that I want to call out, it's the work of some of my colleagues who do work on constructive dialogue here on this campus. And we just honored that at our football game over the weekend. And we have a group called the Speech Peer Educators, and they are specifically trained to help people dialogue across difference. But we also have a program with it called Dialogue Dinners, and this past month, we did two. One was focused on the history of slavery in this country and the intersection of slavery and the history of this institution. So that was the subject of a Dialogue Dinner. And the other one that we had that was also, I think, pretty hard hitting was AI and its impact on society and on individuals. Dr. Michele Murray [00:42:15]: And what that means means, you know, for students who are in college and to see these student leaders facilitate and navigate dicey conversations and to have their peers stay in it and be in dialogue with one another, I thought, yep, this is what we do, and this is why we do it. And to have people walk away, I learned something here. My thoughts are more complicated than they were when I arrived. That was a win on both occasions. So to have both of those happen in the last month, I felt really proud of my staff and of the student leaders they work with. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:53]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:05]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. And there's a ton of things happening, happening in NASPA. Did you know that NASPA offers on demand recordings for all the webinars offered throughout the year? These recordings are available for purchase and can be viewed at your leisure. Topics for the webinar range across the NASPA competencies and provide professional development from student affairs professionals. On Demand recordings can be viewed by yourself or with a large group during a lunch and Learn or another professional development opportunity within your department or your division. The presentations are about 60 minutes long, including question and answer, closed caption and transcript viewing are available for all webinars. The cost of A webinar is $79 for members and 179 for non members, and institutions that want to register 25 individuals or more will also receive a 15% off coupon. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:57]: On Demand recordings are then available for 365 days after your program purchase. If you want to find out more, go to the NASPA website and on the NASPA website you can go under Events and Online Learning and click on the On Demand Catalog to see the whole list of On Demand webinars that are available and I think you'll be surprised at the breadth and depth of webinars that are available as a part of the NASPA Annual Conference that's coming up in March 2026 in Kansas City, Missouri. There's a number of other webinars, affiliated conferences or institutes that are going to be a part of that same conference. The Undergraduate Student Conference is happening on March 8, 2026 and currently you can still submit proposals that showcase diverse experiences in student affairs across different contexts and engage students through creative formats. The program proposals are due on January 5, 2026 and if you're planning to attend the NASPA Annual Conference, this might be a great opportunity opportunity for you to be able to speak to undergraduate students that are considering student affairs. Go to the NASPA Annual Conference website to be able to submit your program proposal today. Also on March 7th and 8th there will also be the Community College Institute, which is a great opportunity for individuals from community colleges to come together and explore innovative teaching technology and collaborate with colleagues to enhance the student experience and shape the future of our associations. On top of that, also on the same days March 7th and 8th will be the International Symposium where you can connect with global leaders and experts in student affairs. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:39]: This year's theme is Promising Practices Without Borders. The symposium will explore innovative partnerships and practices shaping the future of international student services. If you have an interest in adding on any of these affiliated conferences or institutes, as well as the wide array of pre conference programming that is happening on March 7th and 8th as well, go to the NASPA website, open up your conference registration information and you can add on an additional pre conference or affiliated conference right there if you missed it. There is a new Journal of College and Character that has recently been released that is accessible for you as a member of naspa. The Journal of College and Character is is a professional peer reviewed publication that focuses on character development in college and how colleges and universities influence, both intentionally and unintentionally, the moral and civic learning and behavior of their students. The journal includes resources and information designed to encourage discussion, research and innovative educational practices, publishing scholarly articles and applied research on issues related to academic ethics, values and character development in higher education. The new issue that is available is available on the NASPA website and you can access it by going onto the NASPA website and go under Research and Publications. Scroll down to Scholarly Journals and you can find that in the other scholarly journals there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:47:08]: This recent journal has a number of different powerful articles that are both peer reviewed articles as well as invited articles Articles including one entitled Student Suicide and Spirituality by Serena Margaret Saliba and also another one called Greek Life, Character and Religiosity, A Study of Fraternity and Sorority Members at a Christian University by Aaron Ellis, Isaiah King, Will Baxter, Kevin Dougherty and Perry Glanzer. There's a number of other pieces that are in this journal that I would highly encourage you to review for yourself. And as mentioned before, this is only one of the journals that are a part of your membership in naspa, and I highly encourage you to check out all of the journals to extend your own learning and offer you opportunities to be able to bring some of that learning back to your own campus. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers, or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back each week. We're hoping that you that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:09]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:20]: Chris, thank you so much as always for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around naspa. And we have reached our lightning round, which means we're almost at the end of our show. Since you have been here before, we have a different lightning round set for you than we do for Lori and Michelle. So we're gonna go for Ana's lightning round first. Ana, are you ready? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:38]: Ooh. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:38]: All right, question one. I'm gonna give you an opportunity to change your answer from the first go around. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:47]: It would be Apatapeta. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:50]: Number two, what was your undergraduate degree and do you use it now? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:53]: Bachelor's in business. And yes, I do use it now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:56]: Question three, your guilty pleasure TV show. Bing. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:00]: It's Black Doves. It's my new one. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:02]: Question number four, if someone ever visits your city, which is St. Louis, what's the one place they must eat? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:08]: The one thing that they must eat is St. Louis barbecue. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:11]: Number five, what's your favorite work related podcast? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:14]: NASPA. This one. It's the only one I do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:17]: Number six, your favorite, not work related podcast. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:20]: I don't do other podcasts. I'm boring. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:50:22]: Fair enough. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:23]: And number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:26]: Yeah, just. Hello, NASPA colleagues. Thank you so much, Jill, for doing this and interviewing. Interviewing us. And this is fantastic. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:33]: All right, Michelle and Laurie, we are on to you. We're gonna have Michelle going first, Laurie going second on all of our questions. Question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Michele Murray [00:50:44]: Earth, Wind and Fire, Shining Star. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:50:46]: I would say ditto, but the other song I just heard is Thunder, but I don't know if that's the name of it, but that's kind of my, like, get Psych song. Yeah. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:53]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dr. Michele Murray [00:50:57]: I'm so old that when I was five, the choices for girls were nurse and teacher. So one of those hairstylist. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:06]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:09]: There's so many. I can't answer that because if I say one person, I'll feel bad about all the others that I didn't say, but I am really grateful to you know what I'm going to say. Susan Donovan I agree too. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:51:21]: Many, many, many, many and so blessed for that. But David Ambler from the University of. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:25]: Kansas, Number four, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:28]: Well, obviously the Chronicle Daily, but I think it's important to read other things and so the Atlantic is my favorite. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:51:35]: Harvard Business Review would be my favorite. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:38]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:40]: The Gilded Age. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:41]: Love is Blind Denver season just finished. I watched that too. Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:48]: I don't listen to podcasts. So boring. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:50]: Mel Robbins and finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:54]: Yeah, I want to shout out Lori for co this thing with me and for what with our task force we produced. But also to Ana, who had the vision and brought us all together and shined. The guiding star. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:52:09]: Well, of course, ditto. See, this is why I love Michelle. I'm just gonna say ditto to everything she says, but my shout out would always be to my daughter Sarah. So she gives me hope and purpose and love and humility and perspective. So love you, Sarah. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:23]: All right everyone, you've made it to the end of our lightning round. The very last thing I will ask you is how can anyone, anyone reach you? If they'd like to reach out, they. Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:52:31]: Can email me at Ana A N N A dot Gonzalez with a Z at the end at uustl and folks. Dr. Michele Murray [00:52:38]: Can reach me at Mmurray M M U R R a yolycross Edu and. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:52:46]: Ulreser R E E S O R at wisc U I S C edu. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:52]: On behalf of the NASPA community, thank you so much for creating this document and this toolkit for us to use at our institutions. I know so many people being able to put forward our student affairs stories through this document. On behalf of everyone and of course myself as the host of the pod, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Lori Reesor [00:53:10]: Thank you. Dr. Michele Murray [00:53:11]: Thank you Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:13]: Thanks. This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so great grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:40]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, that's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

12/4/25 • 54:16

Season 13 of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, shines a spotlight on the value of student affairs through engaging stories from both fresh perspectives and seasoned experts. In the recent Thanksgiving break episode, Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis reflect on the whirlwind pace of the academic year and extend heartfelt wishes for rest and rejuvenation to their listeners. They express gratitude for the incredible guests featured so far and tease upcoming episodes with compelling new voices that will continue to explore the impact of student affairs work. A main theme of this episode is the importance of reflection and self-care, especially as the term comes to a close and the holiday season approaches. Dr. Jill Creighton also highlights the complexity of Thanksgiving, encouraging listeners to learn more about indigenous communities through resources like Native-Land.ca. This thoughtful acknowledgment underscores the podcast's commitment to inclusivity and deeper understanding within student affairs. Whether you're looking for inspiration or practical wisdom for your work in higher ed, this podcast delivers accessible, relevant professional development. Tune in to be part of a community that values learning, reflection, and authentic storytelling. Share "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" with colleagues and dive into the conversations shaping the future of our field! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:27]: Happy Thanksgiving, Chris. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:28]: Happy Thanksgiving, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:29]: It's always catches up with me this time of year that we're already at this time of year. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:33]: I know it really, it sneaks up on you and I am never prepared for it. And then you realize right after this, there's only a few weeks left before the end of a term and only a month left until the end of the year. It's crazy. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:47]: Well, this year we've had such tremendous guests in the first three quarters of our season. When we come back from our break this week, we'll have a couple of episodes, including some folks that we're just really excited to bring you their stories. And then we'll be back in January. But traditionally we take this week off from releasing the podcast. We hope that all of you who are based in the US Are enjoying some rest this weekend and getting to spend some time with family. We also like to take a moment to acknowledge that Thanksgiving is a complicated holiday for a lot of people. And because of that complexity, we want to remind you that if you're interested in learning more about the indigenous communities that originally were caretakers of the land where you live and work, that there's a really great website resource for that, which is Native Dash land Ca and this is a website where you can input your address or your city where you work or live, and you can see what indigenous people used to have caretaking for the land that you're currently living on the map has expanded a lot over the years and it used to just look at the US And Canada. Now we're seeing that they've covered information for all of South America and Central America, Australia, New Zealand, parts of East Asia, parts of Russia, parts of Northern Europe. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:01]: So it's become a really great and robust resource and we encourage you to check that out. Chris, is there anything else that we want to add as we head into the break? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:09]: Just wishing everyone the best as we move into this holiday season. You know, take some time for yourself, rest, reflect and be able to prepare yourself for a brand new year because it's coming sooner than later. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:22]: Take good care everyone. Safe travels. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:29]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:59]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcast casting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

11/27/25 • 03:27

On the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, host Dr. Jill Creighton explores the intersection of enrollment management and student affairs with special guest Dr. Christopher Tremblay, Executive Director of Enrollment Management at the University of Michigan's Taubman College of Architecture and Urban Planning. If you're curious about the challenges and changes facing higher education, this episode offers a timely and thought-provoking conversation. Facing the Enrollment Cliff The "enrollment cliff"—a predicted decline of about 15% in college-bound students—is front and center in this discussion. Dr. Tremblay walks listeners through the domino effect: declining birth rates and economic factors have shrunk the pool of future college students, and institutions are strategizing how best to adapt. He points out that while enrollment management always relied on advance notice through birth rate data, today, the challenge is more acute. Colleges are shifting focus from just increasing headcount to more nuanced "revenue management." Not every student brings the same tuition dollars, so institutions must balance both enrollment and financial sustainability. The episode also acknowledges the hard truth—some colleges may face mergers or closures as the cliff approaches. The Looming Impact of International Policies The enrollment pressures are compounded by changes to visa policies and regulations, making it tougher for international students to study in the U.S. Dr. Tremblay warns of a "double whammy" for colleges: fewer domestic students and fewer international enrollees, as restrictions force many to defer or pursue education elsewhere. Other countries, like Canada and Germany, are stepping in to woo these students, signaling a shift in the global education market. The Crucial Role of Retention & Student Support But it's not all gloom—the episode celebrates advances in student success and retention. Investing in support systems, academic advising, and holistic onboarding not only helps students persist but is often more cost-effective for colleges. Dr. Tremblay describes the value of a "high tech, high touch" approach and advocates for ongoing, personalized support through a student's first year and beyond. He even dreams of a four-person support team for each student, recognizing the complexity of academic, financial, and career decisions. Why Listen? If you're a higher ed professional, parent, or student wondering what lies ahead, this episode delivers valuable perspectives. It underscores the essential partnership between enrollment management and student affairs, and calls for more collaboration in service of student success. Tune in to hear how institutions are navigating uncertain times—and why student affairs remain critical to transforming lives. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices from the Field, we're heading to the enrollment management side of The House with Dr. Christopher W. Tremblay. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:33]: He brings three decades of leadership in higher education enrollment management. Currently serving as Executive Director of Enrollment Management at the University of Michigan's Taubman College of Architecture and Urban Planning. He also serves as Director of ACRO Strategic Enrollment Management, or SEM Endorsement Program. Tremblay earned both his bachelor's and Master's degrees from Western Michigan University. He has a post Master's Certificate in Enrollment Management from Capella University and a Doctor of Education in Education from the University of Michigan, Dearborn. Tremblay is the co founder and co editor of the Journal of College Access and has served as Editor in Chief of College and University Journal since 2020. He's a scholar and researcher of Walt Disney, teaching the only college course on the life of Walt Disney called Walt's Pilgrimage. Christopher welcome to SA Voices and today we're going to be speaking to you. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:01:19]: Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:19]: Great to be here about the enrollment management side of the house and all the things that are going on in acro. But before we go there, we always like to get to know our guests by asking you, how did you get your current seat? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:01:31]: Wow, that's a long journey. But I will give you the abbreviated version. I actually am grateful that my career in higher education I'm now in my 32nd year and it started because I was an undergraduate orientation student leader. So I feel like it was the impact of student affairs that changed my life and brought me to this profession. So my first job in college was at Western Michigan University as an admissions counselor, actually before I even graduated from college, which was an incredible opportunity. And then I got hooked and I just loved admissions. I loved higher education. And then throughout my career I have done college admissions, I've done financial aid, I've done orientation, and have been doing enrollment management, gosh, for probably over a decade now. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:02:16]: And I've been at the University of Michigan Talbon's College of Architecture and Urban Planning for five years now. But just prior to that I also worked in College Access within the State of Michigan at the Michigan College Access Network. And I have a huge passion for college access, especially as a first time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:32]: Sitting at one of the university universities that's largest in the U.S. i think you'll be in a great position to be able to speak to what you're seeing in terms of changes. One of the things that we've been talking about in student affairs, and I'm sure more so in enrollment management for about the last 10 years, is this pending enrollment cliff that has been coming towards us. We knew that birth rates in the United States had declined in the Great Recession that happened in 2007. For those of you who were in the profession at that time, it was a bit of a squeeze for everybody from a budgetary perspective. But we also saw massive impacts around housing crises in the country, food insecurity and some other things. And that greatly impacted people's family planning choices. And now we're in a position in higher education where there's, I believe it's a 15% drop off of potential enrollees in universities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:20]: So I would love to start there. Christopher, if you can talk a little bit about how enrollment managers are planning for this, how colleges and universities should be bracing for this and, and what that means for our profession. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:03:33]: I guess the blessing of our work is that we always have advance notice because of the birth rate of how many people we think will be ready and eligible to enter college. And so we do have that lead time, but it is definitely a challenging time. While we're still trying to increase the percentage of high school graduates going to college so that we can increase college attainment rates, we know that the starting pool is much smaller and will get smaller for the next. I mean, basically indefinitely from the data that we're seeing from Wiche in terms of high school projections. So it's definitely putting a lot of pressure on colleges and universities. And I would say really enrollment management is shifting to be more about revenue management. And this is where it gets very delicate because cost is one of the primary barriers for students and families as the cost of higher education has increased and there's been less investment at the federal and state level. And so therefore the cost burden is being passed on to the students. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:04:29]: So really our job is to really articulate the value of higher education and showcase its benefits both financially as well as personally and professionally, and that the workforce needs higher skill levels for those who are graduating from high school. And certainly, I think all of us who are in higher education are proponents of. There are many pathways to post secondary education and some of that might include pursuit of what we would have deemed work in the trades. But like for example in Michigan, that training for the trades predominantly is offered at our community colleges and that is going to college. And so part of it's also shifting the mentality still that college is an option for everybody and that there are multiple pathways to pursuing. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:13]: I think that's an interesting credential framing that you've mentioned that enrollment management is shifting to more revenue management. Can you talk more about what that means to the profession? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:05:23]: Historically, as I always experienced the work in enrollment management, it was always about headcount and the number of bodies that you enrolled and the number of students. And I think there's more of a movement and has been for a number of years of counting, you know, headcount equivalent. So in other words, not every student is enrolled full time. Some students might be dual degree and so their revenue may be split. And so really using projections that showcase both enrollment but also tuition revenue. Because at the end of the day also not every student brings in the same amount of revenue because you have different tuition rates, you have different lengths of degrees. For example, in my particular college, we have degrees that are four year undergraduate degrees, we have two year master's degree, we have three semester post master certificates. And so really looking at as we set our enrollment targets, how does that translate into the revenue that's being generated? I also feel like colleges related to enrollment management and this enrollment cliff is that I think we are working very hard to protect our existing infrastructure and the educational experience, to protect the quality of the experience. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:06:34]: And it's like, well, how do you do that when you have less expected revenue? And so I, I think a part of enrollment management is also helping institutions find alternate sources of revenue to alleviate some of that pressure. So whether that be offering some pre college programs or some non credit bearing options that allow you to still offer all of your academic offerings at the highest level in terms of the experiences you want to offer students. Because we don't want to sacrifice that, even though we might have a shrinking size of class. I think that many colleges in the country are going to be faced with some very tough decisions because we all can't win in this race, if you will. So I think that we're going to see many more mergers and or closures unfortunately just because there won't be enough students to fill every degree, every class in the country. So I think we are already starting to see that. I think many of us don't want to see that. But the reality is if there's not students because of the declining birth rate. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:34]: And this is expected to last 15 to 16 years, I believe is the current data set. So it's going to be a change in the way that we have to function, especially in student affairs. I've worked at several institutions where the student affairs model was largely based on student fees for certain parts of organizational structure. And with less students, there are simply less student fees, which means that there are less opportunities to potentially use that resource in a way that benefits students. So it's an interesting thing to think about. Right now. It seems to be more of an intellectual exercise, but I think very soon it will be a reality in our budget lines. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:08:15]: Absolutely. I think we've already seen, unfortunately, with layoffs by some of the largest and most prestigious universities in the country because they're recognizing that the dollars just aren't there to be able to do that. And so there is going to be, I think, a shift in the types of services and resources that are provided. I think everybody wants to be very conscientious and careful about that because we still have a lot of support that we need to provide to students. They just don't show up and are perfectly experienced. Our system. Right. There's stumbles along the way, there's support that's needed. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:08:47]: And so I think my hope in this as we talk about the work of student affairs is that that is not sacrificed or doesn't get to be so slim that, you know, it becomes non existent. Because I think it's still going to be just as important tomorrow as it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:01]: Is today as it was yesterday with the uncertainty of the future of international students in the US and we've got an interesting time ahead of us in higher education from an admissions perspective. Christopher, can, can you talk to us about what those changes are and how you're seeing some of these things that are proposed by the current administration impacting your ability to recruit international students? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:09:23]: I think what we're seeing happening in D.C. is devastating to higher education and it's basically eliminating opportunities for international students to study in the United States. And I think it's a huge brain drain for us because we're going to see the impact of this for decades because if we're not enrolling these students, we're certainly not going to be graduating them and adding them to the workforce, whether it be in the US or if they go back to their own country or go elsewhere. So those changes obviously have been restrictions on visas. The pause on visas this past summer definitely hurt us because it caused delays. We ended up deferring many students to next year in hopes that they can still get a visa, but there's no guarantee. The new social media screening has added complexity to that and has changed students behaviors and made them much more conscientious about what they can and should be posting on social media and in what channels. So I think all of that is affecting it. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:10:21]: I think the other regulations regarding you have to get your visa in your home country so you can no longer travel to another country to get that. It is devastating for some students because our international students have been very entrepreneurial and resourceful and determined to get a visa. And so they have flown to other countries and other embassies to try to get that work done and now that option won't be there. And so I think it's unfortunate because it's just barrier after barrier being put in front and we are just going to continue to see a decline in international students. And unfortunately there's not the domestic population that can immediately or fully replace their seats and their enrollments. And so I think it's definitely caused strain and commotion in higher education that we didn't, I think, fully expect to see coming. And so I think that in addition to the enrollment cliff, this is now a double whammy for higher education and has put so much pressure that we have not seen in at least in the time that I've been in higher education, other than again, challenges with COVID Somewhat joked with colleagues that I was like, gosh, it's like I almost want to go back to the COVID years because now they seem not so hard as it does now. We didn't know that then, right. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:11:36]: What was coming. So I think, you know, the institutions that are going to be successful are going to be the ones that can be nimble and extremely responsive and act diligently regarding either the finance or the finances, either reducing expenses or generating new sources of revenue. I mean, those are really your only two options when you look at the, the financial impact of the international student enrollment crisis. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:04]: And for many schools that are funded by their state governments, we've seen that decline over the years and taxpayer dollars being diverted to other important public services and projects. So it's really a squeeze point for higher education at the moment with the international student enrollment component and with those visa barriers that have been broug on in the last year or so. I've also seen other countries kind of pick up on that and perk up on that. The UK has also done some similar things with putting more visa restrictions on students. So with the UK and the US in combination going, we're going to be admitting less international students like Germany have really picked up the mantle. And I've seen some advertisements where German universities are saying, we know you probably don't speak German, and getting an education in German is going to be very hard, but we're going to help you with that. So come here. We'll teach the language and you can get your degree. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:55]: So. So I wonder how that's going to shift the market. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:12:57]: I think we saw that with our neighbors in Canada. I know that there was some schools that immediately were trying to capture some of the enrollment that would be coming to the US and it's like, still come to North America, but just come to Canada. So, I mean, they were smart in doing it. I don't know how many students actually followed through on doing that, because if you have your heart set on coming to the United States, there's certain places that I think attract our students in our country. The large coastal cities, the midsize college towns, wherever students feel like there's a fit and opportunity for them. But, yeah, I think we're going to see other countries definitely capitalizing and providing some additional incentives to woo those students. So we. We definitely have to keep an eye on that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:40]: So the picture we've painted so far in our conversation is a lot of challenges ahead. But what's going well in enrollment management right now? What are universities that are attracting students still doing that, that is working in the environment we have today? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:13:54]: I would say probably the biggest sense of, I think accomplishment is related to success and a commitment to retention and helping the student in the most holistic way. So I think since I've been in the field, I would say this has been the biggest improvement and kind of mindset the concept that it's cheaper to retain a student than it is to recruit a student. How can we make sure that our graduation outcomes continue to increase? Because there is much scrutiny by the government and other organizations on the outcomes of higher education, and we still have a long way to go to demonstrate that. But I think a lot of it is our students need a lot of academic and social support. We know that there's a lot of students that experience anxiety and the stress levels of just everything going on in the world. I think we all need to be reminded that that just like it affects us, it affects our students. And if their primary focus is academics and then all of their extracurricular activities, but then they're worried about cost or they're worrying about the political environment or they're worried about things going on in the world. Those are detractors can set students up to not be successful, you know, academically. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:15:04]: So I would say that all of the student success measures from early alerts and follow up and all of the technology that allows both students and universities to track student progression I think is helpful because I think if we can teach students also how to self manage their progress, it's also teaching them a skill, a lifelong skill that should help them in their career because this isn't going to be the first and last time they have to manage life and all the curveballs at throws. And how do you learn from that? Because that's. I think one of the things that I love about higher education is just how much of a learning laboratory it is and how it transforms the lives of our students. I mean, I even think about myself as I entered college as a naive only child. So I didn't have any siblings ahead of me to learn the ropes. But I was grateful that there were people who took me under their wing and I didn't realize the value and role of student affairs until I became an admissions and enrollment management professional. And really it was working as the coordinator of orientation that I even first learned about student development theory and that all of these things that we were doing had data and research behind it as impactful practices to make a student feel like they belong at an institution and that they can be successful. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:22]: I think this is a nice tie in to the partnership that's very natural between student affairs and enrollment management. A lot of people see that nexus happening at the orientation process. Sometimes orientation lives in enrollment management, sometimes it lives in student affairs because we're really kind of establishing now you're a matriculated student and that student affairs engagement kind of begins. Can you talk to us, as a former orientation professional, now enrollment professional about what you see as the most successful ways to onboard students in 2025? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:16:53]: A great question. I would say that my mantra on this is high tech, high touch. I know that's kind of an old school term, but I think we have to remember that when while digital technology offers some great efficiencies and offers greater access, you know, to onboarding and orientating a student to higher education, I still believe that the personal connection, the personal contact is equally critical and I would actually say even more important because our students, while they are such digital natives, we need to remind them that we still live with and work and engage with other people in person. And that sense of belonging and what I call that Human presence factor I think is important. So I think orientation programs that do both very well. I think there also is what I think over the years I learned is what I would call a time release formula or time release model. I think we have a tendency in higher education to just put everything out there all at once and like kind of as a menu. But I think there's a value in releasing content and information and knowledge sharing in stages as we believe the student needs it and when they engage in, engage in it. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:18:08]: And so I really think that orientation starts at the time that a student pays their deposit and really needs to go through the end of their very first semester, if not their first year. Because that first year is still a time of adjustment and for some students it's a more challenging adjustment. And so I think thinking about that really almost as an entire year experience is, is critical to make sure that we're there to support students, students when they need us at the time they need us because they might know about the counseling services in over the summer, but until the rubber hits the road in November and they hit that moment where they are needing those counseling services, how do we get them that information at that time? Because we introduced it months ago. And for them think about how much information has come their way since then. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:57]: It'll be an interesting shift in our onboarding models to have kind of maybe weekly touch points or monthly touchpoints with students in their first year rather than bam, here we go over a full two day thing or a week thing or whatever our models might look like. I think it'd be a fascinating exercise in how to capture the attention of students in an ongoing way. But that time release formula might be a better way to engage our services and help students find their place. Because we also know that six week mark is an important inflection point for students who are going to persist to the end of their first term and then ultimately into their second term and hopefully to their second year. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:19:34]: Yeah, for sure. I have always had a dream and this is a dream that would require just tons of money. But going back to that human presence factor, I actually feel like every student who's enrolled in college needs a four person team that gets assigned to them upon matriculation at the start of the semester. Even before that four person team would include their academic advisor, a financial aid specialist, a career advisor, what I would call a student affairs or student life or engagement professional. Could you imagine having a joint conversation with that four person team and the student student? Because what we do right now, which Just blows my mind is that I'll just give an example when a student might be struggling in a class and they have to decide, do I stay in that class and get a poor grade or withdraw or do I stay in the class because it could negatively impact my financial aid. So what does the student do? The student goes to their academic advisor. They talk about the pros and cons of dropping the class from an academic perspective. Then the student goes over to the financial aid person, person and has to discuss what are the pros and cons of dropping or not dropping the class. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:20:40]: And then we expect the student to connect the dots between the two of them. Many students can do that, but some students don't do it well or can't do it at all. And so imagine the complementariness of all of those voices being in the same conversation for the efficiency and the effectiveness of the student to make the best informed decision at the end of the day. And then again, everybody kind of knows kind of what's happening. And I just think it's a more holistic approach. Again, if money was no object, I would implement it immediately because I just think that students would benefit from a team of support and the same team that could stay with them through their entire undergraduate experience. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:20]: That or a cross training model that allows everyone to dabble in each other's areas a little bit. I've always a big fan of that type of exercise as well. Which I think leads us to a natural question, question of what do you, as a primarily professional, wish that student affairs professionals knew about the world? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:21:36]: Wow. Well, probably the first thing that comes to mind is, and I would expect this both ways, I think student affairs would benefit from knowing and understanding how a student got to that seat in that class. Like what did it take in terms of effort in order to attract that student's attention, recruit them to apply, admit them, and then matriculate them and then vice versa. I would actually love for a student affairs professional to remind me and refresh my memory and bring me up to speed on what does it take to support a student from the day they arrive to the day they graduate. Right. Because I think sometimes there's so much going on in our separate worlds and we have to be focused and concentrate on that, that unfortunately we just don't have the luxury of time anymore to go shadow or spend time in student affairs. So I also would love that opportunity to be able to just reminded of what are the current challenges that our students are facing that are real. Now I get nuggets of it. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:22:39]: Because fortunately I have. We have a great student affairs operation within our academic, school and college. And so I actually get intel on some of the reasons our students are visiting, counseling, for example. So it gives me some insights on what our students, what they're entering with in terms of life challenges and then challenges that experience them. But I think we can always do better, understanding each other's worlds that we live in and then trying to find opportunities to further collaborate for the benefit of the student. At the end of the day, it's all about student success. And that can be defined in lots of different ways at different institutions and for different students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:17]: Going to go ahead and lean into our theme questions for the season and we're talking about the value of student affairs. And from an enrollment management perspective, it might look a little different. But I think this perspective is a great value add for our season because you see us as kind of an internal external party where you're part of the team, but we're not in each other's day to day universes. So our first question is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:23:44]: The first thing that comes to mind is transformation. Really think that student affairs is about developing each student's potential and meeting students where they are and taking them to the next level. So in terms of, and I think especially developing all of those soft skills that complement the skills that are being learned in the classroom and in any academic experience, because I think that's where the value of higher education is, right? It is about the degree and it is about the credential and it is about the academic training. But when I think about the skill set that I gained as a student through my leadership positions as a student, and I think those are the things that I use almost every day in my job and were most transformative for my life. And I see it time and time again for our students because that's where they feel the sense of belonging to belonging and contribution. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:37]: Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:24:42]: I would say this still it was because I experienced it, but then I got to facilitate it for 300 other students who served as orientation student leaders. But I do think the summer that I was an orientation student leader, it definitely transformed my life because it put me in a position to have that peer to peer connection with incoming students. But really the major value was the four weeks of training that I received to prepare to be an orientation student leader. And I got one College credit for it, which I was grateful that there was the academic recognition. But that's where I learned about facilitation and conflict resolution and leadership skills and communication skills, all of that which has just benefited me so much in my career. And still to this day, I get many of our former students who are orientation leaders describe that experience as very powerful and impactful. And for many of them, it planted the seed for a career in higher education. And so I just really feel like those kinds of leadership development programs that are intense and short term can be just an incredible gift to our students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:54]: And to our third question, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:26:02]: The first thing that comes to mind is that student affairs is essential. I don't think we can operate a modern day college or university without student affairs professionals, without student development theory grounding our work. And again, this is where we create that sense of belonging and support that I think also student affairs are such role models for how to approach this work in a very personal and with humanity in mind. And I think in the world that we're living in today, where I feel like humanity is not number one priority outside of higher education, we have a responsibility, I think, to role model how we take care of each other and how we, we care for each other. Right? Because at the end of the day, to transform those student lives, to make those students feel like they are better than they realize and that we have gifted them and taught them so many things where they can impact the rest of the world because we're counting on them. They are our future leaders. And so I really, you know, always am grateful for the work that our student affairs professionals do. And I always consider myself to be a quasi student affairs professional. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:27:11]: I always joke with people that I worked in higher education for 20 years before I got my doctorate in education because my undergraduate and master's degrees are in communication, which again, I absolutely loved. But I had so many aha moments when I was sitting through my doctoral classes and I was like, oh my gosh, that's what I've been doing for 20 years. Right? So for me, it was an affirmation that the people who trained me in my work and mentored me, folks like Stanley henderson and Donna St. John, really like, took me under their wing and really taught me what I needed to know and reminded me that I was actually taught by the best in the field. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:48]: Christopher, is there anything else you'd like our NASPA listeners to know about the world of enrollment management and how it impacts the value of student affairs today. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:27:56]: Absolutely. Please collaborate with your enrollment management colleagues. Learn about both the strengths and challenges of their work and also, I think, be reminded of just the incredible amount of stress that enrollment management professionals are under these days and that that stress shows no sign of alleviating. And so anytime that we can do checks with each other and be there for each other again, I think we are all reminded every day that we are here because of the students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:26]: Christopher, thank you for all of those thoughts, and I'm going to toss it over to Producer Chris to tell us all about what's going on in NASA. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASA NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:39]: Hey Jill, great to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in naspa. Did you know that the knowledge communities in NASPA are celebrating 25 years of knowledge creation this year? And this historic milestone is going to be celebrated at the NASPA annual conference from March 7th through the 11th in Kansas City, Missouri. For some of you, you may have always known that knowledge communities have always been a part of NASPA. But prior to 2001, knowledge communities were considered what were called networks. In 1989, through a restructure of task forces, networks, and advisory groups, NASPA approved its first networks New professionals Small colleges, fraternities and sororities Ethnic minorities, gay, lesbian, bisexual urban urban gay, lesbian and bisexual urban institutions Women in student affairs, adult learners and community colleges. Through the years, these networks continued to grow organically as members identified and responded to specific issues of concern in the field. By 2001, the NASPA board of Directors recognized an opportunity to reshape how these communities connected and shared expertise. One of our past guests on our podcast, Betty Simmons, ended up being asked, at the request of the then NASPA President, Gwen Dungey, to lead a transformation that would define how NASPA members would engage for the next quarter century. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:14]: Often affectionately called the grandmother of knowledge communities, Betty championed a new format that would leverage emerging technology to communicate communication to facilitate communication and information sharing among members regardless of geographic location. So what began as nine networks has evolved into a dynamic ecosystem of knowledge communities that serve as portals to naspa. Today's knowledge communities encompass a diverse range of topics and serve as a hub for developing and connecting experts across functional areas. Across functional areas, emerging issues, and member identity identities Knowledge communities have become the beating heart of how NASA members find their people share innovation and advance the field. I'm really excited to be celebrating this at the 2026 Annual Convention at the 2026 Annual Conference. As someone that started Knowledge community back in 2001, I am so proud of the work that the SAPA Knowledge Community has done over the years, but really the work of all the Knowledge Community communities because it truly has become the heart of the association and a way for all NASPA members to be able to get engaged in a way that they want to be engaged. So at the NASPA Annual Conference, the plan this year is to honor this legacy while looking toward the future of how we connect, learn and lead together. From Casey specific programming to opportunities to engage with communities old, old and new, this conference is going to be designed to help you find your people and deepen your NASPA experience so you have a great opportunity to be able to identify with the knowledge communities that you particularly connect with. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:04]: But also you have an opportunity to be able to test the water. As you go to the NASPA conference, check out some of the different knowledge communities, see what's on going they're all about or start today. Go to the NASPA website and on the NASPA website you can easily be able to identify and check out all of the knowledge communities. All you have to do is go on the NASPA website and in the top bar there is a tab that is called Membership plus Communities. If you go and hover over that button you can go down to the Knowledge communities and see all 30 plus knowledge communities that are out there and see what ones make sense. I highly encourage you to check them out today and celebrate the amazing work that the knowledge communities have done, but also the amazing communities that they have become to allow for you to connect with and find more of your own people that are passionate about similar things that you're passionate about. A quick public policy update for this month over the past month, the federal government entered the longest shutdown in history, with potential disruptions to institutions of higher education. However, as many of you know, a bipartisan funding deal through a continuing resolution has been voted on, and this continuing resolution would restore government operations at current levels through January 30, 2026 and provide full funding for select agencies, marking a meaningful step toward ending the stalemate. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:34]: The Trump administration's Compact for Academic Excellence in Higher Education continues to to draw widespread opposition, with most of the nine invited universities, among them mit, Brown, Penn and the University of Virginia, formally rejecting the proposal linking federal funding preferences to tuition freezes, enrollment caps and restrictions on gender and diversity policies. Meanwhile, the administration's $100,000 fee on new H1B visa petitions has sparked backlash from higher education, healthcare and business groups who warn that it will damage research and international hiring. A coalition of unions, colleges and associations has filed suit challenging the legality of the fee, arguing it exceeds presidential authority and was issued without proper rulemaking in the courts. A major settlement between the Department of Education and the American Federation of Teachers has restored student loan forgiveness processing for millions of borrowers under income, drip driven repayment and public service loan forgiveness programs, with protections against potential tax liability. Federal judges have also stepped in to halt Education Department layoffs affecting civil rights enforcement and to block restrictive campus speech laws in Texas. As litigation unfolds, higher education institutions continue to face uncertainty around funding compliance and future regulatory direction. NASPA has remained active in advocacy efforts throughout this period, joining higher education coalitions to oppose the proposed H1B wage level lottery rule and the Department of Education's expansive Admissions and Consumer Transparency Supplement, warning of excessive reporting burdens and privacy risks. NASPA also continues to advocate for restoring funding for minority serving institutions, preserving support for research and student aid programs, and in ensuring stability and transparency amid the ongoing federal shutdown. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:31]: You can continue to monitor the 834 active bills across state legislatures and Congress on the NASPA Policy Hub, which is a unique benefit only for NASPA members. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring you your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are Stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:07]: Chris, thank you so much for always sharing with us what's going on in and around NASPA and Christopher. We have now reached our lightning round. I've got seven questions for you in about nine 90 seconds. Are you feeling ready? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:19]: Let's do it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:20]: All right, question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:24]: Gosh, probably Pink Pony Club. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:26]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:29]: Ooh, I actually, I never had anything in mind. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:36]: Stanley Henderson. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:37]: Number four, your essential student affairs or higher education read. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:41]: Ooh. All right, that one's a tough one, I'm going to say. One of the first books that I read when I became director of admissions was called the Gatekeepers, and it was Inside the Life of an Admissions Operation. And it was a fascinating read. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:54]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:57]: I never watch tv. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:58]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:38:01]: My favorite podcast is actually the podcast version of CBS Sunday Morning because I just love their feel good stories. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:09]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:38:13]: Yes, absolutely. I've already mentioned several of them, but I also would love to give a shout out to my work wife, Kimberly Buster Williams, who I do a lot of work with, acro. She has been an amazing colleague and friend. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:26]: And for those who may not be familiar, ACRO is one of our sister associations. It stands for the American association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers. So they're basically the NASPA for the side of the house. So if you maybe spend time in both worlds, it'd be a good thing to check out. Or if you're thinking about shifting within Higher Education acronym is a great place to go. Christopher, it's been an incredible and rich dialogue today. If anyone would like to reach you to have conversations after the show, how can they find you? Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:38:53]: Yeah, the best way is through LinkedIn. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:55]: Christopher, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:38:58]: Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:04]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field, brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listener listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:34]: It really does help other student affairs professional find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

11/20/25 • 40:01

In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, host Dr. Jill Creighton brings together members of the third cohort of the Global Master's Students Program, a unique partnership between NASPA, the European University College Association (EucA), and Lumsa University in Rome. This special episode showcases graduate students from around the world—including the Philippines, Belgium, Italy, Namibia, China, the Netherlands, Germany, Trinidad & Tobago, and South Africa—sharing their varied experiences, perspectives, and hopes for the student affairs profession. Thank you to Lida Ricci, Julia Jaque, Joseph "Joel" Parcon, Luca Corona, Vency Mupupa, Raghavendra Reddy Manda and Leah Punch for sharing their voices today. Central Themes: Heart, Transformation, and Collaboration At its core, the conversation orbits around the powerful value student affairs brings to higher education globally. Joseph "Joel" Parcon emphasizes "values formation"—the role of student affairs in nurturing not just academic talent but shaping students as positive agents for societal change. Julia Jaque and Leah Punch echo this sentiment, describing student affairs as "the heart of the student experience," fostering belonging and personal growth beyond classroom walls. The theme of transformation comes alive through Raghavendra Reddy Manda, who poignantly describes student affairs as "the soul of the higher education system"—a journey where students find purpose and learn to make an impact. Vency Mupupa adds that key values like diversity, respect, integrity, and care reflect a commitment to inclusive, supportive campus environments. But visibility remains a challenge for the field. Many panelists note that student affairs is often misunderstood or underappreciated. Luca Corona and Leah Punch advocate for "joyful testimony" and storytelling, letting students themselves express how involvement in campus life, community, and extracurricular activities enriches their university journey. Collaboration—between student affairs, academic affairs, administration, and students themselves—is seen as crucial to raising awareness of the broad impact and importance of the profession. Diverse Pathways, Unified Purpose Panelists also share their personal motivations for studying student affairs: from accidentally stumbling into the field to intentionally pursuing it as a vocation. Each story reveals a commitment to supporting students, fostering development, and elevating the human aspect of academia. Why Listen? If you're curious about the future of student affairs—how the profession is viewed and evolving across continents—this episode will resonate. Hear firsthand how practitioners are meeting challenges and opportunities in vastly different cultural and educational contexts. The candid reflections and shared wisdom from emerging leaders across four continents are sure to inspire anyone invested in student success and campus well-being. Tune in to this thought-provoking episode for a truly global perspective on why student affairs matters—and how its impact ripples far beyond campus boundaries. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to our next episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field. We have a very special episode today where we're going to be talking to our current Global Master's Students cohort. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:37]: This is our third cohort of global Master's students and this is a collaboration project. This course is in collaboration with NASPA and EucA, which is the EucA University College Association, and also Lumsa University, which is a university in Rome, Italy. We have students today spanning the entire globe, many, many different time zones, all earning their master's degrees in student affairs, and I'm thrilled to bring them to the podcast today. So our first student is Joel. Joel, please tell us where you're joining us from, what university you're at. Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:01:09]: So, I'm Joel. I'm from the Philippines. I am the Vice Chair for Student affairs in the University of Asia and the Pacific. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:16]: Welcome. Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:01:17]: Glad to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:17]: Our next student is Julia. Julia Jaque [00:01:19]: Hello, I'm Julia. I'm project Coordinator at European University College association in Belgium. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:26]: And welcome. Julia, glad to have you here. Luca, you're our next student. Luca Corona [00:01:30]: Yeah. My name is Luca Coroa and I'm a Catholic priest from Rome and I worked for 15 years in institutional affairs as the director of the residence of Collegio Marzza. But now I am professor of Theology at the Catholic University in Rome and I continue to give my contribution to serious affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:52]: Thank you for joining us, Luka. I'm glad to have such a diversity of perspectives amongst the three we've introduced so far. We've got four more to go. Our next student is Venzi. Vency Mupupa [00:02:01]: Good afternoon. My name is Vensi Mpupa. I am originally from Namibia. I worked previously at the University of the Free State in student affairs for 10 years, and then I moved to the University of Diukunshan in China, where I was also working in the Residence Life office and I'm currently based in Namibia, working for Safland Property Services as an executive assistant. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:26]: Welcome. And next we have Raghavendra. Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:02:29]: Hello, My name is Raghavendra reddymanda. I'm a PhD candidate in entomology at Wageningen University and Research in the Netherlands, where my research focuses on sustainable pest management in greenhouse horticulture. I also serve as the communication Officer of Wageningen Doctoral Council and the chair of Career committee at a national graduate school working to enhance doctoral well being and career development. In future, I aspire to build a hybrid career which combines my passion for scientific research with leadership in student affairs and higher education administration. Leah Punch [00:03:04]: Good day everyone. I'm Leah Punch. I'm from Trinidad and Tobago. Currently I work in Bremen, Germany at Constructor University. There I work as a residential life manager, mainly responsible for incidents and emergency response. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:20]: Next up, we have Lida. Julia Jaque [00:03:22]: Hi, I'm Lida and I'm responsible for educational and cultural activities at the University College of Merit in Rome where I've been working for the past couple of years. I've always been passionate about the academic world, which led me to pursue a master's program focused on higher education and student affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:45]: So because there are so many of us today, I'm going to be asking us just two questions focused on our theme on the value of student affairs. And I'd love to hear all of your perspectives, especially because we're so global. Our first question is when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? And we'll have you go in the order you introduced yourselves. Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:04:05]: Okay. So when I think of the value of student affairs, particularly in the University of Asia in the Pacific, we're actually, we are given the. The hallmark of values formation. So it's important for us as the center for student affairs to be able to provide opportunities for students to be able to add value to their student life so that they don't just learn on the academic side, but they also learn outside of the classroom and they graduate to become positive agents of change in service to society. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:37]: Thank you, Joel. In the Philippines, it's interesting to hear that you've got set expectations in that way a little bit more national and standard than what we see in other parts of the world. Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:04:46]: Yeah. In particular with, especially in the uanp, there are three centers that are actually given all of these different things that they need to focus on. So we are the ones on values formation. There's another unit that's in charge of research and development and another for people development as well. So we are the ones who really are supposed to be the other side of the coin of the academic affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:08]: Julia, go ahead and jump on in. Julia Jaque [00:05:10]: I guess for me it's literally the. Leah Punch [00:05:12]: Heart of the students experience. Right. Because the student affairs help students to. Julia Jaque [00:05:17]: Understand who they are and who they. Vency Mupupa [00:05:20]: Want to be and also to connect. Julia Jaque [00:05:22]: With others and to have this feeling of belonging with the community. Leah Punch [00:05:26]: So I guess is the center of the experience of being student. Luca Corona [00:05:31]: For me, the value of student affairs is very important in helping students think about their lives in a broader sense, not just within the specifics of university. I think that the risk of young people is over. Specializing in university students first helps them think more comprehensively. Also for example, with community not alone, I think. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:58]: Fancy, you're next. Vency Mupupa [00:05:59]: Good afternoon again. When I think of the values I spent almost 10 years at the University of the Free State, so I'm going to be referencing the University of the Free State a lot in this podcast of ours. So when I think of the values of student affairs at the University of the Free State, I think of diversity, I think of respect, I I think of integrity, I think of care, and I also think of learning. These values reflect UFS commitment to creating an environment where every student feels included and supported. Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:32]: And just for clarity, while Vency is currently in Namibia, the University of the Free State is in South Africa. So she has experience in multiple parts of the continent. Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:06:42]: Ready here. When I think about the value of student affairs, the first word that comes to my mind is transformation. Student affairs transformed the education from a system of courses and grades into the human journey of growth, belonging and also purpose. So it's where the students tend to discover who they are, what they care about and how they can make a difference in the world. So for me, student affairs is not just a department or a profession. It's the soul of higher education system, which often reminds us that education is not only about learning facts, but about becoming a wholesome person. Leah Punch [00:07:18]: When I think about student affairs or the student affairs profession, what comes to mind is probably us as student affairs professionals helping or creating a space for students to have the ability to create and learn and grow beyond the classroom. I think part of my role is also helping students or equip students with building like soft skills, equipping them with things that they might need later on in life. So equipping them with like soft skills that would be able to help them in their next job or their next just as citizens or part of society. Julia Jaque [00:07:53]: I'm lida and when I think of values in student affairs, few fundamental principles immediately come to mind. And at the core is deep commitment to placing students at the heart of all decisions, programs and services. So has active collaborators in shaping their educational journey. This means listening to their voice, honoring their lived experiences and co creating environments where they can thrive. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:27]: I really enjoy learning about all of our student affairs collective perspectives, because we're sitting on four separate continents today and really kind of honing in on what the value of the profession is. And we're all trying to work together to help students succeed, to help them thrive in the environment and ultimately change the way that our universities operate to make them the best possible for students. And it's great to hear that that alignment exists across the globe right now. Which leads me to my next question, which is, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment and particularly in the country that you live and work in? Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:09:07]: Joel, here, that's a tough question to answer. Student Affairs. I think that it's very important for student affairs professionals to, I guess, or at the very least, to take the initiative and extend the arm and try and collaborate more with the academic affairs units of the university. Well, with the entire university that we are working in, especially in the university I'm working for. Yes, they know about the center for Student affairs, but they don't quite know what it is, the breadth of what we do. A lot of people and even students think that student affairs is all about discipline. Not a lot of them think that cultural affairs is part of student Affairs. Before our sports development was also part of student Affairs. Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:09:49]: There isn't that much awareness about the breadth of what student affairs, the center for Student affairs, actually does in our university. And I've been talking with other student affairs practitioners from across the Philippines as well in some of the conferences that I've attended, and they have similar situations that, okay, it's something that the academic affairs unit can't do. Throw it to Student Affairs. They'll do it for you. Events management. Throw it to Student Affairs. And I think that it's just a more intentional way of making people aware of what we do in student affairs more than just them having that vague idea of what it is that we actually do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:24]: And I think that's a valid response in itself. Right? Knowing that we need to be more visible in our higher education spaces, that we need to be more visible with our university partners, whether they be in other parts of the administration, with the students, or with our faculty colleagues, but not knowing what to do to activate. It's a very reasonable response because I think it's a question that we've been asking ourselves as a profession for a very long time. Luca Corona [00:10:48]: This is Luca for me. Students affairs needs to be better understood through the valuable testimony of those who work here, work there in the student affairs, I think the testimony of students who have experienced that university is not just about classes, but also about community life, volunteering, music and other activities. I think we need the joyful testimony of students who have lived this holistic experience in university to share with the peers and also with the general public and the other stakeholders of the university. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:34]: I like that framing of joyful testimony. We can tell that you come from the spiritual side of the house for students, but you know, we talk about storytelling all the time in student affairs and that is just a really lovely way of putting it. Vency Mupupa [00:11:46]: Vinci here. Again, thank you for that question. I am going to keep referring and making reference of the University of the Free State. So at the University of the Free State, student affairs needs to show its impact through evidence and collaboration. You know, by highlighting how it supports student success, well being and leadership, it can gain great visibility and recognition across the university, but also not just at the University of the Free State. I think all over the world, when people hear student affairs, I don't think they understand the role that student affairs practitioners play in student success. So if we are able to, through evidence and collaboration, show the impact that we have on this, then I think we have hit the ball right in the middle there. Thank you for that. Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:12:34]: Thanks for the nice addition. Vancy Reddy here. So, to be better seen and understood in the Netherlands, the country where I work, student affairs should focus on defining its unique identity while also celebrating its existing strengths. So unlike North America, where student affairs is a well established profession, in Netherlands it's more decentralized, so it's spread across study advisors, psychologists, graduate schools, study organizations, student associates. So this diversity is not a weakness. It's a reflection of Dutch culture of collaboration and also student independence. So by bringing these elements together under a shared vision of student success, well being and also community, we can show its collective impact more clearly. So it's about just connecting the dots, demonstrating how every conversation, mentorship and program contributes to student feeling supported, engaged and also empowered. Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:13:30]: So for me to be better understood in the Netherlands, we don't need to reinvent the student affairs itself, but we simply need to tell the story more visibly and also profoundly. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:41]: Can I also ask you to weigh in on what you've recently been listening to in terms of student affairs and its value? In India, you talked about recently listening to a podcast in Hindi language that was kind of having a similar debate. Any thoughts there? Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:13:57]: Yeah. Also in India, as I mentioned earlier, student affairs is not a profession and it's not so popular like North America, most of the student affairs professionals that are recruited doesn't have a specialized training or degree in student affairs. So that was also a sort of eye opener for me. And it's important to have the trained student affairs professional because as I mentioned, it's the heart of university education, not only in India, but everywhere in the world. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:25]: Thank you. Leah Punch [00:14:26]: Yeah. So I think for me it's quite difficult to like answer the question immediately, but I think I agree with Luca, especially in the context of Germany, I think student affairs, it's like a fairly new concept. We don't have many residential campuses or residential life. We have offices where students could go for information and help. But student affairs isn't really a big thing in German culture. So I think I would agree with Luca, where I think the first step might be having students actually understand. So the students who come to construct a university, having them first understand and giving them, equipping them with the language of like, what we do. So starting from when they arrive at the university, kind of like introducing them into, yes, we help build a community, we help them learn, also helping them identify the things that we actually learn. Leah Punch [00:15:17]: And I think first implanting this seed into the students and then having them be able to tell their stories to people who they meet, but also creating more like formalized spaces where maybe we could engage a bit more in the community or have events where people could like showcase these things, maybe partner with some, not only with like social media things, but maybe partner with like a local paper and just like showcasing some of the work that we do just to like have people get familiar with student affairs. So I think my thing would be like starting with the students, kind of like instill in them what we do, giving them the ideas of what we do, have them storytell, but also have us storytell together with them in like a broader sense of the German community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:02]: I like the synergy of you being at Constructor University and really telling the story through a co constructivist lens. I think that matches really well with how student affairs stories can be kind of shared successfully, especially when the language is new to the environment that you're working in. Julia Jaque [00:16:20]: And Lita, I also believe that a collaboration between all departments is necessary and that student affairs should have a voice and be well understood by others. Equally important is ensuring that students themselves understand the role of student affairs, not just as a support service, but as a vital resource for their personal, social and academic development. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:53]: What I'm hearing from across all of our conversation is that the themes are really the same in terms of the global student affairs identity. So I have a friend who likes to say, same, same, but different. So we're reaching the same goals, we have the same motivations, but the pathways that we reach those goals through are going to be different based on our different cultural contexts about what our communities need and what our students need. So it's lovely to hear from all of you in this regard. And we have a little bit of time left, so I'd love to know from each of you, can you just tell us you decided to study student affairs? Why it's important to you because you all are the future of the profession. Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:17:30]: Well, I actually stumbled onto student affairs. I was sort of an active student when I was studying, also from uanp. And then afterwards, one of my could call her my mentor, she recruited me to get into student affairs, and then I found a home in the profession. I've seen student affairs from both sides when I was a student, and then later on when I started working, I saw the value and how it became such a noble thing to do to see how these students develop. I've seen my fair share of students graduate and to get in touch with them after all of these years and to know how their experience with us in student affairs while they were active in the university and to see how that has enriched their lives afterwards, it keeps me going in the profession. Luca Corona [00:18:18]: Yeah, this is LUCA for me. I can start thinking about that I was a student at the college and that I then I began directing ten years later, and I heard wonderful testimonials about this wonderful job. And so I thought that it was for me a calling, not just a job. And so in this time, it's very good for me, dedicating myself to students, to their human, academic, professional growth. Vency Mupupa [00:18:55]: Vancy here again. Thank you for that question. I can actually write a paragraph or a book on this question, but I'm going to summarize it because we don't have enough time. I think having gone back to school, to the university when I was 31 gave me an opportunity to experience residence life because I had never stayed in a residence. I had never stayed in a shared space, except with my family members. And immediately when I walked into that residence hall, I felt that I could contribute to that space. And within three months, I was appointed as a residence assistant. And I think that's where the passion was born. Vency Mupupa [00:19:33]: And as the years went by and I got involved in residence, I mean, student affairs, residence life as a student assistant, the passion just kept on being fueled. Although all of my qualifications are in law. The passion was just there. I left the university and I went to work for a law firm for a year. But I was still yearning to come back to the university to contribute and play a role in the lives of so many students. And I think when I heard about this degree, this Master's degree, it didn't take me a second to complete the forms because I really wanted to get an in depth understanding of what student affairs is, but also gain a lot of skills that I hope to impact wherever I go to in the world. So I'm literally excited about this Master's degree. So thank you for that. Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:20:25]: Ready? Again, I'd like to also provide a bit of context. It's important to explain it. As I mentioned, I do my PhD in Entomology and alongside this scientific work, I also serve as a Communications Officer at the Wageningen Doctoral Council where we work to enhance the quality of PhD trajectories and also promote the overall well being of the doctoral candidates at Wageningen University and research. So in this role I also get an opportunity to collaborate closely with the university leadership to improve the doctoral education communication and also the inclusivity. And I also chair the Career committee of the PhD Council at the National Graduate School in the Netherlands. And together with my colleagues we design and organize initiatives such as career talks, company visits and also alumni sessions at final year PhD retreats in close partnership with the PhD graduate schools. Experiences have allowed me to develop good leadership and organizational skills and more importantly, they have given me a deep appreciation for the human side of the academia, supporting students, fostering the professional growth and create an environment where everyone can thrive. So over the past three years my interest has steadily evolved towards the student affairs and also higher education administration. Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:21:44]: And as a researcher I realized that scientific progress is not only about experiments or publications, but also about the people, how they are supported, mentored and guided through the complex journey of higher education. My administrative involvement showed me how much impact does this thoughtful student policies and academic support systems can have on us. This realization really motivated me to take this Master's from Lumsa University because it combines the theory with also hands on experience, bridging both the European and global perspectives on student development, education, leadership and also the campus well being which is offered in close collaboration with UCA and naspa. And this is very much a unique opportunities to learn from international experts. And our cohort is really amazing. We have people from different countries covering four to five continents. So what I want is through this Master degree I really aim to gain Deeper understanding of student learning, advising and development, where I can apply this knowledge within the academy and beyond. So my long term goal is to build a hybrid career, one where I can continue my entomological research while dedicating part of my professional life to student affairs and higher education leadership. Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:23:00]: So I believe that by combining this scientific inquiry with a commitment to the student development creates more holistic, impactful academic career, one that not only advances science, but also strengthens the communities which sustain it. Leah Punch [00:23:16]: So why did I choose to study student affairs? So my background is also not in student affairs. My background is in geography. But while studying geography, my interest was always in community building and development and how we could develop communities. Just like many others in student affairs. I kind of also like just landed in student affairs. Like the air blew me into student affairs. But once I started working at my current university, I realized, like, I really enjoyed working with students, supporting students, kind of like co learning with them and helping them. Like, it's kind of like molding them for their future. Leah Punch [00:23:53]: I really enjoy that because I really enjoy that and I really enjoy supporting students. I was always like, interested in, okay, how could I support them better? How could I do this? And I think the natural next step was when I saw this master program was like, oh yeah, I could like formalize my learning a bit more. So not only what I learned from my job, I could also learn it like more in a more professional way. So yeah, I really enjoy what I do. So the natural next step for me was joining the master program to kind of like support my learning that I have in practice. Yeah, that's why I chose to like, further my study in this field. Julia Jaque [00:24:32]: I truly understand how valuable it is to have someone from student affairs by your side. During my own university journey, there were moments both academically and personally, when I felt the absence of a guiding presence. And that experience has shaped my desire to become that support for others. I would like to be that guide for someone else and help students achieve their academic and personal success. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:02]: I want to thank you all for sharing your motivations for being here. I also want to let you know that our dear colleague Julia unfortunately ended up having a technical difficulty, so she's not able to join us for the rest of our session today. But it's such a joy to work with you all in the technology space for this master's program and for our listeners. Our class today was learning about podcasting as a technological medium for working with students and student affairs. So I want to thank you all for choosing to share your voice with the naspa, AUKA and LUMSA communities and I'm looking forward to continuing our learning journey together. Thank you all so much. Julia Jaque [00:25:39]: Thank you very much. Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:25:41]: Thank you very much. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:42]: Thank you. Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:25:43]: Thank you for having us. Luca Corona [00:25:44]: Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:45]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:51]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in naspa. The Certified Student Affairs Educator is the core certification credential intended for mid level educators and above. NASPA offers both self guided and moderated opportunities to learn to help learners successfully prepare for the CSAED exam online. If you plan to apply to take the certification exam, you can utilize these resources to help you prepare to asap. There's a virtual info session on this application and preparation resources that are available. That will happen on November 18th and the application for this certification closes on December 15th. You can find out more at studentaffairscertification.org As a remember the NASPA Public Policy Hub consists of a compilation of policy research, coalition work and resources from naspa, other associations, nonprofit organizations and think tanks with expertise in various areas of higher education. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:53]: Based on input from staff, organizational partners and members, NASPA has curated this centralized resource to include policy trackers, articles, fact sheets, legislative summaries, and informational videos that outline state and in federal legislative and policy changes for student affairs professionals. The Policy Hub is a NASPA member only resource, so it is an amazing benefit to you as a NASPA member. If you've never logged in to check it out for yourself, I highly encourage you to log in to the Public Policy Hub for yourself on the NASPA website. You can get there by going to Learning finally, today, NASPA is proud to announce the release of its first ever Sexual Violence Respondent Services toolkit. Developing a framework Working with students accused of sexual violence, dating violence and or stalking in higher education as colleges and universities continue to strengthen their prevention and response systems, the need for thoughtful, equitable and trauma informed the respondent services has never been greater. This new publication provides practical guidance for higher education professionals supporting students accused of sexual or gender based harm, helping institutions balancing compassion, accountability and community well being. This publication explores what effective support services can look like beyond legal or clinical frameworks. Offering both theoretical foundations and actionable strategies to inform program design and institutional planning. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:31]: Campus practitioners will find in this book guiding frameworks for developing and evaluating respondent services Concrete strategies to define service scope and approach Adaptable tools and suggested language for direct practice reflection prompts to support professional development and staff training. Grounded in NASPA's commitment to holistic student well being, this resource is designed to help campuses create equity minded, community aligned approaches that meet the needs of both students and institutions. Whether you are building new support structures or refining existing processes, this framework offers a starting point for sustainable values driven practice. You can purchase Developing a Framework on the NASPA Learning site@learning naspa.org Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the Association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association. Whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the Association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:15]: I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:45]: Chris, thank you so much again for another informative NASPA World segment and keeping us updated on what's going on in and around naspa. If you're a regular listener to student affairs voices from the field, you might know this is where our Lightning Round usually pops up in our episodes. Because of the size of our guest list today we weren't able to complete the Lightning Round as normal, so we'll be closing out our episode here. But I want to thank all of our master students for being brave and being willing to put their voices into the space today. And also to all of you who are out there listening if you want to add more ideas to our show or if you'd like to contribute as a voice yourself. Friendly reminder, we're always looking to cast new voices in student affairs. You can find us by emailing us@sa voicesaspa.org if you want to find any of the students that were featured today, please feel free to search for them on LinkedIn. This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:43]: This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to to reach the show, you can email us@sa voicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:16]: This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

11/13/25 • 32:37

If you're looking for fresh perspectives on careers in student affairs—and a truly honest conversation about the journey ahead—don't miss the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field. In this episode, host Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Amy Hecht, Vice President for Student Affairs at Florida State University and co-editor of the new NASPA book, The Next Act: Realigning Your Mindset, Purpose, and Career. The central theme of the conversation is the evolving nature of careers in student affairs, especially as professionals face mid-career questions and disruptions in life. Dr. Amy Hecht shares her own journey, returning to her alma mater after years spent at various institutions, and reflects on the unique challenges and opportunities this brings. She emphasizes how being away for decades allowed her to maintain objectivity and openness to making necessary changes—rather than being "married to" her undergraduate experience. The podcast dives into the origins and vision for The Next Act book. As Dr. Amy Hecht explains, the project emerged during the COVID era, spurred by widespread burnout and the "Great Resignation." The book fills a major gap in the literature: it doesn't simply celebrate student affairs. Instead, it highlights realistic, sometimes raw conversations about burnout, career shifts, and redefining success. In her words, "There isn't one true path... It's an ebb and flow of a career over time and ways in which we find fulfillment." You'll hear about chapters spotlighting professionals who've moved into K-12 education, consulting, the faculty route, or transitioned into other sectors within or outside higher education. Stories from people like Karen Warren Coleman, who found new fulfillment in K-12 school leadership, and Jeanna Mastrodicasa's pivot within her institution, show just how many ways student affairs expertise translates beyond traditional upward mobility. Another powerful element highlighted is the Deck of Disruptors, adapted from Bruce Filer, which visually maps all the life events—both positive and negative—that can throw established plans off course. The episode makes it clear: disruptions are normal, and reevaluating career goals is healthy and essential. Finally, the conversation underscores the enduring value of student affairs: building community, supporting students through crises, and adapting to meet institutional goals. Dr. Amy Hecht urges professionals to articulate impact in data-driven and narrative ways, showing how student affairs shapes retention, graduation, and life outcomes. If you're contemplating your next steps, seeking inspiration, or just want to hear authentic voices in higher education leadership, tune in to this enlightening episode. It's a must-listen for anyone in student affairs considering what purpose, fulfillment, and possibilities look like in a changing world. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices, we are going to be talking about the book the Next Realigning your mindset, purpose, and career. This was a book published by NASPA in March of 2025, co edited by Jason B. Pina and Amy Hecht and Associates. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:42]: Our guest today is Dr. Amy Hecht, who has served as Vice President for Student affairs at Florida State University since 2017 and is a nationally recognized leader in higher ed with extensive experience shaping student success, campus life, and institutional strategy. Prior to returning to her alma mater, Dr. Hecht served as Vice President for Student affairs at the College of New Jersey, or tcnj, and held positions at Auburn University, Temple University, Cabrini College, and the University of Pennsylvania at Florida State. Dr. Hecht has established FSU as a national example for excellence in fraternity and sorority life, expanded on campus housing, and created new programs and services designed to advance student success. She's provided steady leadership through numerous campus crises and has also overseen initiatives such as the Lift Recovery Program, Health Campus 2030, and the launch of the DC Study Away Program. Her leadership has driven 150% increase in philanthropic giving to student affairs, reflecting her ability to align fundraising with transformational student impact. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:39]: Dr. Hecht's accomplishments have been recognized nationally with NASPA's Pillar of the Profession Award and the Scott Goodnight Award for Outstanding performance as a VPSA. Beyond her administrative leadership, Dr. Hecht is a respected thought leader and author. She's co edited two books and is frequently invited to contribute to national dialogues on student success, leadership development, and the future of higher ed. Her next book, Telling Time Management of Women in Senior Student Affairs Roles, which she co authored, will be available in 2026. Dr. Hecht earned her Bachelor's degree in Mass Communication from Florida State University and her master's and doctorate in Higher Ed Administration from the University of Pennsylvania. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:14]: Hope you enjoy our conversation. Amy, welcome to SA Voices. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:02:19]: Thank you. It's great to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]: We always love featuring our pillars of the profession here on the NASPA podcast, and you've been around NASPA for quite a long time, contributing positively to the profession, to the organization, and most recently as an author, which is what we're going to be primarily talking to you about today. But before we get into the book the Next act, which is co edited by Dr. Jason Pina, who's up at NYU and we also would love to start by asking you how you got to your current seat at Florida State. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:02:47]: Wow. So I started out like many people in student affairs because I was a very involved student at fsu. I, I am an alum and so it is a rare gift to go back to your alma mater. I was very involved and that is kind of my exposure to student affairs. Never thought I would come back to Florida. I actually wanted to be in the Northeast. Went to the University of Pennsylvania for my master's one year program. Got out and Pennsylvania has so many schools, was able to really spend quite a bit of time there. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:03:21]: As I moved up and got to work with vice presidents and dean of students, I realized I loved the administration side. I loved the organizational development and realized I had to go back and get my doctorate. My GRE scores were going to expire and thought I'll go back and I'll go real slow because I wasn't sure I wanted to be back yet. In the classroom and the process, I really enjoyed it. I kind of fell in love with the concept of organizational learning and got a call to go to Auburn University from a mentor and was there for four years and he kind of said, okay, now you've been an avp, you're ready to be a V. I did not think I was really loved that AVP role, but became the Vice president at the College of New Jersey right outside of Philadelphia and became region director of Region 2 of the College of New Jersey. Loved being there, but did get a call from the search firm about Florida State. And early on in my career I tried to kind of get back to the state of Florida. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:04:21]: It's where my family's from. Never worked out and was very flattered that I was nominated for FSU and said, oh, I'll just send them my resume, see what they think. Sure, there's way more qualified people. But I did get an airport interview and then fell in love with the people and the rest is history. So coming back, I've been, I had been gone, you know, over 20 years, so it is interesting. I know some of the history and some of the traditions and how important student life and the student experience is, but also worked many other places. So I kind of have the best of both worlds. I'm an insider, but haven't necessarily been brought up here and have only seen one thing. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:05:01]: I've seen a lot of other institutions and how they operate. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:04]: I think that's always so interesting to go back to your alma mater. We have stories where people loved working on both ends of that as a student and as a full time administrator and other people who said that it really changed their perspective on their alma mater and not necessarily in the way that they wanted it to. So can you tell us a little bit more about creating some sense between the things you loved as an undergraduate student and the things that you're working towards improving as an administrator? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:05:28]: I do think that's really interesting because now you kind of. Now this is how the sausage is made. And as a student, and I was not the SGA president, I didn't fill any of those roles. So I really didn't see some of the upper work happening at Florida State when I was a student. The state of Florida has a really great program called Bright Futures. So if you have a certain GPA and SAT score, you get 75% of your tuition paid. So for my family it was, this is choose one of the state schools in Florida and you're going there. Even though I had dreams of, I don't know, going to New York or Hawaii, but financially I was here, I do think it's challenging Florida State and maybe this is the same for all of the state schools in Florida. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:06:08]: We get a tremendous amount of financial support from the state. They've been very generous and that comes with a lot of oversight. Other states that I've worked in have not had the level of oversight involvement of their state legislature. And I think that has been very difficult. But I do think me being gone as long as I have been and coming back, I am not as mirrored towards my experience has to be the experience of all of our future students. There are things that have changed and some that haven't since I had been gone. So I think that has helped me not kind of taint my own undergraduate experience once you see how it works. And there had. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:06:49]: There were decisions made by administration when I was a student that now I'm thinking I'm paying for some of those decisions now, or we're trying to fix a decision that was made, you know, 20 something years ago. But for me it has, it hasn't been a problem, but I could see how, how it could be. But I do think that the length of time I was gone really helped because so much time has passed and I don't have a great memory of that long ago to really remember a lot of my undergrad experience for some reason. So I do think I'm able to make changes and not be kind of too married to any of the things that I experienced as a student. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:25]: Amy, we really want to dig into the book today, the Next act, which is one of NASPA's newest publications. It just came at an annual conference about five, six months ago. It's really filling a gap in the literature that we haven't seen before. So it was an exciting thing to see a book that really had some honesty in it around. Careers in Student affairs had more to it than the positive side of the profession. It had lots of realistic and truthful conversations in it from the people that wrote the essays. Lots of wonderful and familiar names in the author list as well. But you and Dr. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:58]: Pina had put this together. Can you talk about the vision for the book? What inspired you both to take a moment to put this into the space in the literature? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:08:07]: Right now, I have to give my good friend Dr. Pina Credit. He came to me during COVID during the Great Resignation and all the challenges we experienced, and said, I think there's something here about what are people doing? What has been the effect of COVID And then as we were writing it, Covid kind of passed and, you know, we got back into In Person and it evolved to what it. What it became as the Next act, which I think for me personally, it was a really fulfilling project because I have always been someone who is focused on a goal. What is next? Someday I want to be a vice president of student affairs. Someday I want to do this. And getting my current position as the VP of Student affairs at Florida State is, in my opinion, one of the best jobs in student affairs in the country. Maybe others feel the same. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:09:01]: And it was, well, what is next? And what if I don't want to do this work? What if I get too burnt out? So much has happened and so much has changed in the almost 30 years I've been in the profession. It is not at all what I thought it was, nor. Or is it the same as somebody who was a VP in 2001? A very different field, very different challenges, and it's all I've known as a career. It's all, you know, Jason is known as well, and it is what would be next? What could I do with all this experience, all this education and. Or am I trapped, personally, am I trapped in my current role or only in this job? And you're not, and not even if you're a vice president. But what do we do with these higher education degrees, these student affairs experiences. What if I want to get out of the fields? And what would that look like? And we, we kind of joked, I don't know if NASA is really going to want us to publish this book. That might be encouraging folks to look elsewhere. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:10:05]: I have found it gave me a sense of security in read, reading the book and all of the fabulous authors journeys and it gave me a sense of peace of actually no, I'm making a choice to continue to be where I am. But if I wanted to find a new path or do something different, I have so many options that aren't necessarily just moving up in student affairs and becoming an AVP or a dean of students. There is a lot more we can do at these degrees that maybe aren't always put front and center or it's not how we entered thinking that was going to be our next goal. But there's still very fulfilling ways in which you can still contribute, use the skills you've obtained, the degrees that you've obtained. And I think there's a certain amount of freedom that that has given me and others who realize there isn't one true path. It's not always up and to the right. You know, you're not always just moving straight up and down. It's an ebb and flow of a, of a career over time and ways in which we find fulfillment. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:07]: One of the points made early on in the book is that, you know, millennials are coming into the vice presidencies now. Most millennials are in their early 40s at this point in time, which means there's 25 working years left in a career, which is more career left than has already been in the rear view. And that's a lot of time in a seat. It's a lot of time to think about, am I the right person for this seat for that long period of time? Is that the best thing for this institution? It's an interesting question to ask. We also have perspectives from presidents who have come through student affairs in the book. I think you just made that great point that the career trajectory doesn't always have to be quote, unquote upward. Not all of us want to be presidents of institutions. It's a really tricky time to be a president of an institution. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:50]: And much like a VPSA role, I think we're seeing a lot of transition and possibly burnout in the presidency position. So this book really kind of pathways out some different choices where we're still progressing, we're still learning, but doesn't necessarily mean that we have to continue to move up an institutional hierarchy to find fulfillment. So can you talk about the different pathways that are laid out in the book and maybe some chapters in particular from authors who have taken those pathways. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:12:19]: I had that very same experience. I became a vice president in my 30s and most recently was meeting with my new president a few years ago. And he said, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I don't know. I'm happy right now, but I have another 20 plus years to work and I just don't know if I can do this work with the same energy and love for another 25 years. I'm good for now, but in all realism, I don't know if I could do it. And I think there are people who have done it and they do it well and I admire them, but I don't want to have to do it because I don't have another choice. And some of the chapters and Jason and I divided so he had half of the author and I had the other half and went back and forth on their chapters. But a few that really spoke to me. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:13:07]: Karen Warren Coleman, she is a good friend of mine. We did start the AVP Institute at NASPA together. We were both AVPs at the same time. And she is currently ahead of A K through 12 school now in Philadelphia. She was in Texas and moved to a different sort of education. And her chapter, I wrote back after reading her chapter and I said, wow, you make this sound really exciting, exciting, really enticing. And the skills that you're using are, are so similar that I don't know if I thought of it because I did not grow up attending a boarding school or I went to public school in independent school. But you think of the skill set of these K through 12 or some version of that with housing, with dining, with mental health and curriculum, these heads of school, the skill set is very similar and very attractive. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:14:05]: Something she felt would still allow her to come back to higher ed at a later date if she wanted. But I found that to be really interesting. I also had the chapter on going the consulting route and folks that have become either search consultants or working for any of the firms we've used across our campuses like Huron or kpmg and their knowledge being really great, adding some flexibility, perhaps earning a greater salary, but being aware of the differences of corporate America, the sales part of those jobs. I think I would love the research part, but they really shed light on the pieces that you might not think about is finding the business. You've got to bring in the work on that area. So I think each of the chapters are really interesting. There's a few others you mentioned the presidency, some that have gone to the faculty and are just excelling being in faculty coming from student affairs. A few that have worked outside of student affairs at their same institution are different. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:15:12]: Using their institutional knowledge in a new way I think is something we don't often think about, but our skills are still applicable, whether it's in the academic affairs arm, research arm, or so on. So really looking at that I think is exciting. I do think it really opens the door and allows us to do what we tell students to do, which is think about those transferable skills, what they're learning inside and outside the classroom, and how it applies to any number of pieces. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:41]: There are a couple other ones to highlight in case practitioners listening are interested in picking this one up. One is about shifting roles within the same institution and I see a really familiar name to the podcast and to NASPA, Gino Mastodacaska and Katie O'Dare. Both of them have been in the NASPA world for a bit, but Gina transitioned completely into a different side of the institution out of student affairs after a long career in student affairs and is really thriving in a very different niche within the institution. I'm also seeing one on transitioning from higher ed into new industries and these are young industries that are happening outside of higher education. And as Amy mentioned, there's also some information here on the consulting role and some other things that are really valuable. There's a chapter also on shifting institution types and particularly I've heard from people that are trying to start serving community college spaces from four years and are struggling with that because the community college needs are quite different than a four year need and complete mindset shift around that. So an interesting one to call attention to. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:16:42]: Absolutely. And I do think we're aware that serving different kinds of students makes a really big difference whether it's community college going to maybe an HBCU or an hsi urban versus rural. So those are all ways to kind of challenge our skill set, learn something new and then the going global chapter. Still you being in the uk, I dream someday of moving to a foreign country and having that experience. But the learning in that chapter and the opportunity to bring student affairs in America, which is not how most other countries deliver higher education, is great, but also the learning those authors shared because they had to also learn a new culture, not just of a campus but of a country to be able to deliver. I think is is a really interesting for those that can Find that kind of work and move their families or move themselves. I think it. That's a really exciting way and that Glass Going Global chapter. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:41]: And I'll give it a shout out to those authors. It's Dr. Ainslie Carey, Dr. Raphael X Moffat, and Dr. Baishaki Taylor, all of whom have been on Essay Voices. So if you want to hear their international voices, go check out our past season on International Voices in Student affairs and just give some credit for them because their episodes are wonderful. One of the things you feature in the book as well at the very, very beginning is something called the deck of Disruptors, which is kind of a theory that comes out of an author called Bruce Filer. And this deck of disruptors is basically a list of all the things in our life that can derail the pathways that we're on. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:14]: And I'd never seen this image before, and I thought it was quite interesting because I went, oh, well, these all are, I think, in some ways pretty obvious, but when you put them in one infographic, you go, oh, wait, this makes a lot of sense about why my pathway might need to change. Can you talk about your choice to include this image and kind of how that sets up the book? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:18:32]: I think we don't talk about that a lot. I do think Covid has led many of us to collectively have a disruption. But disruptors can be positive and in some ways they can be negative. But they could be the birth of a child, a marriage, a spouse, getting a really new, exciting opportunity that requires you to move. It could be a divorce, illness, any number of pieces that make you stop and reexamine that goal of did I really always want to be a president or always want to be a vice president? It might not fit into your current priorities of what's important in your life at that moment. And I think that that is okay to acknowledge that, you know, we always. I. I laugh and I do this to my girls as well. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:19:15]: What do you want to be when you grow up? And it's rare that you actually know the answer to that or you're going to stick to it, but I do think there's maybe an unconscious desire to stick to what we said we were going to do when we started out. I knew a lot of folks that said, I'm going to go into higher ed and eventually become a president. I know very few of them who still want to become a president of an institution. So I think it's also giving grace of just because you said you always wanted to become X, your journey might require something different. And that's okay. It's okay to shift. And there's lots of disruptions. And in fact, we in our life are having more of those disruptions than we've ever had. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:19:57]: And that is why our careers ebb and flow. And that is a natural part of life is those kinds of things that might disrupt us, our path. And growing up, you don't think of getting married or having a child as maybe causing you to reorganize, organize your priorities. But it absolutely does. And it's always interesting to see why people go on those paths. And some of our authors do share their reasons for stepping out of higher ed into consulting or going into the faculty. Some of it is just professional and career fulfillment, but some of it is because life things happened in their life and they needed to adapt and evolve. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:34]: If you'd like to look this up again, it's called Deck of Disruptors, and it breaks down the disruptors into five major categories of love, beliefs, work, identity, and body. So it's things like a car accident or being diagnosed with an illness or maybe a change in your living situation or, you know, something related to a change in your relationship or something like that. So lots of different ones to look up again. The author of this infographic is Bruce Filer. Fantasy E I L E R Amy, I want to talk a little bit about the process of creating an edited volume like this. You've been an author and a scholar for a long time and published your own work, but it's a little bit different when you're the holder of the keys for a volume like this. If I've been authoring and I want to do something like this, how do I even begin? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:21:19]: Sure, that's. That is a good question. I've had folks ask that. Jason and I have now done two edited books. Some people love that process and some people do not. I love it. It is important to pick great authors. So we shaped the idea and submitted it to NASPA with our wish list of authors of who we know, who we may tap to write some of the chapters we came up with. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:21:44]: And after being approved by naspa, we started inviting authors and in some cases needed to get new recommendations, making sure we had kind of a diversity of experiences that we could find and know people who went to K12 or who became president. And for us this time we divided those authors and we go back and forth on their chapter. We have found asking them to outline it and have a due date and then write us a little more. And then we are constantly reading, giving feedback, making sure that they are staying true to the purpose we submitted to NASPA at the beginning, but also capturing their voice and their expertise and their journey and making sure that as we read it, we hope that the readers aren't going to be left with any questions. So we ask, you know, them to expand on this or if you're willing, can you share the reason why you did Y or X, Y and Z? Because I think for authors, being as raw and as vulnerable is really useful to know that other people are struggling with maybe taking a step back in their career for their children or maybe stepping out so that their spouse can do something different. And we don't often talk about that. So I thought that was that was kind of part of it. I mean we read it multiple times, but then we read it holistically and together to make sure that it flows and kind of tells a cohesive story. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:07]: And you've got another volume coming out next year on empowering women in leadership and student affairs. Can you say anything about that at this point? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:23:14]: Yes, we have submitted that book and we're waiting for edits from our editor. But that book is will be called Telling Time. It is authored book me and four other women on senior women in student affairs and how they use their time. We conducted over a hundred studies of women's use of time in 15 minute increments, really trying to capture the story of how women prioritize different aspects of their life, how in which they care for children, care for loved ones, spend time on relationships and attempt to balance everything and prioritize at different points. And you know, you really can't have it all. We know that. But but how are women kind of using their most precious resource, which is time, when they have a lot of competing priorities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:02]: Would you like to shout out your co authors? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:24:03]: I will Angela Chong, who is the VP at the University of Oregon Brittany Deves, who works at Florida State with me and fraternity and sorority life Kelly Hennessy at the College of New Jersey and Tina Torme, also at the College of New Jersey. Some awesome women writers. And so we are, we are really excited for that book to come out hopefully in 2026. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:25]: Looking forward to reading that study. Any highlights that you can share about your findings early on? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:24:29]: Some highlights is most of us, most of the women do not spend time thinking about how they use their time like we would our financial budget or budgeting our time doing the study kind of forced some of these women to do that and reprioritize wastes of time, things that we do to kind of decompress that feel good in the moment, but in hindsight, don't. Just like a diet, if you're writing everything down, you're going, oh, that wasn't probably the best thing for me to eat. It felt good in the moment. We found that with, with time as well. And just even if you're not participating in a study, even just doing that has helped people feel more productive. But we also found what I say, I prioritize. The majority of us don't spend our time on the things that we say are a priority. And I think that doing this periodically, even with a friend, can just help you stay true to what you say, you value or what's important to you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:23]: This season, we're focusing on the value of student affairs as our theme. And we've been asking the same three theme questions to all of our guests, so I'd love to pose those to you now. Our first question is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:25:38]: What comes comes to me first is really community. I think community both on our campuses, that is what we do. We create places for people to belong, for people to feel that they matter, people to find their purpose. We do that with our students. I feel we do it with our staff and our teams. And I think naspa, they do it actually for the globe because we're an international organization. But there's so many different levels of community that I have seen throughout my career. Help students, help staff, help vice presidents and others, navigate really tough issues, but feel like you are not alone. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:26:15]: And I think that is probably our superpower. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:18]: Our second question, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:26:23]: Quite a bit. During my 8 years now at Florida State, we've had a significant challenge almost every year. I'm going to knock on wood, but we had a, most recently a campus shooter in our student union, which is the living room of our campus. Brand new building, beautiful, very open space, purposefully all glass so you can see throughout the multiple levels. And our sense of safety for the staff and our faculty and our students was disrupted in that moment. Several students were injured. We lost two administrators, one that worked in our dining and one who is a visiting vendor. And in the heels of that, seeing my team come together to support each other, to support students, to do things outside of their job description, to help heal both themselves and our students and our community. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:27:16]: Everything from creating new community centers because we couldn't use our student union. So we did that on campus. But then the outpouring from colleagues across the country, offers to help was incredible. And the value of student affairs flexibility, our knowledge of emergency protocol, our ability to counsel students to be vulnerable with them was really telling. Myself and the president would often come to our newly created community center and the president would say, this is as healing for me as it is for these students. And I say, you know, absolutely, being in community with people after a crisis is the best way to heal. And I think our contributions were seen by everyone and we felt at Florida State the love from those that were thinking of us during that tragedy. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:12]: Thank you for sharing that really vulnerable piece of the student affairs stories because I think when we have violence and other components like that that happen to our campuses or loss of a student or something like that, I know for me, I've carried those moments with me personally for a really. And so we're there supporting everybody else and also trying to figure out how to take care of ourselves as human beings in those moments. And those are incredibly hard. So thank you and your team for holding, holding all that for the Florida State students. Our third question is what do you think that student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:28:49]: I do think that that is a challenge. It's one what we're facing at Florida State, I think some of it is we've got to translate our impact into the language that our institutions are using. Graduation, retention rates, career readiness. How are we contributing to the metrics that in the state of Florida and elsewhere, we are being measured on. We know there are other words that we can use that are important and valued, but we need to be speaking the language that others at the institution are using. We need to do better with data and telling our story and having the data to show some of what may be seen as an extra or an add on or a nice to have the value of that and the benefit, whether that's to mental health, a sense of belonging, graduation and retention, a lot of those pieces. And I feel there are so many contemporary issues on our campus event safety, free speech, mental health, workforce development, career readiness. All of those things are within student affairs realm, things that we do naturally, not just in the departments whose name, you know, are associated, but all of what we do. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:29:59]: And so I think it's really sharing that. And being at the table, I think is important for the policy and the budget, I would say, are some of the top things we need to do and Become like Pat Whiteley, also one of our authors, the best vice president on the cabinet. How are you part of those conversations and shaping the narrative and bringing the student voices and the student experience to the table? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:21]: As someone who gets to interact with that cabinet and also the students and the families that are at fsu, what data points are you bringing to the table right now that are really helping tell that story? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:30:32]: Some of them are the fact that students that are living on campus with us and we have 45,000 students, but only 6,700 on campus beds. But of those, they have higher GPAs, they're retained at greater rates, and they graduate at higher levels. So that is a telling, powerful story of what is happening in our residence halls that does not happen in an off campus apartment. And how do we grow that experience so that more students have that opportunity? And so we are adding to our bed count. We are also investing in six months post graduation. Where are our students? Where are our graduates? Are they in graduate school? Are they gainfully employed? And then where are they five years out, 10 years out telling that story? And what were those experiences they had at fsu? You that they contribute to their career success? And oftentimes it is the job at campus recreation, it is being an ra, it is being in the student government that was a powerful experience that they still refer to. And I think telling those stories and putting alumni out there is really important. But part of kind of that value of what we do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:41]: Are you using any narrative data points in order to help tell the story of student affairs, especially for areas of student affairs that maybe we can't as easily create cause and effect data or demonstrate that the support that we're offering students in those spaces might, might have that long term impact on their journey, but maybe is not evident. Semester one to semester two, we do. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:32:04]: We can do better. We do collect some narratives, especially when it's a sensitive topic like our emergency Student aid fund and the impact it has or victims advocate program or case management. We could do more, of course, and really bringing those stories to life. But I do think it's very impactful. I've seen it impact our board of trustees who hear one story and then we say there are 30 others behind this story that show the impact of, you know, our food pantry or any of the programs we have. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:33]: Amy, as we conclude our conversation on the book and the work that you're doing at Florida State, is there anything else you want to put into our space today? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:32:41]: One of the great things about my current gig is that you can kind of dream. I'm really proud of like a number of things we're doing, some of which are advancing like the greater goals of Florida State. We just launched a DC Study Away program which is modeled after our International Study Abroad program. We have property housing purchased in Washington D.C. and we will have our students living there and interning fall, spring and summer and that aligns with our President's goals as well as our VP of Research goals which is to have a greater presence in D.C. and it was really fulfilling to be able to kind of plant the first flag for Florida State in D.C. and hopefully others will come. A lot of schools have already gotten to the DC market and have different programs, but the one we're contributing right now is a very student centric experience that we want to give our students the opportunity to live and learn in Washington D.C. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:33:41]: so that's exciting and who knows what new ideas we'll come up with here and try to implement. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:46]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:53]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The NASPA Annual Conference has identified two of their keynote speakers for the 2026 NASPA Annual Conference. The Tuesday keynote will be Dr. Kevin McClure. Dr. McClure is a professor, researcher and speaker dedicated to reimagining the higher education workplace. A distinguished Scholar of higher education, McClure holds the joint title of professor of Higher Education and Department Chair at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:25]: He is the author of the Caring Reimagining the Higher Education Workplace after the Great Resignation. His research on college leadership, workplace culture and organizational care has been featured in the Chronicle of Higher Edition Education and at national conferences. Through McClure's writing, keynotes and workshops, he helps leaders create people first campuses where faculty and staff can thrive. McClure is passionate about helping colleges and universities build a culture where faculty and staff can thrive because when employees feel supported, students and institutions succeed. Our closing keynote is Dr. Amelia Parnell. Dr. Parnell is an accomplished higher education executive and an internationally recognized thought leader regarding current issues in EM trends in the field. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:11]: She is a passionate advocate for higher education as a tool for personal advancement and impact, and she is committed to work that centers students needs. In her first year as NASPA President, she has met the members across the world, including NASPA regions, divisions, knowledge communities and areas, and has visited more than 25 campuses to speak directly with student affairs professionals. She frequently delivers keynotes on the value of student affairs and has been quoted in the Wall Street Journal, the Chronicle of Higher Education, Inside Higher Ed, and the PBS NewsHour. Dr. Parnell holds a PhD in higher education from Florida State University and a master's and bachelor's degree in Business Administration from Florida A and M University. Just a reminder that the early registration deadline for the 2026 conference ends on December 17th. You can register today on the NASPA website. Do you need help funding attendance at an upcoming NASPA event? Event NASPA Foundation Access Scholarships may be able to help Donor Gifts have funded scholarships directly supporting conference registrations and on site housing for select NASPA events and opportunities. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:19]: The following dates are the deadlines for some of the upcoming applications. November 12th is the deadline for the first cycle of Student affairs educator certification. November 14th is the deadline for the 2026 NASPA strategies conferences as well as the 2026 NASPA institute for new AVPs and the 2026 NASPA AVP symposium. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Finally, NASPA, alongside a coalition of 38 science, business, education and research organizations, submitted public comments to Citizenship and Immigration Services opposing the proposed rule to implement a wage level lottery for cap subject H1B petition. The comments indicated that the proposed rule would privilege seniority in lower wage occupations over genuinely high wage, high skill roles, undermine the retention of early career STEM talent educated in the US and weaken US Scientific and economic competitiveness. The coalition urged USCIS to withdraw the proposed rule. If you'd like to see the comments on this proposed rule, you can learn more in the Policy Hub on the NASPA website. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:34]: Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association, so we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:59]: Chris, thank you so much for another informative NASPA world. We appreciate you keeping us up to date on what's going on in and around naspa. And Amy, it is time for our lightning round where I ask you seven questions in about 90 seconds. You ready to roll? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:13]: I'm ready. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:14]: All right, question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:19]: The Fugees, Ready or not. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:20]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:23]: A doctor. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:24]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:27]: Ainslie Carey. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:28]: Number four, your essential student affairs read right now. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:31]: The next act. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:32]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:34]: Scandal. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:35]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:38]: The Daily New York Times. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:40]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional to? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:44]: My friend Jason Pina, thank you so much for always calling me to partner with any crazy idea you have. So so shout out to him. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:52]: Amy, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today. If anyone would like to converse with you after the show, how can they find you? Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:58]: Best Way is LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn @AmyHacked or my email at FloridaState is ahactsu. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:06]: Amy, thank you so very much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Amy Hecht [00:40:09]: Thank you. It's great to be with you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:15]: This has been an episode of Savage Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@savoicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple, Podcast, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:45]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

11/6/25 • 41:13

If you work in higher education or care about college access and affordability, "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" continues to be a must-listen. In this season's fifth episode, host Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes Melanie Storey, President and CEO of the National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators (NASFAA), to demystify the changing landscape of student financial aid and its deep ties to student affairs. The episode dives headfirst into the rapid-fire changes shaping higher education funding today. Melanie, bringing decades of experience from policy implementation at the U.S. Department of Education and leadership roles throughout Washington, D.C., articulates how student financial aid has evolved. From its beginnings with the Higher Education Act and the emergence of need-based aid, she describes the ongoing tension between supporting students with the greatest financial need and responding to broader shifts in public opinion about the value of higher education. A major theme in the conversation is the "One Big Beautiful Bill Act" (OB3), which is making waves with its broad changes to loan programs, repayment plans, and institutional accountability. Melanie clarifies complex topics like Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), repayment clarity, and the introduction of earnings measures for universities. She urges student affairs professionals to recognize the uncertainty this creates for students—not just in their financial planning but in their emotional well-being and sense of security while pursuing degrees. For families embarking on their college journey, Melanie recommends making the most of resources like StudentAid.gov and financial aid estimators, emphasizing that fit—academic, social, and financial—matters more than chasing prestigious institutions. She also unpacks new programs like Workforce Pell, which expands grant eligibility to short-term vocational programs, opening new avenues for career-focused students. Throughout, Melanie champions student affairs professionals as the human heart of higher education. Whether helping students navigate anxiety about finances or bridging connections with financial aid offices, she sees these campus leaders as vital advocates and problem-solvers. If you're looking for practical insights, clarity on policy changes, and a dose of optimism in "interesting" times, this episode will deepen your understanding. Tune in to hear about the evolving relationship between student affairs and financial aid—and be reminded why student affairs matters more than ever in helping students thrive. Listen to "Student Affairs Voices from the Field: Melanie Storey" now and join the conversation shaping the future of higher education!   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices, it's our privilege to welcome Melanie Storey, who is the President and CEO of nasfa, which is the national association of Student Financial Aid Administrators. She began her tenure on May 1st of 2025. With decades of experience in federal higher education policy, financial aid operations and organizational leadership, Story brings deep expertise and a steadfast commitment to advancing access and equity in higher education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:52]: Storey most recently served as Director of Policy Implementation and oversight at the U.S. of Education's Office of Federal Student Aid, or FSA, where she led cross functional teams in translating federal policy into practice. She played a central role in implementing the FAFSA Simplification act and the Future act, and contributed to major initiatives like federal student loan debt relief. She frequently represented FSAA before congressional staff, administration officials, and higher education leaders. Before joining the department, Story led policy and strategy work at the College Board and served as Director of National Initiatives at the American Council on Education, where she supported national commissions, analyzed legislative proposals, and led public service campaigns. Earlier in her career, she was a policy analyst at the national association of Independent Colleges and Universities, or naicu, conducting research and collaborating with government relations staff on federal policy proposals impacting private institutions. A proud first generation college graduate and financial aid recipient, Saray earned a Master's degree in Public affairs from the Lyndon B. Johnson School at the University of Texas at Austin and holds a bachelor degree in Economics and Public Policy seat from Smith College. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:03]: Melanie welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field. Melanie Storey [00:02:06]: Thank you, thank you. Hey Jill, it's great to be with y' all today. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:08]: I always love doing crossovers with other higher ed professional associations because we all occupy the same industry but very different lanes within the industry, almost like many verticals. So it's great to talk to a subject matter expertise in in an area that deeply affects the student affairs profession. But most of us definitely are not. Melanie Storey [00:02:25]: Experts on yeah, no, I really appreciate it and I think more than ever in the current environment it is so important that we we be talk about the things that we're facing within our own lanes, but across our lanes because it is really a pretty transformational time that we're dealing with right now. I keep saying that I welcome to live in less interesting times, but I don't think that that's going to happen anytime soon. So I really welcome the opportunity to spend some time together, talk about student affairs and financial aid. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:52]: The meme that I keep seeing is, you know, I'm tired of unprecedented times. I'd rather go back to precedented times. And I think a lot, you know. Melanie Storey [00:03:00]: Whatever the Confucius may, you live in interesting times. I'm like, no, thank you. I'm have a NASA thumb. Thanks. I'm good. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:06]: We could use some boring around here. That'd be fine. Melanie Storey [00:03:07]: I'll take it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:08]: But Melanie, you've been with NASA now just for a hair over a year, I believe, and came to NASA from the U.S. department of Education. But we like to get to know our guests more specifically by asking, how did you get to your current seat, if you wouldn't mind sharing the journey? Melanie Storey [00:03:22]: Yeah, so it might feel like a hair over a year, but it's really only been about five months. I started in late spring at NASA, took some time off from my time at the department. I took a little cleanser time before jumping in. So I have always been what I will say, say is financial aid adjacent. I guess I haven't worked in a financial aid office in my career, but I started even in undergrad, really focused on education policy. I was really interested in policy from the very start. And when I finished my undergrad, I moved to Washington, as many young, eager people do with, you know, kind of like a suitcase and a very light checkbook and hope for the best. I kind of fell into higher education policy. Melanie Storey [00:04:01]: You know, I think a lot of policy programs tend to focus on K12, and that was kind of true for me early on. And then my first job was with a contractor on the Pell Grant, Right. Fundamental grant to support low income students. And I kind of, it opened my eyes to higher education policy and access and affordability. And I'm a first generation college student. And it was really like, well, yeah, duh, this is, this is important. Like this really makes really important change in people's lives. And so it kind of started there. Melanie Storey [00:04:30]: I've been in Washington almost the entirety since then. I've worked for various associations that represent college and university presidents, the College Board, and then as you mentioned, the U.S. department of Education. So I've always been fully committed to affordability and access and making sure that the doors of higher education are open to all those that seek it. And so when the NASPA position opened, it really is a dream job. For me, I mean, it is leading a group of incredibly dedicated professionals who share the principles and goals that I have built my entire career around. And so I'm thrilled to be in the job. It is definitely a challenging time, but I'm fully committed and proud to be the voice of those who are committed to the students that they serve. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:10]: And NASFA for our listeners, if you're new to this particular acronym, is the national association of Student Financial Aid Administrators. So a sister cousin organization to us here at naspa. Melanie Storey [00:05:22]: And oftentimes you use naspa, nasfa. You have to be very diction has to be really good to make sure you're not confusing us. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:28]: There's also nafsa, which is the students abroad. Melanie Storey [00:05:32]: You know, we joke about the Alphabet soup. It's real. But yes. Yeah, NASA, student financial aid administrators. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:37]: And just because I'm originally from the Seattle metro area, I do want to clarify. Melanie's in Washington D.C. that's important. Melanie Storey [00:05:43]: That is the bubble you've identified that we, when you're here too long, you just, you make these assumptions. Yes. I have largely lived in Washington D.C. for most of my career. I did spend a few years in Austin doing some graduate work. Washington D.C. which quite frankly Washington State and Seattle sound much better these days. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:01]: Melanie, you have seen the arc of student financial aid, student affordability change drastically over the course of your career. Can you talk us through a bit of kind of what that rainbow has looked like from what the mission looked like when you started versus kind of what the daily work looks like now? Melanie Storey [00:06:18]: Yeah, I mean that's a really, it's an interesting question. Right, like what that ARC looks like just to like sort of level set, right. Like financial aid and the sort of art and science. And I like to talk about it a little bit as both sometimes the art and science of financial aid really came to pass with the Higher Education Act. So the Higher Education act of course is what really codified some of the core financial aid programs. Loans, preexisted basic education grants, but Pell grants, federal student loans, the kind of things we know about today. So that means it's about 60 years old. So not that old in relation to some of the other things, but pretty well established. Melanie Storey [00:06:54]: And I think what we're kind of facing now is you kind of have the stor norm kind of things that happen. And I think that's a little bit of what you see in the arc. I think in the early days you saw this really kind of visceral commitment to need based aid and the primacy of need based aid. And just for clarity, need based aid is directing funds to the students who need the funds in order to access post secondary education. So the counterbalance to that would be merit so that, you know, scholarships and aid that is awarded based on a student's achievement in any number of areas. But I think in the federal programs you saw a real commitment and dedication to the focus on need and lower income families and giving them the support they needed to make sure that their students had access to higher education. Over the course of my time I think we've seen a lot of push and pull around this need merit debate. And you know, they don't have to be mutually exclusive, although the pie is limited. Melanie Storey [00:07:52]: I don't want to make it seem like it is without boundaries, but you tend to see a movement where loans, federal student loans, are less targeted toward the lowest income students. They are generally since the mid-80s, I won't get into legislative language, but since the mid late 80s that middle income and even middle upper income families can also access loans with the core sort of grant programs still really being focused on the lowest income students. But that sets up a lot of policy challenges and appropriations challenges. Right? Loans are mandatory, funded, they don't have to be funded every year. Again getting kind of technical, But Pell grants have to be funded every year. So you see this kind of tension kind of building over the course of my career. The other thing that I think has really been a dramatic shift and we're seeing it play out in public opinion polling and in other places where the general public is being asked is around the value of higher education, whether it's federal or state. Governments are literally investing hundreds of billions. Melanie Storey [00:08:50]: It's not over time, trillions of dollars in higher education. They want to know what they're buying and that they're getting a value for that investment. And I think confidence in the value of higher education has really changed over the course of my career. And so that has a kind of broader. It's not specific to financial aid, but it has a real impact because financial aid of course is the distribution of the funds that are invested in this effort. And so I think one of the things, and I'm sure we'll get to this at some point that I and thinking about at NASA is how do we recapture that narrative? How do we really fully demonstrate the transformative value of higher education, whether it be for the individual, the family, the community, but also our nation. It drives innovation, it drives research and really making sure that, that we can tell that story and the return on that investment. So that has been sort of the overall kind of context that I think has really changed in higher education. Melanie Storey [00:09:44]: So you both want to make sure that you're focusing on need based aid. Although merit has value and we see more of that, but also that we can demonstrate that what we're investing in is really advancing individuals, communities in our nation. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:56]: We're in a situation now where the Department of Education is really changing the way that financial aid is implemented and distributed to students at the undergraduate and graduate levels. We saw the one big beautiful Bill ACT pass just a couple of months ago. We know a lot of those changes aren't actually going to take effect until the next academic year or some even beyond that. But NASA has developed a really great chart resource that talks about a lot of the changes and where they impact us and our students. But from a student affairs professional perspective, there's a large number of us who have been relying on public service loan forgiveness for our own journeys. So I'm wondering if we can start there and can you tell us what we know about how the OBBBA is going to change how we engage with federal financial aid from ourselves as professionals? Melanie Storey [00:10:50]: Yeah. Wow. That's a good question. I call it OB3 because the one big beautiful Bill act is a tongue twister and a lot of words. So I'm going to just default to my OB3 if you don't mind. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:00]: That's great. I'm going to steal that. Melanie Storey [00:11:02]: Yeah, it just, it's a lot when you talk about this and you lose a lot of time speaking that way. So a couple of things about ob. Let's start with public service loan forgiveness. Public service loan forgiveness has had a journey of its own, is I think, sort of a policy that, while deeply well intentioned, has been victim to overwrought design at times. When we saw that early on when so few people were able to be eligible or be able to demonstrate that they were, I think in the previous administration we saw great strides in being able to kind of bring clarity to it and be able to ensure that more folks who were dedicating their careers to public service were able to take advantage of it. And then the current administration, I think is looking at it a little bit differently, although, you know, I don't. My crystal ball is often cracked, I think, in terms of forgiveness programs. And I say that deliberately because remember in the previous administration there was a lot of talk around forgiveness broadly that was really around what they saw was dysfunction in the loan repayment area. Melanie Storey [00:11:59]: And so they were there was a desire to try to provide some relief to borrowers who quite frankly had been victim of a lot of confusion in the loan repayment space. I think all the politics of that aside, that's largely settled law at this point. We're not going to see broad based forgiveness. There's no appetite for that. And quite frankly, you know, I think it has kind of been before the courts and the decision has been made. Public service loan forgiveness, however, is different. It has generally enjoyed bipartisan support. I do think that there is support for supporting individuals who may forego bigger salaries or lots of things in order to commit 10 years of their life to public service. Melanie Storey [00:12:38]: So I'm pretty confident that PSLF is on solid ground now. Do I think that that means it won't be without some changes? The answer there, I'm afraid to say, is no. And the two things that I would point out, I'm sure if you're following this, you're aware that there was a negotiated rulemaking that's a very fancy Washington D.C. term for regulatory debate and regulatory effort to define what a qualifying employer would be. This was an unusual negotiated rulemaking. It tended to lean less from the operational regulatory side and more into what I would call sort of value driven, that kind of work. The challenging thing about operationalizing something like PSLF and just for folks who may not know, when I was at the US Department of Education, I was on the implementation side at Federal Student Aid, the operational side. So I tend to think about policies not just in their goals, but like how do you actualize it, how do you implement it? And the thing about PSLF is the way to implement it is really through the tax code, C3S, 501, C6S, where they do certain things. Melanie Storey [00:13:37]: That is the way to do it in a broad scale way. Trying to put a layer on this of some sort of value structure based on an administration's goals is really complicated in an implementation way. So I think what you saw in that regulatory process was a honing that if you are working for an organization that has been determined to have violated the law, you may not be eligible for psof. Well, which has violated the law. Like, I mean not to get like start to split the hairs, but that just gets really complicated and I think it's going to take time. So on that arena, while I understand it is setting and maybe a little panicking, I encourage folks to take a breath. These things take a long time. They've gone through the regulatory process, they'll issue a rule. Melanie Storey [00:14:19]: But how it gets operationalized. And whether or not someone would truly lose their eligibility based on an employer's bad act is going to be a much more complicated process than just it's not going to shut the spigot off overnight. The other piece though that I think is up for debate on PSLF is the idea of unlimited forgiveness. And I love to my colleagues in higher education, some of our wounds are self inflicted. And there have been programs who have encouraged significant borrowing based on the fact that a student would see all of their loans forgiven after 10 years. That really wasn't the intention of this program. Significant debt forgiven at the end. It was to encourage, you know, folks to consider public service careers. Melanie Storey [00:14:58]: So I do think there's potentially an appetite to see some limitations on the amount of debt to be forgiven. Now, whether or not that can be done unilaterally without some grandfathering in of students who are already in pslf. Right. There's other debates to be had about that, but I do think on the PSLF front that that's something that is likely to be to reemerge and to be debated. The rest of the OB3 stuff. And as you said, we have a chart. I don't know how many pages long it is. It's at least a couple, maybe three, I don't know. Melanie Storey [00:15:27]: There are a lot of provisions in there and importantly big picture spans programs for short term workforce programs fundamentally changes the borrowing landscape how much students can borrow, particularly in the graduate level. And then the repayment plans which repayment is a source of real pain for borrowers. Too many plans, very confusing. What's eligible for forgiveness, how long? I mean it's, it's NASA strongly recommended and supports a more clarity and streamlining in the repayment program. So important work there. We might have haggled around the edges in terms of where we landed but I think it's important that we have different repayment and then some accountability for institutions. Again, back to this return on investment. But so for student affairs professionals, all of this uncertainty and lack of clarity is really unnerving for students. Melanie Storey [00:16:17]: Finance in college, it's a huge investment of time and money and commitment and no guarantee of outcome. I mean the statistics bear it out. But you know, the job market is tough, right? There's just a lot. And so it impacts you all personally. Student loan forgiveness, repayment, all of that. But also the students on your campus are increasingly experiencing worry, anxiety every semester. Is the bill paid? Can I register for my classes? It's very. And not having certainty. Melanie Storey [00:16:46]: Am I going to be able to borrow enough money for graduate school. Am I going to be eligible for this program that will help me get through that? That level of uncertainty is really disruptive to the learning, to the experience, to all parts of it. And I think a lot of that often comes to student, you know, to student affairs professionals who are, you know, in place to really engage and support students in their post secondary life. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:09]: It's an interesting time as well because we just saw a modification to the FAFSA within the last couple of. I think it was the last year really. 24, 25 was the first year. Melanie Storey [00:17:18]: Yes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:18]: That the FAFSA changed. So we're just seeing kind of fast, intentional but complicated changes to the student loan grant landscape in the United States along with college affordability being part of the conversation, along with a change in administration, et cetera. So if I'm a family looking at federal aid for the first time, maybe I'm a first generation family that's attending college. What is your pro tip for making heads and tails of the situation that people see in front of them? Melanie Storey [00:17:47]: Yeah, so I would say two things. One is if available in your community, if there is a community based organization or someone in your high school or your church or wherever your community may reside that support sort of FAFSA completion and that work, I encourage you to build those relationships. Now they are the folks on the front lines that are really along with financial aid administrators. But you don't tend to really have a relationship with them until you've chosen your school. But they are the ones who are going to be super knowledgeable on kind of how the changes are coming. That might feel like a bridge twofold. So what can you do in the Meantime? Go to StudentAid.gov StudentAid.gov is the front door of the U.S. department of Education's kind of home as it relates to federal student aid. Melanie Storey [00:18:29]: Look up or just Google federal Student Aid estimator. We can drop a link somewhere. But the federal student Aid estimator, it's not a full fafsa, even though the FAFSA is much faster and easier now. And I'm going to put a plug in there, but it's not time. But if you're say a junior, right, A sophomore or junior, you're on the front end of this. Go to the federal student Aid estimator, ask you maybe five, six, seven questions. It's pretty easy. You don't need to bring any paperwork and it'll just give you an estimate of what is called your student aid index. Melanie Storey [00:18:55]: It'll Give you a sense of what your family circumstances might make you eligible for the outcome of that estimator. That SAI is really important because every school that your young person might be considering also is required to have something called a net price calculator. And I'm getting into the weeds, but follow along with me here, right? The net price calculators is an estimate of the types of aid they provide to a family generally like yours, based on the outputstudentaid.gov site. And so use those net prices. Be realistic. If I had one like magic wand I could wave, I was like, please, can we move away from the narrative of elite drinking? Can we move away from the narrative that there's a single school for every individual? You know, like there's a single aspirational school. It really needs to be about fit. It needs to be about academic fit, social fit, financial fit, and students need to be academically, socially and financially ready for post secondary education. Melanie Storey [00:19:53]: So starting to hone in on what that social, academic and financial fit is, one of the things you can do is understand what you might be eligible for generally and then at schools that might be that you might be interested in or your student might be interested in, and then start building your lists, having the conversations, understanding what the overall cost of colleges, tuition, room and board, how far away from home, what is the transportation going to look like, what other options are for housing are there. Right. There's some costs that you can control and some that you have less control over. So if I, and I do advise families at times, you know, who are first generation, first interactions with post secondary education, is to do the research up front, be open in those conversations and be open to all of the types of institutions that might be available to you that really I think there is a lot of words around aspirational schools and it's great to have an aspirational school and if it works out, great. But I want to caution people by being too myopic, that and then not necessarily making smart financial decisions and maybe not getting the right return on their investment because of that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:59]: I think in student affairs we be the very first to support students in their journey to find the right university or college for them. We're big proponents of community college education, of technical college education, and figuring out if the four year university is the right move for a person or if it's going to be one of the privates or if it's going to be a large public. There's different, there's something for everybody at the higher education level. So Long as we're supporting students in the journey they want to find. Melanie Storey [00:21:24]: So yeah, that it really is. That's such a big piece. But I didn't even mention private colleges. But you know, when I talk about price, people always think private colleges are out of reach, but they often have more money to give. Right. Like. So that's why I really want you to. I want people to think broadly about their lists and do the work to see what might be a fit. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:40]: So on the other end of this we have some changes to institutional accountability as it applies to federal financial aid. And I think this is where student affairs plays a big role in supporting students through persistence to degree completion and then ultimately helping them help students set themselves up for success in the job market. But I think these institutional changes also maybe turn the mission of higher education for us. And I think that's a debatable point for some, maybe not for all. Some would say that higher education is to expand critical thinking skills. And for those who have kind of the luxury of time and the privilege of the financial freedom to go to college, it's about learning how to think about and solve problems. For others it's only about job preparedness and earnings capacity. And I think that this, this institutional accountability measure probably pushes us towards the latter because it has introduced some earnings measures for universities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:34]: Would you mind sharing kind of the CliffsNotes version of what this is and how it's going to affect our day to day work? Melanie Storey [00:22:41]: Yeah. So you know, you talk about sort of the critical thinking and you know, I'm a liberal art arts graduate, big fan, see the value but it doesn't, doesn't diminish the importance of. I also needed to get a job when I graduated. Like I don't always see those things in opposition. I do see it as a yes and but it does. I think it is reflected in OB3. And just again back to this value of higher education. It isn't all about earnings and getting a job, but it all has to be a little bit about. Melanie Storey [00:23:07]: There are very few who have the privilege of just going to enjoy the experience and free think and I don't know what happens after that. Like at the end of the day, you know, there is a responsibility there but so OV3 introduces accountability as you mentioned, a new accountability framework that will hold institutions accountable for earnings of their graduates to be higher than those earnings of a student who only has a high school diploma. That's the clip Note the devil is always in the details. Someone who may only have a high school diploma may go into a high skill trade and have high significant income. As student affairs professionals, financial aid professionals know this too. Those first three, four years of earnings are not your strongest earnings directly out of college. Right. I think we have some concerns right around the details of the data. Melanie Storey [00:23:55]: If we're going to be held accountable. And I, and I. Let me just be clear, my members in higher education, we should be held accountable for delivering on the opportunity that we are marketing. The question is how does one measure it? Where does one measure it in the arc of one's life? Very few metrics will be perfect and this is the one that we have now. And so I think what your question and lead up is kind of answering to though is, you know, will it change the, the dynamic of our institutions to be admitting and encouraging students to move into what are more our higher paying careers or you know, kind of early on whether or not that is their, you know, sort of where they want to head? And I think that's a, I think it's an open, it's an open question. I think it will. We're going to have to look at the first few years of this data and see what it kind of looks like. You know, right now we don't, we don't have very good proxies. Melanie Storey [00:24:45]: So it's really hard to get a sense of that. There will be again going back to this negotiative rulemaking, a regulatory process around the accountability metrics later this year and early in 26. Those will be important conversations to help us define how this accountability will be measured and applied. But it is an important and dramatic shift and it's not new though. Just to be clear, there are already something called gainful employment and financial value transparency. VT for those of them know that has been in place under a regulatory structure for some time. And to be clear, it has been challenged and removed and restarted. I think we're on like our fourth round of it. Melanie Storey [00:25:21]: The department has already gotten data, they've collected data and they have data in house that is eagerly awaiting to be reported out around some of this gainful employment and financial value transparency. The thing about OB3 is that now it's in statute, now it's statute is more powerful. It's rooted in statute versus a regulatory effort. And so, and it differs a little bit from gefbt. So our hope is that we can get to a single set of accountability metrics. We don't want to double up the burden on institutions and make it meaningful for policymakers to assess institutions. But maybe more Importantly for students and families to get a sense of the value they might be getting at a particular institution. But it is higher education bristles at the idea of earnings being our only outcome. Melanie Storey [00:26:03]: And that's appropriate, but it is an important outcome. And so I think we need to work on a yes and as opposed to just a no. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:09]: Let's talk about graduate students. There was an elimination of Grad plus loans, which is going to have some deep impacts on anyone earning a master's, doctoral or professional degree. Some of the limits that are put in the Grad plus loan or the grad loans that are still available won't cover the costs of some of these educational experiences. Some people might be in the middle of their experience right now and these changes are going to come in a year. And I know that they have a year to figure out how to finish paying for that particular educational experience. Particularly worried about things like medical school. We see medical school price tags more than a mortgage in some places. And the only way to complete them for some students are through these types of loans. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:49]: So how are we going to get our graduate students to the finish line knowing that these are, these are coming. Melanie Storey [00:26:55]: Yeah. So this was a big. This was. And fast and significant change, largely, as you said, focused on graduate students. On the elimination of Grad Plus. Let me take, let me take your question about those who are currently engaged in their programs right now. There are provisions in the law for grandfathering those who are currently enrolled into the Grad plus program and into the existing loan limits as long as they stay in the program and they don't switch programs or schools. So not ideal. Melanie Storey [00:27:20]: But there is grandfathering. It isn't just, it's not quite the cliff effect next year. This is something that is also being discussed in the negotiated rulemaking about how long this grandfathering will last. Students may take longer to finish their programs. I believe the language in the law is something like, like three years, the end of their program or three years. And so if someone takes four years, are we really kicking them out? Right. I guess so. I think we're trying to understand three full time years. Melanie Storey [00:27:46]: Right. Like there's lots of things we can debate around that. But the grandfathering provisions for those who are currently engaged I hope will provide a softer off brand for those folks. But for students who are just looking to embark on their graduate education, this is a much more daunting kind of reality because the truth is that Grad plus is, is going away. And let me, let me start with a little tough talk here around why I think this happened and why I think Congress acted pretty abruptly here is that there was a lot of frustration when we talk about return on investment, that there were at least a few marquee, particularly master's degree programs that were charging significant six figure tuitions that realistically were not going to have of payoff that one would expect from that. Now students make choices. Students make choices of their programs. They make choices. Melanie Storey [00:28:36]: You know, they are, they, they have agency in these decisions. Right. So I don't, I don't, you know, want to dismiss that, but I think certain members of Congress and key members of the committee saw the combination of these high tuitions, limited return on investment and the combination again back to PSLF and this expectation of hundreds of thousands of dollars being, being forgiven. And they were like this was not the intention of these, this was not. And they saw it as being, they saw it as institutions, not all institutions, but some institutions being bad actors in terms of taking advantage of the programs. I say that just because I want, I think it's important, you know, we can hand wring and teach Nash like why would they do this? And I sometimes feel like we lose clarity that we're not always all perfect actors like and sometimes we have to, but we do have to operate as a community and sometimes some of members of our community don't always operate as we might wish. So I say that, you know, I do think that is at least part of what seeded where we are. But what do we do now? I can tell you that NASA and our institutions are working hard to figure out how we might fill the gap. Melanie Storey [00:29:41]: Whether it is an institutional funds, state funded loan programs, private loan programs with Advantage Advanced, you know, kind of safety nets and benefits as we can, particularly to help lower income students access capital to pursue graduate degrees. Right. We don't want to close that much. Like we believe in need based aid and the opportunity to access higher education for all students who desire it, regardless of their income. This can extend into graduate programs as well. And I think, you know, that is what we are currently focusing on. What can we get in place quickly that is supportive and student focused in order to help students pursue post secondary education that's on the grad plus elimination. It's gotta be just a pure. Melanie Storey [00:30:23]: What other vehicles can we find? What other capital vehicles can you support that are student friendly to do that? On the loan limit piece we're currently negotiating with the department, the negotiations are around what constitutes a professional degree which is eligible for higher loan limits versus a graduate degree. There's A lot of rain going around. And I think that's going to be an important conversation to help define what kind of capital is available. But I'll be honest, like, I think Congress is hoping that it puts downward pressure on the tuitions that are being charged on these programs. I don't know if that's a realistic hope in this world, but I do think they are hoping that institutions get creative in ways, in terms of how we finance and develop and design these programs to make them more financially accessible to students. And so I think, I think we have an opportunity and an obligation as institutions to try to think creatively around that as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:11]: Let's talk about Pell. Pell has a new program called Workforce Pell, which is something that I'm wholly unfamiliar with. So I'll just be very honest about that. My understanding is that I believe you have to. It's kind of like work study adjacent ish. For Pell eligible students. Is that incorrect? Melanie Storey [00:31:28]: So Pell grants, generally you have to be enrolled in a program that is, you know, I think I gotta remember like 15 weeks, right? Or like, you know, it has a le associated with it, which really made it. It kind of was initially something that differed, made Pell different than some of the Department of Labor programs for shorter kind of certificate, very vocationally focused programs. The expansion of Pell Grant eligibility to short workforce programs plus Workforce Pell are, is making students who are enrolled in these kind of vocationally focused certificate, 6 to 8, 6 to 10 week programs eligible for Pell Grants. And to be clear, like a lot of our community colleges, a lot of our vocationally focused for profit institutions offer great vocationally focused programs that are very short in length, these are great for retraining, and then someone can go into the workforce with the certificate. They historically have not been eligible for Pell. So this is quite a bipartisan effort to expand eligibility to Pell Grant programs to Pell grant dollars for more of these programs. And so the tricky part is we want to make sure these are high quality programs, right? Like much else, when we are expending federal dollars, we want to be good stewards of those dollars. So part of the implementation of Workforce Pell is identifying programs and certifying programs as eligible. Melanie Storey [00:32:46]: So institutions will have to go through a process to demonstrate the value of the program. It needs to have been in place for a number of years. There's, there's a few things in the law around that, but so, but it really just an expansion of eligibility of Pell to these more vocationally Shorter term programs. So again, a different pathway of opportunity for students to leverage Higher Education act funds towards career goals. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:11]: Thank you for clarifying that. So clearly I had completely misunderstood its original intention, but this is good stuff. Melanie Storey [00:33:16]: I mean, you're not deep. There's no need for you to be deep in the weeds on that. It really is. It's a Pell Grant. It's just now Pell Grant for a different set of programs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:24]: Is there anything else in OB3 that student affairs professionals could benefit from knowing that maybe we're not paying close attention to or maybe it's like a tiny technical detail or something that. That might have been. So I have my doctor's in public policy. And so I always think about like, what is the, the small thing that's one sentence long that actually completely changes the meaning of a thing? Because we all know those are in there. Melanie Storey [00:33:46]: Yeah, boy, you're not kidding. I mean, you've covered a lot of it. But I'll tell you, like one technical detail we are watching pretty closely. And it is almost like a sentence. And this, I'll explain what it's called. Loan proration. So what this means is, is that your loan eligibility will be prorated by the number of credits that you are enrolled. So in order to be eligible for the full loan amount, you would be enrolled in 9 to 12 credits. Melanie Storey [00:34:11]: Right. But as you drop down in credits, your loan eligibility will diminish in a prorated fashion. So that sounds, I mean, but that has not been the way the programs have operated. If you're eligible for a loan, you're eligible for a loan. So proration is kind of a like, wait, what? Because not many graduate students are. Particularly for graduate students who we know are already getting hit on grad plus and other things often are only enrolled in 6 credits, 8, 9 credits. So what will that mean for their loan eligibility? So that holistically is something we're watching. That's in the law. Melanie Storey [00:34:42]: That's going to happen. But what we're really watching is how will they implement it? So if I'm a student and I'm enrolled in 12 credits and then life happens, because life. And I'm like, oh gosh, I'm going to drop that class or I'm going to drop two classes and take this other. So now Mulane rolls for seven credits, that's going to. Now we're going to have to ask you to hand back some of your loan funds. If we've already. So when, when does that proration happen? Student affairs and financial Aid Administrators hate to go back to students and say, oh, we gave you money, now we have to take it back. Like that's the worst case scenario. Melanie Storey [00:35:13]: Right. That's terrible. Predictability and transparency and clarity are so clutch for planning. So communicating to students that like, you're eligible for this amount of borrowing based on your current course selections, your enrollment, and again, life happens. So it's not in any way, but just understand there's new consequences to making, having to make changes. And that is this like tiny little thing that I am. I just is going to catch a lot of students off guard next fall. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:43]: One of my foci in student affairs has been fundamental needs. Security. So food security, housing security. Melanie Storey [00:35:48]: Yes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:48]: And my mind immediately went to, well, that money's probably already spent on rent and food. And if we're, if we're required by the government to claw it back from a student, that's going to create a housing crisis. I can already kind of hear it coming. So that's a really important nugget. Melanie Storey [00:36:04]: So communicating. And this can happen with your folks. With my folks, we will do, we will shout this from the rooftops. It'll be on every financial aid letter you get, every communication. But you know, students are busy, no shade on them. Right. Like these things can kind of come and go. But just understand this is a significant change that can really upend, as you said, you know, very fundamental needs and kind of stuff that we're spending a lot of time and negotiating. Melanie Storey [00:36:31]: At what point is it locked in? Is it at certification disbursement? Right, because the loan, you know, you sort of, you know, there's a progression that happens with loans awarding, you know, and so we are trying to make sure that we minimize the impact of this on students as much as possible. But that is. Yeah, that's the sneaky. That's the sneaky1 in OB3 for us, I think. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:53]: Speaking of this particular area, our season's theme is on the value of Student affairs. And so I'm going to ask you our three themed questions. The first, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? Melanie Storey [00:37:07]: I feel like student affairs humanizes higher education. Student affairs professionals are the human face and warmth of what can feel like a very opaque and intimidating industry at times, particularly for our most vulnerable populations. And so I am a first generation student, as I mentioned, my son is not. And it was still amazing to me the things that he didn't understand and didn't know despite I have a career in some of this work and So I just saw how much, much work and effort the professionals at his institution did to bring clarity and warmth and humanization to what can feel really overwhelming for students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:46]: Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? And maybe this is from the financial side of the house, given that's where you've been centered. Melanie Storey [00:37:55]: Yeah. So I think in many ways, I think student affairs professionals are also like the navigators of higher education for students. Right. Like. Like when you don't know what an office hour is. Right. Like, is it office hour when you don't bother the faculty? Oh, no, no. Office hours are when you do bother the faculty, you know, and bother is not the right word there, of course, but. Melanie Storey [00:38:16]: And so I have heard time and time again, time and again, you know, students who feel overwhelmed. Money is a very sensitive topic for families. For students, it feels very vulnerable. You talk about food and housing insecurity. These are. Are incredibly emotional spaces, but essential, essential to the journey of higher education that they, you know, that they have stable and that they see. And I. And so for me, I have seen and witnessed time and time again student affairs professionals connecting students with the financial aid professionals who can feel very much like no people sometimes because they are the ones, you know, they're the gatekeepers to dollars. Melanie Storey [00:38:56]: And so they, I think, unnecessarily can have a reputation as not being as warm, but they are fully committed to trying to solve the financial financial issues. And I think student affairs and financial aid working together are an incredibly powerful duo. And I've seen countless examples of helping, saying like, your father lost their job, your mother has had a traumatic medical issue. We can get you more aid. Like, we can change things. Like. And it just. That isn't in the mindset of students. Melanie Storey [00:39:25]: And so pairing that humanization over to the financial side, I think is incredible. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:29]: I always love to think of our financial aid partners as the people that help us try to get to. Yes. Melanie Storey [00:39:33]: And creatively, that's where they want to be. That's where they want to be. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:38]: So especially if you're listening and you work in maybe student care, case management, or in any sort of advising role, if you haven't met your financial aid partners, they're a great resource to help us try to figure out how do we find aid without necessarily negatively impacting a student's future ability to borrow or what the impact of maybe like an emergency loan will have on that student, that type of thing. It's good stuff. And then our third question is what do you think Student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? Melanie Storey [00:40:09]: I think we all need to be better at being strategic leaders. It's really hard and I feel this way for my members too. We're day to day dealing with individual students, with cases, with compliance, with, with. I mean, it's, the workload is extraordinary. But we are essential to the smooth functioning and success of students on our campuses. And so I think it is incredibly important that our student affairs leaders and our financial aid leadership be at the table with our presidents and chancellors solving the problems, the big problems, and bringing our voice to what we can bring to those problems. What solutions can we offer, what creative endeavors can we collaborate on? I feel like oftentimes the C suite is the chancellors, the business officers, maybe admissions and enrollment. But there's just incredibly important voices coming from student affairs and from financial aid that I want at the table. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:58]: Before we transition into our commercial break, I would love to hear from you on if you have any tips on, I suppose, demystifying the inner workings of the U.S. department of Education, because I feel like all of us in Student affairs have interacted with elements of what the department has put out at some point. Some of us have participated in negotiated rulemaking. Typically that's been around Title IX for most of us or other areas like that. So is there anything that you can say that will help humanize a bit of this thing that is the department? Melanie Storey [00:41:26]: Yeah, you know, I mean, it's, this is a particularly tough time for that because generally, historically what I would have said is, is to really build relationships with the folks in your regional offices because those are the folks that have direct access into the Washington, D.C. based folks, but have a closer relationship with the institutions. Unfortunately, with the reduction in staffing at the Department of Education, a lot of those regional offices were gutted. So that is a little bit harder. If I have a tidbit, I don't have a really very good one right now. It is a pretty tough time. It is really about person and relationships. But the tidbit I might have is this. Melanie Storey [00:42:00]: If you are calling the call centers, if you're trying to get an answer to a question and lagging, you're not getting it or it doesn't feel right. Those call centers are generally staffed by contract contractors. These are hard working, well meaning folks, but they're also racing to catch up with what is happening at the department. The real, the real answers are often found in escalations and escalations mean, it gets to someone who is a U.S. department of Education employee who's going to have to look at it and go into the systems or do whatever they need to do. Understand it. And so while it takes more effort and more lift, it is a little bit exhausting. On behalf of your folks and mine, if it doesn't feel right and you're not getting an answer, ask for escalation. Melanie Storey [00:42:39]: Ask for the name of someone with an ed.gov email. That's, that's the way to get an answer and be persistent. And the nuclear option, if it's preventing students from enrolling, if students can't get access to funds, if it, if it is significantly impacting their journey to the point where they're going to have to drop out, the nuclear option is to call your member of Congress or have the student reach out to the member of Congress. And I don't say that with any joy because that is really hard on my former colleagues at the department to get these inquiries. But sometimes when a student's future is at risk, it's the only option. And I ask that you do it judiciously and only when a student's future is truly at risk. But it is a way to get what you need. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:19]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Thanks, Jill. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:26]: So excited to be back in the NASPA world. And there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. NASPA recently signed a letter with 21 higher education associations to congressional leaders urging Congress to restore FY 2025 funding for minority serving institutions, MSIs that was terminated by the Department of Education and to maintain and expand support for HBCUs, TCUs, and MSIs in 2026. Citing the role these institutions play in serving students with the greatest financial need. This letter, as well as many of the other most pressing policy and advocacy updates states are housed on the policy and advocacy website. On the NASPA website. If you have not had an opportunity to be able to explore the policy and advocacy website, I highly encourage you to do so. With everything that is happening today and all the changes that are happening seemingly daily, it's important to stay on top of what is happening not only at the federal level, but in your state. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:29]: And NASPA is doing everything that they can to be able to track things that are happening both at the federal and at the state level that are impacting our institutions. I highly encourage you to spend some time there. Come back on a regular basis and see what the updates are, and you'll probably see some changes along the way as well in regards to new things that are coming and things that you may want to explore as well. On the NASPA website, some of you may in the past have taken a look at and identified that we have a great bookstore with books that have been written for NASPA itself, and one of those books is Careers in Student Affairs, a holistic guide to professional development in Higher education. This book was written a while back, back in 2017, but the information that is in it is as pertinent today as it was when it was written, and it provides a comprehensive look at being a higher education administrator, integrating perspectives from both research and practical applications. It's a reader friendly book addressing contemporary issues in higher education that are not typically covered in a graduate curriculum, but that employers expect student affairs professionals to be prepared for from their first position and beyond. The book is written for both new professionals and those transitioning to further levels of leadership, so it provides a cross section of topics that apply to various levels of experience. The book is filled with information and advice to assist you in your developing plans for career longevity and success. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:46:06]: Each chapter includes a question for reflection to help readers develop a career plan. It's organized into two parts. The first part focuses on professional performance and explores issues such as trends and contemporary challenges in higher education, developing professionalism and support networks and ways to navigate important issues such as organizational cultures, politics, conflicts and ethics and the second part looks at professional development with chapters that delve into defining personal and professional success, advancing a career in student affairs, becoming an effective supervisor, transitioning to faculty roles, and giving back to the profession. This is an amazing book and if you haven't had an opportunity to read it it I highly encourage you to take some time to explore it and see all of the amazing things that Peggy Holweis and Kelly Peck Parrott put together as they were putting this book out into the world. And I think you will find that it is an amazing book that can follow you throughout your career. You can find out more by going onto the NASPA website, going under Research and Publications to the bookstore. The early registration for both the 2026 NASPA Institute for New AVPs as well as the 2026 NASPA AVP Symposium are coming up on December 7, 2025. Both of these institutes are amazing learning opportunities for those that are either new to being an AVP or those that are currently AVPs and want to be able to learn and grow from others that are in similar roles as mentioned, the NASPA Institute for New AVPS is a foundational three day learning and networking experience designed to support and develop AVPs in their unique and challenging roles on campus. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:48:00]: It's appropriate for AVPs and other senior level number twos who report to the highest ranking Student affairs officer who have been serving in their first AVP or number two position for no longer than two years. The 2026 NASPA AVP Symposium is a unique and innovative three day program designed to support and develop AVPs and other number twos in their unique campus leadership roles. Leveraging the vast experience and knowledge of sitting AVPs, the symposium will provide high level content through a variety of participants engagement oriented session types. The professional development offering is limited to AVPs and other number twos who report to the highest ranking Student affairs officer on campus and have substantial responsibility for divisional functions. Additionally, VPSAs and the equivalent who are presenting during the symposium may also register at the discounted rate and attend the Institute for New AVPS is happening January 22nd to 24th in Denver, Colorado and the symposium is happening January 24th to 26 in Denver, Colorado. This offers opportunities for an individual to attend both or only attend one of the three day sessions every week. We're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association, so we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the Association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:45]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back each week. We're hoping that that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the Association. Because through doing that all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:39]: Chris, thank you. As Always for another informative week of NASPA World. We always love learning what's going on in and around naspa. And Melannie, we've reached our lightning round all about you. We have seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:50:54]: Ready to go? Melanie Storey [00:50:55]: Okay, let's go. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:56]: All right, question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Melanie Storey [00:51:01]: Oh, that's Easy, Girl on Fire. I did that this summer. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:03]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Melanie Storey [00:51:07]: Ooh, when I was 5 years old? Probably like a librarian. I was a real, like, book nerd when I was little. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:13]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Melanie Storey [00:51:16]: Ooh, my most, my most influential professional mentor is probably Becky Timmons, who was a great friend and mentor when I worked serving college and university president. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:27]: Number four, your essential higher education read. Melanie Storey [00:51:30]: Inside Higher Ed, the Cron, and now occasionally, Politico every day. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:34]: Number five, the best TV show you've. Melanie Storey [00:51:36]: Been binging lately, Ted Lasso. I just watched it a second time through. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:39]: They're filming right near where I live at the moment. Melanie Storey [00:51:41]: I love that, you know, Ted Lasso is fundamentally optimistic in the face of lots of adversity, and I, I, I resonate with that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:48]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Melanie Storey [00:51:52]: Smartless, I find funny and engaging. Kind of a mindless entertainment for me. And it's smart. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:58]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Melanie Storey [00:52:02]: Well, I will say I would like to. I'll always give a shout out to my NASA, to my NASA team. As I said, I'm just five months in to this incredible opportunity. And whenever you come into a new organization, especially after they had a long serving, beloved leader, change is hard and they have been amazing. So Beth Maglione and all the other folks at NASA have really been, have fast become great colleagues, but also friends, and I appreciate that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:28]: I have deep respect for all the work that you all are doing, and I'm very grateful that you were willing to share your subject matter and expertise with the NASPA community. If NASPA members would like to join you or learn more about nasfa, how can they find you and your team? Melanie Storey [00:52:42]: Yeah, so our website, of course, is NASFA. N a s n faa.org if they want to reach me directly, you're welcome to email me. I'm happy to receive emails. And that is story with an E. So S T O R e m for melanie.org and so welcome all feedback and input. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:02]: Melanie, thank you so very much for sharing your voice with us today. Melanie Storey [00:53:05]: Thanks Jill. I appreciate it. Have fun. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:11]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@savoicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on as Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:41]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.  

10/30/25 • 54:09

Assessment isn't just numbers—it's a growth mindset. In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, Knowledge Community co-chairs Dr. Dana Weintraub (Rutgers University - New Brunswick) and Dr. Scott Radimer (William & Mary) share their perspectives with Dr. Jill Creighton on the vital importance of assessment, evaluation, and research in higher education, sparking conversations that will resonate with both experienced professionals and those newer to the field. A key theme emerges early: assessment is not an "add-on" or a separate chore—it's a tool that empowers student affairs professionals to make evidence-based decisions, improve the student experience, and honor the promise institutions make to help their students thrive and succeed. As Dr. Radimer puts it, "Assessment work is really just an extension of that promise…we're failing to keep our promises if we're not doing that." Both leaders emphasize that assessment helps colleges move from "just vibes" to actionable data, allowing for advocacy, program improvements, and strategic change. Dr. Weintraub offers practical advice for making assessment less intimidating, urging colleagues to see how data-driven decision-making fits into everyday life: checking the weather app before dressing for work, or setting personal fitness goals, both reflect continuous assessment cycles. She insists, "It's about growth mindset. It's equipping us with the information so we know how it helps us make decisions so much easier." For those wary of statistics, Dr. Radimer reassures listeners: effective assessment relies on relationships, collaboration, and critical inquiry—not just crunching numbers. "Usually in student affairs, it's not that we're doing bad things…it's that we have so many things on our plate that sometimes the good gets in the way of the great." His advice: intentional planning and building assessment into the program design from the start makes it less stressful and more impactful. The episode also demystifies involvement in NASPA's Assessment, Evaluation, and Research Knowledge Community (AERKC). Both co-chairs are passionate about the value of networking, professional development, and "work wellness" that the KC offers, encouraging anyone with even a passing interest in assessment to "just show up" and experience the supportive community firsthand. Whether you're a seasoned assessment lead or a curious student affairs practitioner, there's something for everyone in this episode. Tune in to hear practical wisdom, relatable analogies, and uplifting encouragement from two experts committed to making data work for students—and their advocates. Ready to turn assessment anxiety into actionable insight? Listen to the full episode and discover how you can be part of a thriving, supportive community committed to student success. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices, we are continuing our journey with getting to know our Knowledge Community leaders with the AERC or the Assessment, Evaluation and Research knowledge community. Our two guests are co chairs Dana Weintraub, PhD and Scott Rademer, PhD. Dr. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:42]: Weintraub is the Assistant Vice Chancellor for Strategy, Assessment and Planning in Student affairs at Rutgers University New Brunswick and an Associate member of the Faculty at the Graduate School of Education. Since joining Rutgers in 2016, she's led division wide efforts in strategic planning, assessment, communication and development advancing student success through data informed decision making. Dana serves as the Primary Liaison to the Office of Institutional Research and Decision Support and collaborates closely with Senior leadership to shape and implement strategic priorities. She chairs the Student Affairs Assessment Learning Committee and leads training initiatives Taking that sentence over Chris, she chairs the Student Affairs Assessment Learning Committee and leads training initiatives on research and data strategy. Her scholarship, which explores topics like student leadership, gender equity in STEM and civic engagement, has been featured in academic journals and global conferences conferences. Outside of work, Dana is a proud mom of two, a marathon runner, dancer and passionate board game enthusiast. Always ready for a strategic challenge whether at the office or around the game table. She holds a Ph.D. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:41]: in higher education and organizational change from UCLA, a master's from Indiana University in Bloomington, and a BA from Ithaca College. Dr. Radimer is the Assistant Dean for Assessment, Accreditation and Accountability for the School of Education at William Mary. Prior to working at William Mary, Scott was the Director of Assessment and Planning at the University of Houston for the Division of Student Affairs. He has over 9 years professional experience in assessment, 22 years working in higher education, and serves as the co Chair for NASPA's Assessment, Evaluation and Research Knowledge Community. He's published and given presentations on topics such as One More Time on that. He has published and given presentations on topics such as assessment, men and masculinities and urban serving institutions. Scott earned his Ph.D. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:22]: in higher education from Boston College and his Master of Science in Higher Education from Florida State University and his Bachelor of Arts degree in Political Science from the University of Vermont. Welcome to SA Voices. Dana hello hello and hello Scott. Scott Radimer [00:02:37]: Hello. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:37]: We are thrilled to have you on the episode today to talk about the NASPA Assessment Knowledge Community, aerc. And I'll let you all define that a little bit more as we get into the conversation. A lot to talk about in the assessment world right now, but as we jump into our topic, we still love to get to know you first. So, Dana, let's start with you. How did you get to your current seat at Rutgers? Dana Weintraub [00:02:58]: Thank you. Really wonderful to be here. Dr. Creighton, thank you for having Scott and I on, on the podcast. So I am actually starting my 10th year at Rutgers New Brunswick, which is, it's been amazing to have just completed nine full years. So I actually, I grew up in South Jersey and the funny thing which my parents actually like to tease me about is when it came to me to apply to colleges, I really wanted nothing, to be in my home state. I wanted to travel as far as possible, but that flipped. Prior to Rutgers, I spent 13 years working and going to school at UCLA. Dana Weintraub [00:03:36]: It was an amazing experience, very fulfilling experiences. And when I was graduating from the PhD program at UCLA and it was time to job search, job opportunity came up at Rutgers New Brunswick and it was, it was just, it was the perfect job on paper. It was an opportunity to create a student affairs assessment unit. And so it was going to provide me the opportunity to apply everything I was learning in my doctoral program and actually really returned to what I love most, and that's student affairs, but doing it through a research and an assessment lens. So that's how I got to Rutgers New Brunswick. And over the past nine years I've been very fortunate to gain new experiences and opportunities. And I just, I really love being at a large public research university, really love and appreciate my student affairs colleagues and campus partners and how much Rutgers really does center and prioritize and value the need for evidence in making decisions and using evidence based research to improve the student experience. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:41]: I always love it when someone is able to find a role that fits both of their passions or multiple passions and comes together to be something that you can enjoy doing every day. I'm glad you were able to find that. Dana Weintraub [00:04:51]: Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:52]: And Scott, how about you? How did you get to your current seat at William and Mary? Scott Radimer [00:04:55]: Yeah, so I'm originally from Vermont, grew up in Vermont and attended the University of Vermont for undergrad. I was one of those stereotypical student affairs college students in that I was involved in everything as an undergrad. And so I kept on interacting with all the master's students in the HISA program at the University of Vermont and I thought they were pretty cool people and that's how I got exposed to student affairs as a career. When I was a senior in college, I. I thought I wanted to go to law school and be a lawyer. And then I quickly realized I didn't want to do that. So it took me a little bit of time to figure out what I wanted to do after college. And I ultimately decided that I was going to go into student affairs because if I didn't like it, I'd be working at a university, I could get a different degree and I could move. Scott Radimer [00:05:50]: So that seemed less scary than my other kind of big idea was I might get a PhD in political science, which was my undergraduate degree. And that at the time seemed too intimidating to me. So I went into student affairs. I ended up Florida State University for my master's degree, which, coming from Vermont, I felt like that was my study abroad experience that I never had. It was a great experience, definitely opened my eyes to a lot of things that I had assumed everybody thought or did and was not the case. Worked in assistantship, in academic advising, and then moved back up north. Got my first job working in residential life at Vassar College. Worked there for three years, just in time for the 2008 recession to send me job searching again. Scott Radimer [00:06:36]: Ended up at Bentley University working in res life for three years. Decided that I had spent enough time working in residential life and being on call all the time. And so I ended up making the transition to being a full time graduate student again as a PhD student at Boston College in their Higher Edition program. Found that I liked research a whole lot more than I had anticipated when I went in. And so when I graduated, I ended up getting a job doing student affairs assessment, which felt like a kind of perfect marriage of my prior experience and skills that I developed at bc. And so I became the Director of Research, Assessment and Planning at the University of Memphis. Memphis, Tennessee, was there for three years until they got rid of their division of Student Affairs. And so I ended up doing a similar position at the University of Houston, which is where I was for six years until just very recently. Scott Radimer [00:07:43]: And then I actually just had my first job transitioning out of student affairs, Although I'm still involved with NASPA and the aerkc William and Mary with the School of Education, doing assessment and accreditation work. So it's kind of an extension continuation of my work in assessment. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:00]: So assessment in student affairs, I think has been historically a bit of a hill to climb for many of us where we find folks like yourselves who are very passionate about the way that we assess and Evaluate our work and we're able to tell stories through the data. But then others who are like, oh my gosh, assessment. I can't believe I'm still. My brain can't get around it. And I think we have that binary to a degree in the profession. So I'm wondering if you can tell us what you love about the assessment, evaluation and research process for our profession. Scott Radimer [00:08:30]: Yeah. So my number one Cliftons strength is strategic. Right. I'm always looking at everything as what's the best way to get from A to B for that? How can we achieve the outcome? So I've always been very focused on how can we improve things, what makes the most sense, what's the most efficient, what has the best return. I feel like colleges make promises to students that if you enroll here, we are going to help you succeed and we are going to get you to your degree. And so I think that assessment work is really just an extension of that promise and that we're failing to keep our promises if we're not doing that. So we're saying we're going to do our best to help you succeed. As long as you, the student, do your part, that you do your work, that you study, and that you're a good citizen of the community, then we are going to help you succeed. Scott Radimer [00:09:27]: And so the thing that really motivates me about assessment work and why I think it's so important and why people should view it as integral to their job, not something else that gets in the way of them doing their job is that it helps you be more efficient. It helps, you know, if what you're doing is working. It helps you tell other people why they should be involved with your programs or services, why they should support them, why they should donate money to them, is you need to have more than just vibes, right? It's like, here's some evidence. Don't just take my word for it. Here's the feedback from the students, here's their grades, here's these outcomes for that. So I view it as a real extension of the promise that we, we make, that we're keeping our word, that we're going to do our part if they do their part. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:14]: I feel like you just encapsulated something really important for student affairs, Scott, which is like, our whole careers, all of us have been like, student affairs is more than just vibes. But we've been saying it differently in a lot of different ways. So thank you for that nugget. Dana Weintraub [00:10:26]: So I appreciate Scott's response because I very much See that, make a commitment to students when they offer students admission to the university. And I see that colleges and universities, it's our responsibility to provide all of the support that students need to thrive and graduate, ideally within four to six years. And assessment allows us to be able to provide. It provides us with the information that we need to be able to know what supports are needed to ensure that students are going to thrive and graduate. And what I appreciate so much about assessment is it's about growth mindset. It's also about just providing. It's equipping us with the information so we know how it helps us make decisions so much easier. And some of the things that I really like to, to kind of like help my colleagues see that they're actually doing assessment all the time. Dana Weintraub [00:11:26]: They just don't call it that. So my easy ways that I, you know, start open up a presentation is I'll ask my colleagues, how did you determine what you're wearing to work today? You know, people don't just open up their closet and say, oh, I'm going to wear this. You check a weather app to make sure that your clothing is weather appropriate. You also check your calendar to see what do I have today, who am I meeting with? How should I dress to present myself in accordance with those meetings? Well, that's assessment, your weather app, your calendar. It's providing you with data and information to help you make the decision, what am I going to wear? And so, and that's really, and I think too often we get so concerned about if we collect data, what happens if it's negative, what happens if we're told something that we don't want to hear? Well, isn't it better to hear it? Isn't it better to find out that the program that you're planning may not have resonated with students the way that you hoped? Isn't it better to have that information so that you can make tweaks and make improvements? So I just really love assessment. I think it's really, it's about growth mindset, it's about how do we improve. And it's providing us with the information that we need to really best engage, best align, best support and best do what we are so passionate about doing in our work. One more final thing is I think too often in student affairs, I grew up in student affairs, where it was a matter of student affairs is co curricular, extracurricular. Dana Weintraub [00:12:54]: No, no more of that. We are an integral part of the student experience. And I like to say that students will not even show up to the classroom unless they receive the nourishment they need in the dining halls, the conversations and the relationships that form in the dining halls and the residence halls, unless they have really proper care, they're not even showing up to the classroom, let alone thriving. And so student affairs really needs to believe in the value and the purpose that we bring to the academic experience. Experience and we are essential to student learning. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:27]: Dana, I feel like you're really good at making assessment more approachable or less terrifying for people who are a little bit scared of it. Can you give some pro tips or advice to people that are listening, that are going, oh my gosh, assessment makes my heart sad versus people who are like, assessment brings joy to my life because I think we're all out there. But I'm just trying to reflect on all of my experiences across my career in student affairs and knowing that for a good chunk of it, I was in the camp of going, oh, this is a bit scary. Dana Weintraub [00:13:54]: Yeah, absolutely. I think what I like to do is I like to try to make assessment really relatable. And so I know for me, I happen to be someone who I really love setting goals related to fitness. So as an adult, I came into marathon running. And when I run a marathon, I'm following a 16 week plan. And for me it's very relatable to relate the assessment cycle to that 16 week plan. You set a goal, it's a nice, clear, specific goal. You pose a question on what information do you need to be able to achieve that goal and that outcome? What data do I need and how do I get that data? Is it data that is already available, like through student admissions applications or through event check ins? So is it data that I don't even have to collect, it's already it exists. Dana Weintraub [00:14:46]: Or is it data that I have to collect in some way and gather? What are the relationships with people that I need to be able to help gather the information that I need to answer my assessment question? What are the methods that best align with answering that question and best helping me to interpret the data that I either had that exists or that I collected? And then what do I do with the information that I gathered? What do I do with the interpretations and how do I develop recommendations that are actionable? And then the beauty of assessment is the cycle continues. And so what I say, because I think too often people get stuck in two aspects of assessment. One, getting stuck in the limitations, where all assessment processes have limitations. And so the beauty of it, of assessment being continuous, is you can Think of it as I can improve on these limitations the next go around. The other piece that I often hear is there's this myth that you have to be this mathematician. But really, actually the hard part about assessment is not the analysis. And anyway, besides the fact, quantitative assessment or quantitative research, it's about telling stories from the numbers. So assessment, really, essentially, it's converting numbers into stories and how to make meaning with words if you're doing qualitative. Dana Weintraub [00:16:07]: But what I say is the core of assessment. It's about relationship. The reality is we have a lot of programs that help us analyze both quantitative, qualitative and mixed methods, research and data. But what we really need to do is it's the relationships that help us identify what aspects of student learning are we interested in measuring? How do we engage with students to really empathize, hear, narrate, form, trust with our students and their experiences? How do we develop relationships with colleagues who have information and data that we really could use to be able to help improve the student experience and our environments? So really, the key is it's about relationships. And so what I hope is that it's, you know, helping to make things more accessible, whether relating it to a passion of my colleague or relating it to, like, something we do on a daily basis that we all know that we're really good at something else. I do actually, in the class I teach is I have them thinking about sorting laundry and relating qualitative coding to laundry, where it's when you think about, you have your laundry basket and what's your method of folding and sorting your clothes? And that's very similar to how I approach qualitative coding. So I do try to make assessment very accessible and very practical ways so that it becomes. It's fun and interesting. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:34]: I'll give a shout out to my qualitative methods professor, Dr. Mark Smith. He brought to class on one of our first days of coding exercises, like a giant bag of crafting beads and just dumped them on everybody's table and said sort, which was a wonderful way of kind of thinking about coding. And everyone had a different method that kind of showed up. So thank you, Dr. Smith. He's now living his best life as a dean in the South. So, Scott, same question for you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:58]: What are you doing at your institution to make assessment more accessible and less scary for people who maybe don't interact with it as much or in the. In the same headspace that you do? Scott Radimer [00:18:07]: Yeah. So I think the most important part is that I think we need to view our work as More of a science and less of an art, especially in student affairs. I think there can be this tendency to view this as it's a skill that you have or you don't have, that some people are just good at it and other people are not, as opposed to something that you can improve on, that there are different ways to handle it. And I think that's one of the troubles that we get into for people who have been in the field for a really long time is that that we're used to doing things a certain way. It's worked, it's been really successful. And so we keep doing it for 20 or 30 years. And some of those things stay the same, and they're great traditions, and it really makes the college experience. But for other things, they're very different. Scott Radimer [00:19:01]: If I think back to what the world looked like when I was in college, it's a very different place than it is today. And the students are very different, and the world is very different. And so the kinds of programming that made sense in that world doesn't necessarily make sense or is interesting for this world. And so we always just need to check, like, is this what people need? Is this what is useful to our students, but not feeling like it's hopeless or that you just have to figure it out, that there are ways that we can determine what is working and what's not working and how it can help. So to Dana's point, I like to talk to people that are doing assessment to remind them that they are always doing assessments that they're judging. Like, how is this conversation going? Is this going well? Is this not going well? Is this event going well for students? Or is this application process working? Right. We're always making judgments about things. So assessment is just a way of checking our biases, the things that we don't realize that we're doing. Scott Radimer [00:20:07]: Because our informal assessments make up a statistic. I feel like they're probably right 80%, 90% of the time, maybe even 95% of the time. But there is this percentage of the time where we're wrong that it's our biases, it's our assumptions about things. And so, you know, some people are really energized by interpersonal conversations. And so you're trying to have this big event and reach a lot of students. And maybe a lot of students didn't show up, up, or they came, but they didn't have a very good experience. But you had a really moving, engaging conversation with a student in person. So you're feeling really energized about this. Scott Radimer [00:20:47]: And you think this was really great because this is what gives me energy. And I got energy from this event. And so that must be the case for everybody else who attended it. But it's not. Or you're really into this tradition because this event was your alma mater and you did this and now they're doing this. But that doesn't necessarily mean that people are having that same experience coming away from this. And so you want to be intentional about how you're collecting information and checking the results to confirm like, was my impression correct? And most of the time you're going to find it's correct. And it may just be a degree of magnitude that like, oh, this was good, but this event was, this other event was great. Scott Radimer [00:21:28]: That it had a much bigger impact that, you know, this, this very intensive, time consuming process that required a lot of people hours to do, moved retention rate 1% for students. But this other thing that we did that was maybe more scalable, increased it by 5 or 10%. And so usually find in student affairs and the work that we do, it's not that we are doing bad things, it's this we have so many things on our plate that we don't want to let go. That kind of the good things get in the way of the opportunities to do great things or really impactful things. So I try and talk to people about systems. How do we know what we, we think is going on? How do we know that? Do we have data to support that? A lot of work that can feel overwhelming sometimes is just that there's so much that we have to do that takes up so much time that people don't feel like they have the energy for things and that it really becomes a lot less overwhelming, I think when you just plan on the front end. And so a lot of the work that I do is asking people to record things on the front end or tell me what you're going to do or what you just did. And maybe in the moment that doesn't feel super awesome because you've got 11 other things on your to do list today. Scott Radimer [00:22:43]: But when you do it on the front end, when you're thinking about what your goals are, like Dana's example, if you're looking at what you're going to wear for work that day, if you're looking at your calendar, you're going to be in a lot better position than if you're just like, okay, what's clean? And here we go for that, that that might not work out so well. For you. So if you can take the time to think in advance about what you want to do, a lot of it just gets built right in that you made sure to collect the data, you took the card swipes for the students coming in, or you had a QR code for the survey, or you made a point to get quotes from students or take pictures or whatever it was that you're going to do. That when you plan it on the front end, it becomes a lot less time consuming, is a lot easier, a lot less overwhelming. 99% of the time, you're not going to be doing statistical analysis or need to do any math involved with that. So those are the ways that I like to talk about assessment work and hopefully make it less overwhelming for people. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:46]: Let's get into the KC a bit. You two ran and were elected as co chairs. So I'd love to know how you connected in the first place, given that you're, you know, several hundred miles apart. Scott Radimer [00:23:55]: So we were both joined, I think around the same time, a couple years before we joined. And so when the elections were coming up and they were looking for new co chairs, we'd had former co chairs reach out and ask, hey, would you be interested in doing this? So I had known Dana before, but we hadn't worked together super closely, more just in kind of monthly meetings for that. And so as we were discussing this opportunity is when we really connected and got to know each other much better and find a lot of common ground and common perspective and experiences on things, which has been one of the really most rewarding parts of the process is getting to work closely with Dana and get to know her better and feel like we can contribute back to the field in the same way. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:43]: Dana, anything you want to add on that? Dana Weintraub [00:24:45]: I was just going to say, I mean, I think that, you know, one of the really amazing opportunities about being involved in a KC is the opportunity to develop relationships and friendships with colleagues across the world, I guess you could say, because it is an international organization. And I think what I find most rewarding is always having a colleague, and especially now, and working so closely with Scott. I mean, I think we're sort of messaging each other almost on a daily basis. And I appreciate, like our weekly meetings. It's like we meet for an hour and it's like half past, we're like, oh, wait, we should probably talk about KC stuff. But it's like that that first half hour is an opportunity for either me or Scott to get advice on something, for us to just kind of share experiences. And it's just really, especially doing assessment work, which is complicated and it's just really, really like. I think it just allows us to like, grow even more and grow our passion for the work that we do when we have a colleague that works at a different university, even in a different area of assessment. Dana Weintraub [00:25:51]: And we're really able to, to share experiences, rel the challenges and the opportunities, and provide each other with support and most of all, a really good laugh. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:01]: I think that's such an important story to tell because I think a lot of times, especially newer professionals can look at Casey leadership and wonder, how do I get there? We continually hear, I joined because I was interested in the subject matter. I met other people and it's such a natural evolution to maybe not being as collegially close to someone at the beginning and then at the end going, wow, I rely on this person or I see this person so often. And I think I say the same thing about Dr. Chris Lewis, who's the other producer and our audio engineer for the podcast is, you know, we didn't really know each other when we started working on the pod, but now we're very, very close colleagues. So it's such a great way of keeping connection in the field without necessarily being on the same campus. Scott Radimer [00:26:40]: Yeah, I was just gonna say I've been involved with NASPA since 2004. Right. I've been involved for a long time. If I had things to do over again, I would have gotten more involved with the organization much earlier. I think that the best thing was colleague who's also in the KC has been like, scott, you need to show up. Like, you need to join these meetings. And so I did. And really the most important thing is just show up, volunteer if something that you're interested in that you care about, go to the meetings, show up, ask how you can get involved. Scott Radimer [00:27:12]: Because we're looking for volunteers right now, right there. There continues to be opportunities and a lot of it is just like, show up, share your opinions, listen, and the rest of it kind of of happens naturally. I know that student affairs is a very extrovert, focused field. I am not an extrovert. I enjoy my downtime and my reflection time, but it's not difficult or overwhelming. Even if you're not one of the people who think strangers are best friends you haven't met yet. It is not this overwhelming kind of barrier. It's really just like, find something you're interested in and show up. Scott Radimer [00:27:50]: And a lot of the work gets done just by doing that for an. Dana Weintraub [00:27:53]: Interesting connection that I'm making right now. So one of the myths, myths of assessment is, and Scott mentioned it earlier, it's considered an add on, something extra. I have to do that I don't have time to do when really what we're trying to convey is assessment is not an add on. It is going to help you do the work that you're doing in a more meaningful value added way. And when it comes to involvement in the knowledge communities, I think too often people say I don't have time, which is true. And I felt that way too. I don't know how I'm going to have the time to do this. But what I would encourage folks to think about is getting involved in NASPA and professional organizations and especially in the knowledge communities. Dana Weintraub [00:28:40]: Consider it like work wellness because you fit it into your schedule. But it is just such a refreshing opportunity to develop meaningful relationships with colleagues. And so I acknowledge it is intimidating. Know how do you have the time doing assessment? It feels like extra work, but when you get into the routine, you realize how much value comes from it. And the involvement, it's just, I mean the hours that I spend meeting with Scott with the leadership team, they fly by. There's just so much energy that comes out of the room and the conversation. So I really encourage folks to really kind of consider if you're treating yourself to work wellness by getting involved, what's. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:24]: Important to the KC right now? What are the focuses and the hot topics? Scott Radimer [00:29:27]: Yeah, so I'll say the big focus right now is we have a new pre conference that the KC is hosting that was just accepted that is called Assessment 301 Director of Assessment Institute. And so overall doing assessment work kind of as like a sub field in student affairs is still a relatively young career track. And so there's still a lot of like kind of figuring out your way. There's not, it's not like the res life to Dean of Students kind of track that's more well established and understood. That in many ways Dana and I are still kind of trailblazers in this part of the field, which is weird to think about yourself that way. But one of the things we notice is that there's not a lot of opportunities to kind of think about professional development tracks and kind of how you handle these positions. Because at a lot of institutions you're the first person to do this or the second person to do this and you might be the only person or you have some graduate assistant support. And so we thought we should make the professional development opportunity that we're missing for that. Scott Radimer [00:30:40]: And so we've created this pre conference ahead of the national conference in March that we hope people will be interested in and sign up for to be able to help people in these more division wide positions think about, you know, what are the things you really need to do to excel in the current job but also what are the things that you want to think about as you're thinking about next? Because for many people this might not be the last job that they, they want to hold that they might want to do other things as well and be thinking about that. And so I think for the KC it's a lot of what is the needed professional development opportunities both for everybody in the field. Right. Like what are. And we also offer an assessment 101 that's a very long standing assessment and successful pre conference for these kind of like what does anybody need to know? And you don't have to have any background in assessment to come and get value out of these kind of introductory things. But then also how do we think about this smaller, more dedicated part of the profession that maybe hasn't been attended to as much before. And so how do we help people in these more senior responsibilities think about their continued development and career growth and also just building community for people. That's something that Dana and I think have gotten a lot out of being involved in the KC and in our leadership positions. Scott Radimer [00:32:02]: But we want that experience and opportunity for other people as well. So what are the ways in which we can help bring people together, being able to find community and maybe even commiserate at times for some of the challenges that they're going through and help them be more successful as they go forward. Dana Weintraub [00:32:21]: Assessment, evaluation, research. Casey, we're really excited. We're still celebrating our 20th anniversary along with all knowledge communities. And so it's been really, really wonderful over the, over the year to look back on our past, the present and really chart our way for the future. We are so fortunate that on our leadership team we're still very connected with some of the, the earlier chairs of the Casey and so we really have a very, very strong, committed leadership yesterday. So I guess by the time this airs we could say in, in September we did an open meeting where we invited those interested in assessment who are part of the KC to attend one of our leadership team meetings and gather information about the role of assessment that it plays in their day to day work. What are some resources and supports and professional development services. So it gives Scott and I and our colleagues on the leadership team an opportunity to think about, you know, what are our goals and what are the resources that we want to provide our membership. Dana Weintraub [00:33:26]: We have a thriving knowledge community, some really great opportunities, whether it be a writing group, so folks coming together on a continuous basis to pursue a writing project, gather, gain some feedback from peers, write in community. We do ongoing discussions on really important trends and topics related to assessment. So for example, our most recent conversation was on data lakes that brought together colleagues in assessment in information technology institutional research to talk about ways to bring existing data across campus together and think about the various different questions and ways that the data can better tell a story and define our work and how do we go about developing the relationships that we need with data custodians to be able to bring the data together. So lots of exciting, exciting opportunities within the Casey and we really pride ourselves in really providing our membership with an opportunity to find community and find colleagues that share their passion in assessment and to help share resources and strengthen the work that we do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:36]: Can you talk a little bit about the mix of people in the KC in terms of people that are in roles like yourselves that are leading assessment, assessment for student affairs or student affairs adjacent roles versus people who might have full time positions in a different functional area but really appreciate assessment? Dana Weintraub [00:34:50]: Our membership and also our leadership members of our leadership team hold very diverse roles related to assessment. So some are in very traditional director of student affairs assessment positions, some at large public research universities, some at smaller schools mid size. We also have members that work in academic assessment, may work in program review accreditation roles at their universities. We also have folks that work in other functional areas but really believe and are really value assessment and enjoy have been exposed to assessment, whether it be, you know, in their graduate program and taking an introductory course in assessment and really want to be doing assessment more infusing it into their role. And so we could have folks that work in for example student activities work but do assessment concentrated in student activities or for example maybe a liaison between their department and an assessment committee. So within the knowledge community we really aim to provide a community for all folks, whether it be I'm really passionate, I believe in the value of assessment and I want to strengthen my assessment assessment skills all the way to I'm in a full time assessment role whether it be in student affairs or in academics or at the university and for example accreditation role. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:18]: And if I'm a NASA member thinking about joining the AERKC but haven't done so yet, what would you like me to hear? Scott Radimer [00:36:23]: Think that if it's something that you're interested in at all. If you think that this is something that you want to learn more about, then you should sign up to join. Dana Weintraub [00:36:34]: Join. Scott Radimer [00:36:34]: You can just do that on your profile. You'll get our emails about that. You can find us on LinkedIn. We have a page for the KC and you can see what are the programs, what are the webinars, when are the meetings for that and you can choose to opt in. So it's really as much or as little commitment as you want to make that if you come to one program you're not promising to show up to every program for the rest of your career. Dana Weintraub [00:37:00]: Right. Scott Radimer [00:37:01]: That it's really challenged by choice for that and that to the points we've made earlier that it's really not as difficult or overwhelming or separate from your work as it might feel at times that it might feel like especially for those of us that maybe feel more imposter syndrome at time it might feel like oh no, this is something that other people do that aren't like me. That this is really complicated and extra. And it's something that everybody does in their our day to day life. And it's just when you add a little bit more structure to it is what takes it from like having an opinion to doing an assessment or evaluation for that. And so I encourage everybody to think of themselves as assessment people. We're all assessment people as humans and it's just kind of how extra you are in it as we're going through. Yeah. Consider learning more if you don't know anything about it and if you are engaged in it, I would love to have you join us and be engaged with us in there. Scott Radimer [00:38:02]: And that's what I'd say. Dana Weintraub [00:38:03]: One more response to my previous answer. I would be very remiss if I did not acknowledge faculty. Faculty are also a part of the ARKC and our faculty partners who teach assessment student affairs assessment who teach in college student affairs programs. It's time to take a break and toss it over to learn what's going. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:27]: On in the national Anything else you'd like to share with NASPA today about the AERKC or the assessment profession? Scott Radimer [00:38:33]: So I would just say that kind of along the lines of people thinking that this separate work I would just encourage people to think about the skills that your assessment staff have in there at your university, that if you're a senior administrator, chief student affairs officer, your student affairs assessment people have skills and experiences that are very valuable outside of assessment work too. That these are people that you should be considering for AVP roles or executive director roles outside of I think that as a field we have a tendency to preach transferable skills to students and talk about how amazing this is. And then we do not practice that at all when we are actually hiring people, because we end up hiring people who have these very traditional career paths and career trajectories and experiences because we just want someone we know can do it, that they've done this before. And then we miss out on we're hiring for experience rather than hiring for skills for that. And so I would just encourage people to think about the skills. When you're doing strategic planning, when you're doing evaluation, when you're working in assessment, you know what everybody in the division does because you're reading those reports, you're helping them design assessments that they can really have a broad and deep understanding of the the work that we do across areas and bring a lot of insight and innovation to those areas if they are given the chance. So just like we shouldn't view ourselves as just, you know, data people are not data people, we shouldn't also view other people who do that as just data people or not data people. So that's my plug professionals. Scott Radimer [00:40:21]: We can do more than just. Although that is very important, I hope that people value it there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:27]: Finally today a big announcement that the NASPA 2026 Full Housing and Registration is open. I hope that you have had an opportunity to sign up for housing and for the registration. I hope that you have had an opportunity to sign up to attend the 2026 NASPA Annual Conference in Kansas City, Missouri. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:51]: Missouri. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:51]: If you have signed up, definitely sign up for housing today. You don't want to miss out on the housing opportunities before they fill up. And we're looking forward to seeing so many of you at the conference, looking through all of the pre conference opportunities. There are so many to choose from, so also take some time to look through all of those. Many of those are hosted by our knowledge communities or through other institutes or other individuals that are spending a lot of time to prepare and to allow for you to do a deep dive into topics that are meaningful to you that are impacting your campuses or you individually. So I highly encourage you to check out the pre conference opportunities that are also available for sign up. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening with within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:59]: And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And, and as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like this. That or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:06]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us up to date on what's going on in and around naspa. Another great NASPA world segment from you and Scott and Dana. We are now back with our Lightning round. I have seven questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Scott, we're going to start with you and then go to Dana. Are you both ready? Dana Weintraub [00:43:23]: Yes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:23]: All right, question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Scott Radimer [00:43:29]: I'll say Britney Spears, Toxic by Survivor. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:33]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Scott Radimer [00:43:36]: A paleontologist. Dana Weintraub [00:43:37]: To be a Solid gold dancer. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:39]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Scott Radimer [00:43:42]: I will say that it was my friend and colleague Molly Monahan, who was a GA when I was an undergraduate student and is the reason why I'm in higher education today. Dana Weintraub [00:43:53]: I'd say Dr. Larry Mineta, retired vice president of Student affairs at Duke University. I worked with him as a graduate student and really amazing mentor. And to this day, friend number four. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:05]: Your essential student affairs read. Scott Radimer [00:44:07]: I Will say Guy Land by Michael Kimmel. I think that a lot of the things that happen on college campuses are specifically about how men and women view themselves as men and women. And we usually don't think about that. And so Guy Land's a great way to kind of make the subtext text. Dana Weintraub [00:44:28]: So I'm going to take this as answering it from a more personal and what was most meaningful in how I entered in the work that I do is reading Dr. Alexander Astin Sandy Astin's what Matters in College. It really just kind of that's the reason why I do what I do. And it was through that read that actually I think kind of like formed a dream. What was a dream at the time and never knew it was going to become reality of actually studying at ucla. And my time at UCLA was my most formative years in higher education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:02]: Student Affairs Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Scott Radimer [00:45:05]: Frieren is an amazing anime that I highly recommend. Dana Weintraub [00:45:09]: I don't really watch tv. I wish I had time, but I don't. But I would like to get back to I started watching and binging Veronica Mars and so yes, that's the first that came to mind. That's how I'm answering these questions. The first thing that pops into my mind. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:22]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last. Scott Radimer [00:45:26]: Year, the British History Podcast. Dana Weintraub [00:45:28]: I would love recommendations listeners, please give me your recommendations. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:33]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Scott Radimer [00:45:37]: I'm going to shout out my former supervisor and friend from the University of Memphis time together, Daryl Ray, who is an awesome person and and continues to reach out and check in on me even though we haven't worked together for like six years. Amazing person. Shout out to Darrell. Dana Weintraub [00:45:55]: Wow. Well one, I want to give a shout out to everyone on the ARKC leadership team who have been phenomenal colleagues and just thank you for believing in Scott and me and all of your support and it's just so fantastic to work with you. And then I want to give a shout out to some of the folks that are the reasons I'm doing the work that I'm doing today. So Dr. Kristen McKinney for giving me that first position as a graduate student at UCLA Student Affairs Research Office. My current supervisor, Dr. Salvador Mena, who's also a very involved member of NASPA. Thank you for believing in the work that we do in Student affairs assessment. Dana Weintraub [00:46:35]: Want to give a shout out to all of my colleagues at Rutgers and just Scott shout out to you and how much fun it is to partner with you in strengthening the area. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:46]: It's been such a wonderful conversation today getting to know about the work of the AERKC and a little bit more about your styles and leadership on assessment. If anyone would like to find you after the show, how can they find both you and the AERC so you. Scott Radimer [00:46:58]: Can find me on LinkedIn is the best way to connect me. Also, in addition to signing up for the KC through NASPA's platform, you can also find us on LinkedIn as well. Dana Weintraub [00:47:11]: And same for me, LinkedIn is the best place to find me. You're also welcome to email me and I hope that we get a spike in LinkedIn members from after this podcast. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:24]: Thank you both so much for sharing your voice with us today. Dana Weintraub [00:47:27]: Thank you, thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:33]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@savoicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:02]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible and the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

10/23/25 • 52:54

In the newest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, listeners are invited into a candid and inspiring conversation with Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown and Dae'lyn Do, the current Co-Chairs of NASPA's Women in Student Affairs Knowledge Community (WISA KC). Hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, this episode delves deep into what makes student affairs such a meaningful field, particularly through the lens of women's leadership, mentorship, and wellbeing. Jessica and Dae'lyn bring a wealth of experience to their roles—Jessica as Director of Student Leadership and Engagement at Alabama A&M University, and Dae'lyn as Associate Director for the Women in Science and Engineering Residence Program at the University of Michigan. Both share personal journeys into student affairs, marked by transformative mentorship and a dedication to empowering students from all backgrounds. One of the episode's main themes centers on WISA KC's current focus, encapsulated by the acronym GLOW: Growth, Legacy, Openness, and Wellbeing. As Jessica explains, "We are trying to grow as professionals, leave legacies while honoring those before us, share our authentic stories, and prioritize wellbeing." The discussion highlights that supporting the whole student—academically, personally, and emotionally—is at the heart of student affairs, and staff need to care for themselves to sustain this important work. Dae'lyn reflects on how student affairs practitioners understand the field's value through direct impact in students' lives, but emphasizes that telling these stories to those outside the field remains a crucial ongoing challenge. She also underscores the importance of wellbeing, especially for women who often take on the nurturing roles on campus. The episode doesn't shy away from real-world issues: Jessica shares insights from her dissertation on burnout and turnover among entry-level staff, noting compensation and workload as key factors. Both leaders discuss strategies for supervisors to support early-career professionals, stressing flexibility, recognition, and creative ways to foster growth. Listeners will find examples of impactful mentorship, stories of overcoming imposter syndrome, and actionable advice for supervisors and colleagues. If you're interested in connecting with WISA KC, Dae'lyn and Jessica recommend subscribing to their newsletter, joining their LinkedIn group, and exploring volunteer opportunities. Tune in for practical wisdom, personal stories, and a refreshing focus on wellbeing and authentic leadership in student affairs—this episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration and community within higher education. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your SA voices from the Field host. Welcome back to our next episode of SA Voices from the Field. Today we're featuring our NASPA Co-Chairs of the WISA KC Dr. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:34]: Jessica Nathan Brown, a native of Birmingham, Alabama, serves as the Director of Student Leadership and Engagement at Alabama A and M University where she works to enhance student engagement and foster a sense of belonging on campus. In her role, she provides oversight for major campus events, Greek Life, Student Government, Student Publications, University Royalty Student Organizations, International Student Support, Parent and Family Engagement, First Generation Student Initiatives, Freshman Student Transitions, and Welcome Programming and Leadership Development Initiatives. She brings nearly a decade of experience in student activities along with prior experience in residence life. Dr. Brown earned her Bachelor's Degree in Psychology from Stillman College, her Master's in Educational Leadership from the University of South Alabama, and her Doctor of Education in Higher Education Administration from the University of Southern Mississippi. Professionally, Dr. Brown has been an active leader within NASPA, serving four years on the NASPA Alabama Board of Directors as Secretary Treasurer, and four years as professional Development Co Chair for the Women in Student affairs, or WISA Knowledge Community. She now serves as the WISA Co chair for the 2025 through 2027 term and previously held a leadership role within NACA South. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:39]: She currently resides in Decatur, Alabama with her husband Brandon and their son Brandon Jr. Our second guest is DA Lynn Doe. She her Dalen serves as the Associate Director for the Women in Science and Engineering Residence Program at the University of Michigan. Originally from Oklahoma, she earned her Bachelor's Degree in Political Science and Public Relations and Advertising from Northeastern State University and her Master's degree in College Stud from Bowling Green State University in Ohio. Having served on the WISA Casey Leadership Team for almost six years, her involvement with this community has been an instrumental part of her journey in student affairs. She's also been an active member of NASPA since early in her undergrad career, including being part of the NASPA Undergraduate Fellows Program or the NUPF Program and the NASPA Graduate Associate Program or the GAP Program, and serving in a variety of other NASPA volunteer roles. Dalen's experience as a first generation low income college student is what led her to student affairs work. She feels a deep sense of purpose in the field and her goal is to empower students, support them on their journeys toward receiving a higher education, and open doors for them to experience the impact of a college education in the same way that she did. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:43]: Dalen believes in values driven leadership and brings her personal values of integrity, intentionality, authenticity, appreciation and growth to her work with students. Dalen currently lives in Bowling Green, Ohio with her partner and their three pugs. Outside of work, she enjoys playing board games, traveling, spending time outside, and eating good food. Welcome to season 13 of SA Voices here with Jessica. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:03:06]: Hi everyone. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:07]: And Dalen. Dae'lyn Do [00:03:08]: Hello. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:09]: And you two are the current Co Chairs of the Women in Student Affairs Knowledge Community for naspa, which is one of the largest knowledge communities in all of naspa. It's an incredible job that you are both doing. I totally understand why this KC needs co chairs. It's WISA for short. It's got a huge internal board. It is super, super active with everything from events to publications and beyond. So looking forward to talking to you all about what the work is in wisa. But before we get there, we're going to start with your day jobs a little bit and we always like to get to know our guests by asking how did you get to your current seat? And we'll start with you, Jessica. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:03:47]: So my current seat, I am currently the Director of Student Leadership and Engagement at Alabama A and M University. I have been here since 2023 and how I got here I started in student affairs, really undergraduate originally my major was psychology. Wanted to be a therapist and was super involved and so learned that this was a field. So I then went to do my Master's in higher education with a GA in residence life. And then I worked at UAB for 7 years in student activities, hence leading me to now this role in Huntsville. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:19]: Excellent. What's your dissertation title? Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:04:22]: Okay, try to say the actual it's not going to be exact because I don't have to say it often, but essentially I did did my research on burnout in student affairs at the entry level for entry level staff and what were the causes for staff turnover. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:37]: That is an incredible piece of research that we desperately need right now because we know that the field and the dynamics of how we enter the field are changing. So we're definitely going to come back to that. But let's get to know Dalen a little bit as well. Dalen, how did you get to your current seat? Dae'lyn Do [00:04:50]: Yes, I love this question. I have a pretty similar story to I guess a lot of folks in higher ed and student affairs. I of course didn't know what this was before entering college, but I came into my undergrad at Northeastern State University in Tahlequah, Oklahoma as a first generation low income student who originally thought she was going to become a journalist for the National Geographic. I wanted to travel the world and take pictures of animals. But as I was kind of going through my college journey and realizing the impact that higher education was having on my life and why it was having that impact, it kept coming back to the people and the mentors who were supporting me. And so really I kind of learned early on in my undergrad career that I wanted to do this. And so I started getting involved with NASPA as early as like my sophomore year with the nuff program and then started looking into graduate programs and ended up moving across the country to Bowling Green, Ohio to do their college student personnel master's program for two years. And during that program I was an advisor, a scholarship advisor for the Thompson Scholarship programs, which was a perfect place for me because I was getting to work with other low income students, many of them also first gen. Dae'lyn Do [00:06:06]: So a lot of students who had very similar stories to mine and that was, I was really doing the heart work there because it was very connected to my own journey and getting to support those students. So after I did my master's program, I actually stayed on full time in that role for almost three more years before finding my current role at the University of Michigan. I'm just down the road, so I wanted to really try to see. I went to a very small regional school for undergrad and then went to Bowling Green, which was bigger in D1, but I really wanted to kind of see what impact I could have at a university as large as the University of Michigan. And it's definitely been a totally different experience in many ways, but I think it's definitely been good professionally to grow and work with awesome students who are exploring STEM as their future. So it's been really cool to to work in a different space and see how different institutions work differently. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:01]: You both have incredible backgrounds in supporting students in student affairs and connected as women as well. How did you meet each other? Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:07:09]: Through wisa. Actually we met through wisa, being on the leadership team. I was the professional, one of the professional development co chairs for about four years and so I can't remember which year they went when you came in as our TOMS co chair for communications and that is how we met within the leadership team and working together as just part of the larger group internally on projects and things like that as well. Dae'lyn Do [00:07:34]: Remember the first year I joined either, but it was nice to be joining through comms because I got to use some of that media studies background that I had developed in undergrad, but in a. In the setting of higher ed. So that was fun, but we got to connect through that. And then of course at the conferences and things, the connections, building connections that way too. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:53]: How did you decide that it was the moment to try to be become the chairs together? Dae'lyn Do [00:07:57]: Well, I think for me, I always say this about wisa and one of the reasons that I love it is because of just the space of empowerment that it is for women and to like lean on each other and uplift each other. Because I never once said, like, I want to be on wisa, like the leadership team or I want to be the Casey co chair. It was other women who saw that in me. And so even as far back, the first time I got involved with WISA was actually with the regional WISA because the Region 4 East does, I think it's a biannual drive in conference. And so that was the year the COVID was happening. So everything had to switch to virtual. And I was just volunteering as like a little subcommittee on that, planning the drive in conference. And then someone was like, oh, you should join the regional board and then you should join the big board and then you should also apply to be the Casey co chair. Dae'lyn Do [00:08:47]: And so I love that though, because it was never something that I was like, this is my goal or like, I want to do this. But it was other people saying, you would be great for this, like you should apply. Think about it. And so I really love that that has been such a uplifting space. Especially I, you know, I have been involved with WISA very early on in my career. And so as someone who has been a new professional in this space and also having that empowerment has meant a lot to me and I think definitely kind of helped catapult my professional growth in many ways. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:09:18]: Yeah, I mean, for me, I just love being on the team. You know, like I said, I did professional development four years within the leadership team. And so I don't know what. Something just kind of struck me of, like, just throw your name in the HA and just see what happens. And then just kind of finding out that Daylyn was also interested in it. It was just kind of an easy connection for me to be able to work with her because I just had seen the amazing work that she was doing through her role in the communication side. And so I thought that we'd make a great team once we realized that we were both interested in it. So kind of worked out. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:48]: This season we're focusing on the value of student affairs as our theme. And WISA has always been a strong contributor to the profession and the professional development space. Especially. Can you talk a little bit about what your focus is right now as a K and how that's supporting this idea of the value of student affairs right now? Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:10:05]: Yeah, so Daylynn and I created and you know, we'll probably acknowledge our past co chairs because they kind of started this trend of these kind of acronyms and things. And so we were like, well, what, what's going to be our focus? And we came up with glow like wisa and GLOW is for growth, legacy, openness and well being. And so I think those were things that we felt like are areas not only just for women, but just all of student affairs are going through trying to grow as a professional, trying to also, you know, figure out how do you leave your legacy while also honoring those who come before you in the roles that you've been in. Being our authentic selves and sharing our stories and the things that impact us both personally and professionally. And then the big thing, well being. How do we balance student affairs, a busy, busy area or division on every campus, and so how do we balance that as staff when we're trying to also take care of our students? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:58]: So like we said, is a wonderful way of framing that. And I appreciate hearing the focus on caring for yourself while making sure that we're embracing the profession and what we need to do right now. What are WISA members talking about in terms of this question of the value of student affairs on campus? Because we've come in a different direction given that Covid was not that far away, but it's also now a generation of college students away. And we went from being seen as kind of the saviors of the campus for a moment in time back to I think the question and the value of the profession has swung pendulum wise the other direction again a little bit. Not for everybody, but definitely it's there. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:11:35]: You know, in terms of the value of student affairs right now, it's so much. And I think one of the things is being just looking at the whole student because we see them outside of the classroom. And I often hear people say they're in the classroom maybe 20% of the time, but other 80% they're either in organizations they're needing to go to like health and counseling, they're needing their residence, life, all of the things. And so we are Looking at the whole student and trying to look at how do we take a holistic approach to making sure that they stay focused and ultimately that they graduate. And so I think it's this concept of just that holistic student development. I think that's a part of the value of student affairs because we kind of touch them in every area. And depending on what campus you're on, you know, like my campus enrollment management also falls within student affairs. So then you add that piece to it and trying to think about enrollment and retention and those kind of things. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:12:32]: I just think it's the value of it. It's just that we're touching the whole student in all aspects of their life while they're on campus. Dae'lyn Do [00:12:40]: Yeah, when I think about the value of student affairs, truly, I think we as the folks who are doing the work understand the value. Like we know the impact that we're having. And oftentimes we get to see it pretty firsthand when we are connecting with students and seeing the impact that we're having. Not always, but a lot of times we do. And so I think it's really about how are we communicating that or showcasing to other people like that don't aren't in the work day in and day out and don't fully know the work that we do. I mean, of course our. I feel like it's an ongoing joke when we talk to our families about the work that we do. Mine still thinks I'm a professor, so I'm like, well, maybe someday, but not quite yet. Dae'lyn Do [00:13:21]: And so I think being able to communicate and really put into words what the value is. And I also think helping students understand that value and name that themselves too, because I think they do know the value. But they don't know the difference of course between the student affairs side and the non student affairs side. Cause they're just here, they're just at college doing their thing and they just see it as one thing. And so I think helping students share their story and talk about the impact and the people that have impacted them is really important part of it. And I think for women too, a big thing that we're talking about in like the WISA space regularly is that well being piece and how are institutions valuing us in what they say versus like what they do. And so we of course are putting so much of ourselves into this work and both with our time, I mean many, many people working many late nights and weekends and being away from family and really putting time and effort into the work. But then also the like heart of the work and like the emotional toll that it takes on usually women specifically in the field, because we're the ones who have the, quote, unquote, caregiving energy. Dae'lyn Do [00:14:35]: And so the space, the nurturer, yes, the nurturers, they come to us, they see that. And of course I want to do that work and have that impact, but it can't just be all the time. Like, I can't do that all the time and then also go home and be that person for my family as well. And so I think it's kind of two parts. One, telling our stories, two, and showing up in spaces where, especially at tables where they're talking about the impact of the future of higher education, generally speaking. But I also think financially, I think that's been kind of a big question mark for even at the University of Michigan, it's a large flagship institution. Like, financially, things have shifted a little bit recently. And so I think just thinking about the ways that we're supporting our staff and telling our stories, but also putting value into the work that we're doing each day. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:26]: Anything to add there, Jessica? Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:15:27]: I echo everything that Daylenna said, especially the part about telling our stories. I think that part is something that we can do better in student affairs. But I. It gets hard and challenging sometimes because we are so in the work and so it's hard to sometimes come up for air to like literally put it into words or even pictures, whatever that may look like in reports, and different things to share not only just within our divisions, but across our institutions, but because we're so in it, sometimes it's hard to remember, like, hey, we need to share what we're doing so that people really understand the impact that we're having. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:02]: I think this leads us nicely into our three theme based questions for the season. And I'm actually gonna go in in a different order because I think we're. We're going to start with number three. Our first. Well, third question of the theme season is what do you think that student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:16:21]: Well, I think what we were just talking about with telling our stories, the data is there, we're doing it. Whether it's through qualitative or quantitative ways or methods, the data is there. It's just us putting it together, putting it out there and telling our stories. But I also think it is making sure that we advocate for, like us being educators. A lot of times when, you know, if you're in a room and people may Say all the educators, raise your hand. And sometimes we're kind of like, I mean, yes, that's us, but we're not the faculty. But we are still educating students in other ways. And so just reminding ourselves that we are educators as well, even though we're doing it from maybe the staff side of things versus faculty, but we are still educators, whether that be through leadership development or different things like that. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:17:06]: And that also comes with collaboration. I think we can collaborate with other divisions. So, you know, that bridge between student affairs and academic affairs, if we're collaborating more versus sometimes being in silos, I think that that could help us be better as well. Dae'lyn Do [00:17:21]: Yeah, I think again, it's hard because we know the work that we do and the impact that we're having. And sometimes it feels like others maybe aren't thinking about us or, I don't know, thinking about that in the day to day because again, they're not on the ground doing the work. And so I think, of course, showing up in those spaces and advocating for our ourselves. But I also think, how do we get other folks to look at us too? I guess because it's like, well, what can we do? Well, I think we're doing the work and like we're doing what we need to be doing to have the impact. It's just figuring out how we showcase that and really get people to listen and hear the impact on a greater scale. Because, yeah, I think, as we all know, higher education is kind of in a shift moment right now. And I don't want us to be the people who fall through the cracks as decisions have to be made. But I. Dae'lyn Do [00:18:15]: We're already seeing that happen both financially across the country and different institutions. And I know many colleagues who've lost their jobs recently and it did matter that they told their story, but like, they did tell it and it still like, wasn't enough. And so I guess it's kind of hard to think about what can we do? We're already doing so much, so how can we get people to listen? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:36]: I guess going to our first question for our season. When you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? Dae'lyn Do [00:18:43]: For me, I mean, it's very personal. I think about how dramatically my life changed as a result of higher education. And of course it was because of what I was learning inside of the classroom, but it also was because of what I was learning outside of the classroom and the connections that I was making and the people who were empowering me and helping me process my own imposter. Syndrome and just the different things that you don't always talk about with a faculty member or in an academic setting. And yeah, I just think about that all the time. And like, of course that's why I do the work that I do. So it's easy for me to say, oh, I want to continue to give back in this way, but like, it's so true. I mean, when I have students who come to my office and want to talk through the challenges that they're having, that means so much to me. Dae'lyn Do [00:19:31]: And being able to really help them just navigate some of those things that they aren't sure of or don't know who to ask, especially for. For my fellow first gen students out there, you don't always even know what you need. And so being someone who knows, hey, maybe this is maybe what's going on, like, have you thought about it this way? And then just seeing that moment click for them and being able to just reach their dreams, I mean, there's so many things that can impact your ability to succeed and the barriers that you have to overcome. And being someone who can connect students to resources to help them do that so that at the end of the day they can go, go be the person that they wanted to be and reach their goals and dreams. That is everything to me. Again, because it's both, because it's personal, because I've been there, I've done that, but also because I want my students do that too, and I care about them and want them to reach their goals and dreams as well. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:20:20]: Love that. Similar for me, when I think about the value of student affairs, I think about impact. We make a huge impact on students, lives on the campus, on other areas across campus, especially, you know, just like I said earlier, depends on how your division may be structured, but we are touching students in a very holistic way in every aspect of their lives while they're here. And I just think about the impact that we're having. Like, even when it's hard and it's tough and we're tired and we just want to rest, what keeps me motivated and keeps me going is knowing the impact that we're making on students. And when I have students from years ago and I see them, whether that's in person or I'm just following them on social media and seeing all the great things that they're doing. And every now and then you have that one or two. That's just like, I remember when you taught me this or, or you said this to me and that helped me like Those. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:21:11]: Those little moments are like, make it worth it, all of the late nights and different things like that. So I definitely think impact when I think about the value of student affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:21]: Our third slash second question for this theme is, can you please share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? And in your references there, Jessica, I think you've got some of those stories right at the forefront. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:21:34]: So I think, well, this is probably a long time ago, probably in my early few years, you being a new professional, but working with student organizations and advising them. And I had a student where I was really kind of challenging them. So I came in and I kind of inherited some students in an organization, so they were already selected. And I kind of came in and, you know, you kind of, as a new professional, like, I don't know, like, you know, I don't want to rock the boat too much, but I. I thought, you know, some things needed to be changed. And so I did have one student who came back after he had graduated, and he was just talking about things in his career, and I was asking how things were going, and he was like, yeah, and it was just a small thing. And he was just like you. I had to make sure that all my emails were professional and different things that I was sending out. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:22:17]: And he said, and you made me do that. You made me do that when I was in the organization to make sure that my emails are written professionally or you would send it back to me and say, start over. And that helped me make sure that I'm being professional in my career right now. And so even just the small things, I'll never forget that moment. I was like, oh, you really were paying attention. I thought I was just flipping at your time. And so I've had a lot of moments like that. And I think of another, more recent one where I had a student who was just on the fence about running for our Student Government association president and really didn't think that she had what it took to do it, but she had served in another leadership role on campus, but I guess she didn't think that it was to the same level and kind of saying, like, you know, do you really think that I can do this? And I said, I think you can do it. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:23:03]: And I've just seen what you've done, you know, in your current role. And she ran, she won. And phenomenal. Just like everybody, the university president, everybody was complimenting how professional she is all the time and all those things. She just did an amazing job. And I Always just made a point, whether she was giving a speech or something and say, like, you're doing a great job. So I actually saw her the other week. She came to campus. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:23:29]: She's graduated now, but for an event that we had one of our welcome activities and walked up and hugged me and just said, everything is going really well. But I think think just that little bit of a nudge to like, help them see their potential really matters in the moment. Dae'lyn Do [00:23:41]: I definitely echo the sentiment of saying things that you don't realize are actually having an impact or like, even thinking like, oh, this is a good moment. Oh, that was a good nugget of knowledge that I shared. No, I never think that. But then they come back to me months later and they're like, you said this one time. And I was like, oh, I'm so glad that you remember that I said that. I don't even remember saying that. So that definitely happens all the time. Which only makes me a little more. Dae'lyn Do [00:24:06]: Okay, I need to really know what I'm talking about here. They're gonna take it all. So I can't think of a good example of that, but definitely echo that. But one thing I do think about often is so each year that I have been a full time professional in higher education, I have facilitated like a welcome week for our incoming students. And so one of the sessions that I was really passionate about including in the welcome week programming, the first time I did it was an imposter syndrome session. And so just naming what it is, helping students explore if they're potentially feeling it. And I remember the first year that I did it or that I would had proposed that it be a topic, one of my colleagues was like, well, I don't know, like, do you think that this is too heavy of a topic to talk about? Like their first week, you know, they're just getting to campus and like, they need to be getting excited and feeling, you know, you know, we don't want to like, make them sad by talking about imposter syndrome on day one. And I was like, I understand what you're saying, but I actually think the opposite. Dae'lyn Do [00:25:06]: Because the truth is, is that many of these students are feeling that imposter syndrome. And so by not naming it early on, they're just going to be feeling it whether we talk about it or not, but then have those feelings in isolation and feel lonelier about it and not know how to talk about it. And so I really, like, pushed back and was like, no, I think we need to include it in welcome week. I Know it's heavier, but like it's important. And that year and every year since I think this is my fifth or sixth year presenting the session, every single year, I have students who just talk about how impactful that session session is and they write little notes to say like, thank you. This had such a huge impact on me. You really normalized this for me. Like, I have students come scheduling one on ones like the next week because they're like, just want to talk about it more and unpack it more on their own personal journey. Dae'lyn Do [00:25:56]: And in that I'm very authentic about my own journey. And so I think that helps too to normalize it. But I just think about that every year because I remember that I felt hesitant because someone questioned it, but I said no, I think this is important. And really sticking through to what I thought impact that I knew that it would make and then knowing that that has been true is really special to see that and see the impact play out that way. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:20]: I read something not too long ago that was to the effect of imposter syndrome is not an individual's challenge to overcome. It's really the individual encountering a system that was never made with them in mind. Which I really appreciate that reframe. Dae'lyn Do [00:26:34]: That is definitely something I talk about in that space because it's true. I mean especially. And I think again, circling back to the value of this work and why we do this work. And it's because, yeah, these systems were not made for me or many of the people who do continue to do this work. And so naming that so that it's not something that a student or even as student affairs professional, I can't say I don't still feel imposter syndrome sometimes. And so I think recognizing that it's not like I'm not the problem, like it was never about me being the issue. It's the system that was built and how do we help our students understand so that they don't feel like they have to change something about themselves. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:27:16]: And I'd also say on even the staff side of things, like, I'm a huge proponent of professional development, staff development, which is why I'm so involved. I've been so involved in NASPA and other associations, but I think about this past summer served as a faculty for New Professionals Institute. And just being in that space with all those new professionals, it just reenergized me. And I heard a lot of them saying they're leaving. I re energized after participating in the institute. But I even think about we had One on one sessions. I mean, they could sign up to meet with, you know, whatever faculty they wanted to meet with. And I had a couple of participants say to me or even write me notes after the fact about, you know, just even thinking about the identity of it, of seeing me as a black woman in a director's seat. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:28:03]: And that's where they want to be. And they wanted to make sure, like I wanted to make sure that I met with you. And there was one other black female, a faculty member, and that was important to them to see. And it helped them be energized and ready to go back and continue to do the work. Because burnout was a big topic for them. And so just seeing that impact as well from the staff side of things made me be like, okay, again, I'm tired. But people, the impact is there. And so to keep pushing and doing the work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:32]: Let's go back to that dissertation topic. Jessica, as we're talking about burning, what can you tell us about new professionals and their choice to enter and then ultimately exit the field early in their careers? Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:28:43]: So you know that I. So I did a survey and everyone has similar stories to me and Daelyn as far as entering the field. What I found when it comes to the turnover was the top things were burnout. Compensation was the other big thing. I'm feeling like a lot of times entry level professionals are the boots on the ground, like doing the late nights and the different things like that and feeling as though they're not getting paid adequately for that. And we all know student affairs work is hard work. I know Daelyn mentioned that about the heart earlier. And so oftentimes we aren't doing it for the paycheck. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:29:18]: We are doing it because we really love what we do. And so that was definitely the top two things was burnout due to the workload, often working more than 40 hours a week and compensation. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:31]: I have a former colleague who was incredible in their job and then ended up moving on to Amazon where they ended up, I believe, more than xing their salary for a similar type of level of position. So that's always interesting to see what is the impact of what we can do within the boundaries of our jobs versus what can we do if we move in industry? I can see pros and cons to, you know, working in an education setting versus a corporate setting setting. But as much as we love our jobs in student affairs, we still also need to be able to pay our bills. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:30:04]: Right? And I'll also add that I did also find a Couple of people that indicated when they moved from student affairs to another area on campus, they were paid a little bit more and they could also go home at 5 with some of the feedback there as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:20]: Anything else that listeners should know, especially listeners that are in supervisory roles in terms of supporting new professionals or kind of early career professionals so that they can persist at in the profession if that's what they want to do. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:30:32]: I would encourage supervisors to check in one because sometimes we think everything is okay because people are just moving and going, but sometimes if we just ask the question, how are you doing? We'll learn a lot that may not be said otherwise. So I think checking in, I think in spaces where we may not be able to compensate financially, find other ways to be creative for that compensation, whether that be professional development, paying for those things if we have the budget to do so, giving some time off here, take a day here and there, those types of things. Getting a gift card. Sometimes I try to take my staff to lunch every now and then. I know it's small but hey, let me take you to lunch or I have a little all about me thing that we have. And so I'm able to kind of pick out snacks and different things. They like to kind of say, hey, here's a little thank you for the work that you're doing. So I think being creative in ways to compensate and support our staff, but definitely to check in because sometimes they may not say it if we don't ask. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:28]: And Dalen, in the inverse, you are probably in your last year of being called early coach career. So you're in your fourth to fifth year at the moment as a full time professional. What behaviors have you seen from supervisors or colleagues that has helped you persist in the field, knowing that burnout has been high amongst early career professionals? Dae'lyn Do [00:31:45]: Yeah, I think I've been lucky in that sense of just having really supportive supervisors who sought the idea of flex time or like if you're working late on a Tuesday, I don't want to see you on Wednesday morning. Being able to find balance, I guess where recognizing that sometimes it's not written into the contract, but still being able to find ways to make that space for yourself and to not just keep yourself running and especially if it doesn't make sense. Obviously I want to be here and be present to support the students, but do I have to be here at 8am every single morning to do that? No, probably not. And I even work in the same building where they're sleeping, but they're just upstairs. But they're still asleep. So if they don't need me there, they don't need me there. But because I have that flexibility, I can be there when they do need me. And like, it's in the times and spaces when they need me. Dae'lyn Do [00:32:37]: So I've been lucky in that way. And just having supportive mentors who and again, check in on my own professional development, making sure I'm feeling like I'm continuing to challenge myself and grow and making spaces where I feel both celebrated, but also gaining opportunities to take on new things. Like, if there's something I'm like, oh, I don't really have experience in this and I want to gain it. Creating spaces for me in those settings I think is really important because they know that in order to make more money, we have to move up. And so recognizing that, okay, you might not be working under me forever, and that's okay. I want to support you on that journey too, because I think sometimes it's, you know, when you work with good people, of course you don't want them to leave. But I think I've had good supervisors who recognize that, like, well, if it's better for you, what's best for you is to leave, then that's okay. Let's help you get where you want to go. Dae'lyn Do [00:33:30]: And so I think trying not to be hold on to those people if what's best for them is for them to grow and spread their wings somewhere else. So I feel like I have been supported in that way. And then another thing I just was thinking about was, and I don't know what question this answers or who is the person who should answer it, but I do think I've seen, as I've continued to see people like leaving our field, especially younger professionals, we are lowering the expectations for our jobs and like the job postings. And so I feel like I've seen a lot more people entering student affairs spaces without the student affairs background. And it's not that it's always a bad thing. I mean, of course outside perspective is often helpful, and it's not that those people aren't also great. But I do think that when we talk about the value of student affairs, we aren't seeing that in those spaces all of the time. Because yes, I got a degree in this work. Dae'lyn Do [00:34:25]: I spent two years learning how to work with students, learning the theory behind it, learning all of the things, things. And then I'm not being valued for that education that I'm like bringing because you might hire someone over me who doesn't have that education or experience. And so I think just thinking about that, I guess I don't know. Again, I don't know what the solution is because I also understand that sometimes you don't even have options when you're hiring. But it's just thinking about that and what value. When we talk about the value, recognizing the value in our own education and what we went to school for and just like naming that in those spaces. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:01]: That'S a great can of worms question that I don't want us to necessarily dig all the way into, but I think it has been on the table for a little while, which is do you need a Master of Education degree focused in college student Services administration or higher Education administration in order to be successful in student affairs roles? I think personally the answer for some roles is yes, and for some roles maybe not. Maybe a completely different skill set as needed, such as communications or sociology or business backgrounds. So it's an interesting question that I think our field is going to have to face in the next couple of years for sure. I want to circle back to WISA as our time wraps up together. If I'm a listener and a NASA member and WISA is intriguing to me, but maybe I've never entered the space before, how can I enter it and what can I expect once I'm in it? Dae'lyn Do [00:35:47]: Yes, well if you're not already subscribed to our monthly newsletter, you should definitely do that. That is where we promo all of our upcoming events and ways to get engaged. We also have social media page, both LinkedIn. We actually have a private LinkedIn group which is where you can join join and I think there's like over 20,000 people in the group. So it's a really popping group. But you can join it and then you can share. So that one's really nice to be able to be like I have a job posting and like people can just share their research and all the things that there are going on. And then we have a public group that is where we can share specific WISA content so events and different things. Dae'lyn Do [00:36:27]: And so both of Those exist on LinkedIn. We also have an Instagram and a Facebook so that's really the best way to figure out what's going on with with us. The newsletter and social media are certainly the go tos, but when you do enter the space we have lots of programming happening all the time. We have a couple of different signature initiatives happening this fall. We also have a blog so you can write for our WISA blog and share any kind of research that you're working on, but also just anything you feel like you want to write about that applies to women in our field and sharing that in our space. We are open for that. I think those are some key things that you could be a part of, but definitely all of the things you can find out about us on social media or newsletter. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:10]: Jessica Anything to add? Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:37:11]: For now on Instagram it's NASPA Women with an X. So if you're looking us up and I'll also say we also have opportunities as well. So while our leadership team is full, we have opportunities to volunteer as committee members under some of our co chairs. So if you're interested, reach out to either one of us as well so we can get you plugged in to be a part of some of those smaller subcommittee. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:39]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. I'm excited today to be able to announce the 2026 Pillars of the Profession. The Pillars of the Profession every year are selected from the NASPA foundation, and it is one the of of the Foundation's highest honors. The award comes from you, our members and supporters as a way to recognize your fellow colleagues who represent outstanding contributions to the field and our organization. This year, the NASPA foundation has selected two 2026 John L. Blackburn Distinguished Pillar of the Profession Award winners, Henry G. And Betty Simmons. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:26]: This award is the NASPA Foundation's highest honor, celebrating previous Pillar of the Profession winners who have continued to contribute to the field. The foundation has also identified the following individuals as Pillars of the Profession for this year Tierney Bates, Vice Chancellor for Student affairs at the University of South Carolina Upstate Roland Bullard Jr. Vice president for Student Success at Stillman College Charlotte Davidson, Director of the Native American House, University of Illinois at urbana champaign Rich DiCapua, Senior Associate Dean of Students and Deputy Chief Student Life Officer at Tufts University Cassie Gerhardt, Senior Associate Vice President for Student affairs at University of North Dakota Gianluca Giovannucci, President of iuka, the European University College Association Dennis Gregory, Associate professor of Higher Education at Old Dominion University University Blanche Hughes, Vice President of Student Affairs, Colorado State University, Fort Collins Paul McLaughlin II, Vice President and Dean of the College at Colgate University Brian Mitra, Vice President of Student affairs and Enrollment Management at CUNY Queensborough Community College Sophia Pertuss, founder and Principal Consultant at Mainstream Insight LLC Scott Pesca, Esther, Assistant Provost for Academic and Student Success at Waubonsie Community College Calvin Phillips, Vice President for Student affairs at the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Mark Shook, Associate Vice President and Dean of Students and Deputy Title IX Coordinator at the University of South Carolina David Surratt, Vice President for Student affairs and Dean of Students at the University of Oklahoma Michelle Topp, Vice Provost for Student affairs at Portland State University University Erin Kahunwaika Wright, Interim Associate Vice Provost for Student Success and Dean of Students at the University of Hawaii at Manoa and Toya Younger, Senior Vice President for Student affairs at Iowa State University this new class of pillars will be honored at the 2026 NASPA Annual Conference. If you would like to celebrate one or multiple of these pillars of the profession with a donation to the NASPA foundation foundation in honor of them, to the NASPA foundation website and donate online, your donations will go towards celebrating not only these individuals, but supporting the efforts of the foundation to support members, research and more, and support the association more broadly. The early registration for the NASPA Strategies Conference is coming up on October 28, 2020. The NASPA strategies conference is happening January 15th to 17th, 2026 in Chicago, Illinois. The strategies conferences provide student affairs practitioners with the knowledge and skills to effectively address collegiate alcohol and drug misuse prevention, mental health, sexual violence prevention and response, peer education and well being through a variety of comprehensive and integrative approaches. These conferences allow for individuals to gather together and to unite champions of health and well being in one space to learn, network and advance comprehensive, integrative approaches to campus challenges. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:46]: If these conferences sound like ones that you would like to attend, they are a powerful they are powerful conferences and definitely ones that you will learn from. I highly encourage you to check them out today by going to the NASPA website. To get there, just go to NASPA and go under events and online learning to learn more. Another professional development opportunity is the Next up Elevation for Millennial Women Leaders presented by the Women's Leadership Institute. This is happening December 10th through December 12th in Decatur, Georgia. You know Middle managers are often at the heart of change tasked with translating senior executive strategies into actionable plans. If you are a middle manager who identifies as a Millennial or as Millennial adjacent, this is a amazing opportunity to be able to meet other individuals like yourself that are changing campuses one day at a time. This conference has carefully curated a lineup of panels, speakers and breakout sessions to explore topics such as Real Talk for Power, Middle Career Acceleration, Strategy Strategies, Intentional Peer Based Networking, Holistic Leadership Development, Bridging Generations and Building legacies. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:06]: As mentioned, this is in Decatur, Georgia at Agnes Scott College in December of 2026. You can find out more on the ACUI website, go to acui.org and click on Events to find out more. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers, or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for your yourself, where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to, to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:37]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:49]: Chris, we always appreciate you keeping us informed on what's going on in and around naspa. And we have now reached our light where I've got seven questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. We've got Dalen going and then Jessica going. So we're gonna dive in right with question one, if you're ready. Dae'lyn Do [00:45:06]: We're ready. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:07]: All right, question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dae'lyn Do [00:45:12]: I'm gonna be bad at this. I would probably say something by chance. The rapper. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:16]: Love that. I would probably say anything. Beyonce. But for today, I'm gonna say run the world. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:22]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dae'lyn Do [00:45:25]: Journalist. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:26]: I wanted to be a teacher. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:28]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dae'lyn Do [00:45:30]: Dr. Kelly Jo Larson. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:32]: Dr. Sharon Whitaker Davis. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:34]: Number four, your essential student affairs read. Dae'lyn Do [00:45:37]: I have recently been reading a book about first generation professionals in student affairs in higher education, so I would recommend that one. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:45]: Well, I haven't read it yet. But I just bought it at the NASA conference this year. About mid level managers. I can't remember the exact book, but it's about mid level managers. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:54]: Number five the best TV show you've been binging lately. Dae'lyn Do [00:45:57]: Well, it's fall so I'm back on Gilmore Girl. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:00]: Binging same. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:46:01]: My husband and I binge watched recently this show called the Hunting Party. It's a new show but it was very, very enticing. So we will be watching it when the next season comes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:11]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dae'lyn Do [00:46:15]: Probably one of my Taylor Swift podcasts that talk about the Easter eggs and things, especially with the upcoming album. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:46:23]: So I'm not a big podcast person, but I'll say they do have a podcast, but I see the clips on Instagram so it's Devale and Kade Ellis just talking about relationship type thing. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:34]: And finally, number seven any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dae'lyn Do [00:46:38]: I just give a shout out to everybody who's helped me along my journey and thank you for supporting me. All my supervisors that I've had along the journey and my students too. I think we didn't talk about that as much today, but I definitely think that the students have impacted me and my own growth as much as I've probably impacted them, hopefully. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:46:58]: I'd like to shout out my WISA family, best co chair in the world, Daelyn, our former co chairs in the past few years. I'd also like to shout out my husband who's also in student affairs. So that's always a fun story. We both are in student affairs. Shout out all of my like Damon said, my past supervisors, my current supervisor, my Alabama A&M family, just everyone in my family who's been a part of my journey. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:20]: It's been such a joy to learn more about WiSA's work today and get to know your perspective perspectives on the value of student affairs. I'm sure there are other NASPA listeners who would like to connect with you both if they would like to find you. How can they do that? Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:47:33]: Yeah, so my LinkedIn is just Jessica Nathan Brown. Definitely connect with me and would love to chat and get to know you. Dae'lyn Do [00:47:41]: I agree. My LinkedIn is also just Dailyn Doe so you should be able to find me and connect and also reaching out via the link WISA platforms as well. We monitor those so if that's easier. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:54]: Thank you both so much for sharing your voices with us today. Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:47:57]: Thank you. Dae'lyn Do [00:47:57]: Thank you for having us. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:03]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@savoicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:33]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode this episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

10/16/25 • 49:01

Are you searching for inspiration to fuel your own journey in leadership and personal development? Look no further than the latest episode of our podcast, featuring Craig Best in conversation with Dr. Jill Creighton. This thought-provoking discussion is packed with candid stories, honest reflections, and actionable takeaways that you won't want to miss. One of the main themes that emerges from this episode is the ongoing process of growth—both personally and professionally. Craig Best is refreshingly open about the importance of learning from failure and embracing vulnerability in the leadership space. Through his anecdotes and experiences, listeners are reminded that the path to success isn't linear, and that setbacks are not just inevitable, but invaluable. Craig's perspective encourages us to reframe mistakes as opportunities for learning and self-improvement rather than sources of shame. Another powerful topic explored during the episode is the significance of authentic relationships. Both Dr. Creighton and Dr. Lewis draw out compelling insights as Craig shares how cultivating trust and genuine connections can create lasting impact. Whether you're a leader in your organization or working to develop your own network, the episode is packed with practical advice for fostering environments where everyone feels empowered and heard. The episode also delves into the idea of legacy—how leaders shape their environments today, and how their choices reverberate over time. Craig discusses the mentors who have influenced him, the lessons he hopes to pass on, and the obligation leaders have to support and uplift others. This conversation is an important reminder of the ripple effect our words and actions can have, both now and in the future. Finally, you'll be inspired by the emphasis on self-awareness and intentionality as essential leadership tools. The dialogue is filled with strategies for staying grounded, keeping ego in check, and navigating challenges with empathy and grace. If you're looking for a compelling listen that blends insight, authenticity, and actionable wisdom, this episode with Craig Best, and Dr. Jill Creighton is one you can't afford to skip. Tune in now and unlock new perspectives that will help you lead, grow, and connect more effectively—both in your personal life and your professional journey. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices, we're headed across the pond to meet Craig Best, who's currently the Director of Student and Academic Services at the University of Manchester. Craig is a senior higher education leader and researcher with extensive experience shaping student experience, governance and digital innovation across UK universities. As a Director at the University of Manchester, he oversees a broad portfolio spanning student success, outreach and access, curriculum and quality development, international transnational education and collaborations, interdisciplinary learning, careers and employability, student volunteering and success and administrative services including timetabling, data management, student records, admissions and student finance. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:09]: His leadership is defined by emotional intelligence, participatory decision making and a strategic focus on sustainable institutional impact. Craig's research at the University of Bath explores the intersection of emotional intelligence, systems thinking and higher education governance, with particular attention to digital transformation and policy implementation. A central theme of his work is the role of leadership playing in a volatile and uncertain climate we now find ourselves in. Beyond research, Craig translates theory into practice. He's led transformative initiatives and quality assurance, service delivery and workforce planning, admissions collaborations. Wow, starting that whole paragraph over. Sorry. Beyond research, Craig translates theory into practice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: He's led transformative initiatives in quality assurance, service delivery and workforce planning, admissions and collaborations. His approach ensures that institutional change aligns with mission and market realities while advancing student outcomes and staff development. Craig also serves on the Academic Registrar Council Executive in the uk, contributing to sector wide leadership and policy discussions as a mentor and advocate for professional growth. He champions leadership grounded in ethical reasoning, critical thinking and systems awareness, bringing comparative international perspectives to inform policy, practice and innovation in UK higher ed. Driven by inclusivity, innovation and service excellence, he Craig combines deep sector knowledge with creative problem solving, positioning institutions to navigate complex challenges while sustaining their core mission and enhancing the student and staff experience. Craig, welcome to SA Voices. Craig Best [00:02:37]: Hi Jill. It's really nice to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:40]: Lovely to see you again. You first engaged with NASPA at this year's annual conference. Which happened. Where were we? Craig Best [00:02:48]: New Orleans. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:49]: New Orleans, that's right. I was. I was thinking Seattle, but that was two years ago now. I believe that was your first exposure to naspa, right? Craig Best [00:02:55]: It was absolutely my first exposure. Exposure and it blew me away. What NASPA does. I've come back singing the praises of NASPA and how the US model the work around student affairs and academic affairs is just absolutely fantastic. Lots of learning happened, lots of thoughts. So yeah, it's really great to be on the podcast to talk a little bit more about the UK and kind of where I've come and where all those kind of directions to travels are. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:22]: Well, as far as English speaking countries that are producing a lot of research, the UK is certainly at the top of that list as well, producing a lot of information at the moment. And a lot of change is happening in the British higher education landscape. So I thought we'd use our episode today to help our primarily North American audience learn a little bit more about what student services looks like in the UK and what we call things, because we have a lot of students coming over to study abroad. And in my own experience, I think that there's a lot of assumptions that we understand each other's culture more easily because we speak the same language. But I've also found that's really not true in a lot of cases. And so that assumption can get us into trouble when we think we understand the context and maybe we don't. So I'd love to start with Amashi actually, and if you could tell us a bit about what Amashi is, because for our North American listeners, it's really the analog in the UK to NASPA in a lot of ways, but the purview is a little bit broader because of the way that things are structured. So why don't you tell us about Amashi and what you do there? Craig Best [00:04:23]: Yeah, no. So there's a number of associations in the UK and the British sector. So the one that probably is a closest aligned to naspa, as you said, Jill, is Omoshi, which is as its full name, which is rarely ever used, is the association of Managers of Student Services and Higher Education. Rolls off the tongue naturally. That's been about for about 20, 25 years and it's focused on what we in the, in particular in the UK refer to as student services. And traditionally that's focused quite a lot on your safeguarding, your mental health, your well being, some of the work around student experience and development, but mainly it focuses on the welfare and wellbeing side of the institution. But it does range into things like equality and diversity. It does deal with complaints and appeals and that process. Craig Best [00:05:16]: But that group is predominantly your director level. So and I appreciate we've had a chat about this previously, is even our titles are different between the US and the uk. So a director level in the UK is around Europe, probably your Associate VP role within the us. So that traditionally was a smaller. A group of people that would come together, share good practice. And over the last 10 years, with most of our associations, it's broadened out to be an opportunity to bring people in to talk about the key themes and subjects. So sexual violence and harassment, looking at how we support Black heritage students or widening participation Students to succeed has been a big part. And for two years prior to the role I've taken on in another association, I was a member of the Executive for Omoshi, and now I'm an executive member for something we call arc, which is the Academic Registrars Council, which the best way of describing it is lots of the directors of Student Support Services report into the Academic Registrar role or the registrar role within the university. Craig Best [00:06:26]: So the Vice President of Student affairs or Academic Affairs. And the way I kind of talk about that is we don't necessarily use the word student affairs in the uk. It's not a word we use. Student services is academic services or registry as a more traditional way. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:43]: And that Academic Registrar title was really confusing for me at first because in the US it typically means the person who is literally in charge of university credits and scheduling and some parts of enrollment. So my best analogy is that the Academic Registrar role in the UK is more like what we would call a vpsaem or Vice President for Student affairs and Enrollment Management. So both of those funnels are in that position. You also mentioned a couple of other terms that I just want to make sure that we clarify. You said safeguarding, which is not a term that's used in North America a ton. And then you also mentioned being on the Executive. So why don't you go ahead and just give us a quick brief explanation on those. Craig Best [00:07:21]: Yes. So in the uk we use safeguarding as a phrase. So from a legal perspective, it's around protecting vulnerable individuals. So that may be people that may not have capacity defined by law, or it's in the broader sense around protecting the interests of individuals. And what do we do to safeguard a student that may be facing domestic violence, maybe facing sexual violence, so that that all builds into that. I think the one thing to really note about what I think is the difference between a US and a UK model is that student affairs, we operate quite heavily in a compliance environment, so we have quite a lot of regulatory. So when we talk about regulatory, it's the government requirements, so we have to meet conditions. So requirements of a regulatory body. Craig Best [00:08:14]: So That's a government bodies called the Office for Students and there are multiple conditions in there and we're expected to demonstrate compliance and that enables us to be a higher education institution on the register. If we don't, then we can't seek funding, we can't ask our students to access student loans. So there's quite a lot of heavily compliant requirements such as things around the Equality Act. So that's the equality, diversity and inclusion requirements within the uk. We also have our Counterterrorism and Security act within the uk, which we colloquially in institutions called prevent. And you may hear that it's prevent duty and that's about protecting around counterterrorism all the way through to good practice guidance. So if you ever joined a UK institution, it's like navigating compliance and regulatory expectations. But no, safeguarding is around protecting the interests of people, supporting people when there have been challenges around welfare, wellbeing, etc. Craig Best [00:09:17]: And then just touching on that executive piece. So for Omoshi, the Omoshi exec are elected individuals. We all institutions can be members of Omoshi. So you pay to be a member and then annually people will then stand for election and that's a spread from the uk. So we have nations within the uk, so Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales and then in England there are about 10, I'm not 100% remember, but about 10 people that are elected, elected. We have a chair of vice chairs for the Organization for personal Professional Development and then you have an executive group. So I was fortunate to be elected two years ago and led two of the national conferences and then I stepped off because my role changed and I gained a broad arrayment as you, as you just said, my are ranges from student development and leadership all the way through to quality assurance admissions and your typical registration, immigration compliance. So my role was a very broad role, which I think you do. Craig Best [00:10:21]: You find more in the uk, those typical teams are more dispersed. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:25]: Let's go back to OFS for a moment and talk about some of that regulatory information. Because that policy landscape in the UK is very different than the policy landscape in North America, whether it be Canada or the United States. And ofs, as far as I can conceptualize, it is a combination of the U.S. department of Education as well as the accrediting body that give US institutions their right to degree grant, basically, and then also in combination with state law in some aspects. So OFS is kind of the heavy hitter. But what are some of the biggest things that you're working with right now in terms of compliance when it Comes to making sure that student services are running smoothly at your institutions. Craig Best [00:11:05]: Yeah. No. So in the uk, we've had quite a change in our regulatory environment. But you've absolutely articulated it well, Jo, is that, you know, we, as a higher education sector, we are influenced by the government, but we are independent. And I think that's what's really important for us. Most of the institutions in the UK have awarding powers, so we award our degrees as. As an institution. And that's previously been influenced by the Privy Council stats that the government approved that many, many years ago. Craig Best [00:11:38]: And then as the Department of Education came into place under our Conservative government a number ago, what we ended up with, with something called the Office for Students, and that ultimately is our regulatory body. So they are responsible for the compliance to ensure that institutions are meeting in the best interests of students. So there was a Government act, so it went through Parliament and the OFS was set up. And as part of the ofs, there are many conditions and a lot of them focus on the good standing of an institution. So. So things around governance, ensuring finance is appropriate as well. But more importantly for student affairs and student services, it's around us ensuring the compliance around outcomes. So, you know, that cloakal thing in the UK is it's not just about getting students into the institution, it's about them succeeding and thriving and as being able to support them through their journey. Craig Best [00:12:37]: So there are expectations around the student support. We provide them the access to learning resources all the way through to a condition that I spend quite a lot of time on, which is condition A1, which is our access and participation. And that's about ensuring that, regardless of a student's background, they can succeed. And we address barriers in their success. And that's talking about their continuing and studying. That could be around attainment, but it also could be about progressing post degree. So typically our degrees are free four years, and you choose at 18, typically 18, what degree you want to do. So you don't do minor or major in the uk, and that's quite a big ask for students to make a decision and then once they've done their degree, they typically go into employment. Craig Best [00:13:29]: We don't necessarily have a big culture in the UK to go straight into postgraduate. What we talk is post there, so that's kind of how we look. But we've also introduced, recently the ofs have introduced something called their condition around sexual violence and harassment, which is a big thing for the sector at the moment. And that's about how do we protect the campus, what do we do in regards to when there are disclosures of sexual harassment or sexual violence and also things around freedom of speech and that. And that has been quite influential from what's been going on in the US and how do we ensure that balance of academic freedom and freedom of speech on campuses? So there's been quite a lot of new conditions or expectations that universities are tackling at the moment. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:16]: You mentioned that most university students are in your communities for three years, which is a different model than North America sees because that four year model gives a student development arc that's a bit more lengthened than what you're able to do in three years. But it also means that the three years that you do have those students every year has to be much more meaningful than if we had them over four. Can you tell us what the typical student services life cycle looks like for you for a student from admission through the day that they cross that graduation stage? Craig Best [00:14:44]: Yeah, absolutely. So I think the big thing for universities in the UK is though we do see our students as soon as they register. So at the point in which they've had their applications accepted and they start. So we typically start in the September and that ranges from a couple of weeks across institutions. But a lot of us do work pre arrival so we work with 16 year olds plus on access work. So they could be about programs of supporting people together, get their qualifications or for those that have never been to university. So those first generation students, so let's have a look at what that is. And they support, we support them through the process of applying all the way into university. Craig Best [00:15:28]: But typically the cycle is that we, we start in September. For a typical undergraduate they have normally two or three semesters. So the first semester, September to December and then we take the, the Christmas period off and then some students will have exams in the January, they'll start another semester between the January to the May March time and then they go into exams. So there's typically three semesters, some use two. But typically we run from a September to a June July time and that's their first year. And then if people are going on what we call internships or placements, they will either typically go in the June and July, either have a year out and go into employment, which is a big thing for like lots of universities in the UK or they'll go into their second year. What we are doing quite a lot is looking at that transition between that first year, you didn't know what university was, so we'll support you in and it's all new Everything from how do you deal with complaints, how do you get into clubs and societies? But what we find is that step between first year and second year, from an academic point of view, is sometimes quite a big step for students or they're going, is this the right thing? So we do quite a lot of work in the second year, typically. And then the third year of someone's degree is typically the semester period, but they have to write what we call a dissertation or a project work, if it's a typical undergraduate degree, and that's a prolonged portfolio of research and activity. Craig Best [00:17:00]: And then sprinkled across all of that is all of the opportunities from getting involved in clubs and societies to volunteering, to mentoring opportunities, to career services. And a lot of that area at the University of Manchester sits within my purview. So I'm really fortunate to see some of the really fantastic work we do to nurture our students to predominantly lead in their lives and in globally businesses. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:27]: How is student services seen by the larger UK environment in terms of the value that it offers for students? And how do university colleagues see the value of student services? Craig Best [00:17:39]: So I think that's a really interesting question and we've had a lot of debate in the sector recently around statutory duty. Is an institution responsible, responsible for the actions of their students? So when we talk about, unfortunately, suicide prevention and postvention, you know, what is our duty of care, you know, and that, that's a really big thing. So I think from a public point of view, there's a feeling that institutions should have more responsibility. And I think we, we perhaps say, yes, there is a responsibility, but these are adults that are engaging in a community and we are there to provide support. My view is student affairs, student services is absolutely the of institutions and we bring to life university strategy. We enable people to experience and live the lives and opportunities that they're wanting. So I think for me, where we see policy meets people is the best way I talk to my teams about it is the policy meets people where students potential is really nurtured and we provide the opportunities with and for students for them to achieve their goals. So I think we all see that, that, that work in that area and I think more broadly across our communities, we are seen as the bedrock of support. Craig Best [00:18:59]: We are those people that perhaps don't always shout out about what we do, but are always there. And I think COVID Pandemic really brought attention to that quiet, reserved activity that we do in the background that really makes a difference, not just to students, students, but to the whole community equipping our academic colleagues to be able to engage with different groups of students. We're seeing an increase of neurodivergence, those are scaring disabilities and that that is a big learning curve to kind of approach curriculum and support. So no, I think public would like to see more of what we do and I think that's much more of a communication and kind of what can we support with linking in with the other health services, etc. But internally I do think we are seen as an absolute neighboring engine to supporting our students and staff. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:50]: I think this leads us nicely into our theme questions for the season on the value of student affairs. So I'm going to hit those three. The first is when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? Craig Best [00:20:02]: So I have to say that I am always biased is that I see student affairs as absolutely a number of institutions and before I even came into this I was very heavily in quality assurance and typical registry was like do they do. You know, they're running around doing these nice to do events and actually when you get immersed with it, they translate policy. It's where the meeting between the two kind of discussions happen. The reality of where they see students potential being nurtured. It's where you can see the success and the engagement work happening. You, you can see that we articulate different goals for our students who perhaps are not finding a space in their curriculum or learning, but they have found their space, their identity, their people within the support that we give. So I absolutely think we are an engine, the cogs of an institution. But I have to say I am biased on the brilliant work, particularly at the university. Craig Best [00:21:01]: I am that we do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:02]: I'm hearing a lot of alignment to the mission vision values of some Canadians in student affairs work as well. So that's nice to hear that the profession is spreading its wings no matter where we are. Craig Best [00:21:12]: Absolutely. And I, and I do think there are and one thing that I found when I came to NASPA and there's a lot that we thought about, especially when I was at Moshe and we talk about it at the Academic Registrars Council, student affairs in the US is a lot more formalized and professionalized than in the uk. And even you and I talked about to be in roles that perhaps I have, you would need a doctorate degree and a PhD, and that's not necessarily the need in the UK, but I do think there's a shared skill and passion across the sectors of people that really care and really feel value in enabling and Supporting these individuals to grasp everything whilst they're there with us. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:52]: Which leads nicely into our second theme question. Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? Craig Best [00:21:59]: Life, absolutely. This is partly. It's sitting back and seeing this play out with the communities that work within our division. And I think one that really brought mine is I'm in an institution that's over 200 years old. It's an institution that has what we call high entries. So it'd probably be equivalent to the Ivy League institutions in the us We've always challenged with diversity, not because the doors are closed, it's because perhaps individuals don't see themselves in the community in which we work in. So I think last year what was really powerful me is that we, we launched something called the Black Leadership Program. And as part of that, we brought the students together and sitting and listening and hearing how students thrived during the program. Craig Best [00:22:46]: By launching societies from securing internships and supporting each other, it really showed how targeted support and community building, it can really transform the potential of individuals. And for them to say, actually, I do have an identity, I do have a space in this organization, in this community. And for me it was just another really powerful reminder about the potential of our services. Thinking differently, that importance of creating opportunities for and with students to really lead, grow and shine and lead, grow and shine is something that I really feel quite passionate about. And so, yeah, that was probably one of my highlights over the last 12 months. And it takes a unique group of people to deliver programs like this. And it's a pleasure every day seeing these pilots, these little sparks play out and then being delivered with our students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:39]: You mentioned earlier that much like North American Student affairs, uk, Student affairs has a lot of storytelling left to do in our communities. So for our third question, what do you think student affairs needs to do better to be understood and more seen in today's educational environment? Craig Best [00:23:55]: Yeah, and I think you've just took my words out of my mouth. Is the storytelling. You know, we, for so long we have been the invisible engine or the perception of. We only go to them when there's an issue or there's a problem. And we being that sense of reactive support, where actually fundamentally our biggest impact is when we do the proactive engagement with our students. And absolutely, we have to have excellent services. We have to ensure that the infrastructure is in place for students to succeed and access health services and mental health support and financial support as well. But I do think what we need to do more is Be confident on what we do, telling the stories around our impact, linking to outcomes, aligning those to the goals of the institution. Craig Best [00:24:44]: And we're talking at Manchester at the moment around service learning, community engagement. We are an institution within a regional context and our services provide such an impact to not just our students, but our community. So a lot of it is linked around storytelling. I don't think we're very good at champing our own selves and recognizing that, but I do think the pandemic was a real stepping stone to say, hang on a minute, these people are pretty core to what we do. And I think don't lose sight of that is the phrase I'll use with my teams. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:18]: You know, five years ago now that we were working with students remotely and figuring out how to get them Wi fi hotspots and food security and all those things. And I feel like we learned a lot from that. But I also agree with you that maybe we're losing sight of it a little bit. Craig Best [00:25:30]: Yeah, no, definitely. And we're facing in the UK a massive cost of living. The cost of coming to university for students in the UK is significant. The access to student loans only provides a certain amount of that. We're seeing our students working much more, looking at different ways of studying, taking on part time work. So I do think there's an absolute core essential to how do we think about and really engage in those lived experiences of our students to say, well, actually this doesn't work for them anymore. And how do we. Not from a vanity point of view, but from a visibility point of view to say it's not a bad thing coming out and talking about the support you need. Craig Best [00:26:09]: It doesn't have to be at the end, it can be very much at the beginning. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:13]: The student residence model is so different in the uk. A lot more privatized residences for students, a lot of students commuting living at home because of the housing crisis. Whereas at most North American universities we see, you know, housing that's provided on campus. And although there's of course a charge, the residence life system is internal to the institution, whereas it's mostly external in the uk, which changes your opportunity to engage with students in their residences. So lots of different things going on there. Craig Best [00:26:40]: No, absolutely. We were only talking this morning about the changing dynamics of commuting students. You know, we're Talking roughly about 20, 25% of our students in Manchester, and we're a big city, are actually looking to commute because the cost of living in our city is becoming so much. It Costs more to perhaps have your child come and live in the city than the mortgage a parent or guardian is paying for their house. So, again, there's a lot there that's playing and. And it does impact the sense of community and identity. It really challenges us to say, how do we still ensure, when We've got over 40,000 students at MAN Manchester, how do we still ensure that sense of community when actually they don't all stay in halls anymore and we can't get the residence life teams involved? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:28]: Absolutely. One thing that we talked about earlier was the admissions process, where students apply directly to a course. And so I wanted just to demystify that a little bit for our North American listeners as well. It's a very different system. We have something called ucas, which. I've said that with like the most American a possible ucas, which is UCAS or University College Admission is it system. Is that the S? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:51]: Yep. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:52]: Which is kind of like the common app in the United States. But instead of just being kind of a clearinghouse, there's actually decisions that are made through that process. And one thing that struck me as absolutely wild the first time I learned about it was that a student might not know where they're going to university until like a week or two before they're supposed to start courses, which stressed me out so badly. So can you talk a little bit about GCSEs and A levels, what those are, how they impact and how a student actually gets involved offer for their major or their course? Craig Best [00:28:22]: Absolutely. So I'll talk in them all the general sense. So not our medical degrees, because they're slightly different if you're going into one of those courses. But GCSEs are what individuals take roughly about when they're 16 years old and it's their general certificate. And that basically is your. Predominantly, we focus on that maths, English and sciences and then broader subjects such as history. And the subjects there then influence what students would then do at what we would call their. Their 16 study. Craig Best [00:28:53]: And they are typically things like what we call A levels, which are more traditional courses. So very similar to lessons, learning about something, pieces of essays and then doing. Doing the exam. And that's normally two years. So that's A levels. But we also have things called btec, which is much more practical. It doesn't mean it's a less qualification. And when they came in, that was the perceived rwits for those that are not as academically able. Craig Best [00:29:19]: Absolutely not. BTEC will be more vocational courses like engineering, mechanics and there are other courses as well. And we will accept anything across the sector and internationally. Typically when you do, when you're 16, you then go into your secondary, that secondary study piece, and that's when you start thinking about university. And then you apply as you shared is through ucas. So you would typically select five programmes from different institutions or it could be all in one university university. And you've got to get that in for the January before the September. So January, February time is the deadlines roughly. Craig Best [00:29:54]: So you submit your application to your five institutions or five courses, your personal statements. A student will need to write a personal statement. And then between that February, March time, all the way up until about July, you will be made offers from institutions and then you typically select your first offer so that first confirmed choice and then an insurance offer, the place you'll go to if actually your grades might not meet there at that time. That May, June, July time, you're also doing your exams for those, let's say A levels. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:26]: That sounds for advanced level, right? Craig Best [00:30:29]: Yes, you have as and then A level. So your first year is as and then your second year is the A level. So it's like the top up piece. You don't get your result for your A levels. And this is the bit that suddenly worries people more globally than us is until about the 14th of August, and for us we start mid September. So students will not know where they are going until their A level results are released. And that day is quite a big day within the uk. And we then go into offering people who got their qualifications the grades we expected they'll get their offers and that might be then three weeks of confirming your accommodation, mapping everything out and that's if it goes well, if unfortunately you weren't successful with your grades or actually you've got really good grades and want to go somewhere else, you go into something called confirmation and clearing and that's where you contact institutions and see if there's any availability on our courses. Craig Best [00:31:27]: And that is a really big part of our sector and particularly at the moment. So Manchester, we generally engage in it for about four or five days. And because we don't normally get quite a lot of offers or requests to come to us, but other institutions could be open to more applicants all the way up until to the registration point in September or even beyond. So yeah, a lot of our typically 18 year olds who have just got their grades about the 14th of August will hopefully know then where they're going. But they typically have about three weeks to confirm their finances, make sure They've got their accommodation and then they start studying with us. So a week after next at Manchester, about the 20th of September is when we will welcome our new students. About 6,000 students will be joining us. So yes, quite intense here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:19]: Absolutely. And you also see students who, after their general certificates or GCSEs, they can elect to leave high school at that point, which is 16 in England. And so you might have a 16 year old student who is now trying to get that B tech, that technical certificate and do something else, or they might try to start working. So it's a bit of a different environment where instead of leaving at 18, you know, you might be leaving at 16. Craig Best [00:32:42]: Yeah. And they typically go into play things like apprenticeships. So that's being able to go into paid employment in, in a profession, gaining experience whilst being paid. So yeah, it's very different model in the uk. And we've also got a big international community as well. That's a big thing for us. We have a very fixed fee for those that are from the UK, so we can't charge over, over about 9,525 or 45. But in regards to international students, all institutions can charge a fee that they feel is appropriate and therefore there are that playoff between our home students, as we recall, and our international students. Craig Best [00:33:24]: And that can also be quite a challenge for the sector. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:27]: What advice would you give North American students who are trying to either study abroad or go full time in the uk? And then the inverse advice for UK students who are going to North America for the university experience? Craig Best [00:33:39]: Yes. So I think for students considering to come to the uk, ask a lot of questions, get online, talk to people at an institution that you're particularly interested in. A lot of it is around how you feel within that community, what city you would like to go to, think about the broader experiences. And then the course obviously is important, but I think that's the really big piece that me. Because if you are 18, thinking to come to the UK you do have to make a choice, you have to be like, I'm going to study law, I'm going to study English. But I think being able to come over and do a semester. Absolutely. Seeing culture in a different way is really important. Craig Best [00:34:22]: And I think for the UK students going to particularly the US is have your eyes open. It's absolutely different, but there's a lot to learn there. I think typically UK domiciled students don't necessarily engage in international activities as much as others because there's a perception it's better to be in the uk, that's the courses they are familiar with. But I do think for me would be get out, ask questions, get on social media, there's so much information out there, but find the place that fits for you. If the city or the community doesn't work for you, even if the course is great, it's not going to be the experience that you're looking for. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:59]: Can you talk a little bit about non traditional students in the UK and how you might access university if you're over 25 and wanted to take a different route? Craig Best [00:35:07]: Yeah. So I think what's great about the university sector in the UK is there's so many different universities. So we have places like the Open University that deliver courses online part time, what we call stackable. So they can kind of do one unit drop off, come back again and that online piece really works for those that are not your typical 18 to 21 year olds and you see a lot of mature, we call them matures, anyone over 25 we be classed as a mature student. That's been the big thing with places like the Open University and other universities in the sector. Typically Manchester is a full time programs and that's where we currently are. That doesn't mean we're not looking at part time and courses that you can drop in and drop out of. But I do think it's finding the institutions that work for your lifestyle the way you want to study. Craig Best [00:35:58]: But it is typically everybody for an undergraduate degree would go through ucas for postgraduate. So that's the, the what we would call the Level 7 qualifications. So the most detailed skills. There's a lot of opportunity there. Typically they aren't always full time. We're looking at what we call cpd so the professional development programs and I do think in the UK we have something called the lifelong learning entitlement. So that's something being driven by the government which basically says any individual under 60 gets allocated a loan pot that they could use and that doesn't have to always be your three year traditional course. So can you, you don't just apply for that 9,000, you could spend £2,000 on a unit or some credits at one place and then go somewhere else. Craig Best [00:36:45]: So there's a lot more opportunities coming up over the next few years for those that are post 25. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:51]: Greg, anything else that you'd love our listeners to know or learn about UK student services? Craig Best [00:36:56]: So I think the one thing that it came out from when I went to naspa, while I absolutely really respect, respected and found in awe was this ability to formalize and professionalize the activities that are being delivered and that desire to research and enhance the expertise in practice blew me away and inspired me to go off and do my own research in there. What I think I reflect on that that is something that listeners could think about is how the UK looks at the spread of those divisions and activities. We aren't just contained into one area, we are spread spread across student affairs, academic affairs, enrollment and making those connections on how different services hand off or engage, I think is the bit that I would really recommend listeners to hear because understanding how outreach and access pre arrival feeds into financial support and then all the way through to the curriculum development really enhances our colleagues in the uk. Does it make it easier to because you can't be an expert in everything, but you do get a very rounded view on the experience of our learners. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:09]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:15]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in naspa. As you heard in last week's episode, one of the big updates that has happened on the NASPA website is that we have a brand new new Policy Hub on the NASPA website. The Policy Hub is an amazing resource for you to be able to stay on top of things that are happening across the United States that impact higher education in many different ways on the NASPA website. If you go under Key Initiatives and click on Policy Resource Hub, you will find this valuable resource. The Hub consists of a compilation of policy research, coalition work and resources from naspa, other associations, nonprofit organizations and think tanks with expertise in various areas of higher education. This hub is based on input from staff, organizational partners and members. And through this, NASPA has curated this centralized resource to include policy trackers, articles, fact sheets, legislative summaries and informational videos that I outline state and federal legislative and policy changes for student affairs professionals. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:28]: This resource is only available to current NASPA members. So as I said, this is an amazing resource that will help you to be able to stay on top of things and see the relevance of these changes in the work that you're doing on a daily basis. I highly encourage you to check it out for yourself and take advantage of this this amazing resource The European Conference for Student affairs and Services is coming up November 12th through 14th in Porto, Portugal. This is the seventh annual European conferences for Student affairs and Services and it's co hosted by NASPA and Ayuka in Porto, Portugal. The European Conferences for Student affairs and Services gives student services professionals a platform to discuss innovative programs, practices, practices, models and trends in student affairs. All student affairs professionals are invited to join others in Porto, Portugal for an amazing opportunity to learn and grow from people around the world. If this professional development opportunity sounds like something that you want to take advantage of, Remember it is November 12th through 14th in Porto, Portugal and you can find out more on the NASPA website. There's a brand new issue of the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education that's now available for for NASA members, this journal publishes scholarship that centers around gender based experiences of students, faculty and staff while examining oppression including but not limited to patriarchy, sexism, trans oppression and CIS normativity as they intersect with other systems of domination. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:05]: The journal is particularly interested in manuscripts that not only focus on gender based on a gender based group, but also also critically interrogate the ways in which gender has been used as a construct to limit opportunities to shape outcomes and experiences. The journal publishes high quality and rigorous scholarship can be used by all of you, can be used by you in the work that you're doing on a daily basis. You can access this journal as a part of your membership in NASPA by going to the NASPA website under Publications. Click on Journal Journals and you can access the journal there. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the Association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back each week. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:19]: We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:04]: Chris, thank you so much as always, for bringing us all the news about what's going on in and around naspa. And, Craig, we've reached our Lightning Round. I've got our traditional seven lightning round questions for you in about 90 seconds. Ready to rock? Craig Best [00:43:19]: I am. Ready to go. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:20]: All right, number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Craig Best [00:43:25]: Simply the best, because my surname's Best Classic. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:28]: I love it. Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Craig Best [00:43:32]: I wanted to be a policeman. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:34]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Craig Best [00:43:37]: I would say someone called April McMahon, who's our previous Vice President for Teaching and Learning at the University of Manchester. She's just set down, but she is absolutely inspirational. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:48]: Number four, your essential student affairs read. Craig Best [00:43:50]: In the uk, that would be wonky. So that's wonk H e at number. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:54]: Five, the best TV show. You've been binging late lately. Craig Best [00:43:57]: Me and my partner are currently obsessed with Wednesday on Netflix. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:01]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Craig Best [00:44:04]: That's really interesting. I would say it would be Stories of a CEO. I listened to quite a lot of audibles, so John Boyne is my audible, but Stories of CEO. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:16]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Craig Best [00:44:19]: I would say massive shout out to anyone that is heading off to the NASCAR conference that is from an international institution. It is an absolutely brilliant opportunity to engage in wider conversations and personal shout out will be to my partner who tolerates everything I do. So huge shout out to Sam, who works in mental health but within our social services in the uk. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:42]: And if you're interested in a conference this fall, in November, the NASPA International Symposium will be taking place in Portugal. So if your institution has travel budget to allow you to do something a little bit different, or if you want to learn about student services that are less US centric, it's a really great opportunity to head to a warmer climate in November. Craig, it's been an absolutely educational conversation with you today. I love learning from you and I hope our listeners did as well. If they would like to reach you, how can they find you? Craig Best [00:45:09]: So I would say just drop me a message on LinkedIn. So it's Craig Best, or you can send me an email at. Craig Bestanchester ac. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:19]: Craig, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Craig Best [00:45:22]: Yeah, thank you so much Jill. It's been an absolute pleasure and thank you for your interest. Invite. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:30]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@sa voicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your top and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:00]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint. Your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

10/2/25 • 46:28

If you're searching for inspiration and actionable insights on leadership in higher education, you'll want to tune in to the latest episode featuring Dr. Jhenai Chandler, hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. This engaging conversation shines a light on the complexity of change management and the importance of authentic leadership through times of uncertainty. One major theme that emerges from their discussion is the necessity of adaptability in the ever-evolving landscape of student affairs. Dr. Chandler shares her personal experiences navigating institutional shifts, emphasizing that flexibility and open communication are key to both individual growth and organizational success. She discusses how leaders who prioritize empathy and transparency foster environments where innovation isn't just encouraged—it thrives. Another powerful topic is the need for intentional mentorship and community-building. Dr. Chandler highlights how finding and being a mentor can propel professional development in meaningful ways. She stresses that mentorship doesn't have to be formalized; often, those small, consistent connections spark the greatest impact. Listeners are reminded that building a supportive professional network sharpens resilience, especially when facing challenges unique to the higher education sector. The conversation doesn't shy away from discussing the personal side of leadership either. Dr. Chandler is candid about the importance of self-care and boundary-setting, particularly for those who often take on invisible labor within their institutions. She encourages embracing humanity within the professional sphere—celebrating wins, learning from setbacks, and bringing your whole self to work. Rounding out the episode, the hosts and Dr. Chandler offer practical advice for emerging leaders. They underscore the value of continual learning and the importance of staying true to your values, even amidst external pressures. From candid anecdotes to strategic insights, this episode is packed with wisdom that will resonate with higher education professionals at every stage of their journey. If you're ready to be inspired and energized, don't miss this insightful episode! The perspectives shared by Dr. Chandler, and Dr. Creighton, will leave you with actionable strategies and a renewed sense of purpose. Whether you're a seasoned administrator or just starting your career, this dynamic conversation is sure to spark new ideas and meaningful reflection. Tune in and join the dialogue today!   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field Host welcome to season 13 of SA Voices from the Field. This season is on the Value of Student affairs and I'm thrilled to open this season with Dr. Janae Chandler, who currently serves as the Vice President of Research and Policy for Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:42]: That's us. Here at naspa, she's leading efforts to advance student success and equity through research driven policies. Previously, Dr. Chandler was Senior Director of College Completion Policy at TCUS, or the Institute for College Access and Success, where she oversaw the organization's advocacy and policy strategy aimed at improving college completion rates. Her work focused on enhancing institutional capacity to support student success, collaborating with state and federal policymakers, industry leaders and researchers to promote policies that advance equity in higher ed. Before joining TCUS, Dr. Chandler was a leader of Post Secondary Transitions at Education Strategy Group, where she worked with state and regional policymakers to improve advising practices, early post secondary opportunities, and mathematics pathways. She also led business development in college and career advising, ensuring that advising systems address the holistic needs of all students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:30]: As the Inaugural Director of the Florida Caribbean Louis Stokes Regional center of Excellence, Dr. Chandler conducted research to assess the impact of growth mindset interventions on STEM student success. Dr. Chandler began her career in advising at Tallahassee Community College, later holding leadership roles with both the Florida College System and the State University system. As a first gen college graduate and former parenting student, she's deeply committed to improving access to higher education and creating support systems that promote the success of diverse student populations. Dr. Chan Chandler holds an Associate of Arts degree from Florida A and M University, a Bachelor of Science in Food and Nutrition Sciences, a Master of Science in Leadership from nova, a Master of Science in Leadership from NOVA Southeastern university, and a PhD in higher education Policy from Florida State University. Janae, welcome to Essay Voices. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:02:19]: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:22]: It is season 13, the value of the Student affairs profession. I can't think of a better time to be having this conversation and for our NASPA squad to be meeting you. You've been with NASP. I think it's just about a year now. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:02:34]: Yeah, August 19th made a year. So I just hit my what we call NASPiversary Happy NASPiversary. Yes, yes. It was a great day and I'm really proud to be a part of this association in supporting the professionals who just are doing phenomenal work, phenomenal work on campuses across the. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:53]: You are one of our newest, I think actually the newest executive team member for NASPA on staff serving in the role of VP for policy and advocacy and research, taking over Amelia Parnell' old seat actually. So we know that you're working really hard to fill those shoes at a really challenging policy time. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got to naspa? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:03:15]: Yes. So I got to naspa. Really. I call it like a shoot my shot moment to be quite honest. I worked at TCAS as the Senior director for College Completion Policy where I oversaw all of this federal advocacy work related to college completion. And I work with members of Congress to work on designing and implementing federal policies that thought about the holistic needs of students. And even though I wasn't from the traditional federal policy landscape, one value that I brought to that work is I always thought about the practitioner. I always thought about their voices are missing in this work. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:03:52]: We're designing things and we're not thinking about how this looks on campus or how students experience it. And so I was very proud to be a bridge between the practitioner and the policymaker. And so when I saw this opportunity come up at naspa, I thought it would just be a phenomenon, phenomenal experience to work with student affairs professionals and now bringing policy to our environment a little bit more and helping us be forward thinking about how we get to inform and shape policy. And so that decision, I didn't know what the climate was going to be. I didn't realize what we were going to be experiencing in 2025. But it really affirms my decision to come to NASPA. And I remember being at tables on campuses and being a part of policy conversations and not feel feeling equipped or empowered enough to engage. And that's what I want to dismantle. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:04:46]: I want student affairs professionals to be able to engage in policy conversations and research conversations. And so I'm really excited to build our members toolkit more in these arenas. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:57]: You mentioned you come from TCUs. Can you tell us a little bit about what that is and what TICUS does for higher ed? I believe it stands for the Institute for College Access and Success. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:05:07]: Yes, correct. And so in the policy arena you'll have intermediaries or research think takes that really dive deep into research on particular topics. They are also a primary resource for state and federal policymakers and staffers to get information from. And we also provided a lot of advocacy through webinars, publications, obviously scholarly engagement. And so it was really an organization to shape the policy field around higher education and advancing equity and access for students and institutions. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:41]: That background is going to be so valuable for naspa, especially as we're facing a really unique policy environment right now. I know it's kind of difficult to say, given that the policy world is what I would call a bit kind of unstable almost at the moment. What are we doing at NASPA right now? And I say that internally as a member of the Public Policy Division, but also as a person who's just kind of a bit of a policy nerd and knowing that we're seeing funky impacts that we didn't necessarily see even a year ago. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:06:09]: I'm so proud to say that our team has gone all in on policy research right now. We have stayed tuned in to all of the happenings. We have trackers, State Policy Trackers, Federal Policy Trackers, and we've made that all available to NASPA members for free. And we've created a centralized Policy Resource hub where members can review breakdowns and policy analyses about what's happening in the landscape and what it means for them in their roles and for their campuses. And so we have invested a ton of resources and time to make sure that NASPA members have real time, current, relevant and accurate information, which the accurate part for me is so valuable and important because there's so much noise and it's coming from so many places, you have no idea what source to trust. But I believe NASPA is a trusted source for not just NASPA members, but the broader higher education field. And so I'm really excited to partner with the Public Policy Division to host events. We've had a number of briefings related to the first 100 days phase of this new administration. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:07:16]: We've done follow ups related to the different SCOTUS decisions that have rolled out. And so I want our members to know that we're continuing to do high quality research about how to best support our students, while we're also investing a lot of our time and energy on policy research as well and providing tools and resources. And so those updates can be found in our weekly update. So scroll past some of the things that you might not want to attend and just pay attention to the policy update. We try to include something every week. And we also have the Policy Hub, which you can Access online from naspa.org under Key Initiatives. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:54]: I think one of the things that's important for our NASPA members to understand is that NASPA isn't at the moment making policy stances so much as it is trying to figure out and help us navigate what to do with the policies that are coming down. And that's an interesting place because we've historically advocated in some ways or been trying to work with the Department, that means the Department of Education historically. And because the landscape is different, I think right now we're focusing on, okay, so these policies have happened, now what do we do about them? Because as a lot of us are public servants and so we're in a position where we are trying to implement as public administrators rather than kind of change things differently. It's kind of an interesting space for us to be in and maybe different than one that we're used to being in. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:08:38]: Yeah, and my approach has been action oriented. We can sign it, we can put out statements and like say that we are upset about something. But I want you to to read a statement or read something and say, I'm getting strategy out of it. I'm getting tools to be able to do my job better within this current landscape. And so although NASPA is not putting out traditional statements in this time, what we are doing is we're actively engaged in coalitions. So there are a number of policy coalitions. And this might be a really cool teachable moment right now for our listeners because what they don't teach you in the Schoolhouse Rock version of like policy development is that they're players in coalition coalition. So like TCUS was a part of a coalition and IHEP Institute for Higher Education Policy, naspa, all of the associations, some of those intermediaries and think tanks, we come together and we think about how to collectively push Congress, how to collectively take action on some sort of issue that's coming up in the field. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:09:39]: So we're actively engaged in a number of coalitions. So when you see today's student coalition and they're talking about college affordability and student basic needs, NASA is a part of that. And we sign on to coalition letters. And so you can find the coalition letters that NASPA has signed on to recently on naspa.org under our policy section. And so we are committed to action oriented advocacy in that way. For instance, we are working with our partners at the Fair Election Center. So I don't know if many people realize, but NASPA also is a partner in the Voter Friendly Campus Initiative and we help institutions prepare students for civic engagement. And obviously there's been new guidance around how federal work studies should no longer be used for those types of opportunities. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:10:29]: And so we're currently putting out a statement on how this is disappointing and it goes against everything that higher education is about when it comes to student development. However, within that same document, here are resources on how you can continue to help your students engage in different civic opportunities. Here are funding opportunities, things of that nature. I want people to have tools to be actionable and impactful. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:55]: I really appreciate this approach because it's one thing to say, here's the perspective that we're bringing, but it's a whole other to say here's what you can do about it. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:11:02]: I really want folks to know what to do about it. Because think about it, we're also impacted personally by everything that's happening. And it's overwhelming. It's like sometimes I have to turn off the news as a mom of children who have to navigate this space, and it's like I don't know what to do sometimes. And so I want to make sure that we can help be a filter in a funnel for our members in. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:25]: The field and fully acknowledging that a lot of us feel some type of way about a lot of these changes. But some of those feelings are positive, some of them are fearful, some of them are frustrated. We're kind of all over the map as a profession as to how we're receiving all of these changes. But I did want to ask you what's kind of that hot button issue that you see coming forward from the Hill right now? Because we've gone through waves and iterations of it being Title IX or it being federal financial aid or EDI initiatives, what have you. The list has been long and the waves have come pretty quickly. What are we seeing now on the horizon? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:11:59]: I'm paying attention to all of it. But my immediate reaction is if we cannot address college affordability, we may not have students on our campuses. So I am very sensitive to the implications of, do I have to say it? The one big beautiful bill. There's so much in there around federal financial aid that I'm concerned for students who, who I share similar backgrounds with, who I was a Pell student, I came from a low income area and federal financial aid was the way for me, plus scholarships, because Pell is not enough. But there are some new rollouts on how the order in which aid can be applied. And so I also think about the student loan repayment restructures that's happening in there. And so for some of us who go into nonprofit work, or who work on campuses, this can create challenge. Can I do my purpose work and pay my bills and pay my student loans? And so I'm again concerned about the field and what these implications may mean for many student affairs professionals, educators, just across the board. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:13:03]: There's no protection if you lose your job. There's some hardship things that are included in that package that will have real implications for people. And so I really think about the root, which is the college affordability piece right now, because we need to have students on our campuses and in our classrooms, but if they can't afford to be there, some of us may not be around. I don't mean to be so stark about it, but it's just a real reality of although we're not student affairs professionals, we also have to pay attention to college affordability because even if a student gets onto our campus, they will experience other financial hardships or unexpected emergencies where we may lose them. And so it all ties into retention and student success. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:45]: You mentioned a couple of things related to college affordability in terms of the layering of the application of federal financial aid and student loans and parent plus loans and those types of things. But the student loan forgiveness repayment plans that a lot of student affairs professionals are frankly relying on in order to stay in the field. Do you have any commentary or brief education that you can give us in these areas? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:14:08]: As of right now, I've encouraged people who I've come in contact with to document, document, document. This is another issue that we're having with the reduction in force, is that the customer service is a challenge right now. There's not clarity on what, what the next steps are or what are the policies and procedures to get to PSLF and to make sure that when is your time that you're able to get the credit for the time that you are owed or allowed based on your years of experience. And even within my household, I'll just go personally, two public servants, two different levels of correspondence right now about it. And so there's just no clarity. And so if you can do your best to document and keep track of your records, I think it's really important. And I've just really been paying attention to the small attacks to pslf. And so just stay current on what's happening and continue to document and submit your employment verification as often as possible. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:15:08]: That's what I'm trying to do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:09]: And PSLF is Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, a hard acronym for me to say for some reason. So in my head, always I have to say, pumpkin Spice Latte forgiveness and it's so fun fact for our listeners to me with Pumpkin Spice latte Forgive me. I love that it's a heavy topic, right, Because a lot of people's futures are going to be dictated by what guidance comes out around PSLF and what will be counted towards service and what won't. We'd like to strongly believe that if you're providing public service to a university that you know, it's a pretty clearly within the guidelines of forgiveness or if you're working at 501c3 nonprofit organization. But because of that lack of clarity, all we can do right now is make sure that our documents are all aligned, right? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:15:51]: Absolutely. And a lot of the changes that we seen proposed in let's say the one big beautiful bill again, NASPA has also signed on to a coalition letter calling for more capacity at the department to be able to carry out these things. And we're also in support of saying let's pause on implementation until we can give clarity to the students, families as well as the institutions who are being implicated in these particular changes. But like right now, it's just a lack of clarity. But we have been very vocal in calling out for a need for greater capacity and time for clarity. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:26]: Let's also visit that component about the layering of how federal aid is applied. What can you teach us there? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:16:31]: Goodness. What I will say is this financial aid does a phenomenal job at making sure students are able to maximize their awards and students have been able to cover textbooks, housing, other approved expenses so that they can remain in college and enrolled. And so some of the new shifts and changes, it may not give students the best reach with their financial aid packages or their scholarship. And so I think about my personal experience. My kid went to on campus childcare that was tacked onto my bill every semester. And I don't know if a student in my situation now or with a new policy will be able to afford tuition as well as on campus childcare. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:16]: One thing that we introduced you with was that you're a formerly parenting student, meaning that you had a young child while you were attending full time university. Can you talk to us about how student affairs impacted your journey given that you were juggling these two very intensive roles? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:17:30]: Oh my gosh, yes. It's student parent month too in September. And so this is a really great question and I was sharing with you earlier. I've just been really emotional this month reading all of the new briefs and reports around student parenting month because that very kid is now applying to Colleges, and it's so exciting. And none of that would have been possible without Student Affairs. I was able to work on campus and I did not have federal work study. I had an actual job on campus. And that is what Student affairs is about. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:18:02]: It's like seeing the need having structures in place to make sure students are successful. And so I was on my way to going to be a scientist. And working in advising was transformative for me. It was the strangest job because I was the formal advisor for my peers and I was trusted. I was trusted with data. I was FERPA trained, all of the things. And it catapulted my career in a way that I couldn't imagine. And I was able to make a difference based on my experience. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:18:32]: I was able to say, childcare closes at 4:30, the organic chemistry 2 lab starts at 4. There's no way I could make that. And then having to navigate different challenges to finish my degree, to take that course at the local community college. But Student affairs positioned me to be able to work on campus, not have to drive across town to go to daycare, drop off, go to work, go to class. I was also supported when I had tough times, when I was just emotionally drained, when I was exhausted, there were people on campus who I could go to for whether it was mental health support, whether it was counseling, or just to open their fridge and get a snack, because I just needed a moment. And I did that for my students when the tables were turned. But that would not have been possible if we did not have access to high quality and affordable childcare that was offered through Florida State University's Office of Housing and Residential Life. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:29]: I think this transitions us nicely into our theme questions for the season. And like our previous seasons, we've got three questions on the theme of on the value of Student affairs and I am pleased to introduce those now. So, Janae, our first question for the season is when you think about the value of Student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:19:49]: When I think about the value of Student affairs, the first thing that comes to mind is how it shapes the student experience beyond the classroom. As someone from the inner city in Jersey City, New Jersey, I didn't really travel much. A lot of my exposure came through the out of classrooms experiences that Student affairs offered. It's where I got to meet people from different states, or even I met people from New Jersey that were from different areas. And that was pretty cool for me as well. Sociology talks about like social norms in the classroom, but I was able to apply it in different settings, as I met people through campus recreation and different ways that I engaged on campus. And so whether it's learning to lead through different leadership programs, building community, and, like, just figuring out how to navigate life, that's what student affairs does. And a lot of those traits that you learn from those experiences are what employers want. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:20:43]: They want someone who's collaborative, that knows how to work with people from different backgrounds, who can foster community in the workplace, particularly now in, like, a virtual environment. Can you lead a team? Can you navigate conflict? Those are all things that I learned through various programs and opportunities. And it's also what I see right now happening. And so we just have to do a better job of quantifying that with data and showing how these connect to employer expectations. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:13]: So, going to our second question, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:21:20]: I really, again, think about my personal experience and how the student affairs professionals helped me navigate my academic challenges and my personal challenges or circumstance that I was navigating. Because of their support and their help, my sister was able to go to college. My husband was able to graduate college. During that time, he was a student parent as well at the local community college. My mom just went to community college during the pandemic and is now a successful nurse. So the work that was invested in me, me help change a family dynamic. And so I think about the student affairs professionals at community colleges, which is where my background is. I spent most of my higher education professional work at community colleges, and that's where I see the magic happen as well. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:22:10]: Those students come from diverse backgrounds, diverse academic levels, different challenges, different lived experiences, but they're driven and their worlds could be shifted based on the interactions with campus staff and administrators. But I always see student affairs professionals wrap their their arms around them and support them in ways that's just transformative, similarly to my story. And so when I see people show up on a community college campus and they take advantage of all of the support, and then their life stories are changed, like, that's just where student affairs just lights up my heart. And the impact is just undeniable. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:49]: I think for a long time, the student affairs profession has kind of pejoratively said, my own parent doesn't understand what I do for work. And I think that is still true across a lot of college campuses with our colleagues. And so our third question for the season's theme is, what do you think student affairs needs to do better to be understood and better seen in today's educational environment. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:23:10]: We have got to do a better job of telling our story and telling our story in a way that resonates with the public, that resonates with the folks at home at the kitchen table. And we were very smart, we're very bright people. We're into scholarship. But we have to be able to talk directly to the students and the families that we need on our campuses and that we want to support. But we also have to be able to translate our language and what we're trying to articulate to employers, to policymakers so that they can understand the value of student affairs in higher education. And so that's why I love coming from the outside into nasp is because I can help translate what we're trying to communicate in a way that resonates with policymakers and uses their language. And so you know how we talk about code switching, we have to learn how to code switch around our communication. When we're doing a scholarly paper, that's one thing, do that. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:24:08]: But now that you're talking in front of a policymaker, you need to be quick, succinct, and to the point, right? And when you're talking to students and families and communities, we need to be able to articulate why what we do matters. And so the communication is one piece. The other piece is, again, the data and assessment to be able to tell our story and share the value. I think that is so critical because if you think about it, when you go shopping for, like, an appliance, you're like, which one is most efficient on energy? Which machine is going to stretch my laundry detergent a little bit more? Right? Like, you want the most most for your time and that investment that you're going to make. And so we have to do the same thing. We offer these programs. Here's what the outcomes are for the students who engage in this program. Our employer partnerships have led to X, Y and Z. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:24:59]: Like, we need to be able to do that a little bit more. But for the most part, we've been people who do this work because we love it and we enjoy it, and that's great. But it's like, now we have to make sure we have to do the assessment to be able to tell our story and also not be afraid of what the data may tell us. So sometimes I think we avoid assessment in data collection because we're a little afraid of what it might tell us. But it's an opportunity. It's not a ding. It's an opportunity for enhancement, improvement, to be able to reallocate resources into something that's working for us. And so that's what I would say. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:25:36]: Data collection and telling our story in a way that resonates with all audiences. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:41]: You mentioned, you know, being able to bring the perspective of coming from the outside in. Is there any language that we use internally in student affairs that you think that we could frame differently for the outside world to help us be better understood, or any pro tips on making that switch from understanding ourselves internally to being able to share that more outward facing? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:26:00]: There's a lot there. There's a lot of opportunity. There's a lot of opportunity. But I think it's the venue, it's the venues that we use to advertise, to market and to communicate and to share information. One of the things that I prioritized in my time at T is was to get with faculty. Like, if I read a journal article and I'm like, wow, these are amazing outcomes from this study. I would make sure I took their report with them, collaborated with them, turned it into a policy brief with, as recommendations for, like, policymakers. And so it's just making sure that we get the information that we know. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:26:36]: We know a lot about our field, we know a lot about our students, but we're talking to each other. And so how do we make sure that we're using different venues and platforms to be able to communicate our work? So, essentially, if you're doing a lot of quality research and you're published in journals, that's great. Continue to do those things because it's necessary. But make sure you have a strategy on how you are going to maybe get this into the campus paper first, maybe, right. And then next get it into the local paper, maybe diverse issues in higher ed. Just making sure that you're thinking outside of the box of where to share our insight to be able to shape and move the field. And so to me, that would be my number one recommendation, is to make sure that whatever you're doing from a scholarly, scholarly perspective that is translated in different venues and platforms that different audiences are viewing. And so this podcast, for an example, is one that a family could listen to and learn about student affairs in a way that's just simple and clear. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:27:34]: And we could do that from our work and our research too. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:37]: Anything that you're researching right now that. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:27:38]: You want to highlight, we're doing so many cool things. I'll share a few things. Some professional, some personal. So professionally at naspa, what we're doing is we're looking at college affordability in a sense of emergency aid, student employment, working with some potential partners on student financial wellness and how we can equip institutions to help students think about their financial health and well being. We just partnered with TIAA to award five institutions micro grants to be able to give students $500 if they experience an unexpected emergency. So we want to be able to continue to work to help students face the financial challenges to persist through their college. I'm also intrigued by this concept of secondary stress. A number of NASA members have already published articles about it and again I'm looking to like contact them and work with them on like how to do briefs and have different work around it. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:28:36]: Because right now, and I've talked, we talked about this earlier in the podcast around how the weight of the environment is impacting us personally and we still have to show up for work, but then we also have to engage with students on the challenges that they're experiencing. So how do we help not only the staff navigate navigate secondary stress, but how do we help VPs and leaders identify it early and have preventative measures in place so that staff can be supported before burnout? So I'm really intrigued by that personally. I have just started doing some blogging and videos, vlogging I guess, content videos. I'm new to the whole TikTok world, but about my parenting journey with autism and so being able to help families and moms who have children with autism to give them some hope. We're 12 and a half years into that journey and so it's really cool to like look at new studies, look at new research and practices and kind of connect them to what our lived experience was and just sharing that out for for the world and for moms. Really? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:41]: Are you willing to share your TikTok handle? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:29:43]: Yeah, it's called Reclaiming My Stride. All one word. Reclaiming my stride. Stride because I'm a runner. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:48]: Janae, is there anything else you'd like our NASPA membership to know about you as you've just passed your one year NASPiversary? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:29:54]: I am here to really support NASPA and NASA members with current research, high quality research policy work to empower them to do their jobs to the best of their ability, to support their students in a way that's meaningful and purposeful. I want each NASA member and every listener who's out on the field to know that I am here to support them. Deeply appreciative and full of gratitude for this field because I have personally been impacted. My family has benefited as well and so whatever it is that I can do from my sphere of influence in my area of expertise. I would love to hear from them about that again. I have continuously made sure Practitioner Voice was centered in my work and that's something that I want to continue. And I'm just so excited to be here. It's just been a great organization. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:30:48]: And I will also say one thing that's different about NASA that I haven't experienced in a lot of other places. Well, this is my first membership association too though, so maybe that's what it is. But NASA prioritizes members like, I mean to the point where I used to say like what is happening right now, but it's really like what our members would need, what our members would think, what our members like. It is unreal. Like, I mean it's real because it happens, but it's something that I have not seen a lot in different avenues or arenas is like really caring about its members. And NASPA does that. And I really feel good to be at a place that prioritizes their members and what's best for them. And so I'm really, really excited to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:31]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:37]: Hey Joe, thanks so much. Welcome back to the NASPA world. And there's a ton of things happening, happening in naspa. One of the biggest things right now that I want you to do is put on your calendar October 1st. The annual conference registration and housing will be open on October 1st. You don't want to miss out on the best prices as well as the hotels that are closest to all the action. So you want to be able to get into the members only hub and be able to register for the conference, register for housing and be ready for an amazing time this coming spring. The 2026 NASPA elections are open and nominations are due on October 22, 2025. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:18]: Currently, nominations are open for Board Chair Elect, Regional Directors elect and Knowledge Community Chair and Co Chair elect positions. You can follow the nomination process and candidate selection online and as a member of naspa, you'll be invited to participate in the election that will Open open on January 14th. I encourage you if you are looking to take that next step in considering how you want to lead within the association, to consider running for a position and be able to nominate yourself or others for positions because we need volunteer leaders to be able to help our association to grow and thrive in the future. I'm going to tell you about a new book available in the NASPA Publication section on the NASPA website called Small and Mighty Student affairs at Small Colleges and Universities by Carolyn Livingston, Krista Porter and Thomas Shanley Small and Mighty Student affairs at Small Colleges and Universities explores critical opportunities and challenges at higher education institutions with fewer than 5,000 students. Written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, this comprehensive text covers a range of topics relevant to higher education and student affairs while providing detailed insights and actions to take for, in support of and alongside students at small colleges and universities. Thriving in the small college culture requires flexibility, collaboration and the ability to shift rapidly within the changing environment of higher education. Small and Mighty offers thoughtful strategies and insights to help student affairs professionals identify innovative solutions to some of the most pressing issues facing small colleges and universities. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:08]: The 2026 NASPA Excellence Awards are also open and nominations close on October 1, 2025. Through the NASPA Excellence Award, you can recognize the professionals transforming higher education through exceptional programs, innovative services, and effective administration. NASPA Excellence Awards cover 12 categories crucial to the growth of the profession. You can nominate a colleague or two your colleagues for an excellent award today. You can go to the NASPA website for more information. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:59]: Whether it's it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:02]: Chris, thank you so much for bringing us back to our very first NASPA World segment of the season. Always great to get the update on what's going on in and around naspa and Janae, we have reached our lightning round. I have seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:36:18]: Ooh. Okay. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:19]: All right, question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:36:24]: I don't know the title of the song, but it's gonna feel like the man when I walk through. I think it's like Rich Homie Kwan. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:30]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:36:34]: A business owner. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:35]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:36:38]: One that I know because I have a lot in my head. I would say. Okay, okay, okay, okay. So I actually follow, like, CEOs and presidents online of different companies, and I use them as my mentors. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:51]: Number four, your essential Student affairs read. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:36:54]: The Green book, the Student Development Theory book. I call it my Student affairs Bible, Student Development in College Theory, Research and Practice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:01]: We've had that as a lot of people's Essential Student affairs read. And for those listening, Janae just pulled it right off the shelf. It's great. Number five, the best TV show you've. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:37:09]: Binged lately, forever on Netflix. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:12]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:37:16]: Definitely Mel Robbins. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:17]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:37:21]: My family, my husband and my kids, they're so supportive. This role requires a lot of time and travel, and they've just been great at being support and just playing their part. Oh, definitely. My family. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]: Janae, it's been such a pleasure to get to know you a bit better and to introduce you to our NASPA membership. If anyone would like to get ahold of you after this episode airs, how can they find you? Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:37:43]: Jchandlerspa.org is the best way to find me. LinkedIn. I'm super active on LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:51]: And that's Janae. J H E N A I Chandler, like the character from Friends. Or you can also find you on TikTok. Say that one for us again. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:37:59]: Reclaiming my stride. But I also just started a Instagram because NASA is super active on Instagram, like all the regions and divisions, and so it's just Dr. Janae, Dr. J H E N A I All one word. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:12]: Thank you so much, Janae, for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:38:14]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:20]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We we continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@savoicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:50]: It really does help other student affairs professionals the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

9/25/25 • 39:18

The world of higher education is constantly evolving, and with each shift comes new challenges and opportunities for those working in student affairs. The latest season of the podcast, Student Affairs Voices from the Field, brilliantly captures this dynamic landscape, offering a blend of professional wisdom, personal stories, and inspiration for everyone in the field—from newcomers to seasoned professionals. Kicking off its highly anticipated thirteenth season, hosts Dr. Jill Creighton, Dr. Christopher Lewis, and invite listeners on a journey back to the roots of what makes student affairs so impactful. Titled "The Value of Student Affairs," this season promises to shine a spotlight on the essential role that student affairs practitioners play in shaping campuses, supporting students, and enhancing the overall higher education experience. Right from the opener, the co-hosts set an inviting and reflective tone. They recall how this project began during pandemic lockdowns and acknowledge the significant shifts they've witnessed in higher education since then. The podcast is not only celebrating over five years and nearly 200 episodes, but is also leveraging this milestone to dig deeply into the heart of what makes student affairs professionals invaluable. What can listeners expect from Season 13? The hosts have structured the season around three core questions: When you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first, and why? Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? What does student affairs need to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? Through these guiding questions and interviews with diverse voices from across the field, the podcast explores the unique challenges currently facing higher education—like measuring value in an era of rising costs and institutional change. More importantly, it highlights the powerful and sometimes overlooked stories of how student affairs professionals advocate for students, build inclusive communities, and adapt through periods of instability. This season isn't just for established leaders. The hosts actively invite grad students, early-career professionals, and those considering student affairs work to add their voices and stories. Their message is clear: everyone's journey and perspective bring value to the profession. If you're looking for authentic, thoughtful, and hopeful discussions on what it means to work in student affairs today, this podcast is for you. Tune in each week, and join a community committed to supporting, learning, and growing together in the ever-changing world of higher education. --------------------------------- Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:26]: Happy September, Chris. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:28]: Happy September to you too. It's a new year for all of us in higher ed, but and it's also it's just nice to be in. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:36]: Fall for our friends on the semester system. I've been loving watching your move in day pics and it's just such a joyful time for higher ed. For friends on the quarter system, I hope your move in processes go really smoothly this year. But we're back for what is now season 13 of SA Voices from the Field. Chris We've been doing this show now for we're entering year five, a little over year five. We're just about to pass our 200th episode milestone. So much happening. So much of the profession has changed since we started the show. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:07]: I remember you and I started working together in the midst of basically the first tendrils of lockdown, but we've also seen policy changes and governmental shifts and all these things. So we've decided this season to go with something to dig back into the roots of what we all bring to the table. And so I'll give a little Drum roll. Season 13 is what Chris. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:29]: On the Value of Student affairs so we are going back to our roots to be able to really look internally, look within ourselves, but also look within the profession about what makes us who we are as a profession, as individuals in the profession, and more. And I'm really excited about this season. We're working really closely with NASPA on some amazing guests and we're gonna be bringing you a ton of value for you as we move into I can't. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:58]: Imagine a more important time to be having this conversation, a time when in the US higher education is experiencing some instability as as a educational space, as a time when we're seeing more and more people measure the value of higher ed against the cost of higher ed. And with all of the changes in the U.S. department of Education, there's just so many conversations we're looking forward to having. So we have three theme questions this season like we've done in past seasons. And while we're going to be bringing you the content experts that you've come to know and love from the show we also are going to be focusing on the three questions, the Value of Student Affairs. First, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first, and why? Second, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of Student affairs come to life? And three, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? So we look forward to bringing you the answers to these questions as well as that content expertise from your colleagues around the world. Can't wait to get into it. We've got 13 more episodes coming at you, as well as some special bonus things. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:07]: Chris, anything you want to add about our upcoming season? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:10]: You know, I'm just really excited because like I said, we've got some amazing guests that we're teeing up to bring to you. And if you have an interest in being on the show in the future, if you know of someone that you feel could be an amazing guest, send us an email@savoicesaspa.org we would love to hear from you in regards to your thoughts on guests for the future. But also if you've got questions or if you have things that you want to talk to us about, send us an email as well. Because we love hearing from you from your perspectives. We love hearing about the journeys that you're on and things that you're resonating with. And it helps us to be able to make the show even better. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:52]: And especially if you are a new professional or a grad student studying student affairs, we really want to hear from you. We want to hear about what brought you into the field, what's keeping you in the field. If you're a mid level professional, we want to hear from you what has kept you persisting through these mid stages of your career. And if you're a senior level professional, we want to hear from you too. We want to know what is that drive that keeps you churning in this field that has so much reward but also right now has a lot of challenge. Our first episode of season 13 will drop on September 18, 2025. We're still every Thursday in your fe through the semester and we will speak to you so very soon. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:33]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:55]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:21]: Catch you next time.

9/18/25 • 05:31

Season 12 of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" concludes with a remarkable episode featuring Dr. Doris Ching, an iconic leader whose influence continues to shape the student affairs profession. Whether you're a veteran administrator or just starting your higher education journey, this episode is an inspiring listen that traces the arc of Dr. Ching's extraordinary career, explores the evolution of student affairs, and points to a future built on inclusion, mentorship, and student-centered vision. Dr. Ching, emeritus Vice President for Student Affairs at the University of Hawaii and the first Asian American and first woman of color to be elected President of NASPA, shares how her journey began as an eighth-grade English teacher and evolved—often unexpectedly—into a series of leadership roles that allowed her to champion student success at every level. Her story is a testament to the power of passion, humility, and saying 'yes' to opportunities that may, at first, feel intimidating. One of the central themes of the episode is mentorship: Dr. Ching credits her achievements to the many mentors and colleagues who believed in her, and she emphasizes the importance of supporting and uplifting new leaders within the profession. She also reflects on her commitment to rewriting the rules—literally rewriting job descriptions—to ensure her roles always centered on improving institutions for students and colleagues. Her advice to current professionals: if you're offered a leadership opportunity, take it, and make it your own. The episode also highlights Dr. Ching's advocacy for greater representation and support for Asian American and Pacific Islander professionals—work that led to the founding of NASPA's API Knowledge Community and established enduring community and visibility for AAPI leaders. Her legacy is honored through NASPA awards that bear her name and continue to encourage excellence and diversity in the field. As Dr. Ching and host Dr. Jill Creighton discuss the past, present, and future of student affairs, listeners are challenged to consider how the profession can remain relevant and impactful, especially by ensuring student affairs always has a seat at the executive table. This season finale brims with insight, perspective, and heartfelt encouragement—don't miss the chance to learn from one of the field's most influential voices. Listen to this episode to feel reinvigorated about your impact and to honor those paving the path for the next generation of student affairs professionals. Copy

6/12/25 • 41:25

If you're searching for inspiration, wisdom, and a genuine look behind the scenes of student affairs, the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field is a must-listen. This unique episode features Dr. Matt Gregory (Texas Tech University) and Dr. Andy Morgan (Illinois State University)—two lifelong friends who started as undergraduate orientation leaders and now serve as senior student affairs officers at major public universities. Their candid conversation, hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, brims with hard-earned lessons and reminders about what truly matters in higher ed leadership. The Power of Professional Friendship Matt and Andy's journey together is a testament to the sustaining impact of having trusted peers in student affairs. They first connected as student leaders at Southern Illinois University in the early 90s, and even as their careers took them to different institutions and roles, their friendship became a sounding board through every professional triumph and challenge. Their story highlights how vital it is to have a confidante outside your own campus—someone who understands the pressures of the job, offers honest feedback, and helps keep your feet on the ground. Authenticity in Leadership A recurring theme in the episode is the importance of authenticity, especially when pursuing leadership roles. Both Matt and Andy recall instances of competing for the same position but emphasized that being true to themselves—not just chasing titles—was key to personal success and lasting friendship. Their advice? Let your genuine self shine through at every stage of your career journey, and remember that every search process is an opportunity to learn and grow, regardless of the outcome. Evolving Student Affairs in a Changing Landscape Listeners will also appreciate the episode's examination of current challenges in student affairs: from navigating volatile policy environments and advancing staff compensation, to advocating for student engagement in a post-pandemic world. Both guests speak to the increasing synergy between student and academic affairs, the need for robust data to demonstrate impact, and practical strategies for supporting staff well-being. Despite pressures and shifting expectations, Matt and Andy's passion for student success and commitment to inclusive, student-centered leadership truly shines. Why You Should Listen Whether you're new to the field or a seasoned professional, this episode offers not just career advice, but heartwarming stories, candid reflections, and practical strategies you can apply right away. Tune in to be reminded of the enduring value of mentorship, honest connection, and the purpose that brings us to the field in the first place. Listen now, and let Matt and Andy's journey encourage and energize your own path in student affairs.  

6/5/25 • 54:22

In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, host Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Niah Grimes and Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne, two of the three authors behind the ground-breaking new book, Thinking Like an Abolitionist to End Sexual Violence in Higher Education. This episode dives deep into not just the book, but the lived experiences, philosophies, and activism shaping how we address sexual violence on college campuses today. The conversation is rich, personal, and thought-provoking from the outset. Both Dr. Grimes and Dr. Karunaratne share their journeys into higher education and research, rooted deeply in addressing systems of violence, healing, and examining the needs of minoritized students. Their experiences as scholar-practitioners and their commitment to transformative justice is palpable throughout the discussion. At the heart of the conversation is the bold theme of "abolitionist thinking." Rather than viewing abolition solely as dismantling harmful systems, the authors draw on the work of Ruth Wilson Gilmore and others to frame abolition as the presence of care, community, and healing. They challenge the carceral and compliance-driven frameworks that have dominated Title IX and other campus responses while calling for practices that actually meet the needs of survivors and communities—not just adhere to federal mandates. Dr. Grimes highlights how compliance cultures, rooted in white supremacy, often stifle creativity and community, leading to approaches where "business as usual" takes precedence over true prevention and healing. Dr. Karunaratne adds the importance of local, grassroots efforts and "1,000,000 experiments"—encouraging institutions and individuals to try new approaches, fail, learn, and grow together. Throughout, both assert the transformative power of centering healing—for survivors and for communities as a whole. Perhaps most refreshing is the authors' call for those in higher education to move beyond compliance as the ceiling of their work, to instead use it as the bare minimum "floor" from which innovation, accountability, and holistic care can grow. They urge practitioners to honor their own strengths, invest in their healing and that of students, and build community from the ground up. If you are a student affairs professional, educator, or simply care about safer and more just campuses, this episode will challenge and inspire you. Listen now to hear new perspectives on building communities where all students can thrive beyond the constraints of the current system. Listen to the episode and rethink how we approach prevention, healing, and justice in higher education. Your campus could be the next place where abolitionist thinking takes root. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to another episode of essay Voices from the Field, where today we're featuring two of three authors of a brand new book, Thinking Like an Abolitionist to End Sexual Violence in Higher Education. Our first guest is Dr. Niah S. Grimes, who received her doctorate from the University of Georgia in Education with an emphasis in College Student Affairs Administration with a certificate in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: Dr. Grimes was the recipient of the Mary Frances Early College of Education's Research Award and spent her tenure at the University of Georgia investigating campus sexual violence and systems of domination to begin eradicating violence and oppression from higher education. As an assistant professor in the Higher Education and Student Affairs program in the Department of Advanced Studies Leadership and Policy, Dr. Grimes focuses her scholarship and teaching on spirituality and healing, examining the experiences of people on campus with multiple minoritized identities, and eradicating violence and systems of oppression in higher education and beyond. Our second guest is Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne, and she's a postdoctoral research associate in the McCluskey Center for Violence Prevention at the University of Utah. In her research, she employs power conscious frameworks to understand issues of sexual violence in higher education, focusing on interrupting harm and promoting healing for minoritized survivors. Nadeeka's background in student affairs, specifically her work in campus cultural centers and with university violence prevention efforts, influences her scholarship and teaching. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: She's also a trauma informed yoga instructor programs on college campuses and in the community. Welcome to SA Voices, Niah. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:01:56]: Hi. My name is Niah Grimes. Welcome. I'm happy to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:59]: And Nadeeka, welcome. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:02:01]: Hi. Thanks for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:03]: We've got a coast to coast situation today with Naya coming to us from Maryland and Nadeeka coming to us from California. So I'm very glad we were able to make the time zones work out to have this very rich dialogue ahead. We're talking about your book today, which we'll get into in a moment. But before we do that, we always love to start our show by getting to know our guests and how you got to your current seat. So Naya, let's start with you. How did you become an assistant professor? Dr. Niah Grimes [00:02:26]: Wow. How to sum up such a long journey? I never really saw myself in this role at all. I I actually even in getting the college, I was first gen. I wasn't even considering that, like, the professors teaching me that that was a job available to me. And then at the time, I was at George Mason. They were in r two on the road to r one. So they had a ton of funding that they were pouring into undergraduate research. So I never thought about research, but my professors saw something in me just in my criticality, I think. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:02:59]: And I'm really just a problem solver, like, I like to solve problems. And so I was studying sociology, equity, and social change, and my professors were pushing me into research. So I was able to start taking qualitative research classes at the undergraduate level. I had an honors thesis where I did a qualitative dissertation level of work, but I interviewed 12 people, men specifically around their experiences retrospectively in high school, how they were taught to learn about sex. There was so much in the literature then almost blaming women for unintended pregnancy. And I'm like, where is the other perspective? And, you know, this is such a larger issue. So that's where I started my work in research, but I didn't believe in the power of research. I felt like we were doing all of this good work, but it wasn't reaching the people I cared about, my community members. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:03:51]: And so I started to do work more in the community, and I got into mental health counseling. I was doing work with survivors of violence, domestic violence, partner violence, neglected, unhoused youth, and I was working on the suicide switchboard nationally. And I recognized early on that, like, for some reason, I had a capacity to handle some of the harder things. And I leaned into that. One of my supervisors was a counselor, and I admired the relationship she built with the people we were serving. And I was like, I wanna do that. I feel like that's where my time should be spent. So I spent all this time getting a counseling degree, and I ended up counseling mostly in student affairs because I really loved undergraduate students, students in that before 25, the brain fully closed, like, area. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:04:42]: They just were so open to change and transformation. And as a transdisciplinary scholar, that is what sort of, like, ignites me is where can we make the most transformation towards healing so that people can meet their needs, so that people can live wholly. And from that work, I realized in working mostly with marginalized students, it wasn't them. It was systemic. And so I was like, okay. So now I need to generate power to really try to change structures and culture and community. And the best way that me personally with the identities that I hold to do that, not having any generational wealth, was to go back and get a PhD. So that's how I ended up at UGA with Chris Linder, and it's all really synchronous. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:05:29]: Right? Because without all of these things along the way, I would have never met doctor Linder. Through Chris is how I met Nadeeka through the Spencer. We did a symposium through Spencer together around sexual violence. And doctor Linder was really like, you have the capacity to really do assistant professor tenure track work. And, again, I I was like, well, I think I really need to practice. At the same time, my disability was getting worse and worse. So I was like, okay. I think that this is really spiritual and that, you know, I can try to work and be disabled. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:06:04]: It's still challenging, but still do transformative, like, transdisciplinary, equitable work that I love. So that's how I ended up here. Specifically, I work at Morgan State University, which is a HBCU in Baltimore, and I just think that I'm primed for that institutional type. Like, I love how authentic I get to be in my work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:23]: Thank you for sharing that journey with us, Naya. You referenced doctor Chris Linder, who is the other author on the book. So we're glad to get two or three of you today. Again, we'll talk about the book more in a little bit. And Zika, same question to you. How did you get to your current seat? Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:06:38]: So I currently work as a postdoctoral researcher. I work with Chris Linder at the University of Utah's McCluskey Center for Violence Prevention. So right now, I'm doing kind of most of my work is research, and I love it. And similarly to Naya, I when I started on my kind of post undergraduate professional journey, I never thought that I would be doing research at all, let alone full time. I didn't foresee a PhD on the horizon, but I pursued my master's in student affairs administration at Michigan State. And I had some really incredible mentors, shout out to Dr. Krista Porter and Dr. Ginny Jones' boss, who were like, hey, do you know about research? Do you know about this side of student affairs and higher education practice and academic programs? And so after I finished my master's, I worked a lot of my research is informed by my work as a student affairs practitioner. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:07:27]: So I worked in doing violence prevention education. I worked at a cultural center, racial equity work. And a lot of the questions that I still pursue in my my research and scholarship are from a lot of the experiences I had and things I witnessed as a practitioner, particularly with working with survivors, working with students of color, other minoritized students, and seeing how a lot of the things that we, and myself included, were doing, particularly in the context of anti violence work, weren't working. They weren't serving students. They weren't leading to preventing violence. And they in particular weren't serving the needs of minoritized students like women of color. And so that led me to go back to graduate school to do my PhD at UCLA, where I studied the the healing experiences of women and femme students of color and really to continue to dive into this research and scholarship to, as Naya talked about, seeing what kinds of change and transformation is needed and is needed, especially by students, to better address their needs and to more effectively respond to violence and also importantly prevent violence in higher education. So say much of my current work is informed by my experiences as a student affairs practitioner. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:08:37]: I also will say I teach as a trauma informed yoga instructor, and I think that space and that training and experiences teaching really informs how I show up in all kinds of spaces, including in a research context, including in a classroom, including in my student affairs work. And so that's a big philosophy and framework that influences me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:56]: The book we're talking about today is Thinking Like an Abolitionist to End Sexual Violence in Higher Education. Again, you are two of the three authors of this work. And I think hearing your foundations both as scholar practitioners really helps inform the work. It's a bold title, and I love it. Can we start with how did we arrive at this as the right time, the right moment for this piece right now, especially knowing knowing that I'm imagining from when you began to write the piece to now that it's published have shifted quite a bit. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:09:27]: Yes. It is a old title, a title that we spent a lot of time talking through and thinking about. I guess I'll share a little bit about how the book came to be, which you're right. Given the publishing timeline and the process, this was a couple years ago that actually Chris Linder brought the three of us together based on kind of our individual and collective work that we had been engaging in and the kinds of conversations that we've been having in as scholars and scholar practitioners around, again, things that we have experienced working with students, have seen, have read, have seen the state kind of of sexual violence in higher education research. And she brought us together to dream and to create something that encapsulated kind of all of our different really brought together all of our different views and work on the area. So for me, I'll say my journey into being a student of abolition is it really started actually as a practitioner. And when I was working as a violence prevention educator, I started to learn about frameworks of carceral feminism by scholar activists like Mimi Kim and Mariame Kaba and learning about the ways in which at large the mainstream anti violence movement, so not just in the context of higher education, but at large, had really aligned itself with carceral or punitive structures and practices and starting to think about the ways that we in higher education have done mimic some of those systems that are outside of higher education. So I will say when we talk about carcerality, we talk about logics or practices of control, of punishment, and surveillance, and how those practices have become really integrated with, again, mainstream anti sexual violence work and also in the context of higher education. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:11:04]: And so for me, that's kind of when I started learning about these, these frameworks and how they might be applied into the context of my work in higher education, doing violence prevention work and how maybe these frameworks might in particular serve the needs of minoritized survivors as students of color, queer and trans survivors, survivors with disabilities. And so that's a little bit about kind of my journey into this. And then as I continue to work with students and engage in research, I found more and more of the ways that, again, especially minoritized survivors, we're talking about often say things like, I don't want to see the person who harmed me punished. I just want them to stop. I want them to stop what they're doing. I don't want them to hurt me or to hurt anyone else. And the ways in which they are talking about whether or not they're using the language of anti carcerality or logics of surveillance control punishment, but they're really speaking about their needs as being outside of these systems that we have, have created. So the last thing I'll say is a little bit around the title. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:12:04]: So we use the phrase, I think it's oh, it's an I always want to make a point to say that we use the phrase thinking like an abolitionist because I think it's important that, instead of using a phrase like abolition, to end so we we use that thinking like an abolitionist to to try to, to name that true abolition would require abolishing higher education as we know it. And so we really want to be cautious around how, we're use we're talking about employing these frameworks, that scholars and organizers have have created and developed for years that, to not be appropriating that into the context of higher education, but rather thinking about what are the the larger overarching lessons, and ways of being and doing that we might be able to bring into our work. And so that's where kind of that phrase thinking like an abolition comes in. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:57]: You mentioned carcerality a couple of times. It's also a big theme in the book. Now I think from my conduct officer hat and my deputy title nine coordinator hat, I would think of it more of a retributive framework or align with retributive justice as opposed to restorative justice, which is something that we've been kind of moving towards in higher education for a long time, looking at harm and repair versus crime and punishment and institutions being stuck in systemic structures that require a crime and punishment model in order to be in compliance with what the government has required from us historically. And so it's an interesting tension between that community aspect, that healing aspect for what survivors need and and also what respondents and perpetrators might need in order to change behavior in many circumstances. But I also wanna dig into your definition of abolitionist because I like the way that you frame it in the book. We historically think of abolition as the absence of something, which you reference right up top in that chapter. But I'm gonna read this quote here. And while abolition is certainly abolishing harmful practices, we also subscribe to Ruth Wilson Gilmore's idea that abolition is about presence, not absence. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:03]: We believe that by working together to build what we need to thrive, we can build futures that do not include surveillance, control, punishment, and policing. We work in a higher education environment where these things are quite common and quite present, especially kind of the monitoring, the control and monitoring of how universities, have managed sexual misconduct in the past. And I would say a lot of that was earned by watching institutions not handle these as well as they could over the course of time. But now we're in a bit of a different space where the government is taking, swiftly different actions. We're recording this in April of twenty twenty five, so we don't really know what the future of Title nine, the Clery Act, Campus Save, VAWA, what those look like in the next session and what might happen through executive order. But one of the things you all focus on is systemic change in the way that we handle these things in higher education. Can you talk a little bit more about what an ideal approach would look like in terms of a campus community? Dr. Niah Grimes [00:15:05]: So I think you covered a lot there, and I definitely don't wanna speak for Nadeeka or Chris. But I will say, I think what really, like, a major theme of our book is that higher education is so compliant in white supremacy culture, which connects and leads to the carcerality and the lack of community. Like, I directly believe we can blame white supremacy culture for the lack of community and even I feel like what's been taken from us because we've inherited such an oppressive world is how to even build community in true ways. And when fear and being fear of difference and not being able to connect across difference and understand how we are all more similar than not, and that not being something that's taught like, you know, we study education. I work with my k through 12 colleagues. We have created a system to keep us oppressed so that we can be compliant and easily controlled. I get really impatient when we don't, especially as student affairs, practitioners because, like, our whole field was birthed out of meeting a need. When we act like what is created, what we inherited can't be destroyed and recreated. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:16:24]: It's not natural. Someone created it. And we know the history. We know why it was created and to what end. And it wasn't to liberate us. It wasn't to educate us. But inherently, learning is free. Like, just as a human, we come to learn. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:16:41]: Like, anyone can learn. You don't need a system of higher education to learn. Now we're in that dissonance. And so we talk a lot about dissonance in the book, and that's why we say thinking like an abolitionist because until we can fortify community, we can't build the future we need. And so for me, community, true community on campus would look like, first and foremost, campuses recognizing the communities they've taken over and just doing some retribution, healing work to the land, the communities that they've destroyed, pushed out, impoverished, exploited. We need to heal that. I have a ton of scholars who do a lot of, like, participatory action research with community members and so connected to these institutions. So first, we just need to repair and heal. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:17:31]: And then from there, we need to build fire, water, shelter, food. Before we can stop relying on the state and worrying about so much what the federal government's doing, we need to make sure we can feed ourselves, shelter ourselves, cover those basic needs in community. And I remember before a lot of our, like, black communities were decimated when people couldn't cover their rent, when people weren't eating, if you needed you know, if you were sick, like, we were living in such rich community that all of those needs were covered, but we don't have that. And even with the proximity we have on campus, because of white supremacy culture, because of the divide, like, I've been on campuses where people are choosing to sit at different lunch tables. Right? We don't want to really get to know each other outside of our obligations. And so I think, first, healing needs to occur for the pain that's happened, and then we need to meet needs, educate in a more Montessori way. Right? Like, can we focus on just being human relationships, feeding ourselves, healing, working through conflict, then we can get to what's next. Because I think in this culture of forward growth technology, we forget that we were just traumatized, COVID. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:18:46]: Now we're being currently traumatized by the literal, like, takeover of our rights. Like, before it was so under they hid it in policies. They hid it in laws. Now it's like a direct assault on our rights broadly. And so I think they're like, we can no longer move in white supremacist thought. We can't be scared. We have to heal and meet our needs so that we don't have to rely on the state. And I believe that higher ed needs to fully relinquish itself from the state, especially federally. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:19:18]: And even think about how are you serving the institutions and the land that you're on. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:19:24]: Thanks, Naya, for for all that you shared. I think the part of the question around kind of ideal approach, I think, is a little hard for me to talk about. I think partly one of the kind of abolitionist principles or values that we write about and that I know I hold is this idea of really getting local and like this thinking of Mariame Kaba uses this phrase, like, we need 1,000,000 experiments. And then there's like a whole podcast series and movie around that that concept. So I think that means that we need to be experimenting and trying and learning from our mistakes and failures and what doesn't work. And so I guess to just build a little bit on what Naya said, I think something that I wanna make sure we highlight and that is is important to kind of in my understanding of thinking like an abolitionist and what we write about in the book, but the importance of kind of this internal work and transformation. And so I think part of this is like doing everything at once in some ways, right? Like Naya is talking about really structural systemic stuff, and that is important. And also thinking about the ways in which we are engaging with, with others, the ways in which we are moving through the world. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:20:29]: And so thinking about one of my favorite quotes is from Adrienne Maree Brown. One of quotes this a lot, but it's from Grace Lee Boggs, but transform yourself to transform the world. And so really committing to for ourselves to be practicing accountability, to be engaging in our own healing, to be tending to our relationships, to think about the ways in which these ideas of punishment and surveillance and control show up in our own lives in the ways in which I'm whether that's in a work context or outside. Right? I am thinking about, right, how does engagement with my my partner or my friends. Right? Like, how am I bringing those those logics in that, like, white supremacy culture that Naya was talking about? How am I bringing that into my interactions in my work and then working to disrupt that? Right? Like, working in community with other folks who can tell challenge me on that. So that's not the only answer. It's just one piece, but I think a lot of that internal work and transformation is an important part of being able to really actualize. And the world that I think many of us want and to feel that liberation is that kind of internal work that doesn't have to, again, happen in isolation. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:21:37]: It's just it it probably happens best in community and with others, but that is really about turning inward and interrogating where are the ways that I'm bringing these harmful ways of being and ways of relating to my work and to my relationships. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:52]: You both talk about the both end of the individual and the institution of the system, meaning to have some care applied in order to get us to a place where we're able to move forward. I think this is an interesting tricky space because we're all part of the system that we're also trying to change, and sometimes it can be hard to see how to move or shift something so large when we're also inside of it. What are your thoughts on being a part of a system while also trying to change that system and actively participating and also fighting against at the same time? Dr. Niah Grimes [00:22:26]: I think Nadeeka really touched on a lot of it. It's that you you have to first be doing at all times. It's a continuous you have to be in continuous process of healing and holding yourself in a critical self accountable place. And I think the other piece to that would be making sure you know your values and know when they shift, know your capacity. Like, you have to be so self aware because in any given day in these systems, in these relationships, while we're not free, you never know what will be asked or exploited from you. And when we continue to let that spirit murdering occur, we don't have the capacity to create. We don't have the capacity to support that initiative towards liberation. And so I think it's really balanced. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:23:18]: I remember hearing Angela Davis speak, and she's one of the abolitionist thinkers of my heart. And she really was like, we need like, everyone can't do everything at once. Like, sometimes your goal right now in this is to heal, especially too if you aren't taking space to heal and really meet your own individual needs, have the capacity to do more. And so I think first, especially after just the collective trauma we've been experiencing before anything else, we're in crisis mode. Like, I was trained as a clinician. Whenever you go into these very crisis has just occurred. We're not worrying about big structures yet. I'm just trying to get people fed. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:23:56]: I'm trying to make sure that they're warm, that they feel secure. You know? And I'm tearing up thinking about it because it breaks my heart that we even have to talk about this, that this has been so trained out of us. But I think part of it is balance, values, really knowing what you can and cannot do, and not taking those, like, grassroots interactions as not as not being as transformative as they are. In white supremacy culture, we wanna focus on, like, big solutions, big policies, big change. But I know just creating safe healing space for a student, for a colleague, for anyone, that that's where transformation occurs. And so I think to Nadeca's point about grassroots all the time, we can't take for granted those, like, moment to transform and really show up in those values that we need a model for the new world that we wanna create. Like, we have to be the model of those things. We have to courageously show up as we want to be, not as we were taught to be in this oppressive state. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:24:57]: Yeah. The only thing I'll add is something that I really Naya is a person who's really, I think, helped me to understand this in a more deeper, richer way. But this understanding that we all have our own unique gifts and strengths, and that point Naya was just making her own, like, we all can't do everything, and we shouldn't. Right? We should be actually bringing to the world, to our work, to our relationships, to ourselves, the specific gifts that we bring. Right? Artists, caretakers, healers, educators, thinkers, writers. So there's this this quote I'll share from the book that Naya wrote. So this is Naya's writing. I understand that as an individual, my power would exist in helping transform as many spirits as I could through counseling, education, caretaking, scholarship, and art. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:25:41]: And so I just really love that because I think for so many years, I felt like I needed to be to think of myself as someone who's engaging in change work. I needed to be doing all of the things and showing up in spaces and doing things that didn't align with my strengths. And, in fact, I think we need to be creating space for ourselves and for each other to use those gifts and those strengths and to bring those to work, like, in going back to your question, right, to working within systems. So that's the only I I just wanted to add that piece as well. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:26:12]: Yeah. Just to I'm sorry to add to that piece. Because ideally, we're supposed to be living in abundance so that, like, we're able to just move in our strengths. One thing I don't think we wrote about yet and people don't know, we modeled these things in writing the book. So, like, the approach we took in writing the book, we very much held ourselves accountable to the values and, like, to what we were asking people to do themselves. So I just think that's really important to name. And I really am like, I honor the work that we did, and I really honor having Chris and Adika in this, like, coalition against oppression because we really do show up in our strengths and support each other in that. And you don't see it, but that's one of the main things we focused on in writing. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:57]: One of the things that you all do beautifully in the writing is researcher positionality. It's both at the beginning and the end of the book as well as sprinkled throughout, and there are also many autoethnographic pieces that tie into the research. So there's some wonderful nuggets that I won't spoil in advance for our listeners who want to go pick it up. But what I definitely appreciate is that we know who you are as authors. I think so many times when we read books that are kind of making more or less subject subjective claims are presented as objective, and I think you do a very good job of letting us know where you're coming from and the assumptions you're making as authors, as well as the assumptions that you're asking readers to make, before they read the work. So I wanna give my appreciation for you in that. One point that you make that's very strong is that when we exist in a culture of compliance, we are also taking away resources from prevention, which ultimately is the goal of addressing sexual violence and sexual misconduct on campuses anyway. We're trying to free or liberate, to use your language, liberate our campuses from acts of violence of all kinds, whether they be sexual violence or physical violence or other types of violence that show up in community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:07]: And you assert that healing is a number one way of doing that or a strong way of doing that both in individual and community spaces. Would you mind kind of sharing with us what that could look like in practice for someone who's reading the book and going, okay. I am with you in spirit. I anchor to these principles, but I don't know what that would mean to have it activated in the space. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:28:28]: I think one idea is to first I always have, like, student think of myself. Where are you positioned? And the later chapter the later chapters, we talk about knowing sort of what's in your locus of control. So I think it really depends on where you're doing this work and knowing that you have multiple roles within the work. And so I feel like some people who are like, well, I'm working in Title IX. I'm in compliance. This is how I feed myself. Right? And so this is also, like, I want us to, like, be pulling apart how this is all intentional. Like, it's easy for us to comply when we have to maintain our needs on the compliance itself, like, on these roles. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:29:13]: And so thinking about ways that you're being preventative maybe outside of your role or in conjunction with your role, but it really does depend on the positionality. So sometimes it's hard to give, like, a direct, like, answer if I don't know that person's role. But if I were to give an example, I would think about if I'm coming in working as, like, the director of the prevention office, I would be looking at incoming students and students who have already shown like, we can tell through the literature who might be at risk for causing harm based on, like, showing lack of empathy, past past history of harm, certain aggression, like, certain respect like, certain things that come up already relationally. Like, how are we intervening with those folks as soon as we know those things? So I would be thinking of, like, preventative workshops, infusing relational conflict, managing distressing emotions. We don't teach people these things. So for me, if I was doing prevention work, I would be thinking in that lens. But if I was in title nine, I might be thinking about, okay, how can I pull in literature that's saying exactly what I think and know would be more holistic here to then, like, make the points that I wanna make? So sometimes you have to be really strategic in your position, but I really do think it depends on your position and what you have the power to do. And it always doesn't have to be happening in that role. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:30:39]: But sometimes I've done organizing work with students outside of my role just as a human. So we can get really creative to maneuver around the system. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:30:49]: Yeah. I think I've had the really amazing opportunity to talk to practitioners in a lot of different capacities in anti sexual violence work, particularly in the context of research. And there are so many folks doing really incredible, I would say, healing work, right, with, like, Nya is saying, within and sometimes outside of their role using, I think, this idea of compliance as instead of it as the ceiling, but as the floor. So we're, yeah, sure. I'm complying. I'm checking the, you know, the things that my institution is, has asked of me given the kind of federal and larger context that we're in. And I'm also meeting the needs of the student in front of. I am, there's so many folks who are working with respondents to really do some of that that work that Naya was just talking about of building empathy, understanding why they're causing harm, really doing that. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:31:37]: I would say, like, student development work, right, that is direct prevention work. There's so many title nine folks across kind of that I've talked to and met that, right, are thinking about all of the different constraints that they're holding, right, and still working to meet the the healing needs of the student in front of them even within, right, these systems and constraints that they're working in. And so I think I think it really goes back to some of the the things that we were talking about earlier. Right? Like, really centering in our values. Right? Knowing what our lines are. Right? Like, knowing what we are willing to do and not do. Getting creative. Right? Coming back to our specific strength, coming back to community and the networks that we have. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:32:16]: So we do in the book offer some, some like more specific, like practices, like healing around healing, around contemplative practices, and internal work. And so there's some kind of healing activities or modalities that we offer, but those are just some, I would say, a handful of the kind of creative and really imaginative and dreaming things that folks are already doing. And I think some of the work is around making connections and having conversations and also being cautious again, not upholding one particular thing as kind of a best practice that should be applied across all institutions, but rather really learning from kind of the lessons and the underlying strategies and approaches that folks are using. And I think that's one of the things that the three of us, I know, hope that our current and, you know, future research also aims to do that to really uplift what folks are currently doing. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:04]: You also ask readers to ask their institutions some hard questions throughout the book, which is, I think, part of that abolitionist thinking that you're bringing forward. How are we thinking about the systems and structures that we're upholding, and are they really serving the institution? Are they serving the community members within the institution? We unfortunately are short on time to continue this dialogue, but it's so rich in terms of the read. So, again, please make sure that you go check out Thinking Like an Abolitionist to End Sexual Violence in Higher Education. We are on to our theme questions for the season, which again is the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I have one question on each theme. Starting with the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively to let go of? Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:33:53]: I can share this first because it was actually kind of just what I was give a little sneak peek in my last answer, but I think really keeping our focus on student development. I feel like really coming back to centering student development in anti violence work. And I see that as a direct form of a primary prevention and of engaging in healing work. And so I think that centering in our kind of the student development expertise and perspective that student affairs practitioners and the profession bring. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:34:22]: To that, I would say, you know, and it's such an interesting question because of how our institutions were created and to what end. But student affairs was birthed out of, like, a need. Right? Like, we were like, you know what? We need a bit more to make this buff right. And I just love that energy. Like, I love that energy of what can make this better. And I wish that we would just get back to some of that, some of that creativity, that fluidity, that let's just go do it, meet a need, and figure it out along the way. We built a whole profession just from meeting a need. And so I wish that we would let fear go and remember our roots and listen to what students need and what our communities need right now and and our capacity meet those needs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:05]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:35:09]: That is a question, especially when higher education as a whole is experiencing so much precarity and uncertainty and questions about the the future, I guess, and and our present. But I think one thing that is actually kind of exactly what Naya was was just speaking about, but I I do I have heard and seen folks, right, like, getting creative, using their full gifts and resources and networks to meet the needs. Like, that's the language I was gonna use of the students in front of them. And so I think in amidst all of the larger context, there are definitely folks in this field who are in alignment with their values, are are getting creative to to serve the students that are in front of them. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:35:51]: Yeah. This is hard for me to answer only because I'm very upset with our collective response. And so I'll talk about what's going on at the grassroots level. But I think right now at the grassroots level, there are people who recognize, like, we cannot continue as business as usual. We must heal. Like, now is the time to heal and strategize. Like, we're not safe. And so I think that right now what's happening is the people on the ground who recognize we can't just continue with the status quo, and we have to heal and really be creative. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:22]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards the future? Dr. Niah Grimes [00:36:28]: I think we have to do a lot, but I really do believe it starts first with ridding ourselves collectively of this idea that, like, we need to be punished and that doing harm will ever meet any need. In one situation scene where, like, harm has met a need. I know there's even some research on if you pop a child's hand, like, if they're gonna, like, touch a burning stove, like, that's okay. But you could even gently grab that. You know, like, I just feel like there's always a way outside of harm. And at first, we have to do, like, our own individual and then collective work to recognize why are we okay with championing this and how do we release it from ourselves. Like, I don't believe that I live in a world where, like, war is okay. Like, we're killing other people for land and resources. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:37:13]: We're not better than that. We are. So that's my hope for the future. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:37:17]: Yeah. I think, really, it's something that is, again, really present throughout the book, something we've talked about in this conversation, but moving beyond just compliance. Right? Like, using, again, compliance is kind of that floor rather than the ceiling in our work as a field, and particularly in the context of anti sexual violence work. But I think we're seeing in general at broad in higher education, the kind of challenges with compliance and over compliance and preemptive compliance. And so I think really transformation and, again, addressing the needs of our students really requires moving beyond compliance to to think about what they're actually asking for, what they actually need for their healing and their learning and their growth. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:57]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:03]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. Each year at the NASPA annual conference, the NASPA Foundation recognizes a series of distinguished individuals who have served as leaders, teachers, and scholars in student affairs in higher education. Each individual is nominated and supported for designation as a pillar by colleagues, students, friends, and others who find them deserving of this honor. If selected as a pillar, the nominator and selected foundation board member will raise $3,500 in the name of the individual being nominated to further research and scholarship in student affairs. The NASPA Foundation's Pillar of the Profession award honors members of the profession who have provided significant service to NASPA through regional and or national leadership roles within the association and have created a lasting impact on the institutions or organizations at which they have worked, leaving a legacy of extraordinary service recognized by a cross section of institutional and organizational stakeholders and or have demonstrated sustained lifetime professional distinction in the field of student affairs and or higher education. The nominations for the pillar of the profession are open and are due by 06/06/2025. If you are interested in nominating someone, I would highly encourage you to go to the NASPA Foundation website at NASPA.org. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:32]: There is a video presentation and a slide deck that will explain to you more about what a successful nomination packet looks like, and you can get a better sense of what the expectation is. This is a great way to be able to recognize people in the profession that have done amazing things, and I highly encourage you to think about someone that you will want to that you would want to nominate as a pillar of the profession. The twenty twenty five NASPA conferences on student success in higher education is happening June 27 through June 30 in Denver, Colorado. The NASPA conferences on student success in higher education is a convergence of three conferences in one registration. The conferences offer outstanding professional development opportunities that will shape your learning experiences. This conference is designed to engage professionals in critical discussions about in critical discussions and strategies around assessment planning and data analytics, dismantling systemic barriers to student success, and first generation student success. Each track will address the unique challenges and opportunities within these fields, equipping attendees with actionable insights to enhance institutional effectiveness, promote equity, and foster student achievement. This is a space for collaboration, innovation, and the exchange of best practices across higher education, focusing on the student experience from a data informed equity centered perspective. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:54]: This conference offers a platform for professionals who are committed to advancing equity, fostering student success, and using data driven strategies to enhance the higher education experience for all students. Whether your focus is on assessment, dismantling barriers, or first generation success, you'll find resources, insights, and a community of like minded professionals at the SSHE conference. The regular registration deadline for this conference ends on June 4, so you still have some time to be able to get in to the conference at the regular registration rate, and then late registration goes from June 5 to 06/27/2025. Find out more on the NASPA website. Finally, today, there is a new step by step course called conducting sexual misconduct climate surveys, a step by step course. This is a live web event in partnership with Rankin Climate. NASPA is providing a comprehensive course to meet the needs that colleges have to be able to understand how to develop these important climate surveys. This course will guide you and your team through a step by step process and will provide you with a blueprint for institutions that choose to administer a survey using only in house resources or minimal external assistance, culminating in participants building their own climate assessment plan. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:16]: This training builds a foundation for further data collection and assessment strategies, including general climate surveys and analysis of internal sexual mix sexual misconduct case data and the programmatic assessment to measure the impact of the effects of the efforts you and your colleagues are conducting to move the needle on the indicators on the indications from your overarching community survey work. Again, the live sessions for this begin on June 11, but this is there are three live sessions from June 11, on June 11 from one to 3PM eastern, June eighteenth from one to three eastern, and June 25 from one to three eastern. Find out more about this great course in the online learning community, in the NASPA online learning community. You can reach that by going to learning.NASPA.org. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:42]: Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:31]: Chris, thank you so much for sharing what's going on in and around NASPA and another lovely and informative NASPA world. And, Nadeeka and Naya, we are here with our lightning round. I have seven questions for you in about ninety seconds. You both ready to go? Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:44:45]: Yes. Yes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:46]: Question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:44:51]: Cuff It by Beyonce. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:44:52]: It would probably be some young nudie. I can't think of a title on the spot. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:56]: Number two. When you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:45:00]: I think a teacher. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:45:01]: I wanted to be a Spice Girl. Which Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:02]: Spice Girl? Dr. Niah Grimes [00:45:03]: Well, see, I was like a in between scary, sporty, posh. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:06]: So number six. Spice Girl number six. I love it. Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:45:13]: That's so hard. I will just shout out doctor Krista Porter. I've been really thinking about her lately. She's also making some serious moves in her own career, and it's been amazing to watch, but that's hard to pick the most, but she has been on my mind and heart lately. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:45:26]: Yeah. The most is hard because I really have a community of scholars who hold me down. I I would say right now, I'm thinking of one of my peer mentors, doctor Shonda Breeden. She is just an exemplar for me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:40]: Number four, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:45:43]: The book that just came into my brain was What It Takes to Heal by Prentiss Hemphill, which is an incredible, incredible book that I think every human would benefit from, including Sunifer's book. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:45:54]: I'm shamelessly plugging our book. It's brilliant, and you need to read it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:57]: Can you title it again, Naya? Dr. Niah Grimes [00:45:59]: Thinking Like an Abolitionist in Sexual Violence in Higher Education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:03]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:46:06]: I just finished, and it's very relevant to this conversation, I just finished the Sex Lives of College Girls on HBO. Not, like, necessarily the best, but it's it's a really good show. And I just, yesterday, finished the the whole series. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:19]: Showrunner, Minnie Kaling, I think. Right? Dr. Niah Grimes [00:46:21]: Yes. I just finished Severance season two. I now know what the GOATs were for. So Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:27]: Alright. Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:46:31]: I think mine is How to Survive the End of the World, which is by Adrienne Maree Brown and her sister, Autumn Brown. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:46:38]: Everyone knows this about me, but one of my character flaws is I I don't listen to podcasts. It's something with my neurodivergence. I just I can't listen to them. I can't listen to audiobooks. It's a thing. But I can read the transcripts, so I haven't been binging any podcasts, sadly. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:54]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:46:58]: I think a huge shout out to doctor Chris Linder who couldn't be here with us, but is always with us in spirit whenever we're talking about these things. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:47:06]: Yes. I would second that. Shout out to doctor Chris Linder for bringing this just incredible work to life, and I really appreciate her strength. She's just an action oriented person. Like, what she sets her mind to, she gets done. And we really need people like that towards liberation. So thank you, Chris. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:26]: And after our show airs and after our colleagues have read the book, if they'd like to join you in dialogue, how can they find you? Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:47:33]: You could go. I have a website that has my contact info. It's nadikak.com and has my email and everything. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:47:39]: And you can find me on the Morgan University website. My academic email is there. I'm also available on LinkedIn. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:48]: Well, Naya, Nadeka, it's been a joy getting to speak with you and learn about your perspectives and, of course, your book. Please thank Chris for her contribution to the work as well, and thank you both so much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Niah Grimes [00:48:00]: Thank you. Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:07]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at SAvoices@NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:46]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

5/29/25 • 49:05

In the most recent episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, recorded at the 2024 NASPA Annual Conference in New Orleans, host Dr. Jill Creighton invites us into a vibrant tapestry of real stories from practitioners at every level of higher education. The episode centers around a powerful question: Can you share a moment or experience in student affairs that you feel embodies the spirit of this profession? The result is a chorus of voices revealing the deep, often unseen impact student affairs professionals have on their campuses and on each other. From directors and deans to graduate students just starting their journey, one theme rings clear: student affairs is about people. Stories of mentorship, community, and personal growth abound. Many professionals recounted full-circle moments—guiding undergraduates, only to see them return years later as colleagues or even scholars in the field. Listening in, you'll hear how those simple, day-to-day interactions—a word of encouragement, honest conversation, or helping hand in crisis—can change a student's path or even their life. Community and connection surface as vital throughlines. The NASPA conference itself becomes a symbol—a place where hugs, laughter, and candid discussions help professionals recharge, collaborate, and remember why this work matters. There's a raw honesty, too: several speakers acknowledge the unique challenges facing higher education today. Yet, in the face of adversity, they highlight the unwavering spirit of resilience, support, and advocacy that defines student affairs. Listeners will also appreciate the emphasis on equity, inclusion, and the holistic development of students. Whether it's empowering first-generation scholars, supporting students in crisis, or building bridges across functional areas, the profession's commitment to fostering belonging and success shines bright. What elevates this episode is its authenticity. These are not scripted testimonials: they're person-on-the-street interviews, each voice echoing with genuine passion and care—for students and for one another. It's an episode that will remind you of your "why," whether you're a new grad or a seasoned pro. If you're seeking inspiration, camaraderie, or simply a reminder of the everyday magic in student affairs, tune in to this episode. It's a celebration of the profession's heart—and a call to keep showing up, for our students and for each other. Listen now and let these stories rejuvenate your passion for student affairs! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, SA voices. We are back with our third and final episode from this year's annual conference. This is our third person on the street style interview, and we're so thankful for those of you who chose to share your voice with us. Today's question was on theme three, which was sustaining and celebrating the student affairs profession. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:44]: We asked you, can you share a moment or experience in student affairs that you feel embodies the spirit of this profession? Once again, thank you so much if you shared your voice with us today. And for those of you who are unable to attend annual conference, we hope that these three episodes plus our three interviews from the conference gave you a bit of a taste of what was going on, in New Orleans. And if you were at the conference, we hope that this reenergizes you and brings you some of that joy and passion that we get when we are able to be together in community. Thanks so much, and enjoy your conversations. Eileen Hentz [00:01:14]: Hello. My name is Eileen Hentz. I am the program director of academic and student services at the University of Maryland Department of Aerospace Engineering celebrating sustaining student affairs profession. I think a moment that I can remember that I feel embodies the spirit of the profession is just through mentoring. I remember meeting a student their very first semester as a first year student and not knowing they'd had no idea what they wanted to do or where they wanted to go. And I'm kind of working with them all throughout their time as an undergraduate student. And at some point, they kind of recognized that they wanted to do something that I did. They wanted to go into student affairs, and now they have gone through both their master's program. Eileen Hentz [00:01:50]: They have really done a fantastic job with their work, and they're now even a PhD student going all the way through with their PhD in student affairs. And we have been in contact every single moment of the way, and I'm really proud of them. And they've, you know, of course, said thank you to me for helping them find their way professionally, but I really, really put a lot of things in them because they are exactly what helps make me feel passionate and excited about doing the work that we do. We're certainly a team in student affairs. Dr. Alyssa Bivens [00:02:23]: Hi. I'm doctor Alyssa Bivens. I'm representing George Mason University. I'm in their very new graduate division as a graduate career and professional development program coordinator. I'm still pretty new to the profession, but in working with some of my graduate professional assistants, seeing them improve on something that I've mentored them in and and seeing actual growth, I think, is one of the one of the reasons we do this, is seeing that incremental growth in the students around us. Amerette Renieri [00:02:54]: I'm Anurant Ranieri. I'm from Texas A and M University in College Station, Texas. I am currently serve as the associate director of career services for Mays Business School. This is one's a hard one. I've been in the profession now for almost twelve years, and I think, honestly, NASPA has really brought me a lot of joy because I've been able to connect with professionals from all over the all over the, like, country and really finding a space where while I work in career services, I very much identify as a student affairs practitioner in a career services space. Whereas a lot of career services people identify more on the career services side, but I very much view my job as a student affairs educator in a career services world. Amy Law [00:03:34]: Hello. My name is Amy Law. I am a GAP from the graduate associate program with NASPA. I am from California. I currently attend the University of Southern California for my degree in post secondary administration and student affairs with my master's program. I actually, like, just ran into my undergraduate student affairs mentorship team with enough program with NASPA here at the NASPA annual conference. And I had not seen them since undergrad, but I got into the field of student affairs in undergrad. And so now as a master's student, being here as a annual conference intern, being in this space as a graduate associate as well, it is such so full circle to see the people that contributed to where I am standing here today in this role. Amy Law [00:04:23]: And I feel like that is what embodies this profession so much because this profession has so much mentorship, so much guidance and support that we don't even realize it until you're standing in this position looking at the people who who had a hand in bringing you here today. Angela Watts [00:04:39]: Angela Watts, the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio School of Nursing. I'm the director for student success. This may be not a very original answer, but for me, commencement is always one of those moments where I am not only proud of the students, but I feel rejuvenated. And because oftentimes, you know the struggles that students have gone through to be able to make it to the point where they're crossing that stage. I mean, you see their families and their friends so excited for them. And so I think that those are moments where I feel like my work has made a difference in someone's life. And not only in their lives, but often in their family's lives and the trajectory of future generations of their families. James Quisenberry [00:05:21]: Asia Jones, associate director at the National Association for Student Affairs Professionals, AKA NASPA. My defining moment in my experience in student affairs was when I came to NASPA. Working on college campuses for the last ten years was great. And I was worried when I first came because I was such a student friendly person. Like, how was I gonna be able to do that work and not be in the face of students? And what defined me is to see that I can do this work, and I'm doing it at a greater and broader level that flows down to the students that create retention and graduation programs for students to be able to excel. And so that has really helped define me that no matter where I go in student affairs, I can find my mission and get it done. Dr. Bernard Little [00:06:07]: I'm doctor Bernard Little, vice president for student affairs at Prairie State College. A moment or experience in in student affairs that embodies the spirit of this profession, I would say one of the best experiences that I've had is attending the new VPSA Institute. And coming from a community college, I was a little nervous about, right, what that would be for me, given I was in the room with some heavy hitters. And it was truly a remarkable experience because I was embraced and was able to really lean into professionals who were not only feeding me, but also learning from me as well. And I think that's just really what student affairs is about. It's just not about the show, really about truly, people and how we can help one another on this journey that we're in together. Camden Doolittle [00:06:52]: My name is Camden Doolittle. I use they and them pronouns. I'm coming to you from the NASPA annual conference in New Orleans, but I am from the University of California Davis in the Sacramento region of California. I think a lot of things two things that stand out to me. One is being consistent. Showing up every day, every month, every year over a career and standing for what you believe in as that evolves and changes. And I think that's that's excellence and that's the spirit of what we do and who we are. And I think the other piece is just resilience. Camden Doolittle [00:07:23]: I went to undergrad at the University of San Diego, a Catholic institution, and I was there right as we were talking about what does it mean to be gender expansive in a Catholic setting. And we put on a drag show and kind of talked about what does it mean to celebrate gender expression. And there was a lot of pushback because it was change. And so it's how do we engage change. And I think that doing that drag show over three to four years really embodied that for me, and that's the spirit I try to bring in my career. That was ten years ago now, but it still stays with me. David Zemoyski [00:07:57]: I'm Charles. Speaker K [00:07:58]: I think if you just look at this conference I did a pre conference yesterday at the Black and African Men's Summit, and there's so many people who are going through the same things everywhere, but we're finding ways to support each other. And I think that's probably the most important thing for me, just finding that community and supporting each other. It doesn't even have to be someone in your school. You gotta find someone, a way that you can just unpack and talk about the things at your that's happened at your university or in your everyday life that you can be unfiltered with. Jessica [00:08:33]: My name is Jessica. I think it's important for conferences like this and other student affairs profession conference for us to connect and network because we are going through similar things either on the state or federal surface. And so it's really important for us to have those connections and making sure that we can lean on each other, whether you are from the East Coast, the West Coast, Canada, Mexico. Higher education impacts us all. And so it's always nice to bounce ideas Clarissa Lau [00:09:01]: off one another as well. Chris Hall [00:09:04]: Hi. I'm Chris Hall. I'm the director of residence life and student housing at Georgetown University Law Center. I would say that daily we have moments in student affairs that embody the spirit of this profession, whether that be something as simple as just helping somebody out, with a simple question that they may have or figuring out a very complex challenge and finding the solution to yes rather than they trying to get to no. I think that's one thing that we believe in very much is how do you get to yes. I think if we keep that and embrace that as a concept, we can do really well for our students. Clarissa Lau [00:09:37]: I am Clarissa Lau. My pronouns are she and her, and I work at the University of Toronto. I work a lot with student data, and I also work a lot with student staff trying to understand student data. And I remember very fondly moments when I was actually leading a set of focus groups with staff, trying student data to improve. And hearing their excitement about that, not only did they share about experiences of how they engage students to understand their student data, but then as well as how they personally feel revitalized, empowered in their work, I think that was a real highlight for me. Speaker O [00:10:18]: My name is Dan Maxwell. I serve as the interim vice president for student success and student life at the University of Houston downtown. I think the way that can sustain and celebrate student affairs is, again, this is about reaching not only our students where they are, but it's also about reaching our staff and our individual staff members where they are and helping them to embrace the moment, think about the future, and have some patience as we navigate sometimes these turbulent waters that we're in. Speaker P [00:10:47]: Dan Balchak, interim dean of students at Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. Sharing a moment, I can tell you when I was a RA as an undergrad, there was an RD there who I became very good friends with, got very involved with NASPA, was a NASPA president at one point, got me involved with NASPA. I've done a lot of stuff with NASPA, and to me, that's part of the profession, how we mentor young people, we work with young people, and we hopefully learn well. Speaker Q [00:11:14]: Hello. My name is David Chow. I am currently the chair of the technology knowledge community for NASPA. So the moment in experience that's that I really cherish almost every year is attending the NASPA conference. It's a time for me to recharge and just remind myself why I believe in student affairs as a profession and the energy, it just nudges me and just helps keep me going. Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:11:33]: My name Speaker S [00:11:33]: is David Zemoyski. I'm senior associate dean of students at Boston University. The most recent example for me is the moment I learned that Betty Simmons is receiving this year's Fred Turner award for outstanding service to NASPA and that Maureen Keefe is receiving the Scott Goodnight award for outstanding performance as a dean. To me, they're two friends and colleagues I have enormous respect and affection for, and what a great moment for the association and the foundation to recognize excellence in this way. Speaker T [00:12:04]: I am doctor Deborah Wright, and I am with the George Washington University in Washington, DC. I love to think about times when students come in to our organizations, to our institutions where they are, for example, first generation students or other students don't have support in helping them navigate college. And as student affairs professionals, we do what we do best, help students gain connection and belonging. We do that well during our orientation programs and just finding ways to especially engage them so that they can feel part of our university communities and cultures. David Zemoyski [00:12:33]: Hi. My name is Diedra Cobb, and I am from Fairmont State University in West Virginia, and I am the student success coordinator. I was hired under the title three grant with the intentions of being, first and foremost, a bridge between academic affairs and student affairs along with other responsibilities such as forming a student success support team and also overseeing a student ambassador program called the student empowerment liaisons. I'm actually hired under academic affairs, but my office is in the student affairs area. So I get to interact with a lot of student affairs professionals as well as academic affairs professionals. So I think that is very important to be able to collaborate and communicate across departments. But I also think one of the best things that has come out of this grant, and embodies the spirit of the profession is actually having that student ambassador program, the SELs, or student empowerment liaisons, because it's a way of having a liaison between the students and administration to get the students' perspective. And absolutely enjoy working with those students and have learned a lot from them, probably as much as they have learned from me. Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:13:53]: Hello, everyone. My name is Eddie Martinez. I serve as the associate dean for student affairs at Suffolk County Community College. When I go to NASPA annual conferences and I walk from one place to the other and you just watch all of the hugs, the kisses, and the deep conversations, the light conversations. People from all over the world who just gather one time a year and it is what gives me the goosebumps. It's what gives me joy to come to annual conference every year and just hug people, have conversations, and truly commiserate sometimes and appreciate each other. That's the spirit of our profession, and NASPA provides that venue for us to do it. Speaker V [00:14:37]: My name is Ellie McMillan. I'm the graduate apprentice at the Center for Leadership in Elon University. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm a graduate student in the Master of Art in Higher education program at Elon. So a moment that I feel really embodies this profession is actually something at the NASBA conference. So yesterday, we were kind of going to a opening night reception over at Mardi Gras World, and I actually got to introduce my graduate supervisor with my undergraduate supervisor. And it was just a really, like, full circle moment for me. And I'm originally from the Northeast, So I also was encouraged to move down south for graduate school by my dean of students. And it was really powerful because I actually got to see him again and be like, hey, I'm here, and I'm successful and I'm loving graduate school, in the South. Speaker V [00:15:35]: And so just reconnecting with everyone at graduates at my undergrad institution and having kind of my grad school and undergrad school connect, has been really, really special for me. Speaker W [00:15:48]: Erica Stocks, director of student affairs at Boston University's Henry m Goldman School of Dental Medicine. I think honestly, like, starting, getting involved in a gaps. I mean, this year, I feel like I'm coming full circle because 2015 was my first NASPA conference. It was here in New Orleans, so I feel like I'm back. And it was really where I found, like, a really professional home and really welcoming individuals. And I think that's kind of the spirit of student affairs, right, is we're all welcoming. We wanna interact with students, but also, you know, supporting each other in the work that we do. It can be taxing at times. Speaker W [00:16:17]: It can be draining and particularly in graduate and professional student affairs where sometimes you might be the only person in that office or the only person in the department. So you need that kind of community and it may not be at your institution. It may be within sort of a larger professional organization. So I think that one in particular for me because I was coming by myself as a new professional, and I was like, I don't know any of these people, but everyone was really welcoming. And then I have sort of found my professional community. While I have a a little bit of a larger team, it's still not huge in in respects to other schools. So I do tend to use my colleagues to bounce ideas off of sort of across the country, particularly because we're working on sort of the same issues and topics that come up in graduate and professional student affairs. Speaker X [00:16:56]: I'm George McClellan, professor of higher education at the University of Mississippi. So I'm gonna tell you two stories. I was lucky enough to be in a room. There was a time when NASPA's archives, you know, at Bowling Green, was trying to interview some of the founding original student affairs greats because they were all getting older. And so they went out to capture the voices of these living folks. And so it was basically student affairs giants interviewing other student affairs giants, and I was not a giant. I don't know if I am now, but I certainly wasn't that. And so Peggy Barr said to me, she was gonna interview James Radagon. Speaker X [00:17:30]: It was one of my favorite people. People. Passed away. Great loss to the field. Wonderful human being. Anyway, Peggy says, you can sit in a room, but you can't talk and you can't ask any questions. So I'm sitting in a room while Peggy Barr is interviewing James Radagon. And she asked him I don't remember what question was, but he started talking about he was the long time vice president of Wichita State. Speaker X [00:17:49]: And he he was there when they lost their basketball team and a bunch of coaches in a plane crash. And decades had gone by, and he started crying. The pain continued to be real for him. And I've seen too many people stay in this business too long to the point where they lose the magic with students. And I always thought, I don't wanna be one of those people. And that day with Radegan reminded me. And And I've said since then, I never wanna be here so long that I don't cry over students. I cry when they graduate because I'm happy. Speaker X [00:18:21]: I cry if one of them doesn't make it through. I'm a willeller. I'm a crier. But I never wanna be at a place where I don't cry about students. And and then I'll tell you the other story. So this profession brings you lots of wonderful things, meeting people like you, all the friends I've made over the years, and all of that sort of thing. But the coolest thing for me is every place I've ever been, literally every single institution, staff that have worked with me, for me, students that I've met, etcetera, to this day, they will send me little cards that'll say, hey. Just wanna let you know I had my first child. Speaker X [00:18:54]: Wanna let you know I got this job. Wanted to let you know this, that happened. My mom died. Those cards let me know whatever else I've managed to accomplish, there's somebody out there, a real person, who knows that I care about them and that I'll want to know that news about their life. Speaker Y [00:19:13]: Hello. My name is Hallie Vavris. I am a graduate student at Baldwin Wallace University in the leadership in higher education program here. Right now, I am working in the STEM scholars program at Baldwin Wallace University. So I am working with a woman named Cat Katie Adkins. She and I are working on writing grants for the Choose Ohio First program. And sharing a moment in that office is amazing because I used to work with a student who was hard of hearing. And this student was a STEM student, hard of hearing, and I realized that she needs a role model. Speaker Y [00:19:48]: You know, the student was really looking for somebody who was I believe it was chemistry, and finding a role model was difficult. And I had to really use, like, my outside resources outside of the university to really do my own research, and I think that that was really a learning moment for me as a graduate student that we might not have all of the resources here at the university. You know, it's a lot of, like, brainstorming and creativity to kind of think outside the box. So what I did in that scenario was that I contacted, I believe it was the deaf hard of hearing community in Columbus. I contacted them and I was like, hey. Would you have any mentors for this student? And, you know, I kind of helped bridge that connection. And let me tell you what, that student, I believe it changed her life because she really got to see, you know, somebody who relates to her. And and then she graduated, and yeah. Speaker Y [00:20:39]: And she is doing so well. And that really kind of helped build the connection to with her professionally. Speaker Z [00:20:47]: I'm Jackie Yoon. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the student center at at Harvard Griffin GSAS. It feels hard to talk about celebrations right now as we're in this moment in higher ed where we're having a lot of challenging days. There's, like, a little bit of occupational hazard to our work right now, but I think it's even more important during this time to think about our students. And for me, it's it's all about folks being successful and growing. And so watching students cross the stage that for commencement that had struggles in their graduate in their graduate journey, which everyone has struggles in their graduate journey. But watching a student leader really grow in their leadership identity and really work on things in their time with us, seeing student groups come together around celebration. I just, this year I was watching a Diwali event in the student center from the balcony and just the color and the dancing and the festivity and the joy and people inviting each other into each other's cultures. Speaker Z [00:21:45]: I just feel grateful for those moments of fun and celebration. I feel lucky to work with such amazing students. Dr, Jacob Diaz [00:21:54]: My name is Jacob Diaz. I serve as the associate vice chancellor for student success at the University of South Florida, Saint Petersburg campus. Being at the NASPA conference right now reminds me of the importance of community. And I think now it's what dropped me into the field, and I think I'm realizing now it's what sustains me is that being in community with my colleagues on my campus, my colleagues nationally and internationally helped to remind me that I'm not in this alone. And then that helps give me energy to keep doing the work that's needed. Herbie Gibson [00:22:30]: Hi. This is James Quisenberry. I'm executive director of student affairs technology at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. One of my most exciting moments being a student affairs professional is every year at our IT professionals conference on campus, where all the IT leaders and professionals come together in the fall, I host a panel for students to share their experiences with technology, and I and I bring them there, and I I actually make our IT professionals just sit and listen because we need to do a better job as technology leaders and leaders in student affairs to listen to what the experience of our students are so we can move things forward. And it and it's always great to give the students a voice, and I enjoy those moments very much. James Stewart [00:23:18]: Hi. I'm James Stewart, associate vice president for student development and achievement at Coppin State University. You know, I think NAS conferences do that. I think that we come together in support of each other in our common experience and community. That's exactly what we want our students to do, and so I look forward to it each year. It's my chosen family in the profession. Jamie Haney [00:23:41]: Hi. I'm Jamie Haney, associate dean for the graduate college at University of Illinois Chicago. I feel like I see a lot of small moments. You know, staff and faculty put themselves on the line every day, especially in the current day and age. And so letting students again know that we are human, and the ways that we want to support them are the ways that we wanna support everybody in the world. Dr. Jamie Washington [00:24:06]: Hi. I'm Jamie Washington, and I am the president and founder of the Washington Consulting Group and of the Social Justice Institute Training Institute. I've seen so so much good, and being here at NASPA for me gives me an opportunity to just be reminded of how far we've come and all of the good work that's happening around all of what we do, whether that's in student health, whether that's in diversity, equity, and inclusion, and belonging, whether that's in residence life. There's so many things that in this forty first year of my professional life that I've had an opportunity to see. Just stories after stories of people coming up to me and I remember when I was a student, I was an RA and I was doing this and and now I'm doing this and, you know, and so just as I said at the beginning that we are preparing the next generation of leaders, I get to see that live in this space. So that's what it means to me. Dr. Jeanna Mastrodicasa  [00:25:03]: Hi. This is Gina Masterdecasa, Casa, and I am the director of the office of institutional assessment at the University of Florida. And I've been there for more than twenty seven years in a total of six roles. I am a student affairs professional not working in student affairs. I do work on a college campus, and I can tell you that I can pick up a conversation I haven't had in a year or two with people here at NASPA or from a out of the blue phone call or text or email and feel like I am part of something. And that is why I've remained committed to attending NASPA and being a member, but more importantly, I'm finding wonderful connections and professional development to happen. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:25:47]: Hey. My name is Josie Alquist. I use sheher pronouns. I am a digital engagement consultant, executive strategist, coach, and speaker. You know, we are at a moment that fully represents this profession to be able to be in community and connect. When we're on our campuses, it can feel so siloed and shielded in bubbles and don't forget to break out whether if that is is coming to a conference, finding someone on LinkedIn, on Instagram, pick up the phone. You are a % not alone and deserve to have other people around you. Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:26:29]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, sheher pronouns, vice president for student success for the Indiana University System. Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:26:34]: That's not a system. Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:26:35]: We can Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:26:35]: call it a multi campus university if you would like. I'm gonna take this from the NASPA board chair space and say when COVID hit and we shut everything down, we remained supportive of each other in very specific and very broad ways, whether it was the association coming together and figuring out how we were gonna best support folks in need that were either losing their jobs or losing access to professional development funds, flipping things online, and how we worked very intentionally to bring people back together in meaningful spaces. Because as we heard Amelia say the other day, one of the best ways to get through a really difficult time is to be in community with each other and with people who care about you and know what you're experiencing. So. Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:27:16]: So I Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:27:16]: think about a moment that embodies the spirit of student affairs. I think back to my undergraduate experience and all the advisors I had, especially when I was, president of Kent Interhall Council at Kent State University and just what they poured into me as advisors and just having some of those tough conversations as a young man that was still pretty bold and unaware of the the world around just having some of those steering conversations. And to this day, I take that forward and think about the conversations I have to have with students, that might be still developing and growing in their maturity. Jawan Jacobs [00:27:46]: Hey, y'all. My name is Jawan Jacobs. I am currently an assistant director in the Student Involvement and Leadership office at Duke University. Really, the one thing that comes to mind is the Undergraduate Student Conference, which is a pre conference through NASPA. I had the privilege of attending in 2021 and 2022. And truly, it is such an intentional space because I don't think that you ever really get to talk with students, particularly undergraduate students who are so invested in higher education. They're student leaders, they're really active on their campus, and they really wanna make an impact. So what does it really mean to have a dedicated space and a full day conference for those folks where we can have the candid conversations about making sure that you are prepared, but also exposing them to so many different fields and functional areas. Jawan Jacobs [00:28:32]: We know a lot of our undergraduate students say, I am in a Greek lettered organization, so I want to go into fraternity and sorority life. And while that is great, it is so important that we are exposing our emerging professionals into what it looks like to just have variety of experiences. So really going to that conference and participating on the committee during the planning process and being able to see the intentionality behind it, I think is something that is honestly second to none. It is so intentionally done, so intentionally driven. Lots of work goes into it and then we are intentional about putting them on college campuses that are nearby where the conference is actually being held. So we are giving them a snapshot as to what it looks like to have conversations about being a graduate student, have conversations about being a professional within higher education. And I think that is so, so important because so many questions go unanswered and there are so many different ways to do things and we're just never really actually sure sometimes. The best way to steer someone when they're like, I wanna get involved in higher education. Jawan Jacobs [00:29:30]: I wanna get involved in student affairs. So, the Undergraduate Student Conference, again, if you are listening to this right now and you have an undergraduate student, please find the means to invest in this opportunity for them. I've been able to see students attend that undergraduate student conference and then become graduate students and then serve on the undergraduate student conference committee. And now, they're full time professionals doing good the good work. Some Some of them are on doctoral programs and it really the foundation and the root of that was us being able to expose them to all of the different kinds of opportunities via the undergraduate student conference. So Go USC, has a special place in my heart and yes, go NASPO. Kevin Willis [00:30:11]: Hi. My name is Kevin Willis. I am a membership manager with NASPA's membership team. I'm originally from Kentucky. A moment that I feel embodies the spirit of the profession is when I was a student supervisor and I got to actually work with students from freshman to senior year at my last position. And I really got to see them grow and flourish, and we got to develop a wonderful mentor mentee role where I was able to support them and help them grow and become the best versions of themselves. I actually got the chance to walk in the graduation of one of my student managers as part of the staff commencement, and I was able to see her from when I first met her as a freshman to now being a confident, amazing graduate of her institution. And that moment always sticks with me because it's the end goal. Kevin Willis [00:30:54]: It's what we always hope to have is to get our students across the finish line. And I think for me that embodies not only the profession, but it also embodies why I went into the profession, which is to help students and support them the most. Herbie Gibson [00:31:07]: Herbie r Gibson, sheher, associate director of residence education for student learning and leadership, Michigan State University. Shout out to the NASBA undergraduate fellows program. I am a proud alum of the program. And if it wasn't for enough, I wouldn't be the practitioner that I am today. And so the ways in which we pour into these students and mentorship and giving them opportunities to learn more about the field, the Dungey Leadership Institute. Coming to NASPA, those are just really great opportunities for people to connect and those connections are still something that I cherish today. Dr. Laura Devoe [00:31:42]: Hi. My name is doctor Laura DeVoe, and I'm a visiting assistant professor at Boston College. The moment in student affairs that I think embodies, the profession is when we are actually the first people that students come to when they are in need. And that's what we're here for. We are here for the students. We are servant leaders, and we see that every day. And I think anyone listening to this can think of that in their own life. Mylon Wallace [00:32:11]: My name is Lauren Zelensky. I'm the associate director for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Office of Graduate Studies. And a moment or experience in student affairs that embodies the spirit of this profession would definitely be my office taking over some of the orientation responsibilities of all of our graduate programs within the School of Medicine just to make sure that we are hitting all of those baseline needs for all of our students to ensure that they're receiving all of the necessary resources and information above and beyond what their program specific needs and information for orientation would be. Marcus . [00:32:47]: My name is Marcus. I'm from Singapore, and I'm representing a social enterprise called Sojourner's Agora, but I also work in student affairs in the National University of Singapore, taking care of student life for the undergraduates. It's sometimes helpful just to see my younger self in the students whom I'm serving. It reminds me also of the many decisions and challenges that I've had to face while I was younger, but also to remember that my experiences are not all the experiences that they're facing. Now I have the opportunity to be a conduit of a whole hybrid and synergy of different stories and narratives and how can I best facilitate that information for the students whom I'm serving? So that mentoring experience really is the most fulfilling thing for me and I feel it's what keeps me going. Mary Pat Morgan [00:33:35]: My name is Mary Pat Morgan, and I am a program coordinator with the mechatronics engineering program at the universities at Shady Grove. When we're working with students, I think the most important thing is just to connect them to resources beyond the university community to get to know the greater community and to see higher ed as an equalizer that can transform their lives and their trajectory, not just of their own lives, but that of their families, and I've seen it. Dr. Melanie Mitchell [00:34:05]: Hello. My name is doctor Melanie Mitchell, and I have the pleasure of serving as the director of the Impact Leadership Village at North Carolina State University. A moment that comes up for me when I think about embodying the spirit of the profession is when I have seen the benefits of having an open door policy and empowering students to stop by and connect. It it helps the students see you as human and as a person that they can talk to and share what's going on for them. And so there's value in that, and I think that's something that's important. Relationship building is at the heart of what we do, and being able to have that open door policy, to engage with students really is how you meet their needs and support them where they're at. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:34:56]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I am currently serving as the interim dean of students at Bay Path University, and I've been working in higher education for over twenty years at this point. From personal experience, recently, my job was eliminated back in January. And as I've worked the past couple of months in terms of transitioning to an interim role and letting people know about my change in circumstances, I I've had so many people reach out and provide support to me. Some of these people I know well that I've worked with for a number of years. Other people, I didn't know at all, and they reach out to me and just, you know, express support for me. And I think that really embodies the spirit of student affairs that as a profession, we are a bunch of helpers, and I mean in a good way, not in a way where we're walking around over helping people. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:35:46]: But I think we look at people, and we want people to thrive and to succeed, and that applies to our colleagues as well. And I have just been so amazed by the support from this community, and I think that embodies the spirit of the profession. Melissa Aponte [00:36:01]: I am doctor Melissa Aponte. I serve as assistant dean of students at Rochester Institute of Technology. I am being overwhelmed with the memories of actually being in NOLA ten years ago when I hosted, at the time, my college's first ever alternative spring break and spending a week with our students, sharing time, doing volunteer work. And now ten years later, reflecting on where all those students have gone, some of them have pursued student affairs roles and careers. Others have gone on to do doctoral doctoral work and then also pursued giving back to the community because of some of the impacts of that trip, actually. So I think that really embodies the spirit of really connecting with students, seeing who they are individually, and helping them grow and guide them to whatever opportunities might be there for them. Melissa Ward [00:36:55]: I am Melissa Ward. I am director of student engagement at the College of Engineering at Oregon State University. That moment for students when something clicks is my drug and why I I show up to work every single day. So whether it's they get a concept or they get the job or they get the leadership Melissa Ward [00:37:25]: prevention outreach and education department at Michigan State University as our director for employee and graduate student programs. I think about multiple crises that are taking place. I look at what has happened in North Carolina, Florida, California with wildlife disasters. I think about hurricane responses for our campuses that are in the South. And when I see and when I learn and when I hear about these experiences, that is what embodies the best of us. When student affairs professionals are the ones that come together, support folks going through crises, provide the resources, work to get people what they need, that is what I think, is the at the heart of the student affairs profession. Dr. Michael Sheehane [00:38:01]: Howdy. My name is Michael Sheehan. I work at Texas A and M University in career services. Specifically, I'm the director of campus programs in the career center. Been there for about fifteen years now. I've been doing this for a while. I would say, to date, it's still fascinating to me how students absolutely remember how you made them feel. And so, to date, I'll still get random emails from students that maybe I interacted with a decade or more ago, and they'll update me about where they are now and what they're doing now. Dr. Michael Sheehane [00:38:28]: And so I think that speaks to the power of the little moments and and making sure that you understand that even though it might be a conversation that you've, as a professional, had 500 times before, it could be the first time that student's hearing it. And so making sure you you give care to each one of those moments. Dr. Michelle Burke [00:38:45]: Michelle Burke, Grand Rapids, Michigan. I work with the Michigan Center for Adult College Success. I've been a NASPA member for a long time. I think coming to the NASPA conference almost every year and seeing the people that you have mentored that have mentored you. And what I love is when I have my undergraduate student from years ago who's now getting a doctorate and gonna be a professor in higher ed. That's amazing. Dr. Mimi Benjamin [00:39:11]: I'm Mimi Benjamin. I'm a professor in the student affairs in higher education program at Indiana University of Pennsylvania. I think that when I come to the national conference and I run into former colleagues and former students who tell me about their successes and are so excited about everything from passing their comps to getting a promotion to doing the kind of work and making the kind of impact on students that they always talked about doing. Those are really the times that I know I picked the right profession, and I'm really excited to be part of of the field. Mylon Wallace [00:39:48]: Mylon Wallace. I work in the Office of Student Conduct at the University of Alabama. I've had the opportunity in the Office of Student Conduct where I've been able to make a decision that could have faced somebody's life and chosen not to. I feel like that embodies compassion and empathy because at the end of the day, I do still have a job to do and they do still have to be held accountable, but that doesn't mean I have to be malicious with it. Narelle Njok [00:40:12]: Hi, everyone. My name is Nairole Njok. I'm currently a first year graduate student at Iowa State University in the student affairs master's program, and I am from Omaha, Nebraska. As a first year graduate, I really reflect on my experience in undergrad as a member of a a black Greek letter organization and a member of a scholarship community that I was involved Those individuals really embodied what it means to be a student affairs professional to the point where now I'm in the field now and being able to live out my purpose. And so shout out to those individuals who've just been been on my side and sat with me when I've had hard conversations. And they've had those conversations with me even when I didn't wanna hear it. But overall, like, they've really shaped the individual that I am today, and I I appreciate them so. Pedro Ramos [00:41:00]: Hi. This is Pedro Ramos. I am the student engagement manager for the program Exploratory Studies at CU Boulder from Boulder, Colorado. So hello. I remember leading a student leadership conference maybe, like, three years ago at Adams State University, go Grizzlies. And one of the things that I remember asking the students is, where do you come from, who are you now, and where are we going in the future? And it was an embodiment of true inner reflection that we were able to get students to really reflect on their values. And I think that's one of the things about the student affairs professionals is that we're constantly going back to the drawing board and being, alright. Where do I come from? Where am I? And where am I going in the future? So in the same way we ask that for our students, I hope we ask that for ourselves too and really, I don't know, hoping for a really prosperous journey for all of us. Pedro Ramos [00:41:51]: So thank you. Dr. Peggy Crowe [00:41:54]: Hi. I'm Peggy Crowe. I serve as the director of the counseling center and the student accessibility resource center at Western Kentucky University. I think this conversation right here with my dear friend, Chris, is a way that we embody the spirit of the profession. I think all the sessions that we're at, all the reunions that we're having, you know, we're talking about Chris and I are part of the inaugural serve academy and trying to find ways for us to get together and just be in presence with one another. I think we are forgetting the importance hugs that we're receiving. That's the spirit of this profession. That's why we come back here. Dr. Peggy Crowe [00:42:30]: That's why we feel engaged and rejuvenated to go back and do our very important work. Dr. Phil Covington [00:42:36]: I'm Phil Covington. I serve as associate vice vice chancellor for student success at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. Fortunately, those are things that seem to happen almost every day and that's just the point in time where a student finally sees you not as a suit, not as an administrator, not as somebody who's there just checking boxes, but realizes, oh, this guy really cares about me and my experience and my future and my family. So taking the time to slow down long enough to see people for who they are and for who they're becoming and hoping in return that they can do the same for us, it's just so beautiful in this profession. And then getting to come to places like the annual conference and seeing colleagues that we've known for a long time, as well as connecting with new folks and being encouraged and being encouragers. There's so much negativity going on, but there's also incredible opportunity for us to make a difference for one another right now. Rachael Amaro [00:43:33]: Rachel L. Morrow, admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership at Cal State Fullerton. I think recently, for me, a moment that really brings the spirit of student affairs is that we had a student in crisis very recently, and what I appreciated was the connection our students have to not just myself as the advisor for the department, but to my EDD director and even to the faculty made them feel comfortable to let all of us know, hey, there's another member in our cohort who we are concerned about. And going through all of that made us feel like, oh, good. The students trust us to help, and they help each other in moments of crisis. And so we really felt like a team in working through the situation and getting help for the student, and now things are a lot, have improved. And so it's nice for us to know that not only are we doing a good job at connecting with them, but they feel comfortable with us and reaching out when even it's not themselves that need help, but someone in their cohort. Rachel Duvall [00:44:42]: I'm Rachel Duvall. I'm the associate director of volunteer engagement at NASPA. I am from Memphis, Tennessee. I think seeing the KCs and some just all professional organizations who share resources without a sense of competitiveness is what I really have valued in getting to know folks around here. We are all doing the same work, and so rising tides lift all boats kind of situation. And so when we don't compete, but we build on what everyone is doing in a way that feels supportive, I think that's when we are the most successful. Ray Fisco [00:45:14]: Hi. Ray Fisco, he, him pronouns. I am from Colorado Springs, Colorado, and I serve NASPA as the assistant director of Statewide Coalitions Trainings and Partnerships. Certainly, there was a time that I was helping a student that got into trouble for drinking on campus, And, you know, I got to talk to them about making better choices, talking about their goals, talking about, you know, what they want to do in college and how this experience, how getting in trouble shouldn't define who they are. And they really took that conversation, that meeting with me, and really allowed them to, you know, really reflect. And from that moment, it felt like they really grew and really knew what they they wanted to do moving forward and to not allow this experience define who they are. And I, you know, I got to see this student continue to grow and prosper beyond that meeting that, you know, one mistake doesn't define what is what a student does for for the rest of the time in their career, and that really defines to me the moment that experience that I have in student affairs of, like, why I'm in this profession, why I love the work that I get to do. Sean Devoe [00:46:21]: Hi. Sean DeVoe. I serve as the associate vice chancellor for student affairs and dean of students at the University of Massachusetts Boston. At UMass Boston, where we are a primarily or majority minority institution and also majority first gen, on a daily basis, I get to help someone out. And that's that's really sometimes it's as simple as making sure a student understands who to connect with on campus. And sometimes the other day, I met with a student who arrived in our campus and had been, designated as an unhoused student in her high school years, transitioned to us from out of state. And after doing some research, I was able to provide her with what's called in state residency as a state institution, which knocked her tuition down tremendously. And she was thrilled, and I know that I have a student that I've really impacted. Sean Devoe [00:47:10]: So it's a good place to work. Sarah Edmonson [00:47:15]: Hello. I am Sarah Edmonson. She, her pronouns. I serve as the associate director for student involvement at Washington University in Saint Louis or WashU. I think it's such a small example, but to me it is a really good one. In my top five strengths is this developer strength. I lean into heavily in my developmental work with students, and I had a student. They were actually one of my very first student leaders in my full time professional role, and several years later, they had ended up going to grad school. Sarah Edmonson [00:47:40]: They took a job in higher education in student affairs. They were working with teams of students, kind of supervising teams of students like I was when I was in the position where I knew them. And they had a group chat. And this group chat, I was in housing at time when I worked with this student. The staff of that building had a really robust, really funny, clever group chat. I mean, just a lot of kind of funny inside joke, and that culture really that staff team bonded really, really well. Sarah Edmonson [00:48:03]: And Sarah Edmonson [00:48:03]: but now she's managing one of those. And a great team, but it's blowing up at all hours of the day. And you come back and you've been away from your phone for twenty minutes, and you come back to a 50 missed messages in the group chat. And it was just fun to see her reach out to me and say, I had no idea what that was like for you as a professional until I am now in this position. And thank you for the ways. You are always gracious with us and understanding, while also, like, setting those boundaries, turning off the group chat when you needed to have kinda your space and check out. But I thought it was really fun to see her go from being a student to being the professional that is loving working with students and really following a very similar career path and finding just as much meaning and fun, but also balancing some of those tricky pieces that come with working with students and having a very different kind of life than they have. But for me, that was a really beautiful full circle moment and how I got to kind of contribute to sustaining the profession, getting to inspire the next generation of leaders. Sarah Edmonson [00:48:57]: And I hope to do that with my staff and to keep building them up so that they continue to move up and we continue to have a really robust, healthy field. Hi. I'm doctor Sheila Carussell. Dr. Sheila Carusel [00:49:09]: I work at Ohio Northern University, and I'm the director of pharmacy student affairs. Thinking about an experience that really, I think, embodies the spirit of this profession, the thing that recently happened with me, a mother called me and said, whatever you did with my student, I do success coaching, whatever however you worked with her, she's blossoming in her second year. She was never the strongest student in high school and she came to ONU and, yeah, didn't have a good first semester but then worked with you in the spring semester and now she is a TA in a biology lab and she got over a three point o GPA this past fall and I congratulated her and said keep up the great work and I think that really is what embodies our profession. Sylvester Gaskin [00:49:55]: Name is Sylvester Gaskin. I'm a leadership development program leader for the Association of American Medical Colleges. I think, you know, now that I'm kinda adjacent to the field, just hearing from former students saying, like, they're going off to do great things, they're getting great jobs. They're getting promoted or, like, they struggle, then you don't hear from them for a while and they kinda get back to you like they've done well. Like, I I posted a picture on LinkedIn with a colleague of mine that I worked with, like, fifteen years ago and had a bunch of students reach out and be like, y'all were there when we needed you. And, like, I'm I'm thriving now. I bought my first house, paid off my car early. I'm like, I'm having a family. Sylvester Gaskin [00:50:32]: Those are the things I think you don't see immediately, but down the road, you'll see you'll see that result. And I think that that to me, those are moments that, you know, like, okay. Like, yeah. Like, we did something good. Taylor Henderson [00:50:45]: Hi. This is Taylor Henderson. I'm the director of the Reliance Student Experience office at Texas A and M University's Mays Business School. So I've been in this work for about fourteen years now, and I worked in various offices, academic programs, advancement, career services, now student experience office. And watching the student journey Taylor Henderson [00:51:03]: manifest in many different pockets of campus, Taylor Henderson [00:51:03]: I think, is always the different pockets of campus, I think, is always the experience that matters most. And it's it's what embodies the spirit of student affairs because seeing students in all of these different corners and all of these different functional areas kind of growing simultaneously as as individuals and as a collective body is, I think, what student affairs is all about. Terrence Duffy [00:51:28]: Hi. My name is Terrence Duffy, t. I'm a first year graduate student at Baldwin Wallace University in the leadership in higher education program. One that I've definitely noticed is right now, I do an internship with Residence Life and Housing. So seeing a lot of the residents connecting with their RA is has been something that I think has been really rewarding, specifically in their programming. I technically oversee the commuters, but I still work with some of the RAs and go to their programming. So seeing them utilize this lounge that I created is something really impactful for me because not only is it being used by a underrepresented, community at Baldwin Wallace University, but also students who now are like, woah. Like, I didn't even know that this could be an option once I loop move off campus or so I think just kind of having that students realizing that there's other things out there than what they know is something that I think has been really rewarding. Dr. TJ Pegg [00:52:24]: Hello. I'm doctor TJ Pegg from George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. And then a moment in student affairs that, really embodies the spirit of this profession is each year I serve on our Welcome to Mason community committee on campus, and I lead our kickoff to success resource fair where I get to collaborate with campus partners across academic and student affair units. And seeing over 30 units outside our arena, tabling with students and welcoming them to campus really embodies the collaboration effort across our profession. Travis Tucker [00:53:02]: Alright. Hello there. My name is Travis Tucker. I use him as pronouns. I serve as the assistant dean and director of the Carley Field Center at Princeton University. I also am a member of the GSKC as the cochair elect. I mean, this conference really is it. Right? Like, where I am being able to connect with individuals that have made such a lasting impact on me and really being able to reconnect with them in a way that feels just really personal. Travis Tucker [00:53:24]: It really has given me the opportunity to refocus my work and refocus my passion in it, and so I get that every year. So as I sit in this space, I have to honor the fact that this conference is that for me today. Val Shepherd [00:53:40]: Hey. I'm Val Shepherd. I'm a senior analyst with UCLA Recreation. I'm a long time member of the administrators and graduate professional student services knowledge community, and it's such a wonderful community. I've made great friends that I've known for over ten years, and it's wonderful. And I feel like if everyone can have that in student affairs where they make those friends, it really does embody the spirit of this profession. Sabina Kapoor [00:54:13]: Hi, my name is Sabina Kapoor and I'm the new co chair, one of the new co chairs for the SAPA knowledge community with NASPA. I've been in higher ed for a little over twenty years, and in that time, I've served roles in student affairs, academic affairs, student success. And after a little over twenty years, I decided to go back to school full time and pursue my PhD. So if all goes well, I'll get that by the end of this year. So I was for a short period, I was at a community college and it was a dual designated HBCU and HSI. Sabina Kapoor [00:54:47]: So I Sabina Kapoor [00:54:47]: think they're one of the only ones in the nation. It was located in a part of town where it's predominantly low SES. So on my second day on the job, I met someone. I met a student who was walking away from a abusive domestic situation. She was in her early twenties. She had served already, and she had a child. And she was literally living in her car. So I was able to connect her. Sabina Kapoor [00:55:17]: I didn't know all of our services on campus, but I immediately connected her to, we had still some money left. That I knew my first day was that we still had funding residual from COVID that we were still trying to use out. And the institution was using that on a as needed basis to help people with things like immediate needs like housing, food, and so on. So I immediately connected her to that service under my umbrella. But then I also connected her to community connections that I had within the city. So she was able to buy groceries on the immediately. And some of these non profits that work in the community were able to help her find a place to live. So in I'm lucky in that scenario in that I've lived in my hometown for a long time, so I knew a lot of people across the city. Sabina Kapoor [00:56:09]: And then the people and I just met some folks in my new at my then new institution. So we worked with her and I kept in touch with her, kept tabs on her. And then maybe a little about a month or month later or so, she was settled and situated. She really had a lot to offer. And then vice president of The United States has having a symposium in the White House, and it was targeting HBCUs, and the topic was on abortion rights. And so I said, let's have this student represent. I think she can bring experience as a nontraditional student. And the fact that she's a mother, she made a choice, but she had that choice. Sabina Kapoor [00:56:53]: And so and that was a key thing. So I advocated for her to go, and we were able to have her go to this. And when she came back, it was like she was recharged, her energy was renewed, and she was just really excited about being in school. I think this is what she needed to continue going at this institution. And so I worked with a lot of different people on campus and a lot of folks off campus to make this happen, but I really feel like this was what student affairs does is really help develop the student outside the classroom in a holistic way. And so I really felt that that was it. Vanessa Vera [00:57:38]: Hi. My name is Vanessa Vera. I'm a conduct education graduate assistant at the University of Colorado, Colorado Springs. A moment that I recently experienced in the field of student affairs as a new professional of about two years in the field was having a mentee of mine when I was an undergraduate student, which is where I got my start in the field, approach me and tell me that it was my mentoring and and my relationship with her during peer mentoring that gave her the confidence to go for a student body president position at our institution at Northern Arizona University. And I think that moment was something that filled me with a lot of joy. That was my first job in student affairs, and I didn't think that I could have that kind of impact on somebody. And to hear someone say, you gave me the confidence to believe that I could do that and represent my institution and be a leader meant the world to me. And so I think about that moment a lot and just me continuing to be able to impact students in the different fields and areas that I engage with. Dr. Will Simpkins [00:58:37]: This is Will Simpkins. I'm vice president of student affairs at Metropolitan State University of Denver. So my grad school mentor of twenty five years ago sends out an annual Christmas letter. Marsha Gensler Stevens Univ

5/22/25 • 60:42

In the latest episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," listeners are treated to an energetic collection of perspectives straight from the annual NASPA conference. This dynamic, "person on the street" episode—hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton—dives into a pressing topic: How can we better leverage technology to meet the evolving needs of students in higher education? What stands out most from these conversations is the profession's willingness to lean into change, rather than shy away from it. From associate vice presidents to graduate students, professionals across the nation acknowledge that technology—and especially artificial intelligence (AI)—is reshaping student affairs. As Dr. Eddie Martinez puts it, "The bus has left the station … we need to play catch up." There's consensus: AI isn't just a trend. It's a powerful tool that can streamline administrative tasks, enhance communication, and free up time for the real heart of student affairs—the human connection. But it's not all enthusiasm and optimism. Many professionals, like Eileen Hentz and Dr. Bernard Little, admit to their initial hesitation and the need for continual learning. The episode encourages honesty about where we're starting from, and models what it means to be a lifelong learner in higher ed. Just as importantly, ethical use, intentionality, and a focus on access are recognized as essential values as we navigate these new tools. Students themselves are often ahead of the curve, pushing their institutions to integrate technology in ways that feel intuitive and relevant. Yet, as several speakers caution, "simple is better." Too many platforms can overwhelm students, so thoughtful integration—rather than chasing every shiny new thing—is crucial. Streamlining platforms, as Dr. Will Simpkins urges, helps ensure technology truly empowers rather than confuses our campus communities. This episode is a masterclass in collective wisdom: you'll hear voices championing data-driven decisions, advocating for AI workshops, and urging a balance between technological innovation and the irreplaceable human touch. The themes are clear—embrace change, keep learning, focus on ethical and efficient solutions, and never lose sight of the student experience. Tune in to hear these fresh perspectives and discover actionable insights that you can bring back to your own work. Whether you're tech-savvy or just starting your journey, you'll leave inspired to reimagine how technology can support both you and your students. Listen now and join the conversation! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to Student Affairs Voices from the Field. We're here with our three conference episodes that feature your voices. Chris and I were able to move about the conference and connected with over 60 of you who shared your thoughts on the three conference themes. We asked you each one question on each theme, and we're going to be bringing you one episode per question. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:46]: So today's question will be on theme one, which was well-being and healthy excellence in student affairs. Next week, we'll be bringing you theme two in changing the student affairs profession, and then finally, theme three, which is sustaining and celebrating the student affairs profession. Today's question was, how can student affairs professionals model healthy excellence in their own lives and institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being? If you joined us, thank you so much for sharing your voice, and we hope that you enjoy hearing from your colleagues and peers. Eileen Hentz [00:01:15]: Hello. My name is Eileen Hence. I am the program director of academic and student services at the University of Maryland Department of Aerospace Engineering. Do as I say, not as I do, because I am not I will admit that I am not the best at modeling healthy excellence in my own life, but I really truly believe it's important to do so by having a healthy work life balance and making sure you remember your priorities and trying your best to ensure that you don't lose yourself in your work. I think that's something that I need to do more of, is remembering that I do have an important life outside of work, and it is okay to say no, and it is okay to set boundaries on our time, and still pour as much of our heart and soul into our jobs as possible during the times we should be working and when we should not be working to make sure that we take that time for ourselves and not feel guilty about it. Dr. Alyssa Bivens [00:02:07]: Hi. I'm doctor Alyssa Bivens. I'm representing George Mason University. I'm in their very new graduate division as a graduate career and professional development program coordinator. I think one of the ways that student affairs professionals that we can model healthy excellence in our own lives and institutional cultures is really trying to be the people that we want our students to be. So for example, I work with a lot of graduate professional assistants, and I try to model professional behaviors both with them, treating them how I wanna be treated, and also showing them good work and professionalization skills from organization to just general things that will help them moving forward in life so that they have a model that they can potentially look towards. I try to be, not always. Anurant Ranieri [00:02:53]: I'm Anurant Ranieri. I'm from Texas A and M University in College Station, Texas. I am currently serve as the associate director of career services for Mays Business School. I think showcasing balance of, like, walking the walk and talking the talk. Right? Like, that's really an important aspect of student affairs that sometimes we don't do. We we tell students to take care of themselves, but we're not always taking care of our own selves. And so making sure that we take the advice that we give students most of the time. I know I'm really bad about that, but I sometimes will be, like, check myself and be, like, oh, right. Anurant Ranieri [00:03:26]: What I would tell a student in this moment, I need to tell myself I need Mimi Benjamin [00:03:29]: to get more sleep or I need to do this thing. Anurant Ranieri [00:03:30]: And so I think that's really important. Amy Law [00:03:34]: Hello. My name is Amy Law. I am a GAP from the graduate associate program with NASPA. I am from California. I currently attend the University of Southern California for my degree in post secondary administration and student affairs with my master's program. Especially as student affairs professionals, I feel like we can really model healthy excellence in our own lives and even contribute to that institutional culture by being student facing even as we go into higher levels that are not so student facing. I think maintaining a level of student support and student advisory, like, committees even and leveraging, like, student voices is definitely a perfect way to model healthy excellence because students know best what they need and students know best how to advocate for themselves. And if you are not, you know, in a point where you're at least, like, reaching out or asking them how they need the support, I feel like it's a little bit hard to understand them in that way. Amy Law [00:04:38]: So always making sure that you have another set of eyes, whether it's from a group of students or even just one student, will make such a big difference. Angela Watts [00:04:50]: Angela Watts, the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio School Of Nursing. I'm the director for student success. I think that student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence in their own lives by really small ways in our day to day lives. Simple things like not eating lunch at your desk, taking that time away to rejuvenate during that hour and and really just modeling the behavior that we encourage in our students. When you take time off from work, actually disconnecting as much as possible and just really demonstrating for them how to have as much balance as possible even though we all know that it's impossible to be completely balanced with work life, but just demonstrating as much as possible the healthy behaviors that we encourage in our students. Asia Jones [00:05:39]: Asia Jones, associate director at the National Association for Student Affairs Professionals, AKA NASBA. So I believe one of the ways that we model healthy excellence is resting. Rest is resistance. So many years in student affairs, we've thought we've had to work sixteen and seventeen hour days to get things done. And the way we model in our own lives that healthy excellence is knowing when to take breaks, knowing when to rest, and setting boundaries around that to be able to still get the work done. But if we don't have any rest or any sleep, then we're doing things on a not even a half empty cup, like, maybe three fourths of a cup, and that's not working anymore. And so we've gotta find different ways to to set up boundaries so that within ourselves so that we can be the best to other people. Dr. Bernard Little [00:06:27]: I'm doctor Bernard Little, vice president for student affairs at Prairie State College. I think that one way that we can model healthy excellence in our own lives is being honest about our truths and what we experience. When I took on vice president for student affairs role, I also started therapy, my therapy journey, and it has really enhanced my life both personally and professionally. And I've been open and honest about that with my staff and, with others who work with me. And it has been a refreshing journey to see how they've been impacted by my story and my experience. Camden Doolittle [00:07:04]: My name is Camden Doolittle. I use they and them pronouns. I'm coming to you from the NASPA annual conference in New Orleans, but I am from the University of California Davis in the Sacramento region of California. I think healthy excellence for me looks like, especially in this political climate, owning who I am, all the time and with joy. I'm a trans and non binary person and we have so many of our students who share those same identities. And right now they're under attack. At federally, at all levels of government and society and showing up as a transhuman, that model is healthy excellence and and modeling boundaries. I don't have to be at all things all the time, but I am there for my community. Camden Doolittle [00:07:41]: Show students they can show up and step back as they need to because I think that's all the more important as we move through college and whatever comes next in this world. Charles [00:07:52]: I'm Charles, and we can model healthy excellence in our own lives while taking care of student well-being by finding ways to kinda put our mental health first. Relaxing, taking that time to really unplug, breathe, because you can't pour from an empty cup. So you gotta be ready and able. And Jessica agrees, so we share the same answer here. David Chow [00:08:20]: Right? Yes. Yes. Chris Hall [00:08:23]: Hi. I'm Chris Hall. I'm the director of residence life and student housing at Georgetown University Law Center. I think one of the things that we can do to really help our students is by modeling good work activities, making sure that, you know, we are working reasonable hours. We are, both in terms of daily and weekly, that we are not doing the kinds of things that we don't want our students to do. We don't wanna be, you know, burning the midnight oil or, putting things off to the last minute, things like that. I think that's probably what would help them with their well-being as much as anything. Clarissa Lau [00:08:59]: I am Clarissa Lau. My pronouns are she and her, and I work at the University of Toronto. I think the first is recognizing work life balance, being able to practice that, obviously, model that for students when we try to encourage students to study hard, play hard, and I think that's equally also the role of a student affairs professional. Dr. Dan Maxwell [00:09:21]: My name is Dan Maxwell. I serve as the interim vice president for student success and student life at the University of Houston downtown. When I think about modeling a healthy excellence in my life and the culture at the institution, I would say that I try to be my authentic self wherever I show up. I think by being comfortable with who I am and showing people the comfort of my identities and being in my spaces, I think when we can bring 100% of ourselves into our spaces, then we can do our better work in that way. Dan Balchak [00:09:52]: Dan Balchak, interim dean of students at Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. We can experience healthy excellence in our own lives by taking care of us and time management. And I can tell you I'm not very good at that. I've been working way too hard, but we really need to make space for ourselves and give ourselves grace to be healthy, to be able to support our students. David Chow [00:10:15]: Hello. My name is David Chow. I am currently the chair of the technology knowledge community for NASPA. So I think student affairs professionals, obviously, we have to take care of ourselves in order for us to effectively take care of our students. It's easy to forget sometimes because we want to serve our students. We wanna be there for them. But if we we don't practice what we preach to them, then we struggle and and our health is damaged and then ultimately we can't help our students. So I think just it's kind of practicing what we preach. Dan Balchak [00:10:41]: My name David Zimoyski. I'm senior associate dean of students at Boston University. This is an uncertain time in the higher education landscape, and I think what I am trying to do right now as best I can is stay calm, stay focused, be thoughtful, display care for others. And in doing so, I feel good about how I am spending my time day to day. And I think that is a, hopefully, a good example for others in my professional community. Dr. Deborah Wright [00:11:13]: I am doctor Deborah Wright, and I am with the George Washington University in Washington, DC. I am doctor Deborah Wright, and I am with the George Washington University in Washington, DC. Deidre Cobb [00:11:24]: Hi. My name is Diedrich Cobb, and I am from Fairmont State University in West Virginia, and I am the student success coordinator. I was hired under the title three grant with the intentions of being, first and foremost, a bridge between academic affairs and student affairs along with other responsibilities such as forming a student success support team and also overseeing a student ambassador program called the Student Empowerment Liaisons. Dr. Eddie Martinez [00:11:55]: Hello, everyone. My name is Eddie Martinez. I serve as the associate dean for student affairs at Suffolk County Community College. I think that we, as professionals, need to continue to honor ourselves. And when we're tired, take that break. When you wake up and you just feel, I need a mental health day, it's okay. That's why we have them. All too often, we in student affairs continue to push, push, push, and it's at the expense of our own health. Dr. Eddie Martinez [00:12:20]: And by default, our students don't get the best of us. So making sure you check-in with yourself, I make sure I do my best to try to check-in with myself. Don't always succeed, but I do try. Ellie McMillan [00:12:32]: My name is Ellie McMillan. I'm the graduate apprentice at the Center for Leadership in Elon University. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm a graduate student in the Master of Art in Higher Education program at Elon. I think modeling well-being is super important because oftentimes, we find that students have a culture of busyness, and we discourage our students from overcommitting themselves or being too busy. But if we want them to kind of model that, we also have to model that for ourselves. So we have to carve out time within within our days. We have to kind of cut down the meetings that we do, limit ourselves to three meetings a day, if that's possible. I think that's a really important first step of, like, we can't be asking our students to be doing things that we can't ourselves do. Erica Stocks [00:13:28]: Erica Stocks, director of student affairs at Boston University's Henry M. Goldman School of Dental Medicine. I think it's really just about when we're where we're speaking to students or we're having interactions. I think particularly in the work that I do is when I'm doing presentations, taking a moment to kind of teach students, okay, let's take a deep breath. Let's all kind of collectively come together to take a pause in a moment. And I think it's also that we're trying to be really intentional about the programming that we're doing, about making sure that students are taking breaks to appreciate the small Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:13:56]: things in life. Erica Stocks [00:13:58]: And that also goes with us to kind of going out and taking breaks from our desk and walking out into the student activities area. And so I think that there's it means so much more that we do. I think that we're thinking about well-being and particularly from a student perspective and also as a professional. Right? It's multifaceted. It's not just, oh, I need to work out. Oh, I need to do this. It's like taking a moment, taking a breath, taking a pause, whatever it might be. Dr. George McClellan [00:14:21]: I'm George McClellan, professor of higher education at the University of Mississippi. So I've been in student affairs in one way or another for about forty something odd years. And one of the things I learned early on in the profession was that you aren't gonna be able to help take care of other people until you learn to take care of yourself. So it's a really important question. And I think one of the keys is being comfortable acknowledging that you're not comfortable. Right? That you need rest, that you need time, that you need to reflect, that you need whatever it is. You need challenge. You need something to pick you up. Dr. George McClellan [00:14:53]: I think it's really important to to, a, to be tuned into yourself in that way, but, b, to be okay saying I need help, I need something, that sort of thing. I think a lot of people, particularly early in their careers, are so concerned that if they acknowledge any need that somehow they're confessing a great sin, but that's simply not the case. As you move through the field, I think what you can do is help the people who report to you. I'm not a I'm not a big fan of those hierarchies, but but to help those people who report to you in an organization know that it's it's okay to say those things. Right? That you can project a signal that says it's okay. And one of the easiest way to do that is for you to when somebody says to you, how are you doing? Just give them the sort of, oh, I'm fine. You know, everything's fine. Right? But it's, you know, I'm having an okay day, but I'm a little rundown today. Dr. George McClellan [00:15:43]: Maybe not enough veggies, but today, I'm a little tired. So I think that's really important. And I think when it comes to institutional culture, it's the advocacy for prioritizing health and well-being. And, you know, we we have a million things going on. And as staffs are cut and there are funding reductions and resource reductions of all various kinds, it's gonna some of the first things that are gonna go if we're not advocating are taking care of staff. And so we have to advocate for ourselves. We have to be okay doing that. Hallie Vavris [00:16:18]: Hello. My name is Hallie Vavris. I am a graduate student at Baldwin Wallace University in the leadership in higher education program here. We are role models for students first and foremost, and I think that higher education professionals, you know, sometimes we can think about more of the logistics of things, like, oh, like, what are we teaching? Because we we are in education. However, I think something that needs to be talked about more is that students are always, like, watching us, like, just our behaviors and our choices. I know for myself, I wanna work in a community college specifically. So, you know, helping students and meeting them where they are at is a really big aspect, you know, supporting students' well-being and just being a student's student advocate. I really like the word advocate because you are alongside the student developmentally wherever they're at. Jackie Yun [00:17:11]: I'm Jackie Yoon. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the student center at Harvard Griffin GSAS. I think student affairs professionals can model healthy behaviors by being our whole person. So, obviously, being involved at work and doing good work to support students, but also taking care of our physical health and our mental health and well-being, and sharing that and modeling that where we can with both our staff, but also with our students. I feel feel grateful to be in the student activities space because I feel like that's essential to the mission that we have. At the student center at Harvard, we're really focused on reminding students that they are full beings with interests that go beyond their academic pursuits, and they do better academically when they engage in those things that bring them joy. And graduate school is hard and long, and we need victories. So we need moments of creation, connection, and opportunities to do things that just spark joy. Jackie Yun [00:18:12]: And I feel like I'm constantly reminding very high achieving students that are very focused in their discipline that it's okay to have fun in graduate school. Dr. Jacob Diaz [00:18:23]: My name is Jacob Diaz. I serve as the associate vice chancellor for student success at the University of South Florida, Saint Petersburg campus. So I believe the work on healthy excellence starts with me as an educator and doing my own work on trying to get clear about what works for me to maintain a sense of peace and harmony while amidst, at times, a very chaotic environment. And so I try to think about what makes me feel good, what grounds me each day, and then reminding myself that this is important work to do and that I'm contributing even if it's in a small way. James Quiesenberry [00:19:05]: Hi. This is James Quisenberry. I'm executive director of student affairs technology at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. Our campuses have to adopt what's called, being a health promoting university, something called the Okanagan Charter. I encourage people to check it out. But it's not just leaders in student affairs, but it's leaders on campus that have to take a look at what's going on in their environment, what's going on in their climate, and be comfortable in supporting their staff in leading healthy lives to achieve the best that they can. James Stewart [00:19:42]: Hi. I'm James Stewart, associate vice president for student development and achievement at Coppin State University. In this, to me, we have to be the role model and examples for students. We often tell students to balance well-being, to balance their lives, to pursue personal interests, and then we don't do those own things. We can always be bombarded with the day's fires and all the work we have to do, but we also have to be thinking about how are we in the best place to, as they say, put on our own oxygen mask first before helping others. Jamie Haney [00:20:17]: Hi. I'm Jamie Haney, associate dean for the Graduate College at University of Illinois Chicago. I think one of the best ways to do that is to share our lives with students. Just letting them know that the challenges we face in our own lives are similar to what they face in their lives, and how we cope with those, and how we try to balance everything. I'm a wife and a mother and a full time employee. Once upon a time, I was also a full time doctoral student, and so letting students know that I was experiencing a lot of the same challenges and experiences that they were going through was really helpful for them. I think it helps them to know that we have experienced or are experiencing what they are going through and just knowing that we are human just like they are. So I think that's an important way to share our own lives with students. Dr. Jamie Washington [00:21:03]: Hi. I'm Jamie Washington, and I am the president and founder of the Washington Consulting Group and of the Social Justice Institute, Training Institute. So when I think about, again, student affairs professionals and well-being and how we can continue to support excellence, what comes up for me is that we continue to live into what our why is and our commitment to always putting students first, remembering that we got into this profession because we cared about the experience of students and what they get to do and what they get to become. So our primary goal in higher education is to prepare the next generation of leaders and those who will go forth from our spaces and do good work and make a difference in the world. So we get to continue to remember that that's our charge, that we stay in that, and we help them navigate through difficult and challenging times, and we navigate it along with them. Dr. Jeanna Mastrodicasa  [00:22:00]: Hi. This is Gina Masterdecasa, and I am the director of the Office of Institutional Assessment at the University of Florida. And I've been there for more than twenty seven years in a total of six roles. Really doing your very best to figure out what you can tell people you do with your time, being able to articulate it. It can be as simple as family time, catching up on the bachelor, whatever other inane things that make you a better human, but tell people that. So the other thing I think that I have done in my own career is I have been open with people about my own personal struggles challenges that I'm facing, both as a human being and part of a complex family and the whole thing. And I've been upfront about it and visible about using my time for mental health purposes. And And I think that's something I'm I'm doing for myself, but I'm really doing it to show people it's okay. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:22:56]: Hey. My name is Josie Alquist. I use sheher pronouns. I am a digital engagement consultant, executive strategist, coach, and speaker. Modeling healthy excellence is going to take a level of letting go of perfection if you are gonna ensure your own well-being as well as your students. I know that's really hard for us in higher ed. We have very high standards, but good is also really good. Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:23:26]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, sheher pronouns, vice president for student success for the Indiana University System. That's not a system. We can call it a multi campus university if you would like. That whole concept of being balanced when you talk about work and you talk about outcomes and being driven in addition to being balanced with yourself. And so whether that's life, whether that is how you kind of navigate your energy even at work, how you set healthy expectations for yourself. Don't undersell it or you're not stretching enough. Don't overdo it or you exhaust yourself. And so that's kind of where I think that lies. Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:23:59]: And how can they do it? I think you gotta take an honest stock of where you are. What are the expectations that are placed on you and really think through how you can bring that concept of healthy excellence into the space. And I would also say that if you get to the point where you're like, this institutional culture is not supporting that for me and it's unsustainable, you gotta start looking. And I know that's hard, and for some folks, it's almost impossible. But for your own well-being, I think you gotta do it. I'm Justin Jeffrey. Justin Jeffrey [00:24:26]: I'm the assistant vice president at Texas A and M University. So I think about how I role model healthy, excellent to my own life and how it's important for us to do that as professionals is just being present when you need to. And but for students to also see that you take time for yourself and that you are not at every event. I think sometimes we feel that we have that pressure to be at everything, but I think when you pick and choose what's most important to be at and then when you have conversations with the students about why maybe you couldn't join that evening and you have a family commitment or you needed to go to the gym, just being really honest and transparent about that so that they know that you're a true person, real person, and you're trying to balance your health and well-being as well. Jawan Jacobs [00:25:06]: Hey, y'all. My name is Jawan Jacobs. I am currently an assistant director in the Student Involvement and Leadership office at Duke University. When thinking about well-being and healthy excellence and student affairs, right, I think one of the things that student affairs professionals can do to really model healthy excellence in their own lives is being proactive with what rest, relaxation, rejuvenation looks like. I think we're talking about it from the perspective of institutional culture. Making sure that you're advocating for yourself, I think, is always fair and you're right. Right? So making sure that in all of the things that you are being upfront with your supervisor, with your team, whether that be your staff or your students, and really letting them know what does it look when I'm having a 10 out of 10 day? How does that differ from when I'm having a three out of 10 day? Right? And what does that mean for support? Kevin Willis [00:25:54]: Hi. My name is Kevin Willis. I am a membership manager with NASPA's membership team. I'm originally from Kentucky. I think that student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence in their lives, by thinking about healthy boundaries and encouraging their students to do so as well. I always tell my students when I supervise them in the past that they can't serve others if their cup is not full either. And so I always want people to think about how they can be there for the students and show that care and dedication while also maintaining boundaries. And maybe that is letting them know of the resources for particular conversation topics or letting them know this is where my strengths are and this is where I'll be for you, and then let's find you somebody that can match you in the other areas that you need them from. Herbie Gibson [00:26:34]: Herbie r Gibson, sheher, associate director of residence education for student learning and leadership, Michigan State University. So when I think about modeling a healthy excellence within the field, first it actually starts with us rethinking the ideal worker norms that exist within the field. We've been socialized to believe that we have to work these long days, that we have to be accessible at all times of the day to our students, and that in no way is healthy whatsoever. And so how are we rethinking the work that we are doing to serve our students? I would also say that rest is important. Take your paid time off because PTO also stands for prepare the others. And so making sure that you are engaging in rest, taking vacation time, setting boundaries as a way to reevaluate your relationship to the work, and that's ways in which you can model that healthy practice. Dr. Laura Devoe [00:27:26]: Hi. My name is doctor Laura DeVoe, and I'm a visiting assistant professor at Boston College. When I'm thinking about the well-being and healthy excellence in student affairs, I don't really know what else to say, but get off campus. You have to get off campus. You have to touch grass, as the kids say, and that grass can be off campus. You don't have to just be living your life in your university or college polo shirt. Move off campus, find some space, and get some life off campus that makes you happy, and find your people elsewhere. You will always have your people on campus. Lauren Zielinski [00:28:09]: My name is Lauren Zielinski. I'm the associate director for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Office of Graduate Studies. I feel that student affairs professionals can model excellence in their own lives by learning to say no more, by putting boundaries on easy things such as when to stop checking their email at the night, setting up those clear boundaries of when their day starts and when their day ends so they can have that time to their selves to spend with family, friends, hobbies, anything that's gonna take them and help them disconnect from the work to give them that work life balance. Marcus . [00:28:48]: My name is Marcus. I'm from Singapore, and I'm representing a social enterprise called Sojourner's Agora, but I also work in student affairs in the National University of Singapore, taking care of student life for the undergraduates. I think an important thing with my experience has been to understand emotional and physical boundaries in your work, especially as someone who lives on campus and serves students twenty four four seven. It's wonderful to see them as friends, but at the same time, it pays a lot to understand that, there is boundary between students whom you get to know professionally as well as the ones that you know through your own organic social activities outside. And that helps because you wanna be an example also of, drawing good boundaries, healthy boundaries so that your students can also model after that. Mary Pat Morgan [00:29:36]: My name is Mary Pat Morgan, and I'm a program coordinator with the engineering program at the universities at Shady Grove. I think it's really important for student affairs professionals to model healthy excellence by bringing it back to the basics. Those things that we talk about during orientation, during those first advising sessions with students. I often tell myself it's important not to be a hypocrite, though always taking time to take a lunch. Even if it's ten minutes at your desk, take a lunch. Make sure you get that food in you and fuel you to get back to the work. Sleep is so important. The physical and mental preparation for the day. Mary Pat Morgan [00:30:14]: I think the physical health is such an important component. Moving that mental preparation before the day. Dr. Melanie Mitchell [00:30:23]: Hello. My name is doctor Melanie Mitchell, and I have the pleasure of serving as the director of the Impact Leadership Village at North Carolina State University. A moment that comes to mind for me when I think about being a student affairs affairs professional and modeling healthy excellence is thinking about how I do that on a daily basis in small ways. Right? And so an example that comes to mind is thinking about how to make sure I schedule lunch and take lunch, sometimes engage in taking a walk around campus. Also, just like we schedule all the things in our work, it's important that we're taking time even after work to pour back into us. Right? Because you can't pour from an empty cup. And when students see you modeling what it means to be well, that helps them think about that as they navigate their college career. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:31:16]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I am currently serving as the interim dean of students at Bay Path University, and I've been working in higher education for over twenty years at this point. I think one of our challenges as student affairs professionals is we tend to work a lot of hours and sometimes challenge ourselves with boundaries around work life balance. And I think it's so important that we model healthy excellence in our lives for our students. And I think there are lots of ways to do it, but one thing I would say that's really important is think about how you model that in the office in front of students. So when a crisis comes up, how are you reacting to it? Can you react in a way that is somewhat calm and to say, okay. Let's go talk about this. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:32:01]: Let's work this out. Or are you freaking out as everyone else is freaking out? At a basic level, separate from a crisis, I also think about lunch. I have a bad habit of working through lunch. And there are many times over the twenty years in higher ed is I thought this is such an awful modeling for my students. Like, if my students in the office see me working through lunch, what does that say to them about self care and priority? So I really try and be intentional when I remember to do so about saying, okay, I'm gonna even take a few minutes to just sit quietly and eat or take a ten minute break and go for a walk just unwind and and sort of model those healthy behaviors. Melissa Aponte [00:32:42]: I am doctor Melissa Aponte. I serve as assistant dean of students at Rochester Institute of Technology. I think one way that student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence in their own lives while supporting student well-being is by sharing with students some of the challenges that they face in their own lives. I think I've utilized examples from my own life and been open and transparent in sharing with my own students some of the challenges I've faced and how I've overcome them. And then I try to work with students to dig into their own life experiences and help them see how they've overcome challenges and that they have resiliency in themselves. So when they come to college and they're facing different issues, they can dig into those past experiences. So I think sharing is important and being open, I think, and showing that you are a whole human being. I do like to share tidbits of my life with my students as appropriate. Melissa Ward [00:33:42]: I am Melissa Ward. I am director of student engagement at the College of Engineering at Oregon State University. So one thing I think I need to work on is being a better model of healthy excellence in how I work with our students. I try very hard to give them breaks and model when I'm taking breaks, but then you always wanna be responsive. Right? Because my weekends are sometimes when they can get their work done. So I think I need to be better at that. So I'm still learning. Michael Allensworth [00:34:13]: Hello. My name is Michael Allensworth, and I work in the prevention, outreach, and education department at Michigan State University as our director for employee and graduate student programs. I'm thinking about how can we learn to hone in prioritizing the different priorities that we have. And so thinking about not everything can be a crisis, but focusing on what is important for a particular point in time, I think is something that's gonna help all of us better model healthy excellence in our organizations and within our units. Dr. Michael Sheehane [00:34:42]: Howdy. My name is Michael Sheehan. I work at Texas A and M University in career services. Specifically, I'm the director of campus programs in the career center. Been there for about fifteen years now. So an example of how I do this, I think it actually starts with coming to the realization that you can't do it all and it's okay to, prioritize and say no to certain things. And so at some point, you gotta say, so how much effort and energy do I have to give? Make sure that you're living out excellence in your own life and being fully invested in the things you choose to be invested in, but knowing that you can't be involved in everything all the time. And I think that's something that some students have a particular time struggling with. Dr. Michael Sheehane [00:35:16]: So they wanna do all the things all the time. And so I think modeling, that is okay to prioritize and let some things go, and that's okay too. Dr. Michelle Burke [00:35:26]: Michelle Burke, Grand Rapids, Michigan. I work with the Michigan Center for Adult College Success. I've been a NASPA member for a long time. I think one thing that can be done to be available to students in their time is to work on staggered schedules for staff to recognize that not everybody's gonna work eight to five or eight to 8AM to 5AM, and that make sure that you're taking care of your team so they can take care of students. Model that as a supervisor by taking care of yourself and allowing your own self care time too. Dr. Mimi Benjamin [00:36:00]: I'm Mimi Benjamin. I'm a professor in the student affairs in higher education program at Indiana University of Pennsylvania. And one of the ways that I think student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence is to get sleep and talk about the fact that they actually do sleep. I think that sleeping underrated well-being tasks that we can take on, and I think the more we talk about how we rest, the more others will see the value in that. Mylon Wallace. I work in the office of student conduct at the University of Mylon Wallace [00:36:32]: Mylon Wallace. I work in the Office of Student Conduct at the University of Alabama, and I believe that student affairs professionals can just model it by showing students that we are all human, really, is the most important aspect of it. We all gonna make mistakes. We're all gonna be held accountable for our mistakes, and it's best we learn from them and keep going. Hi, everyone. Dr. Mimi Benjamin [00:36:53]: My name is Nairole Njok. I'm currently a first year graduate student at Iowa State University in in the student affairs master's program, and I am from Omaha, Nebraska. I like to think about how we give tips to our students when it comes to their well-being and how we should actually be modeling those tips. And so it'd be really counterproductive if we asked practitioners are telling students to take care of themselves, set boundaries if we aren't doing that ourselves. And so living by your tips is how I'd see this. And I think in addition to that, being aware of the culture on your campus is really important because you're out of touch. It is really hard to support your students and to be able to kinda understand where their experience is when it comes to their well-being. If you aren't aware of what's going on on campus and especially since that will affect your students. Dr. Mimi Benjamin [00:37:45]: And so being aware of what's going on on your campus, as it pertains to the culture and living up to your own tips slash expectations that you have for your students when it comes to their well-being. Mylon Wallace [00:37:57]: Hi. This is Pedro Ramos. I am the student engagement manager for the program Exploratory Studies at CU Boulder from Boulder, Colorado. So hello. I think one of the biggest things that I can think about is knowing when to take a step back and saying no and being able to observe all the different pieces going on when we're making decisions about students. I feel like sometimes we go into a situation and we're really passionate about a certain initiative or a certain project. And we also can get crispy in that in that efforts. And so just reminding ourselves, okay, let me regroup myself, come back to this experience once I feel like I have everything prepared or I feel ready, or maybe even saying no is an important lesson that I think we can even tell our students that they don't need to be everything for everyone, at their institution. Dr. Peggy Crowe [00:38:52]: Hi. I'm Peggy Crowe. I serve as the director of the counseling center and the student accessibility resource center at Western Kentucky University. Well, I think the pandemic showed us a lot of ways that we can provide more healthy excellence and balance in our lives. There is no such thing as balance. I don't like when people say I'm looking for balance because there is no such thing. But I think if we role model that for other people, taking care of our families, finding balance in our lives, maybe working remotely if that is a possibility while still maintaining a great work ethic. I think we can do that and then we're role modeling for students. Dr. Peggy Crowe [00:39:27]: So if I'm not responding to an email at midnight every night or on the weekends, then I'm role modeling healthy balance and well-being to students. Dr. Phil Covington [00:39:37]: I'm Phil Covington. I serve as associate vice chancellor for student success at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. Really understanding and pausing long enough to know what are my individual values and the boundaries associated with those, how much flexibility am I willing to engage over the course of a year. Obviously, there are seasons within each year that we've got, you know, higher loads that may have to, be taken. There's times and moments of crisis, obviously, that are gonna take additional effort from us, but it's it's knowing that we've got these things in place. One of the things that I've done over the course of the last year is just even prioritizing throughout the course of the day, at least three times a week, trying to get out and take a twenty minute walk across campus. Never fails. Maybe another staff member wants to come along with me. Dr. Phil Covington [00:40:21]: Maybe I'm running into colleagues along the way and they ask if you can talk. I said, yeah, if you'll walk and so those are pieces that are making a difference, hopefully modeling, but also I know making a difference for me and my own health. Rachel Omara [00:40:36]: Rachel O'Mara, admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership at Cal State Fullerton. I think that a good way to model sort of healthy excellence is to remember that we're all going through a lived experience and that as professionals, maybe we sometimes appear like we know more than our students or the people that we serve, and I think it's really crucial for us to make those connections and make the spaces really important for us to show ourselves and the things that we care about so that the students understand that we have those connections to them. Even if you have random posters in your director of volunteer engagement at NASPA. Rachel Duvall [00:41:29]: I am from director of volunteer engagement at NASPA. I am from Memphis, Tennessee. I'm Rachel Duvall. I'm the associate director of volunteer engagement at NASPA. I am from Memphis, Tennessee. So how student affairs can professionals can model healthy excellence in their own lives and institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being. I think the really big thing here is to remember your roots in your professional journey and how you have evolved throughout the profession. Everyone's trajectory looks different, so honoring that in all folks. Rachel Duvall [00:41:59]: And so if your journey doesn't look the same as someone else's, really being conscious of that and supporting folks in whatever they decide to do in their current role, next role, and all that and encouraging them to get involved with the professional track that works for them. So if that's regions or knowledge communities with us here at NASPO or a steering committee, I think that is how you can encourage someone to find community at their institution or with a professional organization, but just supporting them in whatever decisions they make. Ray Fisco [00:42:27]: Hi. Ray Fisco, he, him pronouns. I am from Colorado Springs, Colorado, and I serve NASPA as the assistant director of statewide coalitions, trainings, and partnerships. I think this is a really fantastic question. I actually run a coalition in Colorado where we have a campaign called the Time to Ungrind campaign, where it really looks at the culture around hustling. Because I know we as student affairs professionals fall into this culture, and we ultimately do see that with our students as well. So I think it's important that when we tell students about really taking care of yourself and really not falling into this culture of feeling like you have have to hustle and grind all the time to feel successful. I think it's important to model to students that, you know, it's important to rest. Ray Fisco [00:43:13]: It's important to have self care. It's important to take a break. It's important to say no. Because especially in the field of student affairs, it's, like, very hard to say no. But when you're able to say no, that really shows growth, that really shows the opportunity to really be taking care of yourself and really be taking care of your own well-being. Sean Devoe [00:43:36]: Hi. Sean Devoe. I serve as the associate vice chancellor for student affairs and dean of students at the University of Massachusetts Boston. Really focused on making sure that you're doing good stuff for yourself in your work that excites you and that really promotes the best work that you can do on behalf of your students. If you're not doing stuff that's exciting you, you're probably not doing stuff that's exciting your students as well. Sarah Edmonson [00:44:04]: Hello. I am Sarah Edmonson. She, her pronouns, I serve as the associate director for student involvement at Washington University in Saint Louis or WashU. For me personally, one of the things I think is really important is setting boundaries. I set boundaries with the students I work with, and I'm very clear about communication. I do share my phone number with a handful of students that I work with, but I make it very clear that I reserve the right to not respond outside of business hours. I also try to do a really good job of working when I'm at work and not working when I'm not at work. So try to be really thoughtful about turning off notifications to technology and Teams, Outlook, all of those different pieces so that I'm not really distracted by or getting sucked into work while I'm not there. Sarah Edmonson [00:44:45]: I also try to think about, like, if I need to do work outside of my kind of typical work schedule, which what is a typical work schedule in student affairs, but I try to be thoughtful of, like, is this urgent? Do I need to do this now? Or, like, can this really wait, and can I prioritize it, you know, tomorrow or when I have a moment? End up really doing better work because I think part of that balance piece is having a healthy, productive life outside of work and and then supporting that culture for my staff. Absolutely. And so really encouraging them to take their vacation time, to take flex time where it's appropriate, to have varied interests outside of work that does not that have nothing to do with work. And I think modeling those things for our students and explaining that of, like, I'm not gonna get to your email that you sent at 8PM until tomorrow or maybe even the next day, depending on what I've got going on, especially if it's not urgent, and saying, like, we don't need to buy into this this hustle culture or this everything is urgent culture when everything is not necessarily urgent. There are some things that are, but outside of that, we need to be really thoughtful and model for our students what is productive and healthy. Dr. Sheila Carusel [00:45:48]: Hi. I'm doctor Sheila Carussell. I work at Ohio Northern University, and I'm the director of pharmacy student affairs. I've been in student affairs for over twenty five years, and I think one of the best ways that we, as professionals, can model the healthy excellence in our lives and supporting our institutional cultures is to really work on showing that work life balance. And so what that means is whenever it's possible, leave your office, go have fun, go home, and do what's best for you. Talk with your students about your hobbies. Talk about how you de stress and that you can refill how you refill your your cup for the students. Sylvester Gaskin [00:46:38]: Name is Sylvester Gaskin. I'm a leadership development program leader for the Association of American Medical Colleges. We see this field as like an extension of ourselves when it may be at times we just need to see it just as a job, as a career, and to put yourself first. So the best advice that I got about this was actually from my father, who said you have to make business decisions. And sometimes the best business decision you could make is to just take care of yourself. And so in my experience, I didn't really model healthy behaviors and I ended up burning out, getting really sick. And I found that the institution really wasn't concerned about my own well-being. And so I see myself as the CEO of my own business and sometimes the best interest of the business is that I didn't go to a late night event or I didn't attend a meeting and and if I got in trouble for it, well, you know, that's just part of the business. Dr. Alyssa Bivens [00:47:29]: So Taylor Henderson [00:47:30]: Hi. This is Taylor Henderson. I'm the director of the Reliance Student Experience office at Texas A and M University's Mays Business School. I think it's really important to acknowledge challenge. I think sometimes we find ourselves in our profession staying late, helping students with things after hours, before work, after work, on the weekends, and just we feel such a responsibility to be 100% available because we know that the student experience happens primarily of their classroom. And I think that that is an unrealistic expectation for any profession. And it's an unrealistic model for us to put in front of students whenever they see us as working professionals. So I think, you know, establishing boundaries and showing them that it's okay to have boundaries for for yourself and to take care of yourself is just so important. Terrence Duffy [00:48:17]: Hi. My name is Terrence Duffy, t. I'm a first year graduate student at Baldwin Wallace University in the leadership in higher education program. My biggest thing is boundaries. People always assume boundaries just kind of mean those are your you will not pass. It's like, no. It's just setting healthy boundaries with not only where you work or your school work because, you know, you do need a break from time to time. So I think showing them that, yes, as professionals, we work hard and long sometimes. Terrence Duffy [00:48:44]: Having those times where we're like, okay. We need to stop for a minute, take a step back and take a breather, I think is something that can really help show students that they can also do the same, especially in their schoolwork. Dr. TJ Pegg [00:49:02]: Hello. I'm doctor TJ Pegg from George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. Hello. I'm doctor TJ Pegg from from George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. I think as far as student affairs professionals and modeling excellence in our own lives and institutional cultures is really communicating our boundaries and letting students know that they have the ability to do that as well and setting their boundaries as within their program, setting their boundaries and how they're getting engaged on campus, and letting their professors, faculty, and staff on campus, and campus resources that they utilize know what their boundaries are so that they can be their best self when they're on campus. We talk to students a lot of times in the work that I do about meeting their own definition of success, and part of that is setting boundaries and communicating with those that are in their circle to support their experience. Travis Tucker [00:49:55]: Alright. Hello there. My name is Travis Tucker. I use him as pronouns. I serve as the assistant dean and director of the Carley Field Center at Princeton University. I also am a member of the JSKC as the cochair elect. So when I think about healthy excellence, and thinking about marrying and monitoring healthy excellence in my life, I really think about creating proper boundaries. What does it look like for me to really model with navigating how to turn off my email at a given time? I'm really navigating expectations around what that looks like for my staff. Travis Tucker [00:50:24]: I'm really encouraging them to really think about what it makes sense for them to do. I really don't ever try to put people into a box. I don't believe in toxic positivity when it comes to healthy healthy boundaries, and so really making sure that people have the that capacity to learn and lean into that is really important to me. Val Shepherd [00:50:44]: Hi. I'm Val Shepherd. I'm a senior analyst with UCLA Recreation, practicing what we preach. Basically, doing the same things, modeling that for our students. We can't expect our students to do anything different than we do. Talking about our families, working across across disciplines, partnering with academic affairs, especially in student affairs. I've had wonderful partnerships with colleagues in the School of Public Health, for example. So I think definitely modeling what we would like students to do is how I see Sabina Kapoor [00:51:21]: that. Hi. My name is Sabina Kapoor and I'm the new co chair, one of the new co chairs for the SAPA knowledge community with NASPA. I've been in higher ed for a little over twenty years and in that time I've served roles in student affairs, academic affairs, student success, and after a little over twenty years I decided to go back to school full time and pursue my PhD. So if all goes well, I'll get that by the end of this year. I think this is something where there needs to be an organizational cultural shift. While we can't focus on the whole institution, maybe just focusing on the student affairs division and the workplace culture there. And so I think it begins with leadership to say in student affairs to say, work life balance. Val Shepherd [00:52:05]: And, you know, sometimes I think student affairs staff, they're so devoted to the job that they will maybe not do a flex schedule or compensate their hours that over work, you know, over forty hours or whatever the minimum is for full time. But there needs to be a workplace cultural shift to say, and we all know this, is that we all need to be healthy so that we can best serve others. But sometimes we get in a zone and we compromise our health, skip lunch to meet with the student or stay just two hours extra to finish decorating for an event the next day. And so the problem is that one, sometimes leadership doesn't realize that that's what you're doing. And then if you've agreed to work a certain schedule and you kinda veer away from that, then it's really hard for leadership to compensate at that point. So when I say cultural shift, I mean leadership mid level supervisors facing staff work together and be proactive with scheduling, knowing peak times, knowing when events are, etcetera. So I think this is a bigger thing and it requires an organizational or divisional workplace cultural shift. And this is including institutional cultures and that ties into that part of institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being. Val Shepherd [00:53:27]: The key of this is that there is a servicing students. You can manage and operate in a way that you are serving students without overworking some individuals or student student affairs staff. You can work schedules can be arranged in a way to where they get a break and at the same time they get a break but at the same time they continue with that student service. Vanessa Vera [00:53:55]: Hi. My name is Vanessa Vera. I'm a conduct education graduate assistant at the University of Colorado, Colorado Springs. I think what comes to mind is really a human centered approach to navigating student support and just the communication and relationships that we value in our life. I think sometimes just having grace with ourselves, having grace with our colleagues, having grace for our students, and that sometimes life happens to put it simply, and that there really is no right way to go about things. I think sometimes in the procedure of every day and the routines that we fall into, it's easy to get in a groove and expect things to go the way they do, but they never really do, and there's so much uncertainty every day in our lives that we navigate professionally, personally, and just in all spaces. Dr. Will Simpkins [00:54:43]: This is Will Simpkins. I'm vice president of student affairs at Metropolitan State University of Denver. I think you have to make the time. You have to create the boundaries and make it a priority in your life. You can't be everything to everyone. And if your own internal sense of validation is how many people that I helped today, you're not helping yourself. And so always put at the front, what do I need to get through today? Whether that's coffee or a walk with the dog or a massage at the end of the day or a workout, whatever it is, put the boundaries around the work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:55:25]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@nasa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:56:04]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next Dr. Jill Creighton [00:56:16]: time.

5/8/25 • 55:38

Student affairs is a profession built on the foundation of supporting others—walking alongside students as they navigate challenges, pursue growth, and build their futures. But as highlighted in the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, modeling "healthy excellence" goes beyond what we say. It's about what we do, how we set boundaries, and the ways we show up for ourselves and each other. So what does healthy excellence look like in practice? The episode features over 60 voices—new professionals, seasoned leaders, and everyone in between—offering authentic, actionable reflections on how we can care for ourselves while nurturing student wellbeing. A recurring theme is the importance of role modeling. As Eileen Hentz notes, we need to set boundaries, carve out "off" time, and not feel guilty for prioritizing ourselves. This was echoed by many who admitted that while we tell students to take care of themselves, we often fail to follow our own advice. But it's about more than just taking a lunch or using vacation days. Dr. Bernard Little opened up about seeking therapy and the positive ripple effect it had on his staff. Others, like Camden Doolittle, spoke to the importance of authenticity, especially in representing marginalized identities—showing up as your whole self is, in itself, an act of healthy excellence. Several speakers detailed the need to challenge institutional norms. From rethinking the "ideal worker" who is always on-call, to advocating for organizational culture shifts, this episode calls on student affairs divisions and leadership to normalize work-life boundaries (and yes, actually unplugging at the end of the day). There's also an emphasis on being transparent with students about our own challenges and the strategies we use to navigate them. As Jamie Haney and others shared, letting students know we are human too makes space for honest conversations about balance, imperfection, and resilience. Most importantly, the episode reminds us that caring for ourselves is not selfish. As the expression goes, "You can't pour from an empty cup." By prioritizing our health—mental, emotional, and physical—we become better mentors, leaders, and advocates for our students. If you're looking for practical inspiration and validation from colleagues across the country, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in for real talk and real strategies that can help you and your institution make sustainable, healthy excellence a reality. Catch the episode and join the conversation on nurturing well-being in student affairs—because thriving professionals create thriving campuses. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to Student Affairs Voices from the Field. We're here with our three conference episodes that feature your voices. Chris and I were able to move about the conference and connected with over 60 of you who shared your thoughts on the three conference themes. We asked you each one question on each theme, and we're going to be bringing you one episode per question. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:46]: So today's question will be on theme one, which was well-being and healthy excellence in student affairs. Next week, we'll be bringing you theme two in changing the student affairs profession, and then finally, theme three, which is sustaining and celebrating the student affairs profession. Today's question was, how can student affairs professionals model healthy excellence in their own lives and institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being? If you joined us, thank you so much for sharing your voice, and we hope that you enjoy hearing from your colleagues and peers. Eileen Hentz [00:01:15]: Hello. My name is Eileen Hence. I am the program director of academic and student services at the University of Maryland Department of Aerospace Engineering. Do as I say, not as I do, because I am not I will admit that I am not the best at modeling healthy excellence in my own life, but I really truly believe it's important to do so by having a healthy work life balance and making sure you remember your priorities and trying your best to ensure that you don't lose yourself in your work. I think that's something that I need to do more of, is remembering that I do have an important life outside of work, and it is okay to say no, and it is okay to set boundaries on our time, and still pour as much of our heart and soul into our jobs as possible during the times we should be working and when we should not be working to make sure that we take that time for ourselves and not feel guilty about it. Dr. Alyssa Bivens [00:02:07]: Hi. I'm doctor Alyssa Bivens. I'm representing George Mason University. I'm in their very new graduate division as a graduate career and professional development program coordinator. I think one of the ways that student affairs professionals that we can model healthy excellence in our own lives and institutional cultures is really trying to be the people that we want our students to be. So for example, I work with a lot of graduate professional assistants, and I try to model professional behaviors both with them, treating them how I wanna be treated, and also showing them good work and professionalization skills from organization to just general things that will help them moving forward in life so that they have a model that they can potentially look towards. I try to be, not always. Amerette Ranieri [00:02:53]: I'm Amerette Ranieri. I'm from Texas A and M University in College Station, Texas. I am currently serve as the associate director of career services for Mays Business School. I think showcasing balance of, like, walking the walk and talking the talk. Right? Like, that's really an important aspect of student affairs that sometimes we don't do. We we tell students to take care of themselves, but we're not always taking care of our own selves. And so making sure that we take the advice that we give students most of the time. I know I'm really bad about that, but I sometimes will be, like, check myself and be, like, oh, right. What I would tell a student in this moment, I need to tell myself I need to get more sleep or I need to do this thing. And so I think that's really important. Amy Law [00:03:34]: Hello. My name is Amy Law. I am a GAP from the graduate associate program with NASPA. I am from California. I currently attend the University of Southern California for my degree in post secondary administration and student affairs with my master's program. Especially as student affairs professionals, I feel like we can really model healthy excellence in our own lives and even contribute to that institutional culture by being student facing even as we go into higher levels that are not so student facing. I think maintaining a level of student support and student advisory, like, committees even and leveraging, like, student voices is definitely a perfect way to model healthy excellence because students know best what they need and students know best how to advocate for themselves. And if you are not, you know, in a point where you're at least, like, reaching out or asking them how they need the support, I feel like it's a little bit hard to understand them in that way. Amy Law [00:04:38]: So always making sure that you have another set of eyes, whether it's from a group of students or even just one student, will make such a big difference. Angela Watts [00:04:50]: Angela Watts, the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio School Of Nursing. I'm the director for student success. I think that student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence in their own lives by really small ways in our day to day lives. Simple things like not eating lunch at your desk, taking that time away to rejuvenate during that hour and and really just modeling the behavior that we encourage in our students. When you take time off from work, actually disconnecting as much as possible and just really demonstrating for them how to have as much balance as possible even though we all know that it's impossible to be completely balanced with work life, but just demonstrating as much as possible the healthy behaviors that we encourage in our students. Asia Jones [00:05:39]: Asia Jones, associate director at the National Association for Student Affairs Professionals, AKA NASBA. So I believe one of the ways that we model healthy excellence is resting. Rest is resistance. So many years in student affairs, we've thought we've had to work sixteen and seventeen hour days to get things done. And the way we model in our own lives that healthy excellence is knowing when to take breaks, knowing when to rest, and setting boundaries around that to be able to still get the work done. But if we don't have any rest or any sleep, then we're doing things on a not even a half empty cup, like, maybe three fourths of a cup, and that's not working anymore. And so we've gotta find different ways to to set up boundaries so that within ourselves so that we can be the best to other people. Dr. Bernard Little [00:06:27]: I'm doctor Bernard Little, vice president for student affairs at Prairie State College. I think that one way that we can model healthy excellence in our own lives is being honest about our truths and what we experience. When I took on vice president for student affairs role, I also started therapy, my therapy journey, and it has really enhanced my life both personally and professionally. And I've been open and honest about that with my staff and, with others who work with me. And it has been a refreshing journey to see how they've been impacted by my story and my experience. Camden Doolittle [00:07:04]: My name is Camden Doolittle. I use they and them pronouns. I'm coming to you from the NASPA annual conference in New Orleans, but I am from the University of California Davis in the Sacramento region of California. I think healthy excellence for me looks like, especially in this political climate, owning who I am, all the time and with joy. I'm a trans and non binary person and we have so many of our students who share those same identities. And right now they're under attack. At federally, at all levels of government and society and showing up as a transhuman, that model is healthy excellence and and modeling boundaries. I don't have to be at all things all the time, but I am there for my community. Show students they can show up and step back as they need to because I think that's all the more important as we move through college and whatever comes next in this world. Charles [00:07:52]: I'm Charles, and we can model healthy excellence in our own lives while taking care of student well-being by finding ways to kinda put our mental health first. Relaxing, taking that time to really unplug, breathe, because you can't pour from an empty cup. So you gotta be ready and able. And Jessica agrees, so we share the same answer here. Chris Hall [00:08:23]: Hi. I'm Chris Hall. I'm the director of residence life and student housing at Georgetown University Law Center. I think one of the things that we can do to really help our students is by modeling good work activities, making sure that, you know, we are working reasonable hours. We are, both in terms of daily and weekly, that we are not doing the kinds of things that we don't want our students to do. We don't wanna be, you know, burning the midnight oil or, putting things off to the last minute, things like that. I think that's probably what would help them with their well-being as much as anything. Clarissa Lau [00:08:59]: I am Clarissa Lau. My pronouns are she and her, and I work at the University of Toronto. I think the first is recognizing work life balance, being able to practice that, obviously, model that for students when we try to encourage students to study hard, play hard, and I think that's equally also the role of a student affairs professional. Dr. Dan Maxwell [00:09:21]: My name is Dan Maxwell. I serve as the interim vice president for student success and student life at the University of Houston downtown. When I think about modeling a healthy excellence in my life and the culture at the institution, I would say that I try to be my authentic self wherever I show up. I think by being comfortable with who I am and showing people the comfort of my identities and being in my spaces, I think when we can bring 100% of ourselves into our spaces, then we can do our better work in that way. Dan Balchak [00:09:52]: Dan Balchak, interim dean of students at Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. We can experience healthy excellence in our own lives by taking care of us and time management. And I can tell you I'm not very good at that. I've been working way too hard, but we really need to make space for ourselves and give ourselves grace to be healthy, to be able to support our students. David Chow [00:10:15]: Hello. My name is David Chow. I am currently the chair of the technology knowledge community for NASPA. So I think student affairs professionals, obviously, we have to take care of ourselves in order for us to effectively take care of our students. It's easy to forget sometimes because we want to serve our students. We wanna be there for them. But if we we don't practice what we preach to them, then we struggle and and our health is damaged and then ultimately we can't help our students. So I think just it's kind of practicing what we preach. Dan Balchak [00:10:41]: My name David Zimoyski. I'm senior associate dean of students at Boston University. This is an uncertain time in the higher education landscape, and I think what I am trying to do right now as best I can is stay calm, stay focused, be thoughtful, display care for others. And in doing so, I feel good about how I am spending my time day to day. And I think that is a, hopefully, a good example for others in my professional community. Dr. Deborah Wright [00:11:13]: I am doctor Deborah Wright, and I am with the George Washington University in Washington, DC. I am doctor Deborah Wright, and I am with the George Washington University in Washington, DC. Deidre Cobb [00:11:24]: Hi. My name is Diedrich Cobb, and I am from Fairmont State University in West Virginia, and I am the student success coordinator. I was hired under the title three grant with the intentions of being, first and foremost, a bridge between academic affairs and student affairs along with other responsibilities such as forming a student success support team and also overseeing a student ambassador program called the Student Empowerment Liaisons. Dr. Eddie Martinez [00:11:55]: Hello, everyone. My name is Eddie Martinez. I serve as the associate dean for student affairs at Suffolk County Community College. I think that we, as professionals, need to continue to honor ourselves. And when we're tired, take that break. When you wake up and you just feel, I need a mental health day, it's okay. That's why we have them. All too often, we in student affairs continue to push, push, push, and it's at the expense of our own health. And by default, our students don't get the best of us. So making sure you check-in with yourself, I make sure I do my best to try to check-in with myself. Don't always succeed, but I do try. Ellie McMillan [00:12:32]: My name is Ellie McMillan. I'm the graduate apprentice at the Center for Leadership in Elon University. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm a graduate student in the Master of Art in Higher Education program at Elon. I think modeling well-being is super important because oftentimes, we find that students have a culture of busyness, and we discourage our students from overcommitting themselves or being too busy. But if we want them to kind of model that, we also have to model that for ourselves. So we have to carve out time within within our days. We have to kind of cut down the meetings that we do, limit ourselves to three meetings a day, if that's possible. I think that's a really important first step of, like, we can't be asking our students to be doing things that we can't ourselves do. Erica Stocks [00:13:28]: Erica Stocks, director of student affairs at Boston University's Henry M. Goldman School of Dental Medicine. I think it's really just about when we're where we're speaking to students or we're having interactions. I think particularly in the work that I do is when I'm doing presentations, taking a moment to kind of teach students, okay, let's take a deep breath. Let's all kind of collectively come together to take a pause in a moment. And I think it's also that we're trying to be really intentional about the programming that we're doing, about making sure that students are taking breaks to appreciate the small things in life. Erica Stocks [00:13:58]: And that also goes with us to kind of going out and taking breaks from our desk and walking out into the student activities area. And so I think that there's it means so much more that we do. I think that we're thinking about well-being and particularly from a student perspective and also as a professional. Right? It's multifaceted. It's not just, oh, I need to work out. Oh, I need to do this. It's like taking a moment, taking a breath, taking a pause, whatever it might be. Dr. George McClellan [00:14:21]: I'm George McClellan, professor of higher education at the University of Mississippi. So I've been in student affairs in one way or another for about forty something odd years. And one of the things I learned early on in the profession was that you aren't gonna be able to help take care of other people until you learn to take care of yourself. So it's a really important question. And I think one of the keys is being comfortable acknowledging that you're not comfortable. Right? That you need rest, that you need time, that you need to reflect, that you need whatever it is. You need challenge. You need something to pick you up. Dr. George McClellan [00:14:53]: I think it's really important to to, a, to be tuned into yourself in that way, but, b, to be okay saying I need help, I need something, that sort of thing. I think a lot of people, particularly early in their careers, are so concerned that if they acknowledge any need that somehow they're confessing a great sin, but that's simply not the case. As you move through the field, I think what you can do is help the people who report to you. I'm not a I'm not a big fan of those hierarchies, but but to help those people who report to you in an organization know that it's it's okay to say those things. Right? That you can project a signal that says it's okay. And one of the easiest way to do that is for you to when somebody says to you, how are you doing? Just give them the sort of, oh, I'm fine. You know, everything's fine. Right? But it's, you know, I'm having an okay day, but I'm a little rundown today. Maybe not enough veggies, but today, I'm a little tired. So I think that's really important. And I think when it comes to institutional culture, it's the advocacy for prioritizing health and well-being. And, you know, we we have a million things going on. And as staffs are cut and there are funding reductions and resource reductions of all various kinds, it's gonna some of the first things that are gonna go if we're not advocating are taking care of staff. And so we have to advocate for ourselves. We have to be okay doing that. Hallie Vavris [00:16:18]: Hello. My name is Hallie Vavris. I am a graduate student at Baldwin Wallace University in the leadership in higher education program here. We are role models for students first and foremost, and I think that higher education professionals, you know, sometimes we can think about more of the logistics of things, like, oh, like, what are we teaching? Because we we are in education. However, I think something that needs to be talked about more is that students are always, like, watching us, like, just our behaviors and our choices. I know for myself, I wanna work in a community college specifically. So, you know, helping students and meeting them where they are at is a really big aspect, you know, supporting students' well-being and just being a student's student advocate. I really like the word advocate because you are alongside the student developmentally wherever they're at. Jackie Yun [00:17:11]: I'm Jackie Yoon. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the student center at Harvard Griffin GSAS. I think student affairs professionals can model healthy behaviors by being our whole person. So, obviously, being involved at work and doing good work to support students, but also taking care of our physical health and our mental health and well-being, and sharing that and modeling that where we can with both our staff, but also with our students. I feel feel grateful to be in the student activities space because I feel like that's essential to the mission that we have. At the student center at Harvard, we're really focused on reminding students that they are full beings with interests that go beyond their academic pursuits, and they do better academically when they engage in those things that bring them joy. And graduate school is hard and long, and we need victories. So we need moments of creation, connection, and opportunities to do things that just spark joy. And I feel like I'm constantly reminding very high achieving students that are very focused in their discipline that it's okay to have fun in graduate school. Dr. Jacob Diaz [00:18:23]: My name is Jacob Diaz. I serve as the associate vice chancellor for student success at the University of South Florida, Saint Petersburg campus. So I believe the work on healthy excellence starts with me as an educator and doing my own work on trying to get clear about what works for me to maintain a sense of peace and harmony while amidst, at times, a very chaotic environment. And so I try to think about what makes me feel good, what grounds me each day, and then reminding myself that this is important work to do and that I'm contributing even if it's in a small way. James Quiesenberry [00:19:05]: Hi. This is James Quisenberry. I'm executive director of student affairs technology at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. Our campuses have to adopt what's called, being a health promoting university, something called the Okanagan Charter. I encourage people to check it out. But it's not just leaders in student affairs, but it's leaders on campus that have to take a look at what's going on in their environment, what's going on in their climate, and be comfortable in supporting their staff in leading healthy lives to achieve the best that they can. James Stewart [00:19:42]: Hi. I'm James Stewart, associate vice president for student development and achievement at Coppin State University. In this, to me, we have to be the role model and examples for students. We often tell students to balance well-being, to balance their lives, to pursue personal interests, and then we don't do those own things. We can always be bombarded with the day's fires and all the work we have to do, but we also have to be thinking about how are we in the best place to, as they say, put on our own oxygen mask first before helping others. Jamie Haney [00:20:17]: Hi. I'm Jamie Haney, associate dean for the Graduate College at University of Illinois Chicago. I think one of the best ways to do that is to share our lives with students. Just letting them know that the challenges we face in our own lives are similar to what they face in their lives, and how we cope with those, and how we try to balance everything. I'm a wife and a mother and a full time employee. Once upon a time, I was also a full time doctoral student, and so letting students know that I was experiencing a lot of the same challenges and experiences that they were going through was really helpful for them. I think it helps them to know that we have experienced or are experiencing what they are going through and just knowing that we are human just like they are. So I think that's an important way to share our own lives with students. Dr. Jamie Washington [00:21:03]: Hi. I'm Jamie Washington, and I am the president and founder of the Washington Consulting Group and of the Social Justice Institute, Training Institute. So when I think about, again, student affairs professionals and well-being and how we can continue to support excellence, what comes up for me is that we continue to live into what our why is and our commitment to always putting students first, remembering that we got into this profession because we cared about the experience of students and what they get to do and what they get to become. So our primary goal in higher education is to prepare the next generation of leaders and those who will go forth from our spaces and do good work and make a difference in the world. So we get to continue to remember that that's our charge, that we stay in that, and we help them navigate through difficult and challenging times, and we navigate it along with them. Dr. Jeanna Mastrodicasa  [00:22:00]: Hi. This is Jeanna Mastrodicasa, and I am the director of the Office of Institutional Assessment at the University of Florida. And I've been there for more than twenty seven years in a total of six roles. Really doing your very best to figure out what you can tell people you do with your time, being able to articulate it. It can be as simple as family time, catching up on the bachelor, whatever other inane things that make you a better human, but tell people that. So the other thing I think that I have done in my own career is I have been open with people about my own personal struggles challenges that I'm facing, both as a human being and part of a complex family and the whole thing. And I've been upfront about it and visible about using my time for mental health purposes. And And I think that's something I'm I'm doing for myself, but I'm really doing it to show people it's okay. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:22:56]: Hey. My name is Josie Alquist. I use sheher pronouns. I am a digital engagement consultant, executive strategist, coach, and speaker. Modeling healthy excellence is going to take a level of letting go of perfection if you are gonna ensure your own well-being as well as your students. I know that's really hard for us in higher ed. We have very high standards, but good is also really good. Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:23:26]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, sheher pronouns, vice president for student success for the Indiana University System. That's not a system. We can call it a multi campus university if you would like. That whole concept of being balanced when you talk about work and you talk about outcomes and being driven in addition to being balanced with yourself. And so whether that's life, whether that is how you kind of navigate your energy even at work, how you set healthy expectations for yourself. Don't undersell it or you're not stretching enough. Don't overdo it or you exhaust yourself. And so that's kind of where I think that lies. And how can they do it? I think you gotta take an honest stock of where you are. What are the expectations that are placed on you and really think through how you can bring that concept of healthy excellence into the space. And I would also say that if you get to the point where you're like, this institutional culture is not supporting that for me and it's unsustainable, you gotta start looking. And I know that's hard, and for some folks, it's almost impossible. But for your own well-being, I think you gotta do it. I'm Justin Jeffrey. Justin Jeffrey [00:24:26]: I'm the assistant vice president at Texas A and M University. So I think about how I role model healthy, excellent to my own life and how it's important for us to do that as professionals is just being present when you need to. And but for students to also see that you take time for yourself and that you are not at every event. I think sometimes we feel that we have that pressure to be at everything, but I think when you pick and choose what's most important to be at and then when you have conversations with the students about why maybe you couldn't join that evening and you have a family commitment or you needed to go to the gym, just being really honest and transparent about that so that they know that you're a true person, real person, and you're trying to balance your health and well-being as well. Jawan Jacobs [00:25:06]: Hey, y'all. My name is Jawan Jacobs. I am currently an assistant director in the Student Involvement and Leadership office at Duke University. When thinking about well-being and healthy excellence and student affairs, right, I think one of the things that student affairs professionals can do to really model healthy excellence in their own lives is being proactive with what rest, relaxation, rejuvenation looks like. I think we're talking about it from the perspective of institutional culture. Making sure that you're advocating for yourself, I think, is always fair and you're right. Right? So making sure that in all of the things that you are being upfront with your supervisor, with your team, whether that be your staff or your students, and really letting them know what does it look when I'm having a 10 out of 10 day? How does that differ from when I'm having a three out of 10 day? Right? And what does that mean for support? Kevin Willis [00:25:54]: Hi. My name is Kevin Willis. I am a membership manager with NASPA's membership team. I'm originally from Kentucky. I think that student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence in their lives, by thinking about healthy boundaries and encouraging their students to do so as well. I always tell my students when I supervise them in the past that they can't serve others if their cup is not full either. And so I always want people to think about how they can be there for the students and show that care and dedication while also maintaining boundaries. And maybe that is letting them know of the resources for particular conversation topics or letting them know this is where my strengths are and this is where I'll be for you, and then let's find you somebody that can match you in the other areas that you need them from. Herbie Gibson [00:26:34]: Herbie Gibson, sheher, associate director of residence education for student learning and leadership, Michigan State University. So when I think about modeling a healthy excellence within the field, first it actually starts with us rethinking the ideal worker norms that exist within the field. We've been socialized to believe that we have to work these long days, that we have to be accessible at all times of the day to our students, and that in no way is healthy whatsoever. And so how are we rethinking the work that we are doing to serve our students? I would also say that rest is important. Take your paid time off because PTO also stands for prepare the others. And so making sure that you are engaging in rest, taking vacation time, setting boundaries as a way to reevaluate your relationship to the work, and that's ways in which you can model that healthy practice. Dr. Laura Devoe [00:27:26]: Hi. My name is doctor Laura DeVoe, and I'm a visiting assistant professor at Boston College. When I'm thinking about the well-being and healthy excellence in student affairs, I don't really know what else to say, but get off campus. You have to get off campus. You have to touch grass, as the kids say, and that grass can be off campus. You don't have to just be living your life in your university or college polo shirt. Move off campus, find some space, and get some life off campus that makes you happy, and find your people elsewhere. You will always have your people on campus. Lauren Zielinski [00:28:09]: My name is Lauren Zielinski. I'm the associate director for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Office of Graduate Studies. I feel that student affairs professionals can model excellence in their own lives by learning to say no more, by putting boundaries on easy things such as when to stop checking their email at the night, setting up those clear boundaries of when their day starts and when their day ends so they can have that time to their selves to spend with family, friends, hobbies, anything that's gonna take them and help them disconnect from the work to give them that work life balance. Marcus . [00:28:48]: My name is Marcus. I'm from Singapore, and I'm representing a social enterprise called Sojourner's Agora, but I also work in student affairs in the National University of Singapore, taking care of student life for the undergraduates. I think an important thing with my experience has been to understand emotional and physical boundaries in your work, especially as someone who lives on campus and serves students twenty four four seven. It's wonderful to see them as friends, but at the same time, it pays a lot to understand that, there is boundary between students whom you get to know professionally as well as the ones that you know through your own organic social activities outside. And that helps because you wanna be an example also of, drawing good boundaries, healthy boundaries so that your students can also model after that. Mary Pat Morgan [00:29:36]: My name is Mary Pat Morgan, and I'm a program coordinator with the engineering program at the universities at Shady Grove. I think it's really important for student affairs professionals to model healthy excellence by bringing it back to the basics. Those things that we talk about during orientation, during those first advising sessions with students. I often tell myself it's important not to be a hypocrite, though always taking time to take a lunch. Even if it's ten minutes at your desk, take a lunch. Make sure you get that food in you and fuel you to get back to the work. Sleep is so important. The physical and mental preparation for the day. I think the physical health is such an important component. Moving that mental preparation before the day. Dr. Melanie Mitchell [00:30:23]: Hello. My name is doctor Melanie Mitchell, and I have the pleasure of serving as the director of the Impact Leadership Village at North Carolina State University. A moment that comes to mind for me when I think about being a student affairs affairs professional and modeling healthy excellence is thinking about how I do that on a daily basis in small ways. Right? And so an example that comes to mind is thinking about how to make sure I schedule lunch and take lunch, sometimes engage in taking a walk around campus. Also, just like we schedule all the things in our work, it's important that we're taking time even after work to pour back into us. Right? Because you can't pour from an empty cup. And when students see you modeling what it means to be well, that helps them think about that as they navigate their college career. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:31:16]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I am currently serving as the interim dean of students at Bay Path University, and I've been working in higher education for over twenty years at this point. I think one of our challenges as student affairs professionals is we tend to work a lot of hours and sometimes challenge ourselves with boundaries around work life balance. And I think it's so important that we model healthy excellence in our lives for our students. And I think there are lots of ways to do it, but one thing I would say that's really important is think about how you model that in the office in front of students. So when a crisis comes up, how are you reacting to it? Can you react in a way that is somewhat calm and to say, okay. Let's go talk about this. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:32:01]: Let's work this out. Or are you freaking out as everyone else is freaking out? At a basic level, separate from a crisis, I also think about lunch. I have a bad habit of working through lunch. And there are many times over the twenty years in higher ed is I thought this is such an awful modeling for my students. Like, if my students in the office see me working through lunch, what does that say to them about self care and priority? So I really try and be intentional when I remember to do so about saying, okay, I'm gonna even take a few minutes to just sit quietly and eat or take a ten minute break and go for a walk just unwind and and sort of model those healthy behaviors. Melissa Aponte [00:32:42]: I am doctor Melissa Aponte. I serve as assistant dean of students at Rochester Institute of Technology. I think one way that student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence in their own lives while supporting student well-being is by sharing with students some of the challenges that they face in their own lives. I think I've utilized examples from my own life and been open and transparent in sharing with my own students some of the challenges I've faced and how I've overcome them. And then I try to work with students to dig into their own life experiences and help them see how they've overcome challenges and that they have resiliency in themselves. So when they come to college and they're facing different issues, they can dig into those past experiences. So I think sharing is important and being open, I think, and showing that you are a whole human being. I do like to share tidbits of my life with my students as appropriate. Melissa Ward [00:33:42]: I am Melissa Ward. I am director of student engagement at the College of Engineering at Oregon State University. So one thing I think I need to work on is being a better model of healthy excellence in how I work with our students. I try very hard to give them breaks and model when I'm taking breaks, but then you always wanna be responsive. Right? Because my weekends are sometimes when they can get their work done. So I think I need to be better at that. So I'm still learning. Michael Allensworth [00:34:13]: Hello. My name is Michael Allensworth, and I work in the prevention, outreach, and education department at Michigan State University as our director for employee and graduate student programs. I'm thinking about how can we learn to hone in prioritizing the different priorities that we have. And so thinking about not everything can be a crisis, but focusing on what is important for a particular point in time, I think is something that's gonna help all of us better model healthy excellence in our organizations and within our units. Dr. Michael Sheehane [00:34:42]: Howdy. My name is Michael Sheehan. I work at Texas A and M University in career services. Specifically, I'm the director of campus programs in the career center. Been there for about fifteen years now. So an example of how I do this, I think it actually starts with coming to the realization that you can't do it all and it's okay to, prioritize and say no to certain things. And so at some point, you gotta say, so how much effort and energy do I have to give? Make sure that you're living out excellence in your own life and being fully invested in the things you choose to be invested in, but knowing that you can't be involved in everything all the time. And I think that's something that some students have a particular time struggling with. So they wanna do all the things all the time. And so I think modeling, that is okay to prioritize and let some things go, and that's okay too. Dr. Michelle Burke [00:35:26]: Michelle Burke, Grand Rapids, Michigan. I work with the Michigan Center for Adult College Success. I've been a NASPA member for a long time. I think one thing that can be done to be available to students in their time is to work on staggered schedules for staff to recognize that not everybody's gonna work eight to five or eight to 8AM to 5AM, and that make sure that you're taking care of your team so they can take care of students. Model that as a supervisor by taking care of yourself and allowing your own self care time too. Dr. Mimi Benjamin [00:36:00]: I'm Mimi Benjamin. I'm a professor in the student affairs in higher education program at Indiana University of Pennsylvania. And one of the ways that I think student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence is to get sleep and talk about the fact that they actually do sleep. I think that sleeping underrated well-being tasks that we can take on, and I think the more we talk about how we rest, the more others will see the value in that. Mylon Wallace. I work in the office of student conduct at the University of Mylon Wallace [00:36:32]: Mylon Wallace. I work in the Office of Student Conduct at the University of Alabama, and I believe that student affairs professionals can just model it by showing students that we are all human, really, is the most important aspect of it. We all gonna make mistakes. We're all gonna be held accountable for our mistakes, and it's best we learn from them and keep going. Hi, everyone. Nairole Njok [00:36:53]: My name is Nairole Njok. I'm currently a first year graduate student at Iowa State University in in the student affairs master's program, and I am from Omaha, Nebraska. I like to think about how we give tips to our students when it comes to their well-being and how we should actually be modeling those tips. And so it'd be really counterproductive if we asked practitioners are telling students to take care of themselves, set boundaries if we aren't doing that ourselves. And so living by your tips is how I'd see this. And I think in addition to that, being aware of the culture on your campus is really important because you're out of touch. It is really hard to support your students and to be able to kinda understand where their experience is when it comes to their well-being. If you aren't aware of what's going on on campus and especially since that will affect your students. And so being aware of what's going on on your campus, as it pertains to the culture and living up to your own tips slash expectations that you have for your students when it comes to their well-being. Mylon Wallace [00:37:57]: Hi. This is Pedro Ramos. I am the student engagement manager for the program Exploratory Studies at CU Boulder from Boulder, Colorado. So hello. I think one of the biggest things that I can think about is knowing when to take a step back and saying no and being able to observe all the different pieces going on when we're making decisions about students. I feel like sometimes we go into a situation and we're really passionate about a certain initiative or a certain project. And we also can get crispy in that in that efforts. And so just reminding ourselves, okay, let me regroup myself, come back to this experience once I feel like I have everything prepared or I feel ready, or maybe even saying no is an important lesson that I think we can even tell our students that they don't need to be everything for everyone, at their institution. Dr. Peggy Crowe [00:38:52]: Hi. I'm Peggy Crowe. I serve as the director of the counseling center and the student accessibility resource center at Western Kentucky University. Well, I think the pandemic showed us a lot of ways that we can provide more healthy excellence and balance in our lives. There is no such thing as balance. I don't like when people say I'm looking for balance because there is no such thing. But I think if we role model that for other people, taking care of our families, finding balance in our lives, maybe working remotely if that is a possibility while still maintaining a great work ethic. I think we can do that and then we're role modeling for students. So if I'm not responding to an email at midnight every night or on the weekends, then I'm role modeling healthy balance and well-being to students. Dr. Phil Covington [00:39:37]: I'm Phil Covington. I serve as associate vice chancellor for student success at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. Really understanding and pausing long enough to know what are my individual values and the boundaries associated with those, how much flexibility am I willing to engage over the course of a year. Obviously, there are seasons within each year that we've got, you know, higher loads that may have to, be taken. There's times and moments of crisis, obviously, that are gonna take additional effort from us, but it's it's knowing that we've got these things in place. One of the things that I've done over the course of the last year is just even prioritizing throughout the course of the day, at least three times a week, trying to get out and take a twenty minute walk across campus. Never fails. Maybe another staff member wants to come along with me. Maybe I'm running into colleagues along the way and they ask if you can talk. I said, yeah, if you'll walk and so those are pieces that are making a difference, hopefully modeling, but also I know making a difference for me and my own health. Rachel Omara [00:40:36]: Rachel O'Mara, admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership at Cal State Fullerton. I think that a good way to model sort of healthy excellence is to remember that we're all going through a lived experience and that as professionals, maybe we sometimes appear like we know more than our students or the people that we serve, and I think it's really crucial for us to make those connections and make the spaces really important for us to show ourselves and the things that we care about so that the students understand that we have those connections to them. Even if you have random posters in your director of volunteer engagement at NASPA. Rachel Duvall [00:41:29]: I'm Rachel Duvall. I'm the associate director of volunteer engagement at NASPA. I am from Memphis, Tennessee. So how student affairs can professionals can model healthy excellence in their own lives and institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being. I think the really big thing here is to remember your roots in your professional journey and how you have evolved throughout the profession. Everyone's trajectory looks different, so honoring that in all folks. And so if your journey doesn't look the same as someone else's, really being conscious of that and supporting folks in whatever they decide to do in their current role, next role, and all that and encouraging them to get involved with the professional track that works for them. So if that's regions or knowledge communities with us here at NASPO or a steering committee, I think that is how you can encourage someone to find community at their institution or with a professional organization, but just supporting them in whatever decisions they make. Ray Fisco [00:42:27]: Hi. Ray Fisco, he, him pronouns. I am from Colorado Springs, Colorado, and I serve NASPA as the assistant director of statewide coalitions, trainings, and partnerships. I think this is a really fantastic question. I actually run a coalition in Colorado where we have a campaign called the Time to Ungrind campaign, where it really looks at the culture around hustling. Because I know we as student affairs professionals fall into this culture, and we ultimately do see that with our students as well. So I think it's important that when we tell students about really taking care of yourself and really not falling into this culture of feeling like you have have to hustle and grind all the time to feel successful. I think it's important to model to students that, you know, it's important to rest. It's important to have self care. It's important to take a break. It's important to say no. Because especially in the field of student affairs, it's, like, very hard to say no. But when you're able to say no, that really shows growth, that really shows the opportunity to really be taking care of yourself and really be taking care of your own well-being. Sean Devoe [00:43:36]: Hi. Sean Devoe. I serve as the associate vice chancellor for student affairs and dean of students at the University of Massachusetts Boston. Really focused on making sure that you're doing good stuff for yourself in your work that excites you and that really promotes the best work that you can do on behalf of your students. If you're not doing stuff that's exciting you, you're probably not doing stuff that's exciting your students as well. Sarah Edmonson [00:44:04]: Hello. I am Sarah Edmonson. She, her pronouns, I serve as the associate director for student involvement at Washington University in Saint Louis or WashU. For me personally, one of the things I think is really important is setting boundaries. I set boundaries with the students I work with, and I'm very clear about communication. I do share my phone number with a handful of students that I work with, but I make it very clear that I reserve the right to not respond outside of business hours. I also try to do a really good job of working when I'm at work and not working when I'm not at work. So try to be really thoughtful about turning off notifications to technology and Teams, Outlook, all of those different pieces so that I'm not really distracted by or getting sucked into work while I'm not there. Sarah Edmonson [00:44:45]: I also try to think about, like, if I need to do work outside of my kind of typical work schedule, which what is a typical work schedule in student affairs, but I try to be thoughtful of, like, is this urgent? Do I need to do this now? Or, like, can this really wait, and can I prioritize it, you know, tomorrow or when I have a moment? End up really doing better work because I think part of that balance piece is having a healthy, productive life outside of work and and then supporting that culture for my staff. Absolutely. And so really encouraging them to take their vacation time, to take flex time where it's appropriate, to have varied interests outside of work that does not that have nothing to do with work. And I think modeling those things for our students and explaining that of, like, I'm not gonna get to your email that you sent at 8PM until tomorrow or maybe even the next day, depending on what I've got going on, especially if it's not urgent, and saying, like, we don't need to buy into this this hustle culture or this everything is urgent culture when everything is not necessarily urgent. There are some things that are, but outside of that, we need to be really thoughtful and model for our students what is productive and healthy. Dr. Sheila Carusel [00:45:48]: Hi. I'm doctor Sheila Carussell. I work at Ohio Northern University, and I'm the director of pharmacy student affairs. I've been in student affairs for over twenty five years, and I think one of the best ways that we, as professionals, can model the healthy excellence in our lives and supporting our institutional cultures is to really work on showing that work life balance. And so what that means is whenever it's possible, leave your office, go have fun, go home, and do what's best for you. Talk with your students about your hobbies. Talk about how you de stress and that you can refill how you refill your your cup for the students. Sylvester Gaskin [00:46:38]: Name is Sylvester Gaskin. I'm a leadership development program leader for the Association of American Medical Colleges. We see this field as like an extension of ourselves when it may be at times we just need to see it just as a job, as a career, and to put yourself first. So the best advice that I got about this was actually from my father, who said you have to make business decisions. And sometimes the best business decision you could make is to just take care of yourself. And so in my experience, I didn't really model healthy behaviors and I ended up burning out, getting really sick. And I found that the institution really wasn't concerned about my own well-being. And so I see myself as the CEO of my own business and sometimes the best interest of the business is that I didn't go to a late night event or I didn't attend a meeting and and if I got in trouble for it, well, you know, that's just part of the business. Dr. Alyssa Bivens [00:47:29]: So Taylor Henderson [00:47:30]: Hi. This is Taylor Henderson. I'm the director of the Reliance Student Experience office at Texas A and M University's Mays Business School. I think it's really important to acknowledge challenge. I think sometimes we find ourselves in our profession staying late, helping students with things after hours, before work, after work, on the weekends, and just we feel such a responsibility to be 100% available because we know that the student experience happens primarily of their classroom. And I think that that is an unrealistic expectation for any profession. And it's an unrealistic model for us to put in front of students whenever they see us as working professionals. So I think, you know, establishing boundaries and showing them that it's okay to have boundaries for for yourself and to take care of yourself is just so important. Terrence Duffy [00:48:17]: Hi. My name is Terrence Duffy, t. I'm a first year graduate student at Baldwin Wallace University in the leadership in higher education program. My biggest thing is boundaries. People always assume boundaries just kind of mean those are your you will not pass. It's like, no. It's just setting healthy boundaries with not only where you work or your school work because, you know, you do need a break from time to time. So I think showing them that, yes, as professionals, we work hard and long sometimes. Terrence Duffy [00:48:44]: Having those times where we're like, okay. We need to stop for a minute, take a step back and take a breather, I think is something that can really help show students that they can also do the same, especially in their schoolwork. Dr. TJ Pegg [00:49:02]: Hello. I'm doctor TJ Pegg from George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. Hello. I'm doctor TJ Pegg from from George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. I think as far as student affairs professionals and modeling excellence in our own lives and institutional cultures is really communicating our boundaries and letting students know that they have the ability to do that as well and setting their boundaries as within their program, setting their boundaries and how they're getting engaged on campus, and letting their professors, faculty, and staff on campus, and campus resources that they utilize know what their boundaries are so that they can be their best self when they're on campus. We talk to students a lot of times in the work that I do about meeting their own definition of success, and part of that is setting boundaries and communicating with those that are in their circle to support their experience. Travis Tucker [00:49:55]: Alright. Hello there. My name is Travis Tucker. I use him as pronouns. I serve as the assistant dean and director of the Carley Field Center at Princeton University. I also am a member of the JSKC as the cochair elect. So when I think about healthy excellence, and thinking about marrying and monitoring healthy excellence in my life, I really think about creating proper boundaries. What does it look like for me to really model with navigating how to turn off my email at a given time? I'm really navigating expectations around what that looks like for my staff. Travis Tucker [00:50:24]: I'm really encouraging them to really think about what it makes sense for them to do. I really don't ever try to put people into a box. I don't believe in toxic positivity when it comes to healthy healthy boundaries, and so really making sure that people have the that capacity to learn and lean into that is really important to me. Val Shepherd [00:50:44]: Hi. I'm Val Shepherd. I'm a senior analyst with UCLA Recreation, practicing what we preach. Basically, doing the same things, modeling that for our students. We can't expect our students to do anything different than we do. Talking about our families, working across across disciplines, partnering with academic affairs, especially in student affairs. I've had wonderful partnerships with colleagues in the School of Public Health, for example. So I think definitely modeling what we would like students to do is how I see Sabina Kapoor [00:51:21]: that. Hi. My name is Sabina Kapoor and I'm the new co chair, one of the new co chairs for the SAPA knowledge community with NASPA. I've been in higher ed for a little over twenty years and in that time I've served roles in student affairs, academic affairs, student success, and after a little over twenty years I decided to go back to school full time and pursue my PhD. So if all goes well, I'll get that by the end of this year. I think this is something where there needs to be an organizational cultural shift. While we can't focus on the whole institution, maybe just focusing on the student affairs division and the workplace culture there. And so I think it begins with leadership to say in student affairs to say, work life balance. Val Shepherd [00:52:05]: And, you know, sometimes I think student affairs staff, they're so devoted to the job that they will maybe not do a flex schedule or compensate their hours that over work, you know, over forty hours or whatever the minimum is for full time. But there needs to be a workplace cultural shift to say, and we all know this, is that we all need to be healthy so that we can best serve others. But sometimes we get in a zone and we compromise our health, skip lunch to meet with the student or stay just two hours extra to finish decorating for an event the next day. And so the problem is that one, sometimes leadership doesn't realize that that's what you're doing. And then if you've agreed to work a certain schedule and you kinda veer away from that, then it's really hard for leadership to compensate at that point. So when I say cultural shift, I mean leadership mid level supervisors facing staff work together and be proactive with scheduling, knowing peak times, knowing when events are, etcetera. So I think this is a bigger thing and it requires an organizational or divisional workplace cultural shift. And this is including institutional cultures and that ties into that part of institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being. Val Shepherd [00:53:27]: The key of this is that there is a servicing students. You can manage and operate in a way that you are serving students without overworking some individuals or student student affairs staff. You can work schedules can be arranged in a way to where they get a break and at the same time they get a break but at the same time they continue with that student service. Vanessa Vera [00:53:55]: Hi. My name is Vanessa Vera. I'm a conduct education graduate assistant at the University of Colorado, Colorado Springs. I think what comes to mind is really a human centered approach to navigating student support and just the communication and relationships that we value in our life. I think sometimes just having grace with ourselves, having grace with our colleagues, having grace for our students, and that sometimes life happens to put it simply, and that there really is no right way to go about things. I think sometimes in the procedure of every day and the routines that we fall into, it's easy to get in a groove and expect things to go the way they do, but they never really do, and there's so much uncertainty every day in our lives that we navigate professionally, personally, and just in all spaces. Dr. Will Simpkins [00:54:43]: This is Will Simpkins. I'm vice president of student affairs at Metropolitan State University of Denver. I think you have to make the time. You have to create the boundaries and make it a priority in your life. You can't be everything to everyone. And if your own internal sense of validation is how many people that I helped today, you're not helping yourself. And so always put at the front, what do I need to get through today? Whether that's coffee or a walk with the dog or a massage at the end of the day or a workout, whatever it is, put the boundaries around the work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:55:25]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@nasa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:56:04]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next Dr. Jill Creighton [00:56:16]: time.

5/1/25 • 56:23

  The latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field is not only a must-listen for higher education professionals but a rich resource for anyone seeking insight into the dynamic landscape of student affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton hosts a thoughtful conversation with Dr. Amelia Parnell, the new president and CEO of NASPA, as she reflects on her journey, the evolving challenges facing the profession, and her vision for the organization and the field. Leadership Through Uncertainty One of the strongest themes of the episode is leadership amidst change and uncertainty. Dr. Parnell candidly discusses stepping into her presidential role during a significant period of transition—mirroring the larger flux happening across higher education. She emphasizes the importance of staying calm, understanding the complexities of policy shifts, and making informed decisions, especially as national and state regulations impact campuses at breakneck speed. The Power of Community Dr. Parnell's gratitude for the NASPA community—its staff, members, and peer associations—shines through. Her message is clear: while the challenges ahead are real and substantial, the strength of student affairs lies in its collaborative spirit and supportive networks. She notes that community isn't just a buzzword. Whether through regional conferences, association partnerships, or simply reaching out to colleagues, being "in it together" makes turbulent times more bearable and productive. Value and Impact of Student Affairs A recurring point throughout the episode is the critical need to showcase the impact of student affairs, not just in crisis management or engagement, but as facilitators of student learning and success. Dr. Parnell calls for professionals to embrace data, tell their stories, and make a compelling case for the essential role they play across campuses nationwide. She encourages the field to move beyond simply surviving and towards thriving, both individually and institutionally. Looking Ahead Perhaps most inspiring, Dr. Parnell expresses optimism for the future. She predicts ongoing difficulty but also emphasizes resilience, adaptability, and the vibrancy of the student affairs profession. Her practical advice—utilize new NASPA resources, invest in community, focus on continuous learning, and center the student experience—resonates deeply. Tune In for Insight and Inspiration If you're searching for honest dialogue and encouragement amidst challenging times, this episode is essential listening. Dr. Parnell's warmth, expertise, and hopefulness will leave you feeling empowered and connected—ready to support your campus and each other as the field forges ahead. Listen to the full conversation and join the ongoing journey with the NASPA community. Your work and your voice matter—now more than ever.   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, sheherhers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, I'm so pleased to bring you a conversation with doctor Amelia Parnell, our first on the podcast with her in her new role as president of NASPA. We've had doctor Parnell on before in her prior role at NASPA as the VP for research and policy, and I really loved getting to hear her vision for the organization, where we're going as an association. And if you weren't able to attend the annual conference, she also follows up on some of her remarks and her keynote speech. So this is not one to miss. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: We're so glad that Amelia was able to make the time to come on the show. A little bit more about Amelia. Doctor Parnell is an accomplished higher ed leader and executive and an internationally recognized thought leader regarding current issues and emerging trends in the field. She's a passionate advocate for higher education as a tool for personal advancement and impact, and she seeks opportunities to partner with organizations and individuals who share her sincere commitment to centering students' needs. In her prior role as VP for research and policy at NASPA, she led many of the association's scholarly and advocacy focused activities and fostered partnerships with college administrators, researchers, grantmakers, and other higher ed professionals. As a frequent keynote speaker at national and regional conferences, Amelia presents on topics related to higher ed, student affairs, college affordability, student learning outcomes, and institutions' use of data and analytics. She's been quoted in The Wall Street Journal, The Chronicle of Higher Education, Inside Higher Ed, and the PBS NewsHour. Amelia recently completed four years of service on the board of directors for EDUCAUSE, where she was the chair of the finance and investment committee and the audit committee. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:55]: She's also the past chair of the Higher Education Equity Network or HEEN, a collective impact network representing more than 25 organizations at the forefront of addressing a racial equity in higher ed. Amelia enjoys opportunities to teach, and she's energized by making complex concepts easy to understand. She's had enriching engagements with students and peers as an adjunct instructor and lecturer, and she's the author of the book, You Are a Data Person, which she wrote to encourage all higher education professionals to discover and embrace their unique data identity. Amelia holds her PhD in higher education from Florida State University and master's and bachelor's degrees in business administration from Florida A and M University. Amelia, welcome back to SA Voices. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:02:35]: Thank you very much for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:36]: And we're recording just about two weeks post annual conference. It was lovely to see you in person and living in your element and leading a marching band from opening to Mardi Gras World and welcoming all of us to New Orleans. So we're thrilled to introduce you as NASPA president and CEO for the first time. In the past, we've had you on as VP of policy and research. So as we typically do, we love to open our show by asking you, how did you get to your current seat? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:03:03]: Well, I should tell you that I got a similar question yesterday in an interview with someone who asked if I'd always knew I wanted to work in associations. And I said, when I was in my, of course, undergrad program, I didn't even know about higher ed associations or higher education as a major. And then when I was doing my doctoral work, I knew about associations, but didn't necessarily see myself there. So I can say it's been a journey, but every step along the way has been part of the preparation. So first I'd say getting to this literal seat is involved a lot of association experience. So, you mentioned it before this role for nine years, I was that VP of research and policy. And then before that, I worked for a few years at another association, the Association for Institutional Research. So, those who know me know that I enjoy data conversations and that kind of helped with that. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:03:44]: And then prior to that, I spent seven years in state policy in Florida in an office that really felt a lot like the IR office or institutional research office for the legislature. So a lot of association industry experience, and then a lot of other things that fill in the spaces. So served on some other association boards, did some teaching, some writing, some research, public speaking, advisory board service, and all that together in addition to early, early days working on a campus. So I'd like to think that this opportunity now was several, several years in the making. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:13]: And just to plug some of your work, if you're a data nerd, Amelia has a great book out on data, so you should check that one out if you're a data and assessment person. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:04:21]: I think we all are. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:22]: Definitely. And I think more so now in the profession than we were, you know, five, ten years ago. Even the data has begun to speak differently than it has before. Mhmm. But you've been in the NASPA presidency just under a year now. So how is it going? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:04:35]: It's going very well. Now I can say, like many others in higher education, has not all been easy. But I would definitely say it's been more bearable when you're in a welcoming community, and I'm glad to have that. So specifically, the membership has been really welcoming. I had an opportunity to go to almost all the regional meetings, over the past year. This one, the Western Regional, but I'll see them at their meeting this year. The membership in general has been very kind and welcoming. Get a lot of emails. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:04:59]: The challenge I have is to respond to all of them in a timely way. The board has been very supportive and enjoyed that partnership and looking to build on that. NASPA staff are great. This feels like a commercial, but truly, it it really has been nice. The my neighbor association, some of those CEOs and presidents have immediately reached out. So I feel a sense of community that I was already there, but just feels different in this new role. So it's going really, really well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:19]: I know you're gonna love Western Regional. It's one of my favorite conferences as a former region fiver. So I'll give a shout out to Josie Alquist and Kim Halapa who are the chairs of NASPA Western Regional this year. You're gonna have a great time. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:05:30]: Okay. Okay. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:31]: But as we look at kind of you incoming to the presidency, I kind of think of doctor Lauria White's journey as well. She started her presidency, like, five seconds before COVID hit the world. You started your presidency right amidst a major presidential transition and policy transition. And coming from your policy background, I'm sure that has been maybe some unexpected turns, in your first year. So can you talk about kind of your philosophy behind navigating all Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:05:57]: of it? Oh, absolutely. I don't wanna downplay it and say, oh, I was ready for this. No big deal. That type of thing. But I can say some of my earlier experiences in my career have certainly helped me for this moment. And the first I'll say is that it's never a single person's responsibility. Although being in a role like president, you are asked to make a lot of decisions and that might be a partnership with the border. It might be this is in your scope of influence. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:06:18]: What are we gonna do? That type of, I'd say, heightened responsibility, I'm not necessarily new to it. I've been able to be a part of, like I said, the NASPA executive team for a while. It's a different role, but it did give me some direct exposure to kind of how NASPA should be able to move and navigate in these environments. In terms of the specific policy angle, that's where my state policy experience in Florida. And if anybody watches the news, Florida has been in the news for a while. And so I worked in Florida policy at a time when, just like now, Florida was in the news, and there were a lot of moving discussions that put me right in the middle of making decisions in a difficult time. So nothing prepares you for the moment that you're in because you've never seen it before. But the environment, one that you could probably say is a little bit uncertain, unexpected, a little bit challenging, I've gotten able to be uncomfortable in those situations. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:07:02]: So what I would say I've learned is to not panic. It's hard to do, but it's definitely relevant. Try not to panic. We make better decisions when you have a chance to sit and think. Maybe not in abundance of time to sit and think, but, number one thing for me I'd say is make sure you understand everything possible that you can, that you can absolutely absorb and try not to panic because you can make better decisions when you have a clear head. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:22]: I think that not panic moment is really important in higher ed right now. I've been in the public policy division space for NASPA for, I think, like three terms now. And I was having a conversation with Gaut Sheehan, who's the outgoing policy chair for us. And he and I gave a presentation, like, a couple of years ago called something like why public policy should matter to higher ed pros. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:07:44]: Talk about foreshadowing. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:45]: And I just remember us being like, how do we get people to understand this is important to their work and how much that has shifted over the last couple of years where we're now in a space where policy is moving at us at what can really only be described as a breakneck pace. And so I'm not asking any of us in the field to agree, disagree, or be undecided about what these policy changes are and mean. What I'm really asking us to do is to take a look at how it's affecting our campuses and our students because regardless of how we personally feel about it, it's happening, and it's happening in ways that affect our campuses. So aside from remaining calm, kind of that keep calm and carry on, what advice do you have for campuses who are trying to keep up right now? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:08:24]: Yeah. Absolutely. And and before I answer that, let me add on to your point about your session with Scott. I've said this many times, kind of in jest, that I feel prepared for this moment because the the nine years I spent leading the research and policy area, those were two areas that when you say, hey, you know, would you like to sit down and talk about some data? Those people will be like, I don't know. That's my favorite topic. Maybe we'll get back to you and and talk another time. And if it's policy, oh, well, you know, I've got a colleague who does our policy stuff. And so this idea that these two big buckets and they're they're really kind of linked research and policy together were areas that we needed to be paying attention to closely anyway. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:08:55]: And this feels like the right time to elevate that. So I appreciate your question. And I would say, I see the thing, keep calm. I don't want to say carry on because I feel like that could be dismissive of what it means to be working in the field. But the calm nature means as you are still going through these difficult times, try not to be too overly overwhelmed. I'd say about what's going on. In terms of specifically what we can do, I think I can think of three things. The one I'd say to anybody, this is a great time to learn as much as possible. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:09:19]: And I know that the news outlets give us news and they give us updates, but there are certainly other opportunities for us to really understand how does a bill become a law? How does the law become a rule? How does the rule turn into policy? What's the difference between the executive order and, act of Congress, things like that. This is the time where if you you're not quite sure, ask somebody, see if you can read up on it. I know we talk about Schoolhouse Rock and the basics. It's okay to go back to the basics because I think in this time now it helps us have deeper conversations about what our options are. Got to understand what's going on. That ultimately will lead to the space of influence, which will be your campus policies or campus decisions. And so it all fits together. I think that's number one. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:09:55]: Learn as much as you can. In terms of supporting students, I think it means consistency. You know, for as much as things are changing all around us and we as professionals see this, students are still coming. They're still coming to class. They're still going home, still making plans, and they're looking to us to still provide some consistency in how we're going to help them navigate their college experience. I know it's hard, but they, I think, could give us a signal of where we could go to support them. And then I'd say the last, I just got to double back down on the idea of informed decision making. We haven't gotten to that question yet, but I feel like to some extent that that pairs well with not panicking, because if we have an abundance of information about what's been working, where our places of improvement should be, this is a good time. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:10:33]: And we're being kind of pushed into those conversations, by not rushing. Maybe moving at a faster pace, but not rushing to every quick decision that gives us a chance to take a fresh look at some information and data that we might already have in partnership across the campus. So that's gonna bring us closer together. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:47]: I will plug that Schoolhouse Rock piece on YouTube because it does hold up. It's the policy process is exactly the same. And one that I also like to include is the more r rated version by Saturday Night Live, which is about executive orders. So go watch that one. It's definitely not child or office friendly, but in your spare time, go check out that one because it's also pretty much accurate. But we are also in a space where all of the federal personnel that campuses may be used to talking to for investigations or there's currently, you know, we know the list of 60 and things like that going on. How might you advise campus professionals who are trying to do their best to comply with federal regulations knowing that their staff or relationships have all changed, how do you recommend people begin to re navigate this new landscape? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:11:31]: So that's a specific question I could imagine that impacts those who are used to having an ongoing connection to the department, and that would include me. Before this current administration, the previous administration, we would get invited to have a closed conversation here or convening there or some type of email exchange that would say, this is what we're considering. Can you tell us maybe a perspective of student affairs professionals? And to not have that has been a little, little tough because number one, it gives you access into conversations that might be emerging into something later. But also it kind of gives us a chance to prepare in advance. And so to not have that, it does feel acutely more difficult than previous situations. This is a place where I would say associations can actually support with the membership though. So even though I may not have that direct line to as many department professionals as I previously did, a lot of associations do have connections to the Hill. And so NASPA doesn't do direct lobbying, but we do a lot of advocacy work, which connects us to other associations who have that type of capacity. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:12:22]: So I think that's a place where associations can help members understand a little bit of what's going on. Now, naturally, we can't share everything that we've heard, especially if some of it is speculative, but it does help us be a little bit ahead and prepared. So some of the things that we're seeing right now, those conversations, I think we, we got a little bit of a heads up of what might happen. And of course we all are speculating to some degree, but we had a little bit of a head start, maybe a few weeks ahead or maybe a couple of months in other cases. So I think in terms of those individuals who might be doing work where they normally would have to engage, maybe you're doing iPads reporting, or maybe you're doing something that directly connects to one of the departments. I think that's a place where associations can help a little bit. Now we don't have a Rolodex to offer and new people to connect to, but I do think those specific questions, they would be looking to associations to help them unpack a little of those unanswered questions. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:06]: And you kind of mentioned it already, but NASPA has enjoyed really positive relationships with other higher ed associations that are DC based for a good long while now. We even, I believe, shared an office with a couple of them for a while. So knowing all of that and knowing that you all are very connected, it's, I think, important for our members to know that we're not alone, that student affairs professionals aren't there floating out in this world of change without the scaffolding of other professional associations around us. So can you talk a little bit about how NASPA's working with those other associations or how they're weathering the storm with us as we work through this process? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:13:37]: Sure. There are some natural groupings of associations. So for those listening, I'm not sure if everybody knows, but there are probably at least 50 different associations that touch or connect to higher education in some way. And some of them are larger comprehensive associations like NASPA that covers a suite of departments and units like we have. And then there are some that are specifically focused on one area. So you might have both NASPA, but then you also have ACUOI, which is specifically focused on housing or my previous association AIR. So those associations, we get together from time to time to share what's going on. Now, again, we don't open up our professional diaries and share everything that's going on, but we do talk about the impact of some of these changes that are completely impacting higher education and how it's impacting us specifically within our membership in our particular area of influence. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:14:20]: So that leaves a lot of space for us to compare notes and say, have you considered this or you had considered that? We all have different levels of capacity, even down to the amount of policy and advocacy staff we have. So those who might have a little bit more, they might take up a little bit more of the, the time to give updates. Those of us who have a little bit less, we might spend more time listening, but we can still offer context. So I would say there's a great imperative across the associations from my POMO perspective that we share with each other. Not that we didn't previously, but in a time like this, there's not that type of competition that you might think, well, who can get out first? Who can be the best at this? I think there's an ongoing commitment to say we literally all are experiencing something similar. We're better together by, by having these conversations in a way that helps us see where the opportunities for partnership are at a very limited level conversations. And so it's been nice for as much as a difficult time can be nice. It's been nice to be able to go to those meetings and not have to be concerned about someone trying to have ulterior motives. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:15:13]: I haven't experienced any of that, and I don't think it'll be that way for the foreseeable future. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:17]: I always get a bit of a nerdy kick out of the fact that there's, like, associations for associations. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:15:21]: Yes. There's an association for associations if there's a big one, ASAE. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:25]: But given all of that, I also know that NASPA has come out with some new resources for members to help us look at all of these things, specifically the policy hub. Can you tell us a little bit about the policy hub and any other resources that NASPA is currently putting out for members? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:15:38]: Yeah. So I have to give credit to the NASPA policy and advocacy colleagues that we have, both the policy division, the policy and advocacy colleagues on the staff, and others who have been really influential in creating this, the executive team. I should stop naming names because I'm gonna leave somebody out. The idea behind the public policy hub was that we would have a space where individuals who are saying, hey, I see executive words are happening, or this dear, dear colleague letter. I'm trying to keep up with everything. So rather than number one, have to try to bookmark a certain email here or flag a certain news article there, they would have a centralized place to catch up on all the news that would be relevant to higher ed with that student affairs lens. So it's a central location for that. Beyond that, there are places where we can actually do a little bit of a summary. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:16:16]: So if a document is exceptionally long, they may be able to read, not the cliff notes, but give me the summary of what this might mean for student affairs. Now we don't have legal guidance in there. So if someone's listening to this and they're like, oh, I know exactly what to do because the resource hub is going to tell me, that's not it. We would still suggest that because each campus is different, that you talk with your legal counsel and other policy experts, but it does provide a level of translation and curation that I think feels a little bit easier to absorb than what you might see a flurry of emails and newsletters and things like that. So we try to do our best to highlight everything that's happening within real time. And so if something happens at 2PM on Tuesday, then maybe don't check it at 3PM, but very soon after we would have something there, a bit of a summary and something that says considerations. I'd also want to highlight that the public policy division, to a point you just, you just named, they're watching these things very closely. The, the leadership team meets monthly. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:17:03]: They had several sessions during the annual conference. And I know they're probably thinking of some virtual things they can do throughout the rest of the year. In addition to that, probably our regional meetings will have more of that stuff too. So long story short, the policy hub, we're still building into it. Every time something happens that we think would be relevant, it's organized by topic area and by timing of when things occurred. So there's a there's a lot in there. A lot of good stuff in there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:24]: We've talked a lot about policy, but policy is not all that NASA is. It is a member experience. It's learning. It's resources. It's publications. It's access to other members, its conference gatherings, all of the things that create community in the student affairs profession, in my opinion. So I'm wondering if you can talk about NASPA at large, bigger NASPA. What is your vision for the typical member experience and where you hope to drive the association in kind of the foreseeable future? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:17:51]: As a membership association, I think the main thing for me will always be the main thing, which is that with, in this case, 14,000 individuals, I want everyone to feel like what they get from NASPA is worth their investment. Now, also understanding that everybody could want something different. That's sometimes challenging, but I'd say at the core, some come to NASPA for the community. Then it's not that these are mutually exclusive, but it does help to be in community with someone who understands your job, does a similar role. I mean, you have shared experiences together. Others will come because they really want to know what's going on, what they can expect in the future. So current and emerging topics, and coupled with that would be a place to learn, learn with each other, learn from each other, a place for scholarship, for research, and all those things. And there may be a long list of other things that people would expect from NASPA. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:18:34]: But regardless of what that mix of expectations is, I think there are three things that I hope everybody will experience to some degree. I hope that they would see NASPA as timely, like a timely organization that regardless of what's happening in higher education or student affairs, they feel like we're on the cusp of what's current, that we can be a place for them to come and be informed. I really want it to be tailored. Something about the comments that I made during the opening session that people keep telling me about is when I made the connection to Netflix. The idea that Netflix really understands what types of films I want to see, short stories I want to see, and they always put those right in front of me. So, that's an opportunity for us to use our data to make that experience for each individual as tailored as possible. So, that though we have a lot to offer, we figured out exactly which things matter most to which people. And then lastly, because I'm just a nice person. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:19:20]: I want us to be thoughtful. I want us to have everything from our messaging to our experiences and our conferences, to all of our interactions to be developed in a way that's thoughtful. Now, again, that's subjective, what's thoughtful to one, someone might say it's no big deal, but I want the intentionality of this relationship between NASPA and its members to be as clear as possible. That I want it to feel like a very thoughtful and tailored and timely organization. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:42]: What's most important to NASPO right now? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:19:44]: It's the same thing I would probably say to anybody. We gotta be close to the membership. And I don't like to compare crises, but I would say during the pandemic, we made a a conscious decision to say we wanted to lower the the cost of the annual conference, for example, just to make it so that more people could actually stay involved. And it's not that I'm looking for this exclusively as a business. I'm looking at it really to say, we have a hard time having community with no people. And so what's important to me is that we have individuals feel like they can still be connected to us and have access to what we're doing. We're going to make it through this. I really do think that this is a difficult time, but it's not impossible, but we need a community that's together, that's able to connect and share with each other what we know, and that will get us through this difficult time. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:20:21]: But what's most important is that we have the community. So I wanna be able to deliver some decisions that will help us get to that point now and for the foreseeable future. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:29]: I think this is a really important message that, you know, NASPA's focus is not whiplashing with the things that are changing, but a continual focus that ultimately, it's a member organization, and we're here to support each other and to serve the needs of the profession. And keeping that mission at the core, I think, is really gonna be seen by the members as we move forward. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:20:49]: I hope so. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:50]: At the conference, you made four predictions, and you asked four questions of higher ed. And I think these are really important to share, especially for those who were not able to attend the conference or for those who only got to see it live or wanted more time to reflect that. We can go there a little bit. So I'm gonna start with the predictions. The first thing you predicted was that things are gonna be hard for several years, but we're going to survive. Can you talk more about that? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:21:12]: Yes. I would say we I could think of higher ed in the the long term. So I almost wanna make the connection between that and the stock market. And those who are finance nerds. If I weren't studying higher ed, I'd be looking more at financial markets and things like that. But oftentimes when people talk about investing, they say, maybe don't look at one to two years. You know, what's happened this year compared to last year. If you look at the market over time, it always rebounds now. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:21:34]: So realize that this is coming out at a time when the markets right now are tumbling. So I'm hoping that this analogy still holds. But the idea is that if you took a one hundred year period, you would see very few fluctuations. If you were to look at the diagram, The idea is that it's mostly consistent and it will probably rebound. Even during periods of recession or depression, the market will rebound. I don't want to make a one to one parallel, but I will say higher ed does need to change. And we all realized that that was not new, but I don't see a situation in which all of higher education will ultimately crumble. We will survive. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:22:03]: And in the keynote, I said, there are some places where I think we will actually continue to thrive. We're not doing all this work for nothing and not everything is going bad. I realized that the news cycles would have you believe that everything is going in the downward direction, but there are still students who are having a very good college experience. There are still campuses that are having vibrant experiences within student affairs, amid all of these challenges. So when I say survive, I mean, we're still going to be here, but it's not going to be all bad. I think there'll be some very, very hard challenges that will point out to us places where we were a little bit more vulnerable and we'll approve on those things. And ultimately we will thrive because we will be better at rebounding. And I say reacting and then being proactive for some things that are coming. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:22:42]: So, long winded way of saying, I think that things will be hard because they're already hard, but I don't think that we will be in a place where higher it will ultimately crumble. We will survive. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:50]: Your second prediction dovetails here, which is that NASPA will thrive. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:22:53]: I think I said alliteration. If I had the the timely thorough alliteration there, I want to use another one with the letter V and just say, I've said this in a couple of interviews that I think NASPA will continue to be a valuable, vibrant, and versatile organization. I use those three things intentionally. So I always say valuable and that if someone comes to NASBA, I want them to feel like they got what they expected to some degree. Now, again, trying to do that for $14,000 that's a little hard, but there should be some value. There should be some value there. It's the same way I want to emphasize the need for us to show the value of student affairs in the larger conversation. Vibrant because we're a wonderful community. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:23:26]: We bring all kinds of differences, backgrounds of perspectives of cultures, you know, just all kinds of things that make a really wonderful mix of experiences, which is why I think we had such a great time in New Orleans. And then versatile because we're big enough. And I feel fortunate to say this, that we can pivot if we need to. And I almost hesitate to say that word pivot because we use it so much during the pandemic. But versatility in the sense that with the membership that goes across so many functions within student affairs and so many levels of involvement from senior leaders all the way to those who are studying at the graduate level. Of course, we're going to be versatile, so we can do a lot of things simultaneously. And I think that's, that's one of the things that makes the Aspen special. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:02]: Your third prediction is that student affairs will become more collaborative, which I think is an interesting one, because I feel like as a field, we're already pretty collaborative and sharing practice. What does this mean in practice? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:24:13]: Yeah, I think about it in terms of the student affairs function on a campus, and I'll give some shout outs here. Not that I have any favorites, but the things that come to mind. So there are a lot of other areas of a campus that are doing what they would describe as student success work. They may not say student affairs, but student success work. In the Kubo, for example, they just released recently a student success hub. And so I think that was some intentionality to say that there is a connection between business decisions and and ultimately trying to help students succeed in college. And so I could see the collaborations between student affairs and the finance office being one, student affairs and IR, student affairs and technology. As you can see within a campus, I think we're going to have even more collaborations than what we currently have. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:24:50]: Nationally, I'd say at a broad level, there are lots more collaborations across associations. And whether those be funded by philanthropy or just started up because of shared goodwill and interest, I really do think, pointing back to that earlier question about the association community, we're gonna see a lot more collaboration, and I'm excited about it. I'm happy for the number of student affairs associations that came to the NASPA conference too, off the invitation. I I really feel grateful that they came and spent the time with us. And your Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:14]: fourth prediction was that we were going to have a fantastic twenty twenty five annual conference. So I wanna give a huge shout out and congratulations to doctor Akira Bradley Armstrong, who was the annual conference chair. It was a fantastic conference. I believe we had about 6,200 attendees. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:25:28]: 6,600. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:29]: 60 six hundred. That's nearly 50% of national members. Is it usually that high? It felt really vibrant this year to me more so than maybe past years. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:25:39]: I think it's the largest one since the pandemic happened. So we've had a couple that were larger than that, like, over 7,000, but this was the largest one we've had since coming back from the pandemic. And now since I gotta say some thank yous, I definitely Akira and the whole conference leadership committee, they did a great job. We had thousands of volunteers who did everything from help direct traffic to work at the membership area, the registration area. We have a lot of volunteer help, which was great. The board was really fantastic. The staff was great. Of course, a lot of staff of the hotels and the convention center. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:26:06]: So it takes a lot of work. That project, I would say the conference itself starts at least maybe eighteen months to two years in advance. All the details, the local arrangements committee. I mean, just a lot of people put a lot of work into this. So, I had a good feeling it was going to be good, but I think when I said it, I should have put fantastic and bold. It was a really, really, it's a really good experience. And it was kind of like a metaphor because anybody who was there in person on Saturday might recall we had some really, really just turbulent weather. It was really, really windy. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:26:34]: And unfortunately there were some tornadoes nearby that touched down. And so, to go from that really windy stormy day to Sunday at the opening in the evening, and the sun was shining, and it wasn't too hot, it wasn't too cold, and we got to go to Mardi Gras world. It was truly like the sunshine after the storm, which nobody would have planned it that way, But to go into that idea that I had, that higher ed will actually be fine on the long term, it's going to look different. Truly, I think it will feel different. It'll be different, but the sun's going to come back out. That sounds so cheesy. I know. I know. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:27:04]: It sounds so cheesy. I know. I know. Just go with me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:06]: Our co producer on the podcast, Chris, he actually got diverted to Mobile, Alabama and spent, like, several hours on the ground in Alabama trying to get note to Nola. I was several hours delayed out of my connection as well. And so some of my amazing colleagues actually had to present part of the pre con on my behalf. So we all got there, though. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:27:23]: It was rough. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:24]: You also asked four questions of the profession and of higher ed. The first being, what does the increased state in federal involvement in higher ed mean for student affairs staff? And you talked about specifically more difficult conversations and an ongoing urgency to explain implicitly the value of student affairs, which I think a lot of us felt like we were finally seen in COVID in terms of what we were contributing to the higher education experience. Presidents were leaning on student affairs more than many other parts of their university administrations to help the institutions thrive. But have we backslid? Are we going in a different place now? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:28:00]: I don't think we backslid. I think the current state of us using data to show the value and impact is where it previously was. And I'll, I'll use your example as maybe my starting point for my response. So I think for a while, and this is back to maybe even two or three years into my role as VP for Research and Policy, when I started to spend more time outside of just student affairs and talking with some provost and presidents and things of that sort. So I oftentimes hear a description of student affairs that fits into one of three buckets. Number one, the obvious one that you just named, that student affairs professionals are great in a crisis. And I'm happy that we are. So the crisis in that case being COVID, that we are trained professionals to be able to handle the unexpected events that could be unfortunate in nature. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:28:41]: That's really good. But if we're not careful, we would end up being put in that box and we stay there, which is that we need student affairs. The value of student affairs is that we need someone to handle a crisis. And that's not where I want us to be. On the completely opposite end of the continuum, you have someone who would say, I'm so glad we have student affairs. They are the best at engagement activities. We have orientation, we have clubs and activities, all kinds of things that make students feel welcome and belong. And we absolutely need that. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:29:03]: And I'm happy that that's part the portfolio. But if we're not careful, you'll see articles that come out and describe student affairs as balloons in the lawn and pizza parties and things of that sort. And we need those things too. Those are elements of helping students feel welcome and comfortable, but we're more than that. And we're more than crisis. The middle piece, the third narrative that I want to see pushed more, and it started a little bit during the student success wave when there was a student success agenda for everybody, whether it be conferences or roles and things like that, is that we are facilitators of learning. That those very same things that employers say that they want and graduate schools say they want, critical thinkers and those who can communicate well and solve complex problems, we are facilitators of those things. And so when I said we need more data to show the value and impact, it's impact across all three. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:29:45]: We're doing fine on the crisis management. Even without extra data, people know that we're getting a crisis, and they know that we are very good in engagement. But we need an extra effort, additional effort to show the real impact that we have for every student who engages with advising of any type. The likelihood of them persisting in major is this, the likely of them, likely of them moving toward graduation and completing a credential. It's this. That's the missing piece that I think. So I don't think we've gone backward. The two very clear narratives are just as clear as they were years ago, but I want to push a little bit more to see that that value and impact conversation expands beyond what I would say are the two prevailing narratives at the time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:20]: The second question you asked is NASPA changing its strategy for supporting the profession. And your response on stage was that it's changing some of the strategies for supporting the profession, but we still have a major focus on learning and data, inform portfolios and resources. Anything you wanna elaborate on here? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:30:38]: Yeah. So the the new and the different. The different pieces that I really want us to be more data informed. And so on stage, I made the example of Netflix that basically, if we do the best we can with this abundance of data that we have, I should know that doctor Jill likes to read articles that are on this. And so when we write you, I feel like at least a section of that update email should say, check out the latest that we have on the areas that interest you. So that part should be new. We're not behind in that regard, but we have definitely a lot more opportunity that we haven't leveraged yet. The more things change, the more they stay the same, we're still a membership association, and we have a commitment to learning and community and access and all the things that I just mentioned earlier about why I feel like NASPA's commitment should stay the same. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:15]: Feel like there's an opening for AI to do some work for us here. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:31:19]: Could be. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:20]: Your third question, which I think is an important one, and one we've been talking about on the podcast for a long time now is is everyone leaving student affairs. And this question, the way we've talked about it on the podcast is really directed towards salaries and hours and things like that because of the level of intensity of the work, the credentials required for entry level positions, the constant tension with HR data about what the value of a position is and things like that. You gave some statistics, which is that eighty eight percent of people surveyed state that they would leave due to the salaries not being commensurate with their experience or their expectations of the position. And that sixty eight percent said that they have they have job duties that are not in their PD. That other duties as assigned box is something we all say a bit pejoratively, but it's a very real pain. And that sixty one percent plan to stay more than five years. So there's some things in the statistics that aren't wholly aligned, but I think the story hasn't changed a ton. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:32:20]: So with one caveat on the former pieces of data. So the eighty eight percent, we didn't ask them about what would make them want to leave. We asked them what they think others would leave for. So basically what we're asking, we said, hey, if someone were to leave the field in the next five years, why do you think they would leave? And then the 88% said, hey, this is probably going to be paid. To add to the ones you just named, another 84% said they think others will leave because of the stress of the work. Like it's just really hard work. The other 81% said they think others will leave because they feel undervalued and then you get to sixty eight percent. So the data are clear. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:32:49]: If I had to guess, it would be no different. Even if I asked someone, hey, John, why do you think someone else would leave at this 88% that said pay? Pretty good chance that John themselves would say, I too would have considered leaving for one of those four reasons. So for each individual, it may not be that their number one is pay, but I think those are still the top four, regardless of whether you're talking about yourself or someone else, which is why we followed up with that question of, well, what are you planning on doing? And 61% saying, okay, I think in the next five years, I'll probably stay. That's not exceptionally good news. It's not bad news, it's right in the middle, which is to say, there's the opportunity. And I'm thinking all the time about what would it take to get that 61% to trend upward instead of downward? Because even though they said, I think I'm planning on staying, amid all the things that you've just named, those are all reasons, you know, some of them beyond assets control. Like we can't control what campuses would offer in terms of salary, but we can offer some strategies for how to approach staff retention and not just keeping them there, but helping it be a thriving and valuable and vibrant profession that could move that 61% up instead of down. So you're right. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:33:48]: I think the biggest issue in student affairs has to be how we're going to retain individuals and pathways into the profession, not just to get into it for a few years and to say, I think I'm going to go someplace else, but to say there's enough space there for growth professionally. And hopefully, we'll see more people respond differently if we were to ask that question again. I'm kind of nervous to ask it right now, given everything that's happening in the backdrop of higher education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:10]: That's fair, but it also leads very nicely into the fourth question you asked, which is, if things remain difficult for a while, how do we find and keep our joy in the profession? And I'm gonna quote you because I actually giggled. You said, we've got about 65, 60 six hundred attendees here in New Orleans. And quote, this might sound like a ploy for NASBA, but you chose to come here. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:34:31]: Yes. Yes. And I wanna celebrate that. I had to say it that way because ultimately, and you made a great point, that we had almost half the membership that came. And though each individual's experience is different, each campus' experiences are different, one of the best places you can be in a difficult time is in community. And so, there were so many people, and I realize I'm about to be that single person example, but there were a lot of people that I saw walking around the conference that actually gave hugs or high fives and they were smiling. And it doesn't mean that everything was perfect. It doesn't mean that they didn't come from some tumultuous situations, job losses and everything else. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:35:02]: But in this moment, when you're trying to find joy, like where can I find my small piece of happy in a difficult time? Something about being in community does help you manage that. So back to your first question, when you said, how's it been going so far? I had to quickly say it has not been easy, but it is much more bearable when you have a community of people that you know are welcoming and can say, Hey, I get it. I understand what you're going through. And that to me helps find and keep a little bit of joy in these hard times while we're waiting for this period of difficulty to pass through. And it will. The storm will pass through. We will have more coming, but this particular one, I'd rather be under the umbrella than somebody else talking about it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:37]: Anything else you want to share with the membership right now? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:35:39]: Gratitude, honestly, just gratitude. Everybody who's asked like, how's it going, though? How's it really going? How are you doing? How are you really doing? That's an extra question because I think we all get it. But this truly, in my remarks, I said this is just one of the best places I've ever worked, one of the best professions I've ever been a part of, and I'm grateful. I know that there's still a lot more hard work to do, and there are gonna be times when we're gonna be even more disappointed with the direction of things. I don't think that I'd be wise to tell anybody, hey, don't worry about it. Give it a couple of months. We'll be back stronger than ever. It's going to be hard for a while, which is why I said a few years, but I'm just truly grateful, grateful for all the volunteers and members. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:36:14]: And and even you for inviting me to the podcast, knowing my schedule wouldn't let me do it on on time in New Orleans. I'm just really grateful. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:20]: We're just glad to have you, Amelia. And now we are on to our theme questions for the season, which is the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I've got one question for you on each part of this theme. So on the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:36:39]: I have two. I wanna have two. I think the history of student affairs, which might map nicely to NASPA, is this opportunity for trying something new. We have a number of new things that I'd say if we never tried them, we wouldn't have something to build on. So everything from our institutes, specifically identity based programming, all kinds of things that we've said, Hey, I see a need here. We haven't previously done this. Let's try it. So I liked this idea of innovation. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:37:02]: At one point, I think we still do have that as one of our four guiding principles. So I like the idea that as things change, we can change with it. Student affairs can change too, inappropriate ways as necessary. I also liked that in the early history of student affairs, there's a lot of discussion about it coming out of a place of counseling or caring for others, something about community and that we're just, again, feeling particularly grateful right now. I think if there's a history of NASPA that's rooted in the idea that we should be caring about each other and for each other, I think I'd like to carry that forward too. In terms of letting things go, I would love to let go a little bit of this idea that you work until you're exhausted. You know, it's part of the change has to be a changing model for how we do student affairs work. So I do want us to start to let go of this idea that in order to do the work well, you have to work beyond what you're capable of. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:37:45]: It's really hard to care for someone else when you're not caring for yourself. So that's what I would say. I guess that's three things, That's three things. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:50]: On the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:37:55]: Advising and anything related to us supporting students and making their hardest decisions. And that's not me positioning advising as the best part of student affairs, because I think honestly, a lot of people in student affairs have advising roles, even if they don't have that title. So within the whole, I guess, continuum of student affairs work, students are still seeing us, talking to us, engaging with us. And I think right now, even in this backdrop of difficult policy developments, we're still giving council advice, support to students. I think we're still doing a good job at that. I really had this hunch that the best part of student affairs is that we are connected to students and they're going to give us real time indications of how things are going. So yeah, anything related to that. The second I'd probably say, even though you told me to give you one, we're still facilitating learning. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:38:37]: So yes, of course we're doing crisis management and we're doing engagement, but I think we are still facilitating lots of learning opportunities for students. And we're we're getting to a place where we're better at documenting that. Maybe that's another podcast episode for another time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:49]: And finally, looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards the future? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:38:55]: Gotta be data informed. Gotta be able to do more than just say we're making an impact. We've got to be able to show with data and information what that impact is and how we can sustain it. I feel like the future is gonna require that of us. And I think we're moving in the right direction, but I feel like the field as a whole, we have the evidence because we've been doing the work, but we gotta be able to provide that and curate it to different audiences so that we could not just sustain ourselves and make a good case, but literally keep the good work going in a more intentional way. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:20]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:26]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. There is a new short course that's being offered through NASPA called Designing Campuses for Mental Health and Well-being. The course runs from May 5 to June 9. And in this essential short course, it explores the crucial intersection of campus design and mental health in higher education. As we navigate an academic landscape marked by increasing mental health challenges, it's clear that depression and other mental health concerns compounded by academic stress lead to negative outcomes, including higher dropout rates. This course highlights the the vital role of administrators in student affairs in fostering a culture of wellness and understanding on their college or university campuses. Through comprehensive insights from experts, the course will explore various mental health models, assess campus specific needs, and develop actionable sustainable strategies to enhance campus wide mental health. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:28]: Through this short course, you will join a transformative journey to better support your students and colleagues and create a thriving supportive academic environment. Another short course not to miss is happening between June 16 and July 21 called building a shared commitment to well-being. This short course is designed by members of the NASPA health safety and well-being initiatives team. In this short course, you will be guided by student affairs professionals through a comprehensive understanding of holistic well-being, focusing on fostering a shared commitment to well-being in educational environments, particularly through the integration Through this course, you will have the opportunity to cultivate, Through this course, you will have the opportunity to cultivate an inclusive culture that prioritizes the health and well-being of the entire campus community. You can find out more about either of these courses on the NASPA learning portal going to learning.NASPA.org. Also, today, I'm gonna give you a save the date for the NASPA symposium on military connected students. The next symposium on military connected students will be held in Norfolk, Virginia from February 17 through the twentieth, twenty twenty sixth. The twenty twenty six NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the association's premier event designed for student affairs for student for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:06]: The Symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. Through this Symposium, you can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This three day symposium features keynote sessions, research, policy, and best practice best practices presentations and workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. You still have some time as the early registration deadline ends on 10/27/2025, but sign up today to get ready for this amazing learning opportunity. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:25]: Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:14]: Chris, thank you so much as always for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Amelia, we have reached our lightning round questions. And as a second time guest, we have slightly different set of questions for you. So I'm gonna change up the first one a little bit because you literally were just a conference keynote speaker, and you walked up to Before I Let Go Thank You by Starchild. You also said when you entered that you changed the song, like, four times. So can you tell us what the other songs were? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:44:40]: Yeah. So, well, the the song this version that I came out to, it was Before I Let Go. It was Frankie Beverly and Maze, but then on top of that, it was Beyonce's cover of it. So the ones that didn't make the cut, I'll give you two of them. And both of them were good for, for different reasons. Stevie Wonder is my favorite artist. And so it was gonna be Sir Duke that I came out to, but I saved that one for another time. I just really liked Stevie. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:44:58]: And plus I actually used that one at a conference in November. So I want to do something fresh. The other one is I love Whitney Houston, and I wanted to go with, I want to dance with somebody, but I was like, maybe that's going to take too long to get to the chorus. The intro people know, but I was like, nah, it just wouldn't work. And plus the one I picked had a little bit of a live band thing, which seemed to work with the New Orleans vibe. So, I landed there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:17]: Number two, your undergraduate degree, and do you use it in your work now? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:45:20]: All the time. Maybe not the specific class related principles because it's been a couple decades since I was an undergrad, but, yeah, I was a business administration major. So being a president right now, I spend more time looking at business analytics than I ever have. So absolutely. I use it all the time. And the board kind of expects me to make sure that NASPA's financials are intact. And so, yeah, debits and credits and assets and liabilities and revenue and expenses. Absolutely. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:43]: Minor details. Minor details. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:45:44]: Minor. Minor details. Minor details. Yes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:46]: Number three, your guilty pleasure TV show binge. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:45:49]: Oh, I've been watching a lot of TV. I've been watching, because I do a lot of DVR. Beyond the Gates. It's a brand new soap opera that's on CBS. I've enjoyed that very much. I just finished Paradise on Hulu, which everybody at the conference told me I should watch, and I finished it in two days. It was really good. And like I said in the keynote, I did watch Love is Blind. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:06]: I I have to watch it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:07]: I heard this season called Love is Bland. Number four. If someone visits your city, Washington, DC, what's the one place they must eat? Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:16]: Well, if if they're not opposed to eating meat, I would definitely say go to Ben's Chili Bowl. It's a staple of the city. You gotta do that. If you like sushi, I would say go to Oku. I feel like I I should be giving you one answer. So what are those two? I'll go with those two. Those are two spots I would go to. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:29]: Number five, your favorite work related podcast. Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:32]: Oh, other than the MASP, the podcast. Don't say that? Let me let me go without one. I wanna say MASP. I should be listening to MASP, but that's the one. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:37]: Number six, your favorite not work related podcast. I listen Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:40]: to a lot of personal finance and investment type stuff. So it's not called everyday millionaire

4/24/25 • 50:12

In the latest episode of NASPA's Student Affairs Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Richard Walker, President of the University of Houston Clear Lake, to explore the past, present, and future of student affairs in higher education. With over four decades of experience, Dr. Walker brings a wealth of knowledge and unique perspectives, having transitioned from a career in student affairs to the presidency. Here's a glimpse into the key themes covered in their enlightening conversation. Dr. Walker's journey to the presidency is a testament to the value of diverse experiences and the encouragement of mentors. Initially set on retiring as a Vice President for Student Affairs (VPSA), Walker's career took an unexpected turn when he was encouraged to consider a presidential role. His story underscores the importance of being open to new opportunities and the impact of leaders who recognize potential. Once in the presidential seat, Dr. Walker's student affairs background provided him with a distinct advantage. His approach to leadership is deeply rooted in fostering a holistic view of student success and engagement, emphasizing the importance of seamless support systems that include academic advising, student activities, and mental health services. His tenure at UHCL has been marked by significant achievements, including strategic partnerships with industry giants like Boeing and NASA, enhancing student career readiness through experiential learning. Dr. Walker candidly discusses current challenges, particularly in light of recent legislative changes affecting diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts in Texas. He shares the innovative strategies UHCL has employed to comply with new laws while maintaining robust support systems for all students, emphasizing the university's commitment to providing a welcoming environment despite external challenges. Looking forward, Walker encourages a continued focus on student success, affordability, and the evolving role of student affairs professionals. He highlights the need for institutions to adapt to changing needs, particularly in mental health services and career readiness, ensuring that all students have the support necessary to succeed academically and personally. For student affairs professionals and higher education leaders, Dr. Walker's insights offer a valuable perspective on navigating the complexities of modern academia. His dedication to student engagement, community partnerships, and strategic leadership is both inspiring and instructive. Tune in to hear more from Dr. Richard Walker about the evolving landscape of student affairs and the vital role it plays in shaping the future of higher education. Whether you're an aspiring university leader or a seasoned professional, this conversation provides rich insights and motivation to make a lasting impact in your field. Listen now to engage with the full discussion and gather insights that could transform your approach to student affairs leadership. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to Essay Voices from the Field where today we're bringing you the third conversation we had live and in person at the NASPA annual conference, this time with one of our keynote speakers, doctor Richard Walker. Richard joined the University of Houston Clear Lake as its sixth president on 05/20/2022, bringing over forty years of leadership experience in higher ed at both public and private institutions. Under his leadership, UHCL has experienced significant success. He led the implementation of the university's strategic plan, Impact 2025 and beyond, transform, translate, transcend, which has been pivotal in transforming student lives through experiential learning and workforce readiness. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:03]: This period has seen record breaking fundraising efforts with nearly $2,800,000 raised, surpassing the goal by over a million dollars. Additionally, the successful acquisition of 53 grants has yielded over 7,200,000.0 in funding for various educational and community projects in the twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three period. Under his leadership, the university has marked several notable achievements. During his first year, UHCL graduated its largest class ever with 2,427 students. Additionally, Walker's tenure has significantly increased the institution's economic impact on the local area, contributing $1,100,000,000, which equates to supporting 12,578 jobs in the university's service region. Moreover, UHCL has made considerable strides in national and regional academic standings. In the 2024 US News and World Report rankings, the university climbed 27 places to number 304 nationally and rose to number 12 amongst public universities in Texas. It also advanced 66 spots to number a 43 in the top performer for social mobility category among national universities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:06]: Walker's impact extends beyond the campus as he actively contributes to regional and national development. He's a member of the board of trustees for HCA Houston Healthcare Clear Lake and the board of directors for Bay Area Houston Economic Partnership. He also serves on the executive committee of the Council of Public University Presidents and Chancellors or CPUPC. Strategic partnerships with major organizations like Boeing and NASA have provided invaluable real world experiences to UHCL students, further enhancing their education and career readiness, supporting community and workforce development. Recognized as one of our pillars of the profession here at NASPA in 2016, his dedication to education is evident in his administrative achievements and active involvement in various professional and honor societies. His vision for UHCL focuses on elevating the university among the top universities in Texas, enhancing the student experience, and anticipating educational needs to ensure UHCL's relevance and influence in an evolving workplace landscape. Prior to his current role, Walker served as vice chancellor for student affairs and enrollment services for the University of Houston system and vice president for student affairs and enrollment services at the University of Houston. He also spent twenty four years in significant leadership roles at the University of Miami. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:18]: Walker received his EDD in higher ed leadership from the University of Miami. He earned a specialist in education and administration and supervision from Middle State Tennessee University, a master of education administration and supervision from Memphis State University, and a bachelor of science in history from Middle Tennessee State University. He's also a graduate of the Harvard Institute for Higher Ed Management development program. Hope you enjoy our conversation. It was a delight to talk to Richard. Hi, Richard. Hey, Joe. Thanks so much for making time out of your conference schedule sit down with me. Dr. Richard Walker [00:03:46]: It is absolutely my pleasure. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:48]: And for our listeners, our audio quality might be a little bit different today than you're used to because we're live and in person at NASPA in New Orleans sitting in a gorgeous, very fancy boardroom in one of the conference hotels. But you were on the panel this morning with three other university presidents who've come up through student affairs and are now sitting in the president's seat. So we always like to start our conversations by asking you, how did you get to your current spot? Dr. Richard Walker [00:04:12]: It's an interesting story. So my career goal when I got in the field of student affairs was to become a vice president for student affairs. That was my, you know, the ultimate kind of goal for my career, which I achieved when I became vice president for student affairs at the University of Houston. And then I was with my boss, the president of the University Houston and the chancellor for the University of Houston system and her husband. One night at dinner, actually, we were at a c o a CEO in San Diego, and we were talking about what's next for both of us. And I said, what's next for you? What's your what are your plans? She said, what's next for you? And I said, I'm good. If you're good at my performance, I'm good at Houston. I can retire with you at Houston. Dr. Richard Walker [00:04:51]: And she said, I really think you should become a college president. And I said, well, I'm very flattered, but I don't know if I really wanna do that. I watch what you do, and I'm like, not so sure I really wanna do that. So, anyway, years go by, and one Friday afternoon, September or the fall of twenty twenty one, she pops into my office and sits down. And you never know on a Friday afternoon when your boss pops into your office and sits down about, what was this all about? Please, there's not be a pink slip. She said, no. I need to make a change in the presidency at Clear Lake, and I want you to go down there and be the interim president. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:24]: Wow. Dr. Richard Walker [00:05:24]: And I said, okay. And when would this be? She said, in two weeks. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:29]: Wow. Dr. Richard Walker [00:05:30]: She said, but you don't have to tell me now. You can think about it over the weekend and get back to me on Monday. It's one of those things where you're not gonna tell her no. But I'm like, okay. I'll get back to you on Monday. So it's an interesting story because she's always thought I should be a president. I didn't really think I wanted to be a president, but I thought, you know what? This will be a test run. The agreement we had was I'd go down there for the academic year. Dr. Richard Walker [00:05:50]: She was gonna do a national search, and then I'd come back to my position at the University of Houston. And so I got down there, and I liked it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:57]: Okay. Dr. Richard Walker [00:05:59]: And everybody there kept saying, you're applying for the job. Right? And it's a closed search closed presidential search. The only people that knew about it was the search firm and the search committee. So I couldn't say anything. I just said, well, I'm thinking about it. And so I thought about it over holiday. She launched the search committee in December, went to see her in January and said, well, what would you think if I wanted to stay? We talked for a while and she said, I want you to do what you wanna do, but you'll have to compete for it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:25]: Okay. Dr. Richard Walker [00:06:26]: Because I've already lost the search. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:27]: Mhmm. Dr. Richard Walker [00:06:27]: I'm like, well, that's fair. So after ten years of not writing a cover letter and polishing up my resume, I had to get to work. And so I put my name in the hat. The search committee selected four finalists. Mhmm. I was one of the four finalists and actually had to interview for the job and was fortunate enough to be selected. And on May 2022, was named the sixth president of the University of Houston, Colorado. So I let her tell her you were white. Dr. Richard Walker [00:06:52]: You know, it's a it's a funny thing about sometimes people see things in you you don't see in yourself. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:57]: Mhmm. Dr. Richard Walker [00:06:57]: And this is one of those occasions. I've had several happen over the course of my career, but that's how I landed at being president of the University of Houston Clear Lake. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:05]: Your university is only 50 years old, which is, I think, really unique in American higher education in a public university, specifically. I mean, we see that all the time with for profits that are popping up and even some privates, but to have a young public like that is a very unique thing. I believe you said in the panel this morning that your institution exists because of NASA? Dr. Richard Walker [00:07:24]: Correct. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:24]: How did that all happen? Dr. Richard Walker [00:07:26]: So they formed the university before me in 1974 at the request of NASA. NASA really wanted a four year institution close to NASA where its staff could either finish an undergraduate degree or get a master's degree. So through the help of legislators in Texas, they formed the University of Houston Clear Lake, which was launched in 1974 as a upper division institution, so juniors, seniors, and masters. We later, in 2014, we went to downward expansion and started taking freshmen and sophomores. And in 2016, I had a doctoral program. So over the course of our fifty years, we've grown now into a full four year public institution. But it's interesting because we sit in in the city of Houston, but we're in the Bay Area. And that's very different event of the evening about Houston. Dr. Richard Walker [00:08:13]: We're not downtown. We're not the main campus. We are literally on the interstate between downtown and Galveston. So it's called the Bay Area, and it's very unique because the industry that is thriving there is the aerospace and space industry. So I like to tell the story that NASA is literally in our backyard. They're our back backyard neighbor. Boeing is literally our next door neighbor, and the Houston Space Port is just down the road. So very community oriented, partnership oriented workforce development institution, and we're very different than other institutions within the University of Houston system in that we sit on a 524 acre wildlife reserve. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:50]: It's huge. Dr. Richard Walker [00:08:50]: So we worry about deer, alligator, hawks. We don't worry about being in Downtown Houston where the University of Houston downtown has interstates running through your campus. And so it's a very unique opportunity to experience, and I think that makes us stand out as a unique institution and a regional comprehensive in the Greater Houston area. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:09]: Do you thought for a long time that the VPSAC was the pinnacle of career and and where you wanted to retire from ultimately? And, you know, you talked about having made the switch. I'm wondering how you look at higher education differently now from the presidency compared to when the VPSA role was a viewpoint that you had perspective from. Dr. Richard Walker [00:09:28]: That's a great question. Let me back pedal a second. So I went in to be the vice president for student affairs at University Houston, the flagship campus, and then the University of Houston system, the vice presidents on the flagship campus were also vice chancellors for the system. Mhmm. Two years into that vice presidency, another opportunity on the Friday afternoon, the chancellor pops into my office. And she said, I'm reorganizing academic affairs, and I want you to take over enrollment management. Again, you don't tell the chancellor no. And I said to her, you know I don't have any experience in enrollment management. Dr. Richard Walker [00:10:00]: I know. But I need you to turn it around. You've done a great job in student affairs. You can do it. So I said to her, if you think I can do it, I will give it I will give it my best shot. And I tell her that to say, I think she was setting me up because I had a student affairs background. Now she wanted me to have an enrollment background, and she said this will be good for your career, ultimately. So I've got the perspective of student affairs and enrollment management now just sitting in the president's seat. Dr. Richard Walker [00:10:27]: So I think it has provided me with a unique opportunity. I don't come from the academic area. I've taught in both the master's and doctoral level in the College of Education at the University of Houston, but I'm not a full time faculty member. So I've got the faculty experience. But I think the unique part for me is that I'm truly a practitioner. So I know enrollment. I know student affairs. I've learned academic affairs. Dr. Richard Walker [00:10:49]: I've got a great pro I know to hire a great provost to help manage all of that aspect of the institution. But I feel it allows me to have a very different perspective of the student experience and a different way to look at student success. And so I truly look at it holistically, and it's really about everybody being on the same page. No silos. You know, for a long time, this whole thing was about, well, what's the relationship between academic affairs and student affairs? And we talked about that a lot and even in Nasport, like, how do you bridge that gap? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:17]: And We're still having that conversation. Dr. Richard Walker [00:11:19]: Still having that kind of you're trying. And but now I look at it from the perspective of it's everybody. And so my philosophy has been that enrollment is everybody's business. Mhmm. It's not just enrollment. It's not just academic affairs. It's not just student affairs. And student success is everybody's business. Dr. Richard Walker [00:11:34]: We all have to be working together. So I think as being a president now and sitting in a little different perspective, I think I've got a better understanding of truly what student success means and what a true student engagement experience and really creating the environment at the institution to make our students successful. I don't know if I had the same perspective if I had gone to complete academic ground. I just think I have a much more holistic view of sitting in the presidency seat. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:02]: So what does student success mean for you now, and and how is that different than when you were a VPSA? Dr. Richard Walker [00:12:07]: So for now, it really it is a combination of everybody working together in the academic arena. And so sometimes in higher education, things are organized in different buckets in different ways. So at the University of Houston Clear Lake, I have vice presidents and I have a vice president for student affairs, obviously, that reports to me. I also have a vice president for strategic enrollment management that reports to me. Student success, I have associate vice president for student success that reports through academic affairs. And so our student success structure, we call it student success, is academic advising, student success support services, writing center, testing center, math center, and all those aspects. But it's student affairs that house orientation in your student programs Mhmm. Which is a key component of this global process. Dr. Richard Walker [00:12:45]: Then you've got enrollment management, which is all the recruitment pieces. So I think what for me, it's about retention and graduation rates. It's about the process of entering the institution and trying to make it a seamless experience. We have thirty nine percent first generation college students on our campus. We have 41% Pell eligible. We're a Hispanic serving, a minority serving institution. Many of our students don't have somebody to go to and turn to. So it's thinking about how do we not create barriers and roadblocks. Dr. Richard Walker [00:13:15]: To the students, how we're organized, they don't care. And they don't know. They shouldn't have to know. To them, it should be a seamless experience. So for me, it's really about looking at, are we retaining the students? Are we doing the things from a student engagement component outside the classroom? Are we providing those academic support services? Are we drilling down to really see who's having difficulty, why they're having difficulty in making those services available? So it's about graduation rates. It's about retention. At the end of the day, the ultimate sign of success is that those students walk across that commencement stage. And I tell them that at orientation. Dr. Richard Walker [00:13:50]: I've seen you now as you're coming into the institution. My last the senior will be when you walk across that stage, and I'll give you a call. That to me is what's truly successful, and that's what student success is to me. And it's again, I said earlier, but it's the holistic aspect of everybody working together for the same goal. I actually go speak to every new employee orientation, and there's custodians in there, there's finance people in there, there's deans who are in the same orientations. And I tell them, everybody sitting in this room has a role to play in student success. Mhmm. And whether it's bringing in new students, whether it's keeping students here, keeping them engaged, every interaction you have with a student, a parent, a community member is gonna determine our success. Dr. Richard Walker [00:14:32]: And that's been my philosophy as president. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:35]: So if I'm a student affairs professional, sometimes the president can feel really far away, especially if I'm in maybe my first couple of years as a new professional, and I think it's really clear when you're on a campus when that that kind of drive and passion for a president, permeates through the experience of an institution. But if if I'm, your average student affairs professional, how do I kind of take that lead from my president and move forward for student success knowing that my day job is probably focused on a very specific function of the university? Dr. Richard Walker [00:15:06]: So what I tell my team is, I try to be visible first and foremost. I try to be out there. I try to go to events and student events. We try to host events for faculty and staff in terms of their engagement with the institution. I'm a I'm a big enough campus with a small enough campus to be seen. They know who I am. I try to do regular communications about different issues that are happening on the campus so that they can hear from the president. It's not in person. Dr. Richard Walker [00:15:29]: It leads to regular communications of things that that interest them. But But I really would advise any professional in student affairs, maybe in the university. This morning, I talked about it a little bit in the president's panel. I said it's about building relationships. And I truly believe that my success over my forty plus years career, which has predominantly been in student affairs until the last three and a half years, is because I was able to engage and build relationships across the entire institution, whether it was deans in academic affairs or faculty or whether it was in administration finance, whether it was in advancement in fundraising, whether it was enrollment management, it does not matter. I believe that both from the University of Houston system where I've been for the last in my fourteenth year and twenty four years at the University of Miami, I really truly believe it was about building those relationships. And I tell younger professionals, make sure you're reaching across the institution. Don't silo yourself only with getting to know and understand your job. Dr. Richard Walker [00:16:27]: Yes. That's your top priority. I want you to be successful in that first. But as you think about the work that you're doing, take opportunities or ask for those opportunities Mhmm. To get involved and engage in other aspects of the institution. That will make you a better student affairs professional. It will make your institution. That will make you a better student affairs professional. Dr. Richard Walker [00:16:43]: It will make your career trajectory something that you can talk about, how you've been able to interact and interface with multiple areas of the institution. Everybody doesn't get that opportunity. But especially at Cleric, we're a small enough institution, you have that opportunity to do so, and don't lose the advantage of that. Take advantage of that. Ask. Can I do this? Can I do that? Can I be involved in this? You know, sometimes I think my my team can be a little annoyed with me because because I was in enrollment management, the first thing I do every morning is look at the enrollment reports. As a president? As a president. When I turn on my computer, the enrollment reports pop up. Dr. Richard Walker [00:17:18]: And so I look at those every every morning, and so I dive into the data. And so because I I understand it and know it, I know that can be a little annoying. I try not to annoy them in too much, but I know how to ask the questions. And so I also tell people to learn about how to how to use data to your advantage. I think using data is really important as well. So I would say professionals in student affairs, youngers who go into the career, take advantage of all those kinds of opportunities that might present themselves or ask for them to have those professional development type Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:57]: time. And, you know, we've seen the provost rule really being that kind of pipeline into the presidency, and that's really to shift, I think, in the last five to ten years in particular. We're seeing, you know, just with our panel today, we had Leah Barrett from Northeast Community College. We had doctor Lourdes White from DePauw, who Lourdes has been on the podcast as well. So listeners, if you wanna hear more from Lourdes, I think you have to go back probably two or three seasons to find her episode. Yourself, Richard, and then also, Dwan Womack from, Claflin University. So seeing all of you make that shift from student affairs to president, we also see folks like, doctor John Hoffman, who's at Bemidji State, Mordecai doctor Mordecai Brownlee who's at Community College of Aurora. You all are making the move that I think a lot of us didn't really think of as possible or we thought the VPSA role was the ceiling for a long time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:42]: How are you seeing that shift happen, and how are you seeing VPSAs who want to move into that presidency be most successful with that journey? Dr. Richard Walker [00:18:50]: I think the shift is that institutions of higher education and boards of trustees or boards of regents who actually do the recruiting for these presidencies and higher search firms and search firms themselves understand that there is a skill set that's developed in student affairs that's different than academic affairs. And if you're looking now at the challenges that institutions of higher education are facing, the things that are challenges or as above, you look at those opportunities. Those are not the same as they used to be. Yeah. And so some of the training that folks coming from a traditional academic background, from a faculty member to a department chair, to a dean, to a provost, to a president. I don't think some of those skill sets are as developed. That's why now you're also seeing a lot of provost institutes of provosts that wanna be a president, and now they're really training provosts. How do you be a president? And then I say that in in a way that's really about taking the opportunity to think about the skill set and what you bring to the table. Dr. Richard Walker [00:19:51]: You know, I'll go back to COVID, and this was said this morning, I think, in the, I don't know, presidential panel. Who did most presidents and institutions turn to to get the institution through COVID? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:01]: Student affairs. Dr. Richard Walker [00:20:01]: Student affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:02]: Yeah. Dr. Richard Walker [00:20:02]: And that's why I'm talking about that about that skill set because they have student affairs and student affairs vice presidents, and teams in student affairs have the ability and the skill set to look at it broadly, with a different lens and a truly academic lens. Yeah. We had to switch academic programs and everything had to go online. That was the faculty. That was the dean. That was the provost. That was IT. Mhmm. Dr. Richard Walker [00:20:23]: But constructing how you make all that happen and being at the table to help guide that process and thinking about health and mental health and all these factors that intervene in COVID and even having to go online with therapy and and and having psychologists and psych and psychiatrists available in teletherapy. I remember at, I tried for the longest time to get my director of counseling center to move into teletherapy, and she just resisted and resisted. It was amazing how fast when COVID hit, she converted. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:54]: Instantly. Yeah. Dr. Richard Walker [00:20:54]: Instantly. Mhmm. And now it's successful. Mhmm. So I think part of it is just this transition of what's the skill set needed. I think leaders at at the at the board level understand a little difference. You're also not you're also seeing people come into presences outside of higher education. Mhmm. Dr. Richard Walker [00:21:10]: Like, people who've led industry and business. Mhmm. You see that's been developing as well. And so I think some of the search firms and the people who lead these processes are now saying, don't think in the box. Start to look outside the box as well. Mhmm. To find the best fit for your institution. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:29]: So if I'm a coordinator of in student affairs right now and I know that my aspiration is to be a president, what advice would you give that professional who is just starting out but knows they need to build these skills along the way? Dr. Richard Walker [00:21:42]: I would say just to take advantage of the opportunities as they present themselves, and I'm gonna use myself as a story. So when I started into student affairs, my first full time job was at the, at the time, the Central Missouri State University or the University of Central Missouri. And I took a job as a coordinator of Greek affairs, but it was housed in student housing and residential life Interesting. Because I was gonna have fraternity and sororities, pandemic, advising, all that. But on that campus, all the Greeks are housed in on campus housing. So I also had all their housing responsibilities. So my I said to myself, I'm getting two kinds of different opportunities in one job. I left there, went to the University of Miami's assistant dean of students, and stayed in the dean of student assistant dean associate dean for ten years doing fraternities and sororities, Greek life, and student conduct. Dr. Richard Walker [00:22:32]: Mhmm. I took the Miami job because I've already been doing Greek life, so that I had to kind of had that down. But it had conduct from a residence hall perspective, but not full judicial conduct for the campus. Campus. So I thought about that. That would help my portfolio. This is ultimately where I wanna go to be a vice president. And then about ten years in, doctor Patricia Whiteley became the vice president for student affairs at the University of Miami. Dr. Richard Walker [00:22:54]: And doctor Whiteley is the NASCO board chair and was my mentor. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:59]: Yeah. Pillar of the profession. Dr. Richard Walker [00:23:00]: Yes. Pillar of the profession, my mentor in this whole process. She was the director of student life in the university center. When she was named vice president, she said, I want you to move out of the dean's office and move into my position. Interesting story is I initially told her no because I really wanna be the dean's student, and I thought the dean was gonna retire in two years. So I was gonna hang on two more years in the dean's office, and then you may be the dean of students. I'll be happy. And about a week later, I always said, maybe it would be good for me to go do this. Dr. Richard Walker [00:23:25]: Even if it's for two years, it's a different experience. It's a skill set I don't have. I was gonna have the student center, run the student center. I was gonna have orientation and student activities and all those kinds of pieces that I had not not done. There's a RAS Keller, which is a campus pub and restaurant on that campus. It's not managed by food service. It was gonna report to me. I was gonna learn how to run a bar and a and a pub, but that was interesting. Dr. Richard Walker [00:23:49]: But I did I said finally said, you know what? I'm gonna I wanna do this. She said, okay. And it's a good thing I did because the dean didn't retire for seven more years. And I say that because she saw a different skill set in Navy that I wasn't sure, you know, if that's really what I wanted to do. But when I thought about it, I'm like, it's a difference. It's another experience to add to my portfolio. Mhmm. It's something I haven't done. Dr. Richard Walker [00:24:08]: And so from there, I was promoted to assistant vice president, ultimately associate vice president to keep adding stuff to my portfolio like career services and special projects for the president and all kind of fun stuff. But I say that to say, think about the opportunities you're given. And what I tell people is that sometimes those opportunities present themselves when they're not even looking for them. In that case, I wasn't looking to I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't looking to move. But I'd have turned it down. I wouldn't have advanced and had knowledge in all these other aspects of student affairs that I end up gaining. The same thing with doctor Couture in at If I had said no to her opportunities to take on enrollment and ultimately become a president, I wouldn't have gotten to the presidency. Dr. Richard Walker [00:24:49]: So I tell people all the time is don't have this road map that's so stringent that you can't adjust if the opportunity presents itself. And I also tell people, people are watching you. They're watching your job performance. Mhmm. Even when you don't know they're watching your job Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:04]: performance. Yeah. Dr. Richard Walker [00:25:05]: And they so make sure you always put your best foot forward. But as people are observing you and if you're good at what you do, then people take note of that. And those opportunities that will begin to develop because people have been watching your career and saying that person is really good. They're talented. They can do something different. I can help them advance in their career. So that I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's I think that's kinda how, you know, you have to think about it is, think about those opportunities as they present themselves to you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:33]: I try to live by the personal model of life is better when you say yes to things, and it sounds very similar to kind of what you're advising folks to do. But we also have a lot of professionals who are hungry for those experiences and maybe aren't in a position where those opportunities are as easily as available. What advice would you give those professionals on how to find them or how to ask for them? Dr. Richard Walker [00:25:51]: So typically, I would say start with those conversations with your supervisor. Or if you report to a director and directors report to ADPs or to the VP, have those conversations with your ADP and even with your vice president about those opportunities that interest you. I will tell the story about my current vice president for student affairs, Doctor. Tina Palson. She worked for me at the University of Houston as director of the student center, student center for involvement and leadership. We sat down and had coffee at Starbucks one day to talk about her career and where she really wanted to go. And she was kind of landlocked. And I and what I mean is that her husband is a physician. Dr. Richard Walker [00:26:28]: His practice is in The Woodlands, which is North North Of Houston. She goes, we're not going anywhere. Mhmm. Like, his successful practice, I'm kinda locked into the greater Houston area. I really wanna become a vice president. And I said, well, that's because that's a challenge because you can't you can't really move. So you're in the greater Houston area. You have to think about that. Dr. Richard Walker [00:26:48]: So when my vice president left and I had to hire an interim, I remember that conversation that we had at Starbucks about her desire to advance in her career. So I took her to lunch, and I said, how do you feel about coming to Clear Life and being being interim vice president for student affairs? And she thought to me, really? I said, yes. Really? I'm I'm giving you an opportunity. Now I'm gonna do a search. If you like it, you've qualified. You meet the qualification. You can apply, and we'll we'll see where it goes. But it's an opportunity, and I said I went back to that Starbucks conversation. Dr. Richard Walker [00:27:20]: It said it came to mind as I was thinking about this. So who do I know that I trust to come in here right away within the next few weeks and step in and do a great job for me? At the end of the day, I did a national search. I had three finalists, and she was the top candidate. Mhmm. And she got the position. And so I think part of it was just being willing to have conversations with people, you know, to say this is kind of what I'm thinking. This is what I wanna do. And, you know, even though sometimes that intentionally make those up, go have coffee. Dr. Richard Walker [00:27:46]: Go do I think most anybody, whether it's a director or a vice president or associate vice president, they'll have those conversations. They're very willing to have those conversations. I think in our profession, people like people coming to them, kind of the mentor thing, and for advice and give me guidance. And they kept me think through how do I get to where I ultimately wanna go, and what's that career ambition. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:07]: Both you and your, your vice president took the risk of becoming an interim leader before taking the full time position. That's a really scary move. Dr. Richard Walker [00:28:16]: It is. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:17]: Especially knowing that if you're vacating something, you may not be able to go back to that thing. Dr. Richard Walker [00:28:21]: Point of advice, always guarantee you can go back because I made sure that when I agreed to go to Clear Lake, I had it in writing from the chancellor that at the end of the interim term, I was going back to my existing position. I said to doctor Palson, I'm gonna give you the offer to come as interim. You go to your the vice president. The time it's gonna be the interim vice president, and you get it in writing that your position is guaranteed to go back. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:45]: That is a very, very important move. We don't always see that because sometimes the interim position's at a different university system Right. Or maybe even in a different Right. Different state or something like that. So that security feels really good Yes. Comparative to, you know, maybe you don't have something to go back to. Right. But but even if you go back to that position, you're not the same professionals when you left it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:05]: So had you decided to go back to that VPSA role, how do you think you would have been different as a professional? Dr. Richard Walker [00:29:12]: That's a a really good question. I think I would have had different insights. I did at the in that role as VP for ten years. So I was kind of at that tipping point of what's next. I I kind of tackled the initial goals that the president and chancellor had given me when I stepped into the role. She was very specific. Two specific goals I need you to accomplish initially. That's why I think then the enrollment came later because she's like, okay. Dr. Richard Walker [00:29:36]: You did those pretty quickly. Now now I need you to do this. But I think the challenge for me would have been, okay. What's next? Like, what's the next big thing for student affairs going back into my role at the University of Houston? Mhmm. I think that and that's a question that she was starting to ask herself and asking interims and and etcetera. And me, I think, would ask me the same question. What is next? What's the next big thing in student affairs? What are we not doing at the University of Houston that the best in affairs divisions across the country are doing? So I think I would've been challenged to think differently, and that was a little bit scary because I felt the division was in really good shape, and it was very steady. But I had a chance for a president who pushed the envelope, and she was never satisfied. Dr. Richard Walker [00:30:19]: She called her big rocks. What's the next big thing? What's the next big rock? I mean, the University of Houston, as president, when she came in, the first big thing was to become a research one institution. She did that a year ahead of schedule, became an art. And then, you know, what's the next big thing? And then we were sitting in cabinets and retreats talking about the next big thing. We all decided, what about we just have some medical school? Not an easy task. We all agreed. We were gonna give it a shot. University of Houston now has a medical school. Dr. Richard Walker [00:30:46]: Next big goal was I wanna be in a power five athletic, also not easily attainable. University of Houston is now in the big 12. Now her new big rock is getting to AAU, has become an AAU institution. So I say all that to say I was gonna be challenged Yeah. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:02]: Because Dr. Richard Walker [00:31:02]: I was gonna have to think differently and figure out what what was gonna be next. But I think the presidency would have given me a different ability to look at things a little bit differently in that way as not having run the entire institution. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:16]: What surprised you most coming into the presidency? Dr. Richard Walker [00:31:19]: I'll be honest for me, shifting size of institutions and shifting budget. I was on the flagship campus, 47,000 students. My divisional budget was double my entire institution budget in front of me. That's a challenge. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:32]: That's definitely a different scale. Dr. Richard Walker [00:31:33]: That's a completely different scale. So that was probably my biggest adjustment. The other piece I would say, given a thought about earlier where we are in the Bay Area, it is very, very, very community oriented. We have more little mayors of townships and chambers of commerce. I got the more chamber events than I ever fall about being in the city at the at the University of Houston. But that's important. That community engagement and the visibility of the presidency is highly well respected in those arenas, and people wanna see that president. So I now sit on two boards, community boards. Dr. Richard Walker [00:32:08]: I'm on the Bay Area Houston Economic Partnership board of directors, and I'm on the Clear Lake Regional Chamber of Commerce. I'm not sure. Like, the HCA, Clear Lake Hospital Mhmm. Board of trustees. And I'm on also an unofficial ex officio member of the Clear Lake chamber board. But those kinds of things are important that I didn't see see at the university Mhmm. If that makes sense. Like, doctor Couture was the president was not she'd go to these events, but she wasn't that engaged. Dr. Richard Walker [00:32:35]: And here is a community expectation. Majority of our alums stay in the Clear Lake area. We've got 80,000 plus alumni now, but most of them work in the greater Houston area, and many of them right there in the greater Clear Lake area. So that connectivity, is really, really important. I Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:51]: wanna talk a little bit of the hard stuff because you're in Texas Dr. Richard Walker [00:32:54]: Yep. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:55]: And Texas state Legislature has made a lot of choices lately around trans identity, around DEI in general, around some other things that are kind of challenging for universities who are trying to meet the needs to be inclusive for students who come with all sorts of identities. So how are you navigating this with your teams and with the students who still need the support, but maybe you're a bit hampered by what you can actually do according to the law? Dr. Richard Walker [00:33:20]: So the so Texas legislature only meets every other year. Mhmm. So maybe they meet in the odd years. So Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:26]: And only for about sixty days. Dr. Richard Walker [00:33:28]: Yes. From January till the May first of June. So the last legislative session in '23, '2 big bills, but I'll talk about the DEI bill. It's called senate bill 17, which called for the elimination of DEI at public institutions of higher education in the state of Texas. All aspects, training, programming, positions. So as we work through that bill process, and this is something about just the politics and it's probably similar in most states within Texas. Bills always start on the drastic end. Mhmm. Dr. Richard Walker [00:34:09]: And so we had to tell everybody, don't freak out when the first version of the bill comes up. We're gonna work through it. At some point, we'll get it hopefully better than where where it started. It may not be perfect. So we advocated and worked through the process and worked with legislators on both sides of the aisle to kinda find a happy medium of where the majority wanted to go, but the things that we needed to do to continue to support our students. So there were a few carve outs in that process. So there were a few carve outs in that process in the final bill that got passed. We still were gonna have to eliminate all DEI and the training and those kinds of things, but there were carve outs for academic programs around diversity, equity, inclusion, for faculty research, For student organizations, this was not gonna apply to them. Dr. Richard Walker [00:34:56]: They wanted to make sure that programs and services were being provided to all students. Then they did some carve out around first generation, low economic, economically disadvantaged. Those are all words that are in the bill. So at the University of Sinclair, like, I had a chief diversity and inclusion officer that reported directly to me. Interestingly enough, I was the only institution of four in the University of Houston system that had a chief diversity and inclusion officer. So I had to ultimately eliminate that position. We had a student center for diversity, equity, and inclusion, which we had to eliminate. And what we did is we redesigned the support services to create the center for student advocacy and Community. Dr. Richard Walker [00:35:36]: Mhmm. And then we wrote job descriptions. We already had basic needs in terms of food pantry, emergency grants, and all those kind of things. And and student advocacy was actually already housed in the Dean of Students Office. We pulled it out of the Dean of Students Office, put it in this department, and then focus the community piece on the belonging stuff and working with students, student organizations to provide this belonging activities. Everything, any advertisements even for the student organizations had to say all students are invited. You had to make it clear that everything is for everybody. And so that's how we kind of worked through the process. Dr. Richard Walker [00:36:09]: We did that. University of Houston did something similar that they copied. I was proud. We actually were ahead of them. They said, can we have all your job descriptions? Can we see what you're doing? Now part of this process and in this bill required each board of regents in their seven systems of higher education in Texas. Each board at the end of this last year had to certify that that all of its institutions in their system complied with s p 17. So they all we all had to submit reports. Each board submitted a report. Dr. Richard Walker [00:36:37]: It's interesting. About two weeks ago, a letter came out from the Senate Higher Education Committee and one of the other senators saying, well, every border we just complied and submitted their reports, they did not find them to be satisfied. We also had they dealt with the situation in in the state with UT Austin back in the summer where they kinda went after UT Austin first, and that's very politics. Flagship between UT and A and M. They're the two that, you know, are the most well done. The Diddy field that they had all that they had done is reorganize and rename things and really didn't eliminate it. So last summer, they literally had to completely redo. They created a division of, I think, community engagement, and they literally had to close it down and eliminate 60 something exact positions. Dr. Richard Walker [00:37:19]: So we're going through a similar process right now. I don't think we're on the list, but did everybody go far enough in what their intent was? So we'll see what comes out of this legislative session. We may have additional bills. But what we've tried to say is we're going to support all of our students. And so some of the services, like, in our campus, LGBT services were were part of the Center for Diversity and Inclusion. At the University Maybe it was a completely separate department, but they had to close that. So still trying to provide those services, but trying to operate, we eliminate all of our training. We eliminate all of our programming. Dr. Richard Walker [00:37:50]: We said we're gonna start all over. We don't want any perception that we're still trying to hang on to this or hang on to that because that's not gonna get us anywhere. So we really have really kinda started from scratch and tried to redesign everything. And if you go to our website, it's we're very careful about what we do, what we say we do, the things that we're providing to our students. So it's still supporting our students and all of our students, but shifting the contacts. You just don't use d, e, or I in your language, in your description, and it's totally interesting to see. But so far, so taxes with like Florida and some others were kind of the first ones to get down that path, and now you see what's kinda happening in other states and happening at the federal level. So you can do it. Dr. Richard Walker [00:38:30]: You can still provide the support. I think the importance is to make sure you're always just gonna you're gonna support the students and figure out a way to do that without tripping over yourself or using the inappropriate language that they feel is inappropriate. Not everybody feels is inappropriate. And so you have to work within the box you're given, but still have got to make sure your students are supported. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:49]: How have the students been responding to these changes? Dr. Richard Walker [00:38:52]: Our students have responded pretty well to that. I think they understood it, and they've worked well with us to kinda make sure that we are providing the support that they need. And so far, it's been so good. So we'll see where all this goes because it's we're in a legislative session now, and so they're not finished with DEI. I think there'll be something more coming out. I think the the fear now is that they could try to tackle academic programs and academic research, but we're not there again. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:20]: We're also in a position where it's, you know, it's March what's today? The sixteenth Mhmm. 2025, and we are about a week past the Office of Civil Rights being effectively eliminated. So I'm sure we're still awaiting what will happen at the federal level for how this is gonna affect education looks like. Dr. Richard Walker [00:39:35]: Yes. The whole thing around Title nine and how that's been implemented, it's it's changed so many times. It's been that's been frustrating because it's changed with each administration. Yes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:44]: The 02/2004. Dr. Richard Walker [00:39:46]: I feel like we have constantly been rewriting our sexual harassment and our sexual misconduct policies, and they're lengthy. We have a system policy, and it's a lengthy process. And just when you think you've got it figured out Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:57]: It changes. Dr. Richard Walker [00:39:58]: It changes. So we'll see where where all of this goes now in the in the new standpoint student financial aid Yeah. Pell Grants and those kind of things. I mean, 41% of our students are on Pell Grants. I mean, that's not something that functionally, I don't believe, you could just put back to The States. That's a massive undertaking with the student financial aid and the loan process and all of that. I'm really worried about how that impacts students and the the affordability because many of our students, if that if that goes under and we can't get that to the point where it's functional and and serving the students that we need to serve, that's what worries me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:38]: You talked about this morning that affordability is the number one concern for you and your students at your university. I think that's probably shared by most college presidents. Is there anything specific or unique that your institution is doing to support that affordability mission? Dr. Richard Walker [00:40:51]: Well, I think even the state of Texas, I think our our governors even concerned about access and affordability. That's why the two years coming out of COVID, we did not raise local tuition, and that was our decision because we just didn't think that was the right thing to do coming out of COVID. Then the last two years, the governor said he wouldn't approve a local tuition increase, and now he said the same thing for the next. So we will go six years without increasing that local tuition stream. So we're really trying to take a look at our awarding philosophy. I challenged my new vice president for strategic role management to take a step back and see, are we utilizing all of the aid that we have available? Available? Because we get Texas grants and other grants from the state, and then we have to set aside a certain amount of our local tuition dollars. 15 percent has to go to students in need with Texas residency. So there are some built in aid programs. Dr. Richard Walker [00:41:41]: We've asked for an increase in Texas grant for the legislature for this next cycle, again, to try to address the affordability piece. We have transfer money for transfer students that's not meeting the the gap that needs to meet for students who are transferring in, so that's kind of a different population. As part of my investiture to become president, we created the presidential excellence scholarship. So we've been raising money for that program, raising trying to get more endowed scholarships, getting people to invest in students and presenting and doing scholarships on that aspect of so we're trying to do but I just I wanna make sure I think we can do a better job at our awarding philosophy and make sure we're max optimizing the funds that we have available to award, and are we award and are we awarding that strategically? Mhmm. And really taking a look and that can change annually. I mean, if you do your if you do your homework and really dive into how you're awarding, there are shifts that happen almost on an annual basis. So for example, if you're awarding a scholarship at the University of Houston, we had something about academic excellence, and there were three tiers. Might be a 5,000, a 3,000, and then 1,000. Dr. Richard Walker [00:42:45]: Academically, you performed perform to certain levels. You were guaranteed those tiers. We would do an analysis every year. But what if we lowered this one by 500? We put 500 more on this one, and there's you can run the data to show you, yes. That would make an impact here. We're not making an impact here. So if you use analytics to truly help you do your awarding philosophies and making sure you're really meeting the needs of the students, because many students today, especially being a HSIMS, they don't want debt. And so you also are are braided as an institution on how much debt do your students graduate having. Dr. Richard Walker [00:43:19]: Mhmm. And they don't wanna see high levels of debt. I mean, that's a bragging point. If you can get your amount of debt your students leave the institution with low adopt, it's something to talk about about when you're talking about affordability in higher education. It's a selling point. And it's Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:34]: something that students will talk to each other about. The theme of our season is the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I'm gonna dig into our theme questions. So looking at the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of? Dr. Richard Walker [00:43:50]: That's a fascinating question. I'm gonna have to think back after forty something Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:53]: years. You've seen some changes in Dr. Richard Walker [00:43:55]: the past. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:55]: I have Dr. Richard Walker [00:43:56]: seen a lot of changes, so I'm trying to figure out historically from the profession. You know, when I first got into the fashion profession, I'll be honest, student success wasn't a buzzword. He really wasn't well defined. That's not what we really at least in my career, we had talked about that. We talked about recruitment and engagement, but we didn't frame it in the context of retention and success, like, measuring that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:21]: Yeah. Dr. Richard Walker [00:44:22]: That wasn't early on in my career, but I think that's something now that forever will be ingrained in who we are. It's part of the what we have to do to convince the public as well. Higher education is well worth the investment dollars Mhmm. And to talk about how much does it cost, how quickly can you get your degree. Because the sooner you can get into job market, the sooner you will make a good living for yourself and your family. And so really thinking about don't take six years. You know, we talk about six year graduation rates. We really started to try to shift or what does top don't talk about six. Dr. Richard Walker [00:44:56]: Yes. Nationally, that's the methodology. We need to be talking about four year graduation rates. That's where we need to focus. Six is long in my opinion. When I was going to school and my parents put me through, they're like, you have four years. I had to figure it out. I had to go to summer school, but I've got finished in four years. Dr. Richard Walker [00:45:13]: So now it's more about trying to say to students, you have to take 30 credits over the course of a year, not fifteen and fifteen because everybody used to think about spring and didn't really talk about summer. Now it's really trying to say to them, then you have to do it all. You can do it fall, spring, and summer. You can do twelve and twelve and six over the summer. So I think part of the shift for me is about also talking about student success in the context of time to completion. Also, we've started talking about much more than we did early on about wasted credit hours, making sure we're creating pathways for students, especially transfer students, going to a community college who have a desire to transfer into a four year institution, to focus on only take the classes you need. If you know the community college, when you get your associate's degree, you wanna transfer to the University of Houston Clear Lake in engineering, we've got a path. And working with community colleges in those paths, yeah, we've had MOUs and transfer agreements and those kind of things. Dr. Richard Walker [00:46:09]: We gotta look at it even a little bit more differently. And, really, what we started to assume, what why I've seen it change as president, we have something called the Houston DPS, Houston pathways dotted pathways, which all the four year institutions and the community colleges in the greater Houston areas are working together to make these seamless pathways. We have faculty at the community college and at the universities in Clear Lake get together, especially with San Jacinto, who's our largest speaker transfer, and talk about curriculum challenges. Okay. This math at at San Jacinto is not exactly this math at Clear Lake and the two faculties had about to get together. So I think that's been a shift also that you didn't hear as much about. We had articulation agreements, but, sometimes they paid attention to them and they necessarily didn't. So I think that's been a change. Dr. Richard Walker [00:46:53]: Also, in student affairs, development and fundraising. Early on was not something that was invested in and looked at as the institution as a funding source to raise philanthropic dollars. Mhmm. I think what we had to start saying to folks is they're outside of the classroom engagement experiences. For some students, that was their connectivity. In fundraising and development, there's always that, oh, what college were you in? When college did you graduate for? And everybody was putting a college bucket, and that's how the fundraising was developed. And some of us in student affairs had to start going to our advancement officers, and I did that at the University of Houston. I said, you're missing an opportunity. Dr. Richard Walker [00:47:25]: You're leaving money on the table. Some of these students are not gonna give to you from the College of Engineering. They just don't want to. But all these student leaders that were RAs and key student leaders on the campus, they did not get to opportunities within student affairs, more private philanthropy. That's been a big shift in my opinion from the start to kind of where we are today. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:44]: I've seen a big shift in that specifically related to fundraising for fundamental needs works, and people being willing to put their donation dollars towards knowing that this is going to go to food pantries or, going to provide emergency grants to students, that type of thing. And we weren't fundraising for that ten years ago either. Dr. Richard Walker [00:47:59]: We weren't. I was actually in gags with Amelia, actually, around the whole looking at emergency financial aid, emergency grants, emergency loan programs. When NASPA first kinda got into that space and started taking a look at, with some help, NASPA got some grants on. I was on several of those work group task force that Amelia was heading up as we start to think about what does this now begin? Should it begin to look like? And I think in both the University of Houston Clear Lake and then my work at University of Houston, basic needs, food pantries, emergency grants, all those kinds of things are much more well established. And to your point, I think, yes, people are much more willing because they see that as something tangible. It's an immediate need students have. So we started seeing a lot more gifts of of people willing to invest in the basic needs programs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:46]: Looking at the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Dr. Richard Walker [00:48:50]: I think the continued focus on student life, student engagement, student involvement on the campus. I think that's going well. I think career development, career opportunities, career engagement, intern we call it internships, spiritual learning opportunities, anything that that's in that nature. I think there's been a shift in the turn in mental mental health. I think institutions now are putting the money that they need to put into mental health. I think we saw that coming out of COVID. There was a real real section. And as talked about earlier, teletherapy, and investing in these those different kind of opportunities to create teletherapy so students can get contact anytime they want it, anytime they need it, 03:00 in the morning. Dr. Richard Walker [00:49:33]: Mhmm. I think those kinds of things are going well. I think there's a understanding and a need that you gotta invest. That's a key component of the student success because if they're not physically well and mentally well, they're gonna drop out or stop out, and you won't you don't want those to be reasons that they're not completing and continuing their education. I think those things are going well in student affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:55]: Mental health emergencies almost never happen during business hours. Correct. So it makes sense that we've shifted to a more after hours type of model. And, you know, we still want students to be able to see our counselors during business hours for their regular sessions. It's difficult to say, I'm so sorry. We can't answer your call even though you're in absolute distress because it's 9PM. Dr. Richard Walker [00:50:14]: Correct. I absolutely agree. In fact, we pulled some data recently. We're looking at our our data in our counseling and mental health center. And I think last year, we had 420 some or 60 something unique users coming into the counseling center. We had over 1,200 using our teletherapy. Dr. Jill Creig

4/17/25 • 61:59

In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, host Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Cynthia Hernandez, Vice President for Student Success at Texas State University, to delve into her extensive experience in student affairs and her vision for the future of the field. This episode is a must-listen for anyone involved in higher education, offering insights into leadership, professional development, and the evolving role of student affairs in fostering student success. Dr. Hernandez's journey into student affairs is a story of passion and dedication. With over 25 years of progressive leadership, her rise through the ranks is anything but ordinary. From an early involvement as a student leader to her current role guiding a division of over 400 staff, Cynthia's trajectory offers invaluable lessons for professionals at all stages of their careers. Although she initially embarked on a STEM path, earning a Bachelor's in Animal Science, she discovered her true calling in higher education, catalyzed by the guidance of mentors who recognized her leadership potential. Throughout the episode, Dr. Hernandez emphasizes the importance of a holistic approach to student success. Drawing on her STEM background, she uniquely applies analytical skills to organizational leadership, demonstrating how diverse experiences can enhance student affairs work. Her perspective is particularly valuable for listeners interested in the interplay between data-driven decision-making and the empathetic, student-centered focus of student affairs. Key themes in this episode include strategies for professional development and career advancement in student affairs. Dr. Hernandez shares candid insights into "managing up" and the importance of building institutional commitment. Whether you're a new professional or a seasoned expert, her advice on leveraging opportunities and committing to lifelong learning is sure to resonate and inspire action. Furthermore, the conversation delves into the challenges and opportunities presented by current legislative changes affecting higher education. Dr. Hernandez advocates for a proactive stance, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a focus on student success, despite external pressures. Her ability to navigate these dynamics while supporting her team and institution serves as a powerful example of adaptive leadership in unpredictable times. For those eager to delve deeper into the evolving landscape of student affairs and uncover strategies to enhance student success, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to gain a wealth of insights from Dr. Cynthia Hernandez and be inspired by her commitment to fostering inclusive, effective educational environments. Whether you're on a campus or beyond, her story is a testament to the profound impact student affairs professionals can have on the lives of students and the wider academic community. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, sheherhers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to another episode of essay voices from the field. Today, we are bringing you the second live recorded conversation from the NASPA annual conference where we sat down with NASPA pillar of the profession, Dr. Cynthia l Hernandez. Dr. Hernandez currently serves as the vice president for student success at Texas State University, providing leadership for a comprehensive division comprised of over 400 staff housed in 12 departments, including housing and res life, dean of students, counseling services, health services, campus rec, Disability Services, Career Services, LBJ Student Center, Student Involvement, Student Learning Assistance Center, Academic Success Initiatives, and Assessment Planning and Technology Services. With over twenty five years of progressive leadership experience, Dr. Hernandez focuses on enhancing student success and learning in the co curricular through inclusive student centered programs, services, and initiatives, and communicating the impact and value of student success work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:14]: She is a scholar practitioner and an active member of professional organizations, including NASPA, where she serves on the board of directors. Prior to joining Texas State University, doctor Hernandez served for fifteen years in the office of the vice president for student affairs at Texas A and M University as an assistant and associate VP and as an adjunct professor in the department of educational admin and human resource development. She earned her bachelor's degree in animal science and a master's degree in educational administration with an emphasis in student affairs admin and a doctorate in ed admin from Texas A and M University. Doctor Hernandez began her student success career in student orientation, transition, and retention and programming both at Northern Arizona University and Texas A and M. In addition to being an active professional member of NASPA, she's also active in NODA, which is the Association for Orientation Transition and Retention in Higher Ed, where she held the position of president. She's also served as the chair for NASPA's AVP initiatives steering committee and as a faculty member and director for the NASPA AVP Institute. Her areas of professional interest include the organization leadership and management of operating a division of student affairs, academic partnerships and collaborations, student learning in the co curricular, comprehensive program reviews, strategic planning, threat assessment, Latinas in higher education, and higher education policy. She also provides her personal statement. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:28]: I believe in selfless service, the duty to do good, and the responsibility that comes with influence honoring the impact we have on others and the world. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as we loved having it. And like our other live episodes, this one might have slightly different audio quality, but the conversation is rich. Cynthia, welcome to SA Voices. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:02:45]: Thank you. Excited to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:47]: So you are our second conversation here live at the annual conference. We're so excited to feature you, as well as an award winner this year. Yeah. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:02:55]: Thank you very much. Excited to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:56]: Congratulations. Thank you. But Cynthia, you have been part of the student affairs profession for about twenty five years at this point. Spent most of your career in Texas And we always love to start our episodes by asking our guests, how did you get to your current seat? Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:03:10]: Well, thank you very much. You know, it's it's interesting and I think like many of us in the profession, we don't set out to being in the profession. I started my undergraduate degree at Texas A and M University, and one of the wonderful things about that institution is it allows you to really flourish as a student leader. There's so many student run programs, and I got involved. I got involved when I was a student even as a freshman starting out. And I remember, though, the person that really led me into the profession before she probably even knew it was my own RA. I had a scholarship going out to A and M. That's the way I was able to go. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:03:49]: And we had to live in a residence hall, and I lived there. And halfway through my freshman semester, my RA tapped me on the shoulder and said, you do really good at trying to create community with people on the floor, and I think you'd be a great RA. And I was like, I didn't even know really what an RA did, but I did. I I ended up applying and getting it. And so that was really my first foray in. And then the next piece of that was, at that time, you had to take an RA class before you could get hired, and you had to make a certain grade in the class before you could get hired. So my RA class was taught by the director of residence life. His name is Ron Sasse, and he took a liking to me. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:04:35]: We I enjoyed being in his class, and he stayed with me throughout, my RA career as well as my orientation leader career. And when it was time for me to figure out what I wanted to do so I came in to A and M as an aerospace engineering major. I grew up in Houston and really wanted to work on the shuttle. And then ended up an animal science major because I thought I wanted to be a vet. And then I decided I didn't wanna do either of those things. And he walked into my little cubicle as an undergraduate, for my student org, and he gave me a photograph copy. And his name was actually written in Sharpie on the on the front of it, a photograph copy of the student personnel point of view. Oh, okay. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:05:23]: And he said, I think you should read this and tell him, let's talk about it. And we did and it unlocked this love and passion for not only higher education, but for the field of student affairs. And it was then that I decided to to go into graduate school and and go into this path. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:40]: But you finished your bachelor's degree in animal science. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:05:43]: I did. I do. I have a bachelor's of science in animal science. And I think about this all the time. Growing up for me, I was always strong in math and science. And so, naturally, that's what everybody focused on. I got sent to a lot of STEM things when I was in high school. I thought, well, that's what I need to lean into because that's what I'm good at. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:06:05]: And it wasn't until I got to college and really finding the work that I'm doing now that I realized just because you're good at something doesn't mean you have to do that thing. Now I will tell you that my math and science, and we can explore this later on in the in the podcast if you want, but gives me a strength. I think that might be a little different in the work that I do and how I approach my work, but I realized that I really needed to find that passion and purpose and I did that in the profession. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:33]: I am curious how that STEM strength shows up as a VPSA. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:06:38]: It does quite a bit and and one of the things that I think about and I always have to Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:43]: give this caveat and I I found this out when Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:06:46]: I because I'm a first time VPSA and I found this out with my own staff. I always have to first say, we always have to center the student in our work, we always have to lead from a culture of care. But when you're in these roles, I would say assistant director and above, you really have to pay attention to the business and organizational aspect of what we're doing. And so that math and science background for me allows me to really think a little bit more critically and analytically, about the work and how we organize our work, how we organize our resources, both financial and human. Mhmm. And then even in this assessment conversation, this data conversation, this evidence based conversation, being able to look at data and understand data and translate data for those who are maybe not data experts, and that's okay, but how to make meaning of that. And I think that that math and science background has prepared me for that. The other thing I will say prepared me for is when I was at at A and M, I worked in the vice president's office for fifteen years at A and M. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:07:54]: And I had, one of my vice presidents, I had five while I was there. One of my vice presidents was a three star Marine Corps General. And what I learned in my undergrad that helped me with that was how to write things in bullet points. So I didn't write more than a five page paper until I got to my grad program, so because everything in my science background was really about brief bullet points. What data points are you paying attention to right now? Oh goodness. There's a lot. I mean, obviously, on the student success end of it, we are looking at all of our college completion matrix around persistence and retention and graduation, and then distilling that down into what are those things that are preventing this. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:40]: Mhmm. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:08:41]: And then, you know, how can we circle around those support services to meet those? So that's really on the on the student success end, and I can go a little bit deeper into that. The other pieces on, again, and Betty, who is here, talked about it, our investment in staff and development in staff and the metrics associated with, helping our staff thrive, whether that, be performance metrics and even just meeting expectations, but then also what are those things that are barriers to their work and how can we help them be successful in what they do? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:17]: You've come up in student affairs mostly through orientation Mhmm. Past president of NODA Mhmm. As well. So different association work. But I'm wondering how your vision and view of professional development of staff has shifted from your days focused on new student orientation now through overseeing an entire division of student affairs. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:09:35]: Gosh, it has been. It has been an evolution and from being a staff member focused on students, focused on it, on the orientation of students. But I will say, I think there's similar things to learn. There's they're very parallel in that, you know, we invest a lot in the onboarding of students. Starting from the very beginning when we make that contact all the way through maybe that first year, that second year, and and on, that's the same with staff. Right? As soon as we hire that staff member, how are we communicate? And I actually think it goes beyond it be before that and my enrollment management colleagues will agree with this with students, but even when that staff member is applying to be on your staff, that employees that individuals who are applying to be on your staff. How are you treating them along the search process? How are communicating with with them? How are you valuing their time in that process as well? How are you honoring that? And then how do we onboard? Mhmm. How are we onboarding staff into our communities and helping them understand what are the expectations of the new work culture they're in? How do they meet those expectations? How do we understand the lived experiences of the the staff coming in and how do we, as supervisors, honor that as well. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:10:51]: So it's all those things that we do with students that we should just be doing with humans as they're transitioning onto our communities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:58]: I think that's the gift of coming up through orientation is that's the natural way your brain already works is how do we successfully onboard someone into the community and then that showing up for your staff Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:11:07]: as well. 100%. We talk a lot about in in the OTR world about building institutional commitment. Some might call that finding a sense of place, finding a sense of belonging, and because we know that that's important for the retention of whether it's students or staff. If they don't find that, it's too easy to pack up and go home or go elsewhere. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:26]: What do you most want your staff members to understand when they first set foot in the community? Mhmm. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:11:31]: I think first, the purpose of our work, and we talk a lot about the why. Why are we doing this? Why are we here? So understanding that piece is is critical. I think the other piece for me in in my organization at the type of institution we work at and I think that's important, I think, for people to know too as you're onboarding, recognizing what the institution, why you're gonna work, where you have chosen to work, but understanding what it means. And and for us and for all of higher education, we're in the business of helping students realize their academic goal. We get to do a lot lot more with them, and we also understand that there's a lot more barriers that prevent people from actually reaching that, and and we, fill a lot of those spaces. But that's the ultimate goal, and so how are we able to do that? So when new staff come in, I have, AVP dean of students, Valerie Holmes, who who who talks a lot about we're in the business of breaking down barriers and creating opportunities. So at the very simplest level on our staff, that's what we're trying to do. And it might look different depending in what functional area you're working in, but we're trying to get there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:40]: You've had a, fairly traditional career path in terms of kind of moving from that first entry level all the way through to director level, AVP, etcetera, etcetera, and now to the VP seat. There's a lot of programs I'm seeing at NASPA this year about how do I make that jump? How do I make that jump from assistant director to director? How do I make that jump from director to assistant associate dean? How do I make that jump from dean AVP to VP? Mhmm. Can you talk to us about your process in figuring out how to prepare yourself for that next thing? Sure. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:13:10]: I will. And and I've had a little bit of a traditional path, but I it I actually skipped the whole director phase, which created a whole bunch of different things that I had to be really intentional about learning because I didn't have the direct experience in doing that. When I think about putting yourself in the position to make those moves, I think that our natural nature of being learners in this field helps. And I always think about what do I wanna do next and what do I need to learn to get there. And so I think part of it is really investing in that self knowledge, that learning, understanding what it is and and where you wanna go. But I think that the other piece for me has been taking advantage of the opportunities that are available. And it's not that all of the opportunities I took advantage of someone said, Cynthia, you should do this. It was scanning the horizon that I was in and saying, I want more experience in doing that. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:14:10]: Maybe I need to go and ask to see if how can I be a part of that? And, that was a big that was a big piece for me was being able to do that. And that's what I did. I didn't know I wanted to leave the orientation world. I had done it for twelve years. I loved it. I thought I would just continue in first year programs, And then an assistant to the dean of students came available, working with Dave Parrot. And I applied for that, and and I went in and I started working for him. He was housed in the vice president's office. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:14:43]: And about six months in, I had an an, vice president, Dean Bershani, who later went on to be president at North Dakota State. And he said, I want you to come be special assistant to the vice president. And so I made that move right there. And that's why I say I skipped the whole director position. And I think it was the first time I real and we talk about linear pathways, but not really. Mhmm. For me, as a younger or a mid level professional, I think it was the first time I realized that I could move up into an AVP position without having to be the dean of students. And because if you think about Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:19]: it, this was this was quite Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:15:20]: a while ago, and there were not as many AVP roles. And even the AVP grouping was not as prominent even in NASPA. Right? So you heard about VPSAs, you heard about Dean of Students, but you didn't know about these things. So I think that was an interesting thing for me and it was really about taking advantage of the opportunities available. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:43]: Let's talk a little bit about managing up. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:15:45]: Okay. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:45]: So you've been in many positions where you were managing up to your supervisor. Now you are that person who is being managed up to. Mhmm. What advice do you have for specifically directors managing that possibly to their ABPs and VPs and how to get that information to the vice president level? And also for first year professionals who might have input that is very, very valuable or they see a different perspective on a problem set that could be solved differently. And we know that their first stop is gonna be their direct teams, but also how do they get that information to Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:16:17]: a VP? Sure. Sure. It's a great question. And it does take time to learn to manage up. I think the the first thing I would say is do a lot of listening. Do a lot of listening and observing to understand how your supervisor wants information and and needs information and what what's the type of information that they're looking and everybody's managing that. Everybody has a supervisor, whether it's me to the president, the president to the chancellor, the chancellor to the board. And so we're always trying to figure out what's the information they need, how quickly do they need it, what form do they need it in. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:16:59]: And a lot of that is just listening and understanding, trying to anticipate what are those things that are gonna be on the radar. And that's a big piece of it. Some of it is giving your staff a heads up. For my directors, being able for them to understand what does the vice president need to know, what do I need to tell my AVP so that we can get that information there so we're not caught off guard on things. The other piece I'm managing up, because that's one thing, the crisis pieces, the pieces that are might make the headlines. But the other piece is about what data is important for my vice president to know in the conversation she's in. And EAB, a long time ago, had and there were several student affairs folks who helped on this piece. They had a piece called Leveraging Data to Demonstrate Impact. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:17:51]: Mhmm. And it was the first time I had really seen what they had done is EAB had interviewed presidents and provost across the country to really ask them about what data did they need from their student senior student affairs officers, and then they distilled that by each functional area. So that was a great way to kind of learn not just the heads up crisis moments, but here's some things that I need you to think about in the conversations that you're in. When I think about new professionals and first year students and lending voices, I always say first and because I have always worked at large institutions and you talk about that inverted funnel and there's some hierarchy there and there's some hierarchy there for a reason. Mhmm. And so I always talk to first year student or first year professionals or new professionals about really using learning how to use that hierarchy and how to communicate things. But then I also talk about take advantage of the opportunities that you do have to have those moments with those leaders, whether it's your own director or directors across the division, AVPs, VP. And you do that usually through volunteering in some other spaces. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:19:07]: And I know a lot of people, maybe shy away from spending even more time volunteering in spaces outside their own functional area, but I cannot tell you how much it helps with networking and relationship building in your career. Just being able to be in spaces when you are helping people move in during move in or helping set up commencement, all those things. You get to have some conversations in spaces that maybe you wouldn't have access to individuals otherwise. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:38]: I was once at an institution that did an internal internship program where five hours a week you could be reassigned to a different department just to learn that functional area, especially great for professionals who are thinking about moving up, in that ladder or also just changing functional areas. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:19:53]: Yes. Yeah. We I mean, and you know this, and I don't know what the opportunities are now, but serving on conduct panels, right, serving as investigators, serving on your crisis response team, but then also helping with more, maybe, joy filled engagement type activities as well. There's always opportunities to to do some of that. And to your point, whether it's a structured program, which is fabulous, by the way, or an impromptu, I wanna get more knowledge on this. I remember my, when I was in my AVP role, I didn't have a whole lot of, construction under my belt, building facilities and renovating facilities. And so I went to the vice president and asked, I said, we've got this construction project coming on. Can I be on on that team that's working with with the architect and the contractors? And, he said, as long as you can get your other stuff done, we'll let you carve out some time to do that. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:20:50]: But unless I had asked that, no one was sitting there saying, somebody should tell Cynthia so see if Cynthia can be on this team. So Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:56]: One of the things you included in your bio is a personal statement. And, the personal statement is I believe in selfless service, the duty to do good, and the responsibility that comes with influence honoring the impact we have on others and the world. How did we arrive here? Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:21:12]: You know, I think sometimes it's easy to get caught up in everything that's going on and so much like our institutions or our own divisions, having our own mission statement, value statement that grounds us reminds us and gives us that lens to make decisions, to honor the staff and the students and just the humans in this life. What a blessing it is to be able to do what we do, where we do it. And sometimes it's hard to see that, in that. And so the statement for me has always grounded me in that. It's it's really a convergence of a lot of my lived experiences, my backgrounds, my identities that really leads to this place of selfless service and and that we're here to serve. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:58]: You're in Texas right now and, I had the conversation just yesterday with President Richard Walker. He was at University of Houston Clear Lake. And one of the conversations that he and I had was about how do we continue to support our students, faculty and staff knowing that legislation might be deeply impacting the way that we've done our jobs in the past, but also knowing that the students that are supported by student affairs and and the rest of the university, we're still here. Yeah. Right? Legislation isn't gonna change our identities and it's not gonna change the support that we need from the university. So how are you navigating that in the BPSA seat knowing that the way that you do the work has to be different? Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:22:35]: It's a great question. I will say first, I got named to the title nine deputy right after the February, president Obama's dear colleague letter. Twenty eleven ECL. Twenty '11 ECL. Right? Mhmm. And I really think that being in that role during that time for the next eight years where one, I learned how to pause and take a breath as things were just plain out. And and I remember then and this is applicable now. We still have students who are going through these situations Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:14]: Mhmm. And Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:23:14]: we still have students to serve and I still have a responsibility to my institution. So trying to trying to figure out to not let the noise overwhelm me was was a skill that I learned then has come in very useful now. And so, you know, we have had state legislation around some of these issues for about eighteen months now. And so we've been navigating that, and seeing the impact of that, and then learning to still help our students feel supported and valued and our staff feel supported and and valued at our campuses. We have to do that. We know that we need to do that. Honoring the lived experiences they bring, still being identity informed, not being identity exclusive, which is prohibited. And so being able to invest and being able to invest in in students and staff to be able to thrive on our campuses, Ultimately, that's my job, and we have to keep going because I have 40,000 students Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:18]: Mhmm. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:24:19]: Who are looking to us to be able to create these experiences for them and help them reach your academic goals. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:25]: We're seeing these pieces of legislation kind of permeate in other states as well. I think Texas and Florida have been kind of on the forefront. Mhmm. So what advice do you have for other student affairs professionals who are seeing this happen in their states and are going, I'm not sure how to navigate it? Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:24:39]: Mhmm. I think, you know, part of that is leaning in on your team and I know people think that it's the vice president for student affairs alone, I'm the vice president for student success, but, you know, leaning in, working with your cabinet, helping understand, going back to the mission of your institution, you know, working with your general counsel, having all of those conversations. And I'm thinking from the VP level right now on what this means and what's the impact. The other piece of it around it is how do we lean even more into student success and student support in the midst of this? And that was one of the things I really appreciated about, my president, my current president, in that how do we then look at what else do we need to do to enhance the student experience and how can we do that, within the legislation that we have and, that recommitment to student success and, students persistence and and graduation really helped us keep a focus on why we're doing what we're doing. And and so I would encourage staff to do that as well. It's a little bit different when you're, you know, working on the front end with students, working at that mid level supporting staff who also are being impacted or feeling impacted. And part of that is remaining calm, understanding that we still have a job to do. And, we just kinda we keep taking we take it day by day, and, still celebrate the joys that we have, and there are many. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:26:19]: And I think Betty talked about that too. Getting out in the spaces to see that your students are thriving in their college work. They're enjoying their college life and I know every institution is different. I work in a highly residential institution and my students are loving it and they're loving their four years. And so, yeah, reminding of the joy. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:43]: Let's transition and talk about NASPA for a minute. You've been the director of the AVP steering committee and a faculty member for the AVP Institute. This institute is pretty young in terms of NASPA initiatives. I think actually do we meet for the first time at AVP Institute? Maybe so. That seems that seems right, but I I can't remember at this point. But can you talk to us about what's important right now for NASPA and the AVP world and also for aspiring AVPs, what they might be looking at right now for their professional development? Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:27:12]: Yeah. So it was interesting. I would say I you talked about being a NODA, and I was a NODA for a good portion of my career and did or pulled back on my involvement after I finished the presidency. And it was actually through the AVP space that I got reconnected to NASPA. And they were just starting out. I went to, I think, the first AVP Institute and Penny Ryu was the director. Lori White was on there. Jason Pena was on there. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:27:42]: Some others, individuals named Hecht and others. And I got connected in that space and I talk about I loved being an AVP and I was an AVP probably I was an assistant vice president for about five years and associate vice president for, three to four years. So I was in the AVP space for seven years, which you don't see a lot of. Usually, you see people stay in that space for about maybe three years, five years, then move on into maybe VP roles. I never knew I wanted to be a VP. So that was a great connection for me, and I encourage any AVPs to to do that. I got to, as part of that experience, work on the aspiring AVP pre conference for a number of years as well. And it's really neat to see some of the people that were in those rooms in these AVP positions now. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:28:36]: And I think for me, it's funny because I don't feel like when I was coming up you heard a lot about the AVP position. Like I said, I really thought it was just Dean of Students and then you're the vice president. Right? But now there are all of these spaces and I love the AVSP space because you get to be really strategic and make connections. And growing up in orientation, I spent a lot of time making connections and I had a lot of collaboration with colleagues across campus in different divisions and departments, and I think you get to do that in the AVP space. And you're less in the day to day management of a department, so you really do get to be a little bit more strategic in that. But for those aspiring AVPs, look and see what the job is like. There's a lot more literature out there. The AVP book, in fact, anytime I get a new AVP, I give them the AVP book and we talk through through it. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:29:34]: But then also going to session so you can really understand what the work is and then also understand maybe what type of AVP position you want because they are becoming in some spaces, they're becoming more specialized. An AVP for health and well-being, AVP for student engagement, AVP auxiliaries business. And so, I think understanding that sometimes at some institutions there's those nuances or if you just want to be the really number two to the VP in in some small spaces and wear 7,000,000 different hats, there's opportunities for that too. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:12]: Think we're seeing head of staff positions come out more as well in that AVP hat space and they get to do everything which is really fun. Yes. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:30:20]: Yes. Yes. In fact, I just created a a chief associate vice president, chief of staff position and I didn't realize how much I needed it until I had it. Definitely. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:29]: Well, Cynthia, our theme for this season is the past, present, and future of student affairs. Mhmm. And so I have one question on each of those areas for you. The first is on the past. What's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively, it's time to let Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:30:45]: go of? I talked about Learning Reconsidered and every time I try to reread that one, and even Learning reconsidered to you, there's so much good information in there. But the the pieces that always stuck with me is one that we are one learning environment and that in order to be one learning environment at your institution, you have to have good collaborations with colleagues across. And where I find sometimes where we might trip up in the profession a little bit is we start to believe that we are the institution or we are the learning experience and and disregarding the extraordinary work, that people are doing across the university, our colleagues, in the provost's office, and valuing what each of them which each of us do. I think sometimes and I don't like the narrative of their student affairs and academic affairs. I kinda I I don't wanna receive that there's a attention, even though there probably is at points, but I'm just trying to figure out how are we working together. How are we translating information? How are we learning language so that we're speaking the same language about what we're doing? How are we collaborating and not competing. Just because you brought Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:08]: it up, I always have to plug this because our producer and audio engineer, doctor Chris Lewis, is the chair of the SAP and Knowledge Community, student affairs partnering with academic affairs. Mhmm. So, anyway, quick plug for that. Question on the present. What's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Yeah. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:32:23]: I think right now it's it's interesting. And and about two years ago, my title changed from vice president to student affairs to vice president for student success. Continuing to look at the data, mine the data, and put it in the forefront of what we needed to do. So we had to keep the conversation going on student success. And we've had these student success units forever, and they've lived sometimes under the provost's office, and we've partnered very well with them. It's been really exciting to me to see even greater convergence of these two areas. They shouldn't be separate. They need to be together. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:33:08]: What I get to do now in my work is I have all the traditional student affairs units as well as the student success units. And then now I also have some of the student services units, which are more some of the third party auxiliaries that support the student experience. But I think I'm seeing more of that now. I'm seeing less separation. Some of that's due to resources. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:28]: Mhmm. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:33:28]: We realize that we are competing and spending too much on on things, and so how do we converge them? So I'm excited about that trend a little bit. And, again, refocusing, not that we're not focused on it, but refocusing the profession on those college completion metrics and how we contribute to them. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:46]: I've always talked to my teams about the fact that students do not care how we're organized. They do not care who reports to who. They do not care if it's in academic affairs, student affairs, auxiliary functions, whatever. They just know that their experience needs to be whole. Yes. So that theme that you're talking about, I think, is a reflection of that. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:34:03]: Yes. 100%. They just see one university. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:06]: Mhmm. Right. And they shouldn't have to care about that either. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:34:08]: They should not. They should not. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:11]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards our future? Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:34:17]: Yeah. I I talked about this a little bit earlier. I think after post pandemic saw a a shift in who was coming into the profession, how many people were coming into the profession, where we're drawing individuals for. I think in order for us to serve students well, we have to have healthy staffs. And so for me, the the future of the profession is recommitting to supervising and developing our staff at at high levels. I I just think that's imperative. I've seen too many people leave, because of the supervisor. Right? We think about Gallup's, it's the manager text out there. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:34:57]: And I think part of it's on us because we actually don't do a good job of investing and and and helping our own supervisors, grow and develop to be able to supervise staff. You know, we're busy ordering the t shirts for the next event or filing the paperwork or doing case notes that we just sometimes don't take that time to develop ourselves in that area. So I I think we need to do that. In my job as vice president, I have to make sure that my staff have the resources they need, both human and financial. And if we're spending all our time trying to fill vacancies, it's the last time we get to focus on students. So how do we continue to create healthy organizations? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:40]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:46]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The twenty twenty five NASPA mid level administrators conference is happening June in Salt Lake in Salt Lake City, Utah. The twenty twenty five NASPA mid level administrators conference is a dynamic professional development event designed to provide mid level student affairs professionals with the opportunity to engage and learn with colleagues and senior student affairs administrators. During this two and a half day conference, participants will gain insights about promising practices to further develop professional competencies, networking, and supervisory skills, strategies to improve professional practice, and networks to advance and networks to advance your career. The mid level administrators conference is designed for student affairs professionals who serve in roles between and not including entry level positions and AVP and the equivalent roles. Additionally, professionals who have been serving in entry level roles with at least five years experience are welcome to attend. As a result of this experience, participants will be able to build and strengthen strategies for organizational leadership to include leading change, navigating institutional politics, managing resources, and supervising team members. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:06]: Develop the skills to manage from the middle, both internally and to include staff and supervisors, and externally to include stakeholders and cross campus constituents. Maximize your role to gain a deeper understanding of influence, power, and resources while advancing your professional growth and build a go to network of mid level colleagues. I hope you can join us for a conference packed with featured speakers, concurrent sessions around three key student affairs certification learning domains, small group reflection opportunities, and one on one coaching meetings. The early registration deadline will end on April 21 with the regular registration deadline ending on May 19. You can find out more on the NASPA website. There's a brand new brief that has been recently provided to NASPA members called five things student affairs practitioners should know about student well-being by Bridget Juhas at Butler University. This brief offers critical insights for student affairs professionals regarding holistic student well-being in higher education. With a focus on collaborative campus wide approaches to well-being initiatives, it emphasizes the importance of going beyond traditional mental and physical health support. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:20]: The publication offers actionable strategies for building cross campus partnerships, aligning efforts with institutional goals, and using data driven insights to enhance student outcomes. Examples of successful institutional practices are included. By engaging all campus units, institutions can create a cohesive and supportive environment that helps students thrive. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:41]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:09]: Chris, once again, thank you so much for giving us a great NASPA world and letting us know what's going on in and around NASPA. So, Cynthia, we have reached our lightning round. I have seven questions for you in about ninety seconds. Are you ready to roll? Here we go. Alright. Question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:40:26]: Think Hold On by Wilson Phillips. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:28]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:40:31]: I think I mentioned earlier, I grew up in Houston, so astronaut was probably my big dream. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:36]: And the astronauts are coming home now. Hey, they are. The station. Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dave Perron. Number four, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:40:46]: You know, this is interesting. It might be a Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:47]: little Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:40:47]: controversial. Administratively Adrift by Scott Bass. He was actually the provost at American University and I'm not gonna say I liked everything that was said in that book. There's some good nuggets for us to learn from though and it helps us understand maybe some perceptions of student services in the field. Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately? Silo. I'm a sci fi nerd. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:09]: Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year? Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:41:12]: You know, I listen to a podcast called The Next Right Thing and it's by Emily P Freeman and spiritually based, faith based, but it's about we're so overwhelmed with decision fatigue. How do we just make that that next right thing, that next right decision? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:29]: And finally, number seven. Any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:41:32]: I think for me, I'm gonna give a big shout out to my mom, Martha Hernandez. She was an administrator in the Aldine School District, first gen college student, went to community college, and graduated from Texas Women's University administrator in the Aldine School District for thirty eight years, and I think it's where I I developed my love for administration. I was blessed to grow up. She was a school she was a teacher, and every summer, we had a different project we worked on. And one summer, I think about this, and we we developed a library in our garage for the neighborhood. People came and checked out books and I got to stamp them and I got to find people. I mean, if they didn't bring them back on time, but those kinds of experiences I'm very blessed because of what they taught me, and she is just she is my pillar. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:16]: Cynthia, we really appreciate you taking time out of your very busy NASA schedule to spend some time with us here on SA Voices. If anyone would like to connect with you after this episode airs, how can they Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:42:25]: find you? Well, LinkedIn, definitely. I'm on the Facebook. The Facebook. As my as my mom says, Instagram. But reaching out in the as per directory or or just Google me, I'm happy to to chat with anyone. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:39]: Well, once again, congratulations on your award. Looking forward to celebrating you as well this afternoon, and thank you so much for sharing your voice with us. Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:42:45]: Thank you, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:51]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:30]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

4/10/25 • 43:49

Unlocking the Potential of Community Colleges: Insights from Dr. Bette Simmons In a captivating episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Bette Simmons, an esteemed leader in higher education, to delve into the transformative role of community colleges in today's academic landscape. Dr. Simmons, a celebrated figure in student affairs, shares her journey and insightful perspectives that challenge traditional views of community colleges and highlight their evolving importance in serving diverse student populations. A Career Dedicated to Student Success Dr. Simmons has devoted over four decades to enhancing student engagement, success, and leadership development, primarily within community colleges. Her career began serendipitously when a convincing interview led to an unexpected but remarkable path in student affairs at County College of Morris. Her story is a testament to the impact of passion-driven work and the profound influence mentors and community connections can have on one's professional trajectory. Reimagining Community Colleges The conversation challenges the outdated perception that community colleges are a "second choice" for students. Instead, Dr. Simmons emphasizes their vital role in providing accessible education and addressing the needs of underrepresented students and adult learners. She discusses the significant strides community colleges have made in workforce development and dual enrollment programs, illustrating their commitment to meeting industry needs and offering students a robust, supportive educational environment. Tackling Student Challenges Dr. Simmons also candidly addresses the growing challenges faced by today's students, including basic needs insecurity and mental health issues. She shares anecdotes of students who have triumphed over adversity, thanks to the supportive networks provided by community colleges. Her stories underscore the importance of holistic student support systems, which are increasingly necessary to navigate the multifaceted challenges students face in higher education today. A Legacy of Mentorship and Leadership As a pioneer in the development of NASPA's knowledge communities, Dr. Simmons's contributions have shaped the broader landscape of student affairs. Her advice to new professionals is straightforward: seek connections, remain curious, and never underestimate the value of persistence and resilience in building a fulfilling career. Why Listen? This episode is a treasure trove for anyone interested in understanding the evolving role of community colleges and the future of higher education. Dr. Simmons's experiences and insights not only celebrate the successes of these institutions but also advocate for their continued innovation and inclusivity. Listening to her story could ignite a deeper appreciation for community colleges and inspire educators and administrators to rethink how they can best support their students. Tune into this enriching dialogue to explore how community colleges are not just places of learning but hubs of opportunity and transformation. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, sheherhers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back, SA Voices. Chris and I have just gotten back to our respective homes after spending some amazing time with you in New Orleans for the annual conference. Like many years before, we were able to capture some live recordings of the podcast while we were there, and in particular this year, a few episodes live in front of some of you. So thank you so much if you were able to make space in your annual conference schedule to come see us. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:52]: The first episode we're going to bring you is with doctor Betty Simmons who won this year's Fred Turner award for outstanding service. Now this recording was captured live, so the audio quality may not be up to our usual standards, but I promise you that the recording and the conversation itself is incredibly rich. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Dr. Simmons. Betty is a distinguished leader in higher education and student affairs, recognized nationally as a NASPA foundation pillar of the profession, and regionally with several distinguished community college leadership awards. Betty has dedicated her career to advancing care, engagement, student success, and leadership development predominantly in community colleges. She retired from County College of Morris in 2022 where she spent forty two years advancing in various student affairs positions, ending as the VPSA overseeing initiatives focused on enhancing student development, student engagement, wellness, and retention. She's known for her collaborative leadership and commitment to fostering supportive and inclusive environments among students, student affairs professionals, faculty, and academic administrators. Throughout her career, she's implemented impactful programs that address critical student needs, including academic support centers, wellness centers, and basic needs resources. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:57]: Her expertise spans various areas of enrollment student services, student support services, and student engagement, all in the community college environment. As a respected mentor, Betty has guided countless student affairs professionals identifying and implementing effective and efficient roles and organizational structures, advocating for innovative approaches to developing strong student affairs professionals. Betty holds a doctorate in higher ed from Seton Hall University. She frequently serves as a community college and student affairs consultant on topics ranging from student affairs assessment, leadership development, and organizational management, as well as an accreditation evaluator. Betty resides in New Jersey with her partner. Now in retirement, she's found more time for volunteering in her community, traveling, especially cruising, and spending time with her family. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:39]: Betty, welcome to SA Voice News. How are you?  Dr. Bette Simmons I'm great. Dr. Jill Creighton How's your conference? Dr. Bette Simmons Exhausting. Yes. Still have a day and a half to go. It's just wonderful now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:49]: Yes. For our listeners, it is day two of NASA's annual conference. We're here at 08:30 in the morning, so the first session of the day. We see that many of our colleagues, may not have been able to to make it to the sessions this morning, because it was such an eventful evening last night. Last night was also Saint Patrick's Day. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:04]: Yeah. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:06]: Here in New Orleans. And I don't about you, but I accidentally became part of the parade. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:12]: I watched it from a distance Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:13]: Yeah. I was walking back from dinner, and I came right in front of our hotel, and I was, oh, I'm in this. I had to cross the street. Okay. But we're live taking today at the conference and celebrating your new award With NASPA. But congratulations Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:26]: Thank you so very much. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:28]: Awards are here this afternoon. Excited to celebrate you. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:32]: Thank you. Among many of our fellow award winners here. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:34]: So I'm a little. Okay. Very excited. Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:37]: But as we talk about your story today, the first question we always like to ask is, how did you get to your current seat? Now we know that you are in in retirement alone. You've had a forty two year career in student affairs, and so we'd love to hear that journey. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:49]: Sure. I'll make a quick story because it could be a mom's story, but to finish my undergraduate education, I had a branch of teaching assistantship to go to Harrison State University. And over the summer, I had a conversation with my father who was a high school guy in sweater. And it was tenfold because I wasn't a % sure that that's what I wanted to do. My undergraduate degree is in foreign language, Spanish and French. And I knew that I didn't wanna teach and I didn't wanna work for the government. But I didn't know what I'm allowed to do. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:04:24]: So talking with my gal, it's a question of, well, what do you wanna do? And I didn't have an answer to that. So by the end of the summer, we made a decision, my dad and I, with his help, that I'm most important girl in this country and pursue something that I wasn't passionate about. Passion is really and has all this been important to me. So I stayed in my community. I worked for a key organization for a short style. And then Mark Feller, who was an adviser board at Campbell College of Morris in New Jersey, he said, no. There's this job for delaying for educational opportunity fund. Why don't you go for that job? I'm not qualified. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:05:00]: Now you just go for it anyway. Get the experience of an interview and see where it takes you. This was in 1979. Affirmative action was all the rage. My community is a very diverse community at the time, but County College of Morris was not diverse. And so I did apply for the job. I'm interested for the job, had the best review in my entire life because in my mind, I was going to get the job. It was very relaxed. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:05:26]: I barely should work myself in practice mode. And in practice mode. Yeah. I did not get the job. But Community College of Parks was so impressed with me that they said he'd like to hire you anyway, and they created this job for me as he sits into the dean or student development. And I jumped at it because I had a wonderful experience as an undergraduate in Hunda residence halls. I was an RD, and I just endured working with students. And so that's how I dealt my career. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:05:56]: But I'm telling you, I told the vice president trajectory? Where do you see yourself going? And remember, County College of Horace is a community college. I said to him, I would like to have your job someday, but but at a real college. I will always remember those words. And for anybody who is a community college person, it's painful to hear that, to be called, you're not a real politician. The good news is I ended up with a huge job after forty two years. I remember this always at a real college and learned to appreciate the value and the work and the impact that community colleges do every single day. I am so grateful for that experience that CCI gave me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:43]: We were talking before we started taping today that you were part of the community college ethic assist squad in full Dr. Bette Simmons [00:06:48]: of school? Absolutely. A %. Yeah. Can you talk to us a little bit about Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:52]: what community colleges meant to the communities in the areas that you became your career and that's contrasted to how would the community colleges now? Dr. Bette Simmons [00:07:01]: That's a great question. Now back in the eighties, at least in Morris County, let me give you a little bit of history of Morris County. It is a wealthy county. It's one of the wealthiest counties in the country and the sense among the community is that you don't go to County College Morris Avenue Branch Pick High School. You weeds. You go somewhere else. You go to to send you somewhere else. It's only those people who, it's probably not going to be their career goal to go to college, just go to Camden. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:07:33]: Or if you were looking to just get a couple of credits and dig yourself, go to Camden. It wasn't well respected and I think that that's historical community colleges in our history that we are second class, third class, and fourth class citizens and not the places for students to go. And also the student experience, you just go to the class and then you leave. There is no campus life. There is no student engagement. There is no leadership development. That's not true. And that was one of the things that was really important to me when I began my career at Cameron College of Mars is to embrace that we can be a real college even greater than we already are. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:08:13]: And we look at how many people are now enrolling in community colleges across the country and how well respected we are and the opportunities for people who may be underrepresented or may not be ready for the traditional college experience right out of the gate or for that adult in mutual who is really looking to retrain, tool, and get something new or get more, you have a pump in place, Lori, and we have better respect for community colleges today than we did forty years ago. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:44]: We're seeing community colleges being first choice. I suppose. Absolutely. I see community colleges doing a much better job Dr. Bette Simmons [00:08:50]: at meeting industry Yes. With ACT. The workforce development conversation started in community colleges because you were really focused on what is the community and so as it's it's really interesting to watch the trajectory of community colleges and how people are now making that economic decision that I can still get to University of Maryland, where Cornell, we work with David transfer students, like, going through the community college, really strong integration. And then hear from the students to come back and say, you know, I was better prepared because of my time at CCM than I if I were a freshman starting at four years SOLID. It's it's just a, a wonderful, wonderful option. We also started both in Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:32]: the Middle East conversation, Virgin Olive Community Colleges rather than the four year where our doctoral degree in directing institution FC. Can you talk to us about what that conversation was like when you were first having it? Dr. Bette Simmons [00:09:43]: You know, it was like, what? Why would that be? It's it's all about the preparation and the contribution of of all of your education, but also the complete development and experience that the community colleges can give both inside the classroom as well as outside the classroom. And I was forever arguing my students about the learning that occurs outside the classroom that will set the student up for the rest of their life. The fact that they will remember in more cases than not something that happened outside the classroom than what they learned inside the classroom. They will connect with a counselor and I have a counselor or adviser who is here in the audience with me today. They will remember their experience with that person more than they will in some cases with some of your faculty as they move through that educational layer and then the contributions that they have during the whole way. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:34]: What else was born in the community colleges throughout your career that maybe you're seeing other institutions like sacred for now? Dr. Bette Simmons [00:10:41]: Sure. Dual enrollment is gonna be you know, I made a decision to stay in higher ed because I didn't wanna work in, the primary and secondary, educational environment. Well, they're on campus now, and they're there in large numbers. And post COVID, a lot of colleges are really relying on dual enrollment. Those high school students who are high achieving or looking to really strengthen their academic experience sooner rather than later. And to see more students graduating college even before they get their high school diploma, that was really born in 18 colleges. And to see four year colleges now in that space, in some cases, at least in New Jersey, taking credit for it on your cutting edge, when your tuition rate. It's amusing. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:11:28]: It's amusing. Sing with adult learners. She needed a college. We're building space when you count view of the time, adult learners will flock to the community colleges because I needed to improve in order to get up in the work. You see now more of our four year counterparts, our baccalaureate counterparts engage in the adult learner more because they understand that that's where the population is gonna come from. It's not always just in one compartment. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:53]: We also see in the community college system as time has gone on, again, with that first choice implement, we're seeing that transfer articulation agreement change over time. What was that like with that started? Dr. Bette Simmons [00:12:04]: First of all, you know? So in New Jersey, before we had legislation that said you must, it was a bit of a struggle. We have some institutions that we your students could get to when they went down the end of the loss as credit. There would not be any question about the value of the education that students experience when they came to college. A favorite story that that I had was a student was taking a course to attend our school. It was taught by a faculty member who was a faculty member at a four year institution, exact same curriculum, exact same textbook. Everything was the same. It was just being taught in your campus. When the student went to transfer the course, he wasn't gonna transfer. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:12:42]: And so we had to go to the four year school when the argument is being taught by your instructor. This This is the same curriculum as what your instructor will be teaching. We really had to fight tooth and nail to get our credits recognized. Over time and through the health legislation in some cases, there was an appreciation or the value of what's happening in classroom, community college the home experiences, that there's less equity in what was being taught in the curriculum, and there's a smoother path for transfer. There's still some challenges, and that happens a lot when students change their minds. After I graduated my community college, am I gonna go something that's different? Well, I'm not necessarily gonna guarantee that complete transfer, but we work at, and we had those conversations for the four years falls. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:26]: How have you seen the student needs change over the course of the time you've been at the community college system? Especially community colleges. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:13:34]: You inspect if people are struggling. That's one of the reasons why they come. It's the economics of it. We're less expensive. We'll close our own. We don't have to worry about room and board. And it didn't have the problems with the basic needs that we have today. In the nineteen eighties, sure, were there problems? Absolutely. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:13:51]: But to the the impact that we're seeing today, with so many students who are couch surfing or sleeping in their cars or not sure where they're going to be to take a shower the next day. They're not able to be top to side what to do with your children because they can't afford childcare, and they've gotta be able to do something. That wasn't to the extent that it is today. And the ability that the community college has is particular to help students identify and rarely get resources, but also provide more additional scholarship numbers for them. I do not have conversations with students who would say to me, you mean I could come and not pay a dime because of scholarships that you are giving in addition to what the 500 state couple minutes again? Absolutely. If your need is that high, we can do that. And then that will save you some money along the way so you will continue to transfer onto that four years full and get there. It's so much freer than ever. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:14:50]: And it's you see that's the shift in how the credit students are taking because they can only afford this much. And so that, you know, extends the trajectory to get them to serious needs, debris, or whatever, denture they're going for. It's so heart wrench to see the struggles that students are experiencing today, the mental health issues that students are experiencing, the students who are learning disabilities and learn differently. It wasn't human magnitude that it is to gain. We didn't see it as much back in these. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:17]: I know you mentored literally thousands, if not tens of or hundreds of thousands of students per Dr. Bette Simmons [00:15:22]: your career. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:22]: Do you have a favorite student success story? Dr. Bette Simmons [00:15:25]: Oh my goodness. I have so many. I have so many. But there was a student at County College of Morris, and Maureen Moody, or I might remember Ross, she was a student with a disability, an older student. She was already there when I came to County College of New York, seeing it, and she was wreaking havoc with the vice president of student development at the time. She didn't take one the rest of the time. So she was probably our longest enrolled student. She was angry on occasions, and she was a delight to work with on other occasions. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:15:56]: But she challenged us. She actually helped push the college to really recognize what the needs of students with disabilities were and how to respond to those. And, again, this was happening in the first of the eighties and the nineties. The ADA was not as in-depth as it is now in the support services around students with disabilities. She lived in housing and transportation was a big issue where she could find food was an issue. Making sure that she bought for classes that she wanted, the faculty that she wanted. She was a chairman. She had a lot of anger inside and pain for what she experienced, but she still marched on. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:16:34]: She dealt with a realistic medical issues during her tenure. I think it took Roscoe's to seventeen, eighteen years to get her associate's degree. When we walked that young woman in my opinion across the stage, it was heart wrenching, tear jerking. The whole college community knew Roz and knew what she learned to work. To see her graduate was just a magnificent experience because Ed's munch to her and we look we had to do together with us. That's like I'm a little Mary Faber, whoever I've Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:05]: seen in Ferrisburg, right? Yes. Absolutely. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:17:08]: And she was also engaged in campus life. So it's not just about the classroom, it's about the student activities and what are the events and having many a possible premiere, an individual with multiple disabilities to be a normal student. We have to get creative and she helped teach us along the way. I think those are my favorite moments when Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:27]: you get to see a student across the graduation stage that you know has been engaged with many, many support services. And you also know that you can't celebrate that as loudly as you want to. And so I think, generally, you're just For biggest challenge. Absolutely. Yeah. Now you've had a career at basically the same institution for a great chunk of of your time in the profession, which I mean is pretty rare. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:17:49]: I think Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:49]: that there's anality in student affairs that you need to move out to, I think, partially because we have, you know, the in response to which, you know, there's only one senior senior affairs officer position. Maybe there's two AV key, you are a q four. Many, many more director opportunities, things like that. But being at the same institution, requires a level of patience. Yep. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:18:09]: A trigger for Greerbrook that Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:11]: I think, that we see in the profession now, we we do have a well earned eagerness to grow our careers Yes. Knowing that, you know, there are there are just limitations to, you know, who's gonna move forward. Sydney, you talked about the journey of of choosing to stay at one institution and choosing to grow within it? Sure. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:18:28]: It's a great question too. And you know the interesting thing is I didn't choose to stay. In my mind again because I wanted to get to a real college and in my mind that was a private knowledge, I was only gonna stay for two years. But the college took an estimate in me and after those two years passed and our years was on and I knew from an assistant dean's position to to a counseling position, I felt that, okay, Hudson really set some roots here for sure at times. And after eight years as a counselor, I decided that it was time for me to leave the college. Well, the college didn't want me to leave. And the individual who was one of my professional mentors, doctor Edward J. Yaw, he was Jack with him and Dean at the time, Katie King, college's president. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:19:11]: And he said to me, Benny, you need to lay my office and he and our ambassadors. You need to work on establishing relationships with community and it's about who understands the the thinking of students, what their needs are. You need someone who has a good relationship with people on campus. Would you be willing to do that? It was a leap of faith for him and it was a risky move for me because of choking out of student affairs, which is where my card was, working with students, eyes of the door, looking at students. But I also knew that my director of counseling thought I was too involved in other areas outside of the counseling office. And then I was losing my way. This is what they did to counseling. So I knew that I couldn't stay there. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:19:51]: So I took that heat buffet and of work, as he has sipped into the president for four years. It was one of the smartest professional moves that I made because I was able to get a thorough understanding of the entire operation working out of the president's office. Look working with work trustees, working with the mayor of the community. I was the funded action officer at the time and got to work even more closely with faculty and other individuals. I would not have had that opportunity had I stayed where I was, and it would have taken me a while if I'd left for college to establish that type of work, opportunity to become what they good old to me. So I did not for four years and I enjoyed it. Learning enough of finances, I'm learning enough strategic planning, I'm learning about, you know, facilities management. It was all part of what I was doing in the president's office. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:20:40]: And then we went through a reorganization because hospice containment needed to happen, and it was decided upon position as assistant to the president wasn't necessary. So I started looking again. And during college course, I once again stepped down and said, no. We don't want him to leave. We would like to see him go back from his student affairs area as he said 15. But we were getting rid of the vice president. When we eliminated the vice president's position, there was some penis students, and he wanted me to come back and pay the dean's students. Interesting thing, and when we talked about it actually just this morning, I ended up with math and being responsible there supervising the department that I left. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:21:18]: The counseling office there were just me. So all of my colleagues in the counseling office who were colleagues at the time were down to my staff. And it was a wonderful experience at the end. I'll rake the spout for the work that we do in student affairs. I loved what I did. And that's when I've also became from the University of NASA. And our dean of students like the Turing said, Betty, you've got to go to NASA. You've got to study the way some of the principles that that organization has to build without lived artificial vision, especially after a reorganization where we lost the vice president. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:21:48]: So I did. And one thing after another, he left. I said, okay. I'm gonna leave. And I thought, well, I'm gonna leave. We want you to come in as a dean of students. Every time I called about leaving the college, the college said, don't want me to leave. We have more for you, and we want you to do more for us. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:22:06]: And I lived in the community. I've worked there for so long. You establish roots that you're not willing to live in a follow-up, and I didn't see many to to leave. So every time I called that evening, they're held a separate. The major event that really solid quite a nice time there was I'm a super talented student. The former academic vice president had moved up to Rockley Community College in New York State, as a president. He called me and Betty Lippert College for vice president of Superfairs at Rockland Community College. Oh, him out of that. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:22:37]: Oh, what I'm not gonna get? They're not gonna hire me. They offered me a job. Do I stay where I'm comfortable? Or do I take the rest and do I leave and go someplace and explore? You fly out. The grass will start on the other side of the dance. Pause me now to say to say yes, but then can we fall into the forest? Step up and say, what? You wanna be a vice president? Okay. We're gonna merge your corporation with the enrollment services division, and we want you to be the key to student the adviser for doing the student development enrollment issue. You've got it. They increased my portfolio. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:23:10]: I'm keen on saying, you know, it's a mix. And I love that poster. I love the people that I worked with. I love the work that we did. So even though I didn't necessarily plan to begin, it was hard to leave. And after forty two years, it shows you. I think it shuts in there and us to the same institution. I really can't handle that. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:23:28]: You're probably the luck that we were able to accomplish. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:30]: You mentioned your entree of to NASPA. And one of your, I think, biggest hallmarks for our organization here is, you still identify as the grandmother of the knowledge of new. Yes. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:23:41]: Yeah. Could you talk to us another? Sure. I was attending a NASA conference. Shannon Ellis was the president at the time or the chair of the board now. And Teresa Powell that since passed away was at Temple, and she is becoming the the chair of the board. I said to Theresa, and we are closing, I wanna do something to help you in your your positivity. So they had I said, okay. Sure. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:24:05]: Boom. They wanna hear, you know, that's national director of massive networks. So those were very little social, if we accept NAST. How I said, oh, sure. Okay. I can do that. As we were going through the transition, because you come here as elect and then you become the national director. So while I was in the Atlanta status, I can recall from a student and Theresa, She also had my own education director. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:24:31]: She also had my own education in the college tomorrow, so I knew. I think I can. I'm never a mentor. And they said, we got this really neat idea. We want the networks to grow. We want the networks to become UNESCO's entree into the profession for individuals and to kind of create these affinity groups. And we want them to be acknowledged communities. Are you going to stay with us, you develop these? As Crystal knows, you don't have to say no to any one of those. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:24:59]: Yeah. And so I did, and I started out making that transition from networks to knowledge communities. And I will tell you, Jeff, at the time, when this happened, you will not have any more than 12 communities. How does this happen? You have over everything. Over the hundred likes. So it's amazing as the grandmother of the Casey to see how many children. I would Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:22]: just let you know in the audience, we're just going in for a number of at least one Casey or at least, like, I don't know, like, five, Dr. Bette Simmons [00:25:28]: I think. And to Gwen's credit, she has this vision, and she can articulate it in such a way that it helps to really set the stage and set the foundation for this is what we should create. We knew the knowledge, peace, we knew the networking was still important. And there were some networks that it was a little bit of a struggle to get them to make that shit, especially if their dad would be based ones. It was, you know, it was more of a daddy or wasn't acknowledged. Well, how can we partner? And we keep doing it, and it's successful, honestly, because we're getting ready to celebrate twenty five years of knowledge candidates. Mhmm. So I'm going fast. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:26:03]: That's amazing. I feel like you're NASDAQ team is good. Yeah. Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:07]: You also sent time in the region to your advisory board. You spent time in the foundation board. You so weaving your way through NASCLA, do you have any advice for professionals who are looking to become more adult? Dr. Bette Simmons [00:26:17]: Sure. Connect with someone. If you see someone walking down the corridor or you hear a speaker, well, don't be afraid to step up to that person and say, I just dreamt to speak. I would like to chat with NASPA and how I can get involved. Our president, Amelia Purnell, is awesome. She's very approachable. Kev was the same way. The NASPA board of directors are a terrific group of people. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:26:43]: Having Sarah Devs chair of the foundation board getting involved in fundraising, fund development. There were so many people who know so much about NASPA that it's easy for someone who is new to the association to say, hi. I'd like to be involved. Go through the commons area and just chat with anybody. They'll pull you in. That's possibly pulling folks in. And then we could do one thing. It's not that hard to present a program or go to a region or get for KC unit that is Glenda and just offered volunteer at the moment. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:27:16]: But this all it took was one step. And then here you are, forty five years later as the grand mayor of Nazareth. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:24]: Well, Betty, this season of our podcast is focused on the past, present, and future of student affairs. So we're out seeing Oliver has the season to respond to one question each on past, present, and future. So I'm gonna ask you first, in our past, what's one component of the history of student the question that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively can let go? You know, it makes me think back to Dr. Bette Simmons [00:27:47]: my graduate courses, and my doctoral courses in higher education and when we talk about student affairs and the way a casting affairs came towards us And it was all about taking care of her students. And as people who have worked for you know, first, second, last is always about students. And we should never use that sleep because the work that you do is helping to enrich that at whatever stage the marital graduate they are. I think student affairs is really embracing students even more so because of the basic needs that we talked about, the differences in their learning styles, the language they interact. We certainly have COVID students now. For years, social and emotional learning is a challenge because they haven't had that experience to the extent of early sphere. So if we keep the students first and foremost in our line of sight, then I think that the student affairs profession will continue to do the right one that we do. I also think something that got to let go of is not paying attention to our staff. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:28:51]: And we tend to focus on lunch with students that we forget that the statins giving twenty four seven of their time, and I'm gonna take care of our staffing. It's kind of what we heard in our opening session from Amelia. It's and was awesome. They were really strong when we talked about the joy and the pain. We're all experiencing one as professionals. And sometimes we just put that behind us because I'm gonna really focus on those students. So I'd say, don't let that go. Key fellows will be far. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:21]: Into the choices, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Dr. Bette Simmons [00:29:25]: There's a whole new crumb of these student affairs professionals coming up. In spite of challenges to be in our profession, we've got the younger generation that's really excited about our work. They've had a really exciting college experience as undergraduates. They wanna be a part of Booking Jeep on a daily basis. I think that that gives me hope for in the future, because the present is really incubate a whole crop of senior Garrett's professionals that will feature a profession of our so kinda AT and T questions at Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:56]: once they're in and out. And looking at the future in an ideal world, what Dr. Bette Simmons [00:30:00]: does the needle need to do to cry towards our future? Mhmm. Especially now, I know this question may have hit different. Yeah. I have Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:07]: a little bit of sound. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:30:08]: Yeah. Def we tend to continue to have to justify our existence and our worth and our value. And I know that NASA has got a task force, right, you know, that is really taking a look at strategic planning and setting the the the course of our future and trying to understand not just the work and value of going to college, but the work and value of student affairs. And I think that we have to stop apologizing for who we are and getting the rest of the world to understand that you all can't exist with Alice. And I think student affairs has got to stay strong with that. That, yeah, we are the ones that you will call when there is a crisis. We are the ones that you will call when you need to figure out something to empower the whole student. We are the ones who are willing to hear the differences of the lives of the students throughout their entire career. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:30:53]: So we need to stop apologizing for who we are and really tell people, you need us. So leave us alone. And don't tell us how to do our jobs. We know how. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:17]: Or NCCWSL unites college women and gender nonconforming students from across the nation for a transformative experience in leadership development, networking, and inspiration. Tailored for undergraduate students who identify as women or outside the gender binary, NCCWSL provides a welcoming and empowering space for to build leadership skills, connect with peers, and find inspiration to drive change. Through engaging workshops and hands on activities, NCCWSL challenges and inspires attendees to make meaningful impacts on their campuses and communities long after the conference ends. The conference is happening May 28 through May 30 in College Park, Maryland, and the call for proposals is currently open until 04/07/2025. If you are a speaker, facilitator, educator, or a student that wants to submit a proposal for the conference, we encourage you to submit your proposal by April 7 to be able to be considered for that. The four learning outcomes that the conference is focusing on is awareness of self and others, career engagement, civic engagement policy and advocacy, and leadership development. Again, April 7 is the date to be able to submit your proposal and encourage you to do just that. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:42]: The NASPA emergency aid micro grant initiative is currently open. The application opened the application opened on March 25 and closes on 04/08/2025. Unexpected Unexpected and emergency expenses remain a persistent barrier to on time college completion and student success. A staggering number of students, particularly those enrolled at public two year and most minority serving institutions, report that they would be unable to come up with $500 within a month. NASPA has a deep commitment to addressing basic needs of college students, and we recognize the importance of emergency aid programs in supporting the persistence of students facing unexpected financial crises. This year, NASPA is awarding two and four year accredited institutions with emergency aid micro grants sponsored by TIAA. NASPA is awarding selected institutions with up to $10,000 to provide emergency aid resources directly to students. To apply for this, you can go on to the NASPA website to complete a application form and expect to receive a link to the contact for all application correspondence and only one application per institution will be accepted. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:02]: Again, find out more about the NASPA emergency aid micro grant initiative on the NASPA website. Finally, today, there's a new culture of respect webinar that is happening called evaluating title nine cases without gender bias on 04/17/2025 at 3PM eastern. Researchers find that essentially all reports of sexual abuse are credible, but the vast majority of title nine complaints end in inaction. In this workshop, doctor Nicole Badera will reflect on her year long ethnographic study of one university's Title IX process and explore the reasons that Title IX administrators hesitated to intervene in clear cut cases. Specifically, this workshop will focus on the role of gender bias throughout the Title IX process. Throughout the Title IX process, including staff interactions with complainants and respondents, expectations guiding informal resolution, assessment of evidence in investigations, sanctioning decisions, and provision of supportive measures. You can find out more and sign up for this great online learning opportunity in the NASPA online learning community at learning.NASPA.org. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:19]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:41]: Chris, thank you so much for letting Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:42]: us know what's going on in and around NASPA. We always appreciate your update. And, Betty, it is time for our lightning round. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:36:51]: What about seven questions in about ninety seconds? Okay. Ready? Yep. Alright. Question number one. If you were a conference keynote seeker, what were your entrances be? Fantasy. Bright Earth Moon Fire. Number two. When you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? A library. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:37:06]: I loved books. I loved being in the library and it started when I was very young reading. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:12]: Number three. Who's your most influential professional mentor? Gwen Dungey. Number four, and your last question, Dr. Bette Simmons [00:37:17]: your essential student affairs read. So it's really funny because I get an interim a yearning, and I made the staff read Amelia Parnell's data book because David is so critically important to the work video now, and they had no idea about David and Sedo Harris. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]: Number five. The best TV show that you've been vinging, like The Pit. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:37:37]: I haven't heard that. Oh, you have to see The Pit. It's an emergency room in Pittsburgh, and it's like modern day era VR. I mean, apparently, the people in in emergency rooms of it, it is the most realistic version. Yeah. Aside from that, I watch zero again, which is very applicable what's happening in today's topic. Right? You've seen it? Number six. The podcast you expect the most Alice's Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:00]: week to in the last year. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:38:02]: This one. Oh, I've never known podcasts before. Okay. I'm old school. I'm I'm I'm I'm People are. We're not giving you these bags. And so when you all contacted me to do this, I said, oh, I gotta listen to a podcast. So I went on the site and then listened to your podcast that Mike's Yahoo did. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:38:19]: Mike's person was Jay. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Awesome. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:22]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Dr. Bette Simmons [00:38:27]: So I wanna give a shout out, but never hear it really. I'll make him, to my partner in life, Tyrone. He has been with me for over forty years through his journey. And without him and his support, his understanding, and willingness to be second class to my profession, I wouldn't be where I am today. I also wanna give a shout out to my staff because what I can get to accomplish as a professional, I couldn't have done it without the normal team. At County College of Morris, as I always said, we had the best, the best team on the college campus. They were so and any of my staff from County College of Morris get an opportunity to hear because it's it's one of them. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:08]: Buddy, I so appreciate getting to learn more of their story today and kind of hear the reflections on a four decade career and see if there's how things have changed, how things are kinda the same, and we're leveling now. So you just fit so beautifully in this season of the past, present new future of student affairs. And once again, congratulations on your life. It's a student who is Jeremy. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:39:26]: I would appreciate that. If anyone would like to fit from Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:29]: a conversation with you after this episode, but it was happy to be fine here. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:39:32]: So, I am on LinkedIn. Apparently, I'm on Facebook too, but I spend more time on LinkedIn for more professional visits. And you could always look me up in the in the NASA membership directory, send me an an email, shoot me a text message. I'm more than happy to. Betty, thank you so much Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:46]: for sharing your voices. That's the name. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:39:48]: Thanks for giving me the opportunity to pray. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:55]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at SAvoices@NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. That's me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:35]: Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

4/3/25 • 40:53

In recent years, the landscape of substance use and recovery on college campuses has witnessed transformative shifts, urging a nuanced approach that combines compassion, education, and empowerment. In a revealing conversation on the "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" podcast, experts Dylan Dunn and Sydney Chifetz from the SAFE Project delve into their experiences and strategies in collegiate harm reduction and recovery, providing invaluable insights for higher education professionals. Prioritizing Student Autonomy and Education Dylan and Sydney emphasize the significance of placing students at the forefront of harm reduction efforts. Encouraging students to take charge of their health decisions, the duo highlights the importance of respecting student autonomy. By adopting motivational interviewing techniques and fostering open dialogue, professionals can aid students in discerning their relationship with substances and empower them to make informed choices. Education emerges as a key pillar in this process. Students often lack essential knowledge about the substances they encounter, making educational initiatives crucial. Clear, unbiased information equips students to navigate their substance use responsibly and safely. Navigating Stigma and Compliance Addressing stigma in the context of substance use is paramount. Dylan points out that stigmatizing perceptions create an "us versus them" mentality, hampering open discussions and effective interventions. By cultivating an environment rooted in dignity and understanding, campus professionals can bridge the gap between students and necessary support systems. Simultaneously, the conversation underscores the challenge of aligning harm reduction strategies with compliance requirements, such as the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act. The speakers advocate for an approach that balances legal mandates with empathetic, realistic support mechanisms, ensuring students' holistic well-being and safety. Leveraging Community and Resources The SAFE Project team underscores the power of community collaboration. By engaging with partners beyond campus boundaries, colleges can tap into external resources and expertise, enriching their support systems. This collaborative approach not only enhances the available resources but also fosters a sense of belonging and support for students navigating recovery journeys. Paving the Way Forward In envisioning the future, Dylan and Sydney advocate for a student affairs approach steeped in curiosity, care, and judgment-free zones. Authentic engagement with students' lived experiences can lead to meaningful change, paving the way for healthier campus environments. As student affairs professionals, embracing these principles can reshape how campuses address substance use, fostering environments where students feel heard, supported, and empowered to overcome challenges. Through intentional, compassionate actions, higher education institutions can truly become beacons of hope and healing for students in recovery. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, we bring you an episode that talks about recovery and addiction with college students with two colleagues that are higher ed adjacent working at the SAFE project. Our first guest is Dylan Dunn, hehim. Dylan has dedicated his career to transforming cultures, systems, and programs to empower individuals in recovery and those impacted by addiction and overdose. Throughout his time at Safe Project and in his current professional role as the senior director of Safe Campuses, Dylan has worked with students, faculty, and staff at over 550 campuses and in all 50 states to implement holistic student support, harm reduction and recovery programs, and provide professional development opportunities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:02]: Prior to his work at the SAFE project, Dylan has served as the collegiate recovery program coordinator at the University of Denver where he developed and launched recovery support, stigma reduction, and naloxone availability programs in the memory of Jonathan Winifield. From this work, Dylan has been the recipient of the 2019 NASPA Now Award for Innovation in the Field of Student Affairs. Before his work at the University of Denver, Dylan was a founding advisor for the recovery support community at Colorado State University as well as a residence hall director, student conduct hearing officer, and case manager. Dylan's work is informed by his experience growing up in rural Ohio, the youngest child of a large family involved in the drug trade, and later through the journey of helping his parent along their recovery journey. Dylan holds a master of science in student affairs in higher education from Colorado State University, as well as a bachelor of arts in philosophy and a bachelor of arts in criminology and criminal justice from The Ohio State University. Our second guest is Sydney Chifetz, Miles per hour, deputy director of Safe Campuses, who brings ten years of experience in global health, collegiate recovery, disease prevention, and health education to the field. Currently, Chifetz builds and oversees Safe Projects student development programs, providing learning, advocacy, and leadership opportunities to students nationwide rooted in equity, empowerment, and public health principles. Before joining SAFE Project in 2022, Trifetz led alcohol and other drug prevention, harm reduction, and recovery programs at Gonzaga University. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:21]: Additionally, she served in the field of global health and education in Southern Brazil and on the Polio Eradication Initiative in Northern Nigeria. Sydney holds a master of public health from Oregon State University and is certified in motivational interviewing, recovery coaching, and ethical public health research. She was the recipient of the Oregon State University twenty eighteen Global Consciousness Award and Gonzaga University's twenty twenty one Outstanding New Student Affairs Professional Award. Welcome to the show, Sydney. Sydney Chifetz [00:02:47]: Hey, Jill. How are you today? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:49]: I'm doing great. Thank you so much. And Dylan, welcome. Dylan Dunn [00:02:51]: Hey. Thanks for having Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:52]: us. This is a bit of an unusual episode for us here at SA Voices because normally we're featuring the voices of student affairs professionals. But today, we're thrilled to bring you both in from the SAFE project, which is a nonprofit organization that works with what I would call student affairs adjacent work. So we're in the health promotion space using student affairs language. And the safe project was founded in November of twenty seventeen by admiral James and Mary Winifield following the loss of their 19 year old son, Jonathan, to an accidental opioid overdose. And this family immediately channeled the grief into action, hoping to save more families from the pain of loss, whether it was seeking treatment, getting answers or understanding the nature of the diseases. They, they knew that they needed to be a different solution to helping other families facing the same journey with substance use disorders. And so therefore SAFE Project was created and they're working towards meaningful action through programs and leading efforts that are unifying, nonpartisan and evidence based. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:45]: SAFE seeks meaningful metrics that are strengthening our independent six lines of operation and ultimately aim to achieve safe communities, campuses, workplaces, and veterans across the nation. So today we're focusing on the campuses element. Why don't we get started with asking you both how you got to your current seat in your work with this nonprofit? Dylan Dunn [00:04:02]: Sure. So, again, my name is Dylan. I'm the senior director of our campuses team, which is, as you said, one arm of the safe project team. And I am a student affairs professional by trade. I'm a graduate of the CSU SAHE program. And when I was at Colorado State University, that was when Jonathan Munafald passed away. So I was just 40 miles, 50 miles up the road. And when I graduated from CSU after doing collegiate recovery work there while also working in housing, I got hired at University of Denver to start the program in Jonathan's memory. Dylan Dunn [00:04:29]: And so after a year of working at DU, establishing an collegiate recovery program doing opioid overdose prevention work, I knew it was time for me to go. So I ended up getting hired at Safe Project to help however I could. And then after a a couple months, they realized that I was a student affairs professional, and it would make sense for me to be on the campuses team. And so I've been on the team ever since, and it's been a heck of a journey. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:47]: Sydney, how about you? Sydney Chifetz [00:04:48]: Yeah. So I got started in public health. I was living for a time in Brazil and saw the impacts of infectious diseases there, so decided to get my master's degree and was very fortunate to accept a student a graduate teaching assistantship at Oregon State University where I worked with the collegiate recovery community. I'm a person whose family has been deeply impacted by addiction, so I was grateful for that opportunity while I studied infectious disease and my master's in public health. I graduated and took a position at Gonzaga University where I was a health educator and then later a health promotion specialist. So I no longer work in the field of infectious diseases, and I'm, as you said, higher education or I'm sorry, student affairs adjacent now. But what I liked most kind of shifting into this role is college is such a transformative time for so many folks, and it's a really important time when we think about kind of developing lifelong skills and particularly discerning health behaviors and education, particularly around substance use. It's been a really great opportunity. Sydney Chifetz [00:05:40]: So when I came about at Safe Project, I love doing this work on a national scale and then also in the work that we do now, empowering students to kind of lead the charge on their own campuses. So a roundabout way, but I got here eventually. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:53]: This work is something that has been important for colleges and universities for the last several decades. I feel like when the opioid epidemic was first becoming part of the consciousness of collegiate prevention work, that was probably about twenty years ago at this point in time, and it was very, very focused on for a while. And that has quieted over time, and I I believe we're starting to see that work kind of come back into the consciousness more than it has in the past. But what are the the top things that you're focusing on right now in the prevention and recovery space for campuses? Dylan Dunn [00:06:24]: I think it often breaks into two pieces for us. One is collegiate recovery. We do a lot of work with students around recovery, and I'll defer Sydney on that here in a second. But we do a lot of work also with opioid overdose prevention and response. Some of that work is directly with NASPA also. And so we help campuses build the systems, the infrastructure, the readiness, and then find the resources to do things like naloxone distribution and education, naloxone being the drug that folks use to, reverse an overdose. But that is kind of our technical work that we do, I would say, where we're doing a lot of, like, if this, then that, and if this, then that over and over again to help people build these programs. But Sydney does some really great work around empowering students in recovery and helping students be a part of this work. Dylan Dunn [00:07:02]: So I wanna pass it to her for that. Sydney Chifetz [00:07:03]: Yeah. So thanks, Dylan. As it pertains to collegiate recovery communities, a lot of our work focuses on ensuring that students are kind of leading the charge there, knowing that they are the ones most impacted and they are really the ones that should be the biggest stakeholder in this work. So we bring on a cohort of fellows each year that do the boots on the ground work and just we provide some of that coaching and guidance as they do the work. A key focus of ours now, as Dylan has said, is the prevention, a lot of harm reduction because that's where the focus of students has been over the past couple years. And then as it pertains to recovery, ensuring that collegiate recovery communities are more inclusive, we've certainly seen a change over time. And what does it mean to identify as a person in recovery? What does a person need to have in order to be part of a collegiate recovery community? And then are some of those barriers that are placed onto these programs ensuring that all students feel like they are part of that and can seek those resources? And then to the point of prevention, we're having these conversations about how can we ensure that our prevention approach focuses on public health so it's much more holistic, shifting away as I'm sure, you know, everybody is now from this just say no message or even just this, like, education is all that folks need to what calls a person to use or overuse alcohol or other drugs? What are the conditions in their life? Whether that's a lack of emotional intelligence or hope healthy coping strategies or, for college students, right, support systems or outlets that they might have. So thinking about holistic health and and taking that public health approach to prevention nowadays. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:38]: That public health approach to prevention, I feel like, has been really strong in higher education in the last several years. And I think one of the things that we struggle with is where should we be focusing our efforts? I think harm reduction related to alcohol has been a primary focus of higher ed administrators for a long time, largely because it's prevalent in the culture of American collegiate society in ways that we don't see in other countries. And then we add in these elements of harm reduction related to cannabis use, harm reduction related to substances that for lack of a better term, come in and out of fashion almost where we see certain substances being more popular in different eras over time than kind of falling by the wayside and new substances coming into the community and things like that. So when we think about the work that you're doing, how do you recommend campuses approach this harm reduction effort knowing that it's not just one substance that we're trying to help students figure out how to reduce their harm against or to stop usage or to do whatever they need to do to help someone else recover. Dylan Dunn [00:09:38]: We have professionals who talk to us a lot about, like, the new substance on the block. Like, oh, we had we a parent reached out because we heard that some student or somebody got injured by a substance that they'd never heard of before, and the fear of that will then cause a lot of stir. The thing that makes our job easy in those moments is we're not actually chasing the substances anymore. We're chasing the principles of this work so that it's about education. It's about empowerment. It's about making sure that students feel like they have what they need. Yes. Sometimes that is substance dependent, but sometimes making sure they have what they need to navigate their own wants and needs well. Dylan Dunn [00:10:13]: Sometimes that means they got in trouble and we figure out how do we stop that, or how do we kind of navigate the realities of the world around them. But our goal is to stay principled enough in public health principles and harm reduction principles and all of that so that we can stay balanced. And, like, we're not gonna be so surprised by a new substance that we're kind of knocked off kilter and don't know what to do next. And so it's about us being informed by trends, but not trying to be trendy is the way that I explain it a lot. Because the trendiness makes our job harder because we're always chasing, and we're trying not to do that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:41]: I like that because what it shows is that the abuse of substances is likely related to other conditions, not necessarily related to whether a substance is most popular at the moment. You mentioned the principles of harm reduction and public health being core to the work. Can you talk a little bit about what those are? Sydney Chifetz [00:10:57]: Yeah. So a couple that come to mind and particularly pertaining to this conversation, autonomy. So when working with college students, we recognize that these are adults that can and should be making their own decisions, and it's not it is our responsibility to work with them, you know, using some of the principles in motivational interviewing and and public health, right, to understand what are what are these person's desires as we've been talking about? Like, what are the reasons why they're choosing to consume substances at at whatever rate that they are. So really respecting a person's autonomy. Education, there are some students that we work with that don't know some of the basics of particular substances, especially as we've noted, like, there seems to be every couple years or a couple months a new substance in the field, that students are intentionally or unintentionally having relationships with. So education around what is this doing, and then I think working with students to discern what would they like their relationship with that substance to be and and how can they reduce their risk of harm. But I think what I always come back to in the work that we do is that people have choices, and we can work to empower them to make more informed choices. And then if they're going to make a certain choice, the ways that they can reduce their risk of harm. Sydney Chifetz [00:12:05]: I don't know how much you want me to go into like, this is the casual part, like basic public health principles, basic harm reduction principles. I don't know. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:12]: I think anything that you can share that might be helpful for our audience to narrow their foci into. I know that a lot of our listeners are also graduate students. They love learning theory. We also have, listeners who are teaching in higher ed master's programs, and also a number of professionals who maybe don't go into this work on a day to day basis. Sydney Chifetz [00:12:30]: So one of the concepts which we use a lot in our work and particularly health promotion professionals are using all the time within a motivational interviewing framework is the idea of stages of change. And so I don't know how prevalent that was as part of the conversation twenty years ago of it's not as easy as, a, just saying no or, b, making a change. Right? Most of us are ambivalent about many aspects of our experience, particularly as it pertains to our health. So working with people to recognize that change can happen, change takes time, and, also, it's about many aspects of our life that sometimes need to change in order for our relationship with alcohol and other drugs to, be changed. So that's one of the things. Dylan, I'm gonna pass it to you. Dylan Dunn [00:13:13]: The most fun part, I think, about this work as a student affairs professional is that this work is really just student student development theory over and over and over and over again. I think sometimes student affairs professionals will get kind of in our own way thinking that our subject matter expertise is not the specifics of substance use, and therefore, we must defer. I think important deferring is important when it's useful, but so much of our work is empowering students and empowering the development of students as they're in their stage of emerging adulthood, trying to figure out where they are in this world, what rules they wanna follow, what their rules for themselves are. And if we the moment we go into that with students, they're shocked. Like, oh, I thought that was the substance use is exempt from that conversation, I thought. And if we're saying no, like, sub your relationship to substances can be rooted in dignity and can be rooted in empowerment and education and you figuring out what your own approach is gonna be for the rest of your life, suddenly it's so much easier. It's when we wanna be the police in the conversation, which I understand there's reason for that on college campuses. There's plenty of reasons why, but we can both keep campuses safe and keep campuses compliant while also empowering students through the basics of how we know we need to develop students even if that includes substances. Dylan Dunn [00:14:22]: And we can talk in at length about the role of stigma and all of that and the role of judgment, but I find this work if you let it be simple, it can be simple. And it can be really fun, but we often are afraid to do that, I think. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:32]: I wanna revisit something you mentioned, Sydney, about motivational interviewing being really hot at the moment as a as a style of working with students in the harm reduction conversation. Such an important tool. So if you're listening and you've never heard of motivational interviewing, it's actually a a style of conversation. A lot of people think of motivational interviewing as a counseling technique, but it's not really. It's a way of having a conversation with someone that allows them to elucidate their own thoughts and feelings about a a change that they're thinking about making in their life. There's a good book out there called Motivational Engineering for College Students, something like that. I'll have to go find the type the exact title, but it's a good way to start. And I know when we were using that on the team that I was working with, actually in Colorado as well, we were able to see almost like a a 33% drop in recidivism for students that were having conversations about their alcohol use through the motivational interviewing context when in comparison to students who went through a traditional conduct process. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:25]: So there's so much empowerment available as long as you have the right training and tools to have the conversation. So it's an exciting time. But Dylan, I also wanted to go back to something that you had mentioned around stigma. So let's talk a little bit about stigma in substance use and abuse and what we're seeing with the collegiate environment. Dylan Dunn [00:15:41]: It's a big question. I think the hard part for our work and for the anybody doing substance use work on campus is we don't get to exempt ourselves from stigma that is off campus because all of our students are bringing with them everything that they've experienced throughout their life and up until this point and then what they expect to see once they leave. And then then there's also this unique stigma that exists exists on campus in in different senses. But in general, I think the bottom line of it all is that when we talk about substances, there tends to be this us versus them conversation that quickly emerges because people are afraid of being in us in this con or they're afraid of being in them in this conversation is a better way to say it. Them being people who use drugs. And so then the way we either bifurcate that or start to outline that depends on the culture of the university. And so there are some campuses where an us is someone who uses alcohol. People on our campus, people may say, our students drink, but they don't do those other things. Dylan Dunn [00:16:32]: And then when we say we don't do those other things, the kind of mythologies we'll create about why that is or what those other things must be like often are rooted in almost zero reality. They're kind of just like these assumptions that we make about, oh, people use drugs are this way or that way. And, again, we can go through lists and lists of what those stigmatizing beliefs look like, but we spent a lot of time focusing on language when it comes to stigma, but we've also now been breaching a lot of conversations around just underlying beliefs that get us to this defensiveness around substance use out of judgment, not even really about safety, but about judgment and lack of understanding. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:06]: That stigma space is is so interesting because we also are balancing compliance. Right? And so the reality of the conversations that we need to be having on our campuses are what is the prevalence of usage related to some of these substances? How are these substance use situations affecting students' ability to show up every day and do what they need to do to learn in their academic space? How is that impacting their well-being overall? And then on the other side, we have the tension of the Direct Free Schools and Communities Act and the Controlled Substances Act pushing against effectively what is zero tolerance. And so our campus policies always have to be zero tolerance to receive that federal funding. But the way that we respond to those doesn't necessarily have to be that dichotomous. It can be more nuanced. So I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about the universities that you're seeing do this work the best or at least, most progressively are aligning with both the demands of what we need to do for compliance alongside what we actually need to do to care for the humanity for our students. And you don't necessarily need to name a university, but wondering what those practices look like in terms of how is this support work coming out and really looking effective. Sydney Chifetz [00:18:09]: Yeah. So I think a big piece of it is helping universities understand what aspects of the work that they do and the approach that they take is up to them and the work that they do with students and how much of that has guidelines outlined in the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act. So a lot of what we see, particularly around conference season, right, is there's always a lot of sessions that talk about what is required of you and what approach can you take as it pertains to, harm reduction, for example, under the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act. And a piece of that, right, is so what is required of us? We are required to be drug free. We are required to provide this, this, and this. And what do we have control over? Right? So what are we communicating? What is that style? What do our conduct meetings look like? Right? Are we providing a a space where students can really talk through their experience? And we have all probably been there. Those of us that have done basics in k six or motivational interviewing meetings. Right? Like, when a student comes in and they grasp for the first time that you are there to support them and you are there to hear them out and work with them to figure out what a solution is gonna be to where the university feels comfortable. Sydney Chifetz [00:19:14]: I feel like I did my job as a whatever, and the universe and the student has kind of tools that they can move forward with. So I think a lot of that is to what extent are we communicating, what is required, but then what extent are we choosing an approach that is on top of that? The word that comes to mind is rigid. Right? Like, can we see the humanity in some of these? Certainly, the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act is meant to protect students, and it is meant to create spaces of learning. And how can we also see the human experience and in what students are experiencing and the approach that we take to that often in whether that's conduct meetings or basics meetings, it can be a lot less rigid. It can be a lot more of, let me hear how this is going for you. And nobody wants to be thrown rules at. But when students understand where is that coming from, it's often that students don't understand the Drug Free Schools and Community Act because we haven't done a good job of outlining to them where is this coming from and why is this important. And then what is my role as a university staff member in not only enforcing this, but also making sure that students feel heard and they have the resources they need, etcetera. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:28]: You've mentioned the board basics a couple of times, so I just wanna clarify what that is for our audience. It stands for brief alcohol screening intervention for college students, and it's a a style of sitting with a student for harm reduction with relationship with alcohol, usually done with visual feedback, such that the student can have a personalized conversation about their own relationship with alcohol, and then the administrator can use that opportunity to use the motivational interviewing style to talk about any changes they wanna make in their relationship with alcohol. It's a really great way of being with students. The the training can be a little bit extensive, but you you pretty much only need to do it once and you pretty much get the hang of of what you're doing. But, Dylan, what did you wanna add? Dylan Dunn [00:21:05]: The thing that we are often surprised about is the amount of folks who so, obviously, in a student affairs program, you're gonna learn about the drugs free schools and communities act. It's gonna be a part of your education. I mean, I assume, and I I hope so. But I would say we're at a fifty fifty point maybe. I don't have the data behind this, but it seems this way. Like, for example, the NASPA strategies conference that about half of the people doing alcohol and drug work on college campuses don't have a student affairs background. And that's a really cool tool for us to have in this field of the difference of backgrounds and education and all of that. But what it does sometimes when it comes to DFSCA, the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act, is we in our presentations a lot, will show the parts of the DFSCA, and a lot of folks in the audience have actually never read the DFSCA. Dylan Dunn [00:21:44]: And so I encourage everyone who's listening to go and read the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act if you would like because we it is titled the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act, but the part and soul of it is that you can't break the law. And it's really that long and that that's as difficult as it is to understand, but it is not breaking the law to do principled legal harm reduction work or to have really meaningful, tactful, direct conversations with students about alcohol and other drugs. And but I think sometimes people will hear the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act, and they assume they're gonna be violating it by doing this work directly. And we had there was, someone from the Department of Education, of course, last year that came to NASPA and clarified for everybody that like, fentanyl testing strips, for example. Fentanyl testing strips require us to acknowledge that students may be using drugs, but that is protecting students. And so to there have been schools we've worked with who have said, well, fentanyl testing strips cannot fall off in the DFSCA, but that can't be true. If fentanyl testing strips are legal somewhere and it's also us keeping our students safe, the order of operations there of safety and lawfulness outweigh the stigma of, well, we don't want those students here as often with the underlying messages if we're talking about stigma here. And that's a really hard place. Dylan Dunn [00:22:50]: We have to navigate that a lot is what I'll say. And often with that, yes, knowledge is power and clarity is power there and just being willing to have the hard conversation. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:57]: So while we're talking about fentanyl testing strips and you previously mentioned Narcan is what most people know it know it as, How are you seeing these two tools being utilized on college campuses effectively to protect students? Dylan Dunn [00:23:08]: When I was at University of Denver in 2018, I think there were maybe 12 schools in the country who were utilizing naloxone or having naloxone as part of their programming or a tool that was available to students. That as of NASPA strategies this year, I think the data was shared that about half of schools in the across the country have Naloxone available to students. So it's a huge shift in seven years, but it also reflects the importance of the opioid crisis over the past over that time period. But the there are many schools who are doing it really well, and I think all of them that what they have in common is that they both train folks openly, and they train them often. They have naloxone available for distribution so that folks can grab it and take it with them throughout their daily lives, and they also have it available as permanently set on campus like an AED kit, for example, and if they have clarity around their policies. Good Samaritan policies, medical amnesty policies, things like that. As I mentioned earlier, we've worked with NASPA on this problem and this need specifically, and we've created a checklist alongside NASPA and the higher ed center at Ohio State. A checklist of 10 things that campuses should be at least attempting to accomplish in order to say that they are addressing opioid overdose response on their campus. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:10]: Can you tell us the brief version of what those 10 things are? Dylan Dunn [00:24:12]: There's two halves of it. The first half is what I was just saying. Having naloxone available for an emergency response. The part about that that we focus on is it's not just, oh, we have naloxone in a drawer somewhere. It's that you have it available within five minutes of someone experiencing an overdose. I know on many campuses, a five minute response time is very, very quick. I've also been on campuses where a five minute response time would be seen as unacceptable. And so that's something maybe as a reminder to folks that if someone is experiencing an overdose, they have five minutes or less before this is not reversible. Dylan Dunn [00:24:42]: And so that's why we use that five minute number. Having naloxone available for distribution for on and off campus emergencies, recurring trainings, having Good Samaritan responsible exemption policies for so that students know they should prioritize response over fearing getting in trouble. Everything below those first ones is very technical and policy and procedure focused, like having policies and procedures for response, for responding to community impacts, for internal tracking, publicly available overviews, so DFSCA stuff there, and then, again, continued tracking and then data sharing with important groups in their community. So it's not meant to be a if you don't have all 10 of these, you're not doing anything. It's more of here are the 10 goals we would set for you if you are intending to keep your students safe if this were to happen. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:23]: You mentioned Good Samaritan medical amnesty policies. I know that there has been a dialogue in higher ed for a while about whether those amnesty policies should include alcohol and other drugs. That has been kind of something that's been circling around, particularly related to the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act. Where are you seeing the best practice go? Sydney Chifetz [00:25:41]: I think something that students were always hyper mindful of when I was directly on campuses is when universities take a different approach to what substances are involved, there's inherent judgment in that. Right? So certain universities that might have a higher fine for cannabis, say, than they have for alcohol or the number of brief motivational interventions is higher for one over another. So what does that do? Right? It increases stigma. It honestly makes students more cautious, not necessarily around how they're partaking in the substance, but how they're interacting with the university. Right? If we if students perceive that the university is more comfortable with them having a relationship with alcohol than them having relationship with cannabis, students are then just gonna gravitate towards one substance over another or get better at hiding use of one substance over another and also not then being forthcoming when it comes to having conversations with professionals on campus that want to have open dialogues with them to help them get to a spot that is more reduced risk of that use. Right? If students are pulled through messaging that they shouldn't be upfront about the substance that they're engaging in, then the health promotion professionals can't do their best work. So I think, right, there are different ways that certain substances impact the body, and there are certainly substances that have different impacts and different, health outcomes to be mindful of. But when we you know, we've seen this throughout time. Sydney Chifetz [00:27:04]: Right? Illicit drug versus not illicit drug or hard drugs versus whatever. Right? So we are so conditioned to put substances into boxes, and I think a lot of that comes from the stigma of who uses certain substances and then what types of people, quote, unquote, use other sorts of substances. But if we want to take kind of a a holistic approach to it, it is that students are using substances for a certain outcome. And when we put a line in the sand, the consequences of this is going to be different than the consequences of this. What are we saying about substance use? And, ultimately, what are we teaching unconsciously often students to do when they're engaging in certain substances over other other substances. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:42]: That's such an important point and a hard conversation for university administrators to have because you have to have that conversation with yourself first about what are your own biases in this situation and how are those biases creeping into policy, administration of policy, as well as response. I do wanna get down to a little bit of nitty gritty detail as well and just ask, what are we seeing in terms of prevalence on college campuses these days around substance use related to alcohol and other drugs? Sydney Chifetz [00:28:09]: Yeah. You know, it it really depends on the data and how what timeline we are looking at the data. Right? And so we saw alcohol kinda take a dip in the first periods of the pandemic, and it's kind of spikes back up. We also very much hear about this sober curious movement. Right? So a lot of Gen Z and Generation Alpha are questioning the relationship they want to have with alcohol. I know that the most recent university that I I served at, I engaged in a cannabis research initiative because I was seeing in a lot of my motivational interventions that students were using cannabis at a at a on a daily basis, and yet that was not being reflected in the data that we were seeing. And And I think we can talk for a long time about what sort of students are taking these hour long surveys that we're collecting data from, and are those the type of students that are engaging in daily cannabis practices. Right? But so I definitely think that something that this is not new. Sydney Chifetz [00:29:01]: Right? But the use of alcohol twenty years ago, blacking out was an unintended consequence of alcohol use. And now in certain circles and in certain communities, we are hearing that blacking out is the goal. We can have long conversations about boards or blackout rage gallons or whatever that were a hot topic, particularly among higher ed administrators to be discussing a couple years ago. Right? But the ways that students are engaging in alcohol and what the outcomes that they would like to be look different now. And then there are also emerging pockets of students saying alcohol isn't serving it's not the substance that I want to be using, or I don't wanna be using substances. Right? So that's a really beautiful movement that has spiked up and students being really steadfast in their in their view of that. And I think in many of the universities that I've served at and the situationally, this is in the Pacific Northwest, but cannabis use. Like, cannabis is something that can use more easily on campus, particularly in certain pockets of the country culturally. Sydney Chifetz [00:30:03]: Alcohol might look down upon, but cannabis is perceived as this way that we can be more creative and be more authentic. And and I'm not applying judgment to that at all, but I am saying that when we take this approach of comparing the ways that students used to use alcohol to what they might be using now, I, for one, have looked a lot at the cannabis rates and and talking to students about what is your experience, particularly post pandemic? Why are students using cannabis? What does this mean? Are they self medicating to an extent? Are they using it as a tool for connection? But I do think that's something that I have seen become much more normalized, not just this, I use cannabis on a Saturday night to hang out with my friends to, no, I I wake up and I use cannabis because it helps me do x, y, or z better, and I need it also in order to fall asleep. And then also, why not just go home in the middle of the day too to get a little bit of a serotonin spike? So that's something that I've been observing over time. Dylan Dunn [00:30:58]: We see in the data that some of us may have never ever seen this coming until legalization was happening, but cannabis and alcohol are starting to culturally line up more as alcohol rates are beginning to fall, I think, most significantly for the first time in my lifetime. Alcohol is kind of the thing that never changed. We would just do our best to navigate it. I think we are seeing that change as of recently, but that change is being then replaced or influenced by cannabis. Students grew up seeing the outcomes of alcohol use, and they were not thrilled. But they have not seen that with cannabis, so why that would make more sense. The other thing that has to do with our work is most schools will see opioid use as declining. It was never more than two and a half, 3%, but it is still declining. Dylan Dunn [00:31:37]: The challenge with that is we are seeing often cocaine use rates are increasing, and even, like, methamphetamine rates are either the same or increasing around the country. Why I bring that up is that we often hear administrators go point at the opioid rates declining and be really excited that that means overdose response can relax. The problem is fentanyl, most often the cause of overdose, is found in pills and powders. And so it's anytime we're having conversations around cocaine as a powder or any sort of pill, whether it's especially or and only if it's illicit as what we're talking about here, illicit pills. So counterfeit pills, press pills, those are likely to cause opioid overdose even if they're not intended to be used as opioids. That's a distinction that I know can be tricky for, many of us who don't do this work every day, but fentanyl is found throughout the drug supply. And so if pills, powders are being used, pills and or powders are being used, we still need to be thoughtful about opioid overdose response because that's where and when it happens. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:31]: Then that is using that that pill may not know that there's fentanyl present in that medication as well. So as we look at the whole picture here, most student affairs professionals don't interact with harm reduction on a day to day basis as part of their work, but we all work with the same students. So if I am a student affairs professional, what should I be looking for or thinking about as I interact with the student population that I'm serving, in order to equip myself to have either a difficult conversation or make a referral? Dylan Dunn [00:33:01]: I love the question because I think the answer is a bit more maybe interesting than some folks are expecting. And because for me, the tools you need are curiosity and care. The I it's that often then offsets this look for students whose eyes look a certain way or who are acting a certain way. In my experience, both on and off campus, students people use substances for reasons. And those reasons, we can dig into those and understand those, and especially college students are using for very simple reasons either to belong or to cope in some way. And so if you understand that a student is going through something difficult, there's never a wrong time to ask, how are you dealing with that? The challenge is do they perceive you as someone who would be nonjudgmental? And so folks on campus who are doing alcohol and other drug work well often are seen as the cool staff or the, like, the folks on campus that students can really trust as long as the university has set them up to be that way. Some campuses require, quote, unquote, the cool staff to hide in corners because they don't want them to be known because then that would maybe send a a message that that is okay to participate in substance using behaviors rather than it's okay to have people on our staff who are equipped and well skilled in helping students navigate the challenges of life. There's, like, those kind of stigma based and culturally based reframes that I think are really important. Dylan Dunn [00:34:11]: But I know Sydney used to do far more direct services work on campus than I was doing since I was doing more, again, housing and things like that. Sydney Chifetz [00:34:17]: I think to your point, Dylan, first and foremost is listening to your students. And I think sometimes the mistake that offices of health promotion make is the students that we're listening to aren't the students that have the experiences that we can best learn from. So I think listening to students, listening to students that come in through the conduct process, listening to our student interns. And we want the student interns that know the vibe on campus. Right? So that we can have an understanding of what's truly happening and also those cultural shifts, the trend shifts as are happening. We don't wanna be, this has been happening on our campus for a year, and we weren't listening to understand it as it started to emerge. So I think listening to students. Second is taking a reality based approach to the work that we do. Sydney Chifetz [00:35:02]: And I think most of us are doing this now. Right? But we can pretend like something isn't happening, or we can apply judgment to something and and not talk about it upfront, or we can recognize that there are some humans that are going to partake in certain substances and certain behaviors. And what approach should we take to ensure that these folks are reducing their risk of harm if they're choosing to engage in a certain behavior, have the education that they need so that they can make informed decisions, have the resources that they do decide, you know, this isn't working for me anymore, or I'm ready to make a change that might be more sustainable. Right? So using reality based education, reality based approaches to how we're doing the work now. And then I think as it pertains to directly working with students, just not dancing around it. Right? It's okay to point out to students, hey, friend. Here's what I've noticed. Or, like, hey, do you mind if I'm real with you for a second? And I think if we could take judgment out of that conversation, but really point out to folks like, hey, here's what I've noticed. Sydney Chifetz [00:36:04]: I'm just checking in. Is everything okay? Or, hey, You used to, I don't know, come to my office once a week, and now I I only see you every couple months. Is everything okay? Or, you know, I think it's also okay too when we see students what is an appropriate way of pointing out to a student, like, kinda takes one to know one. When a student would show up to my office and have, like, they had clearly been partaking in a substance that day, how can I without judgment, but also point out, like, hey? And not calling a student out, but, like, making there are ways that you can point something out without making it a very serious, like, hey. I noticed that you're showing up to this k six, so basics but applied to cannabis. I know that you're showing up to this k six conversation under the influence of cannabis. No. But, hey. Sydney Chifetz [00:36:47]: I'm noticing that some of the students show up to my office under the influence of cannabis. Why do you think that is? Right? So you can kinda pull students into the conversation, but also make students aware that you are not unaware of what's happening. But also, I would so much rather be the type of person on campus that has the approach of, like, whatever's going on, whatever state you're in or or wherever you're at, come on by my office, and we'll figure it out together, especially if you don't know where to turn rather than let me stay away at this time because I'm fear of judgment, fear of consequences, whatever. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:20]: Any other thoughts for student affairs professionals on working through any challenges that they might be having on their campus related to substance overdose or learning about health promotion practices themselves or anything else in this topic that you think that might be interesting or valuable? Dylan Dunn [00:37:35]: Not to I mean, yes, to plug ourselves. I think Sydney and I both in our campuses team, we're always available. Like, our jobs at the end of the day, if we had do nothing else, is to make sure that student affairs professionals and folks on campus don't feel like they're doing this work alone. And so if someone is sitting in their office, they're the only person in their health promotion office who's doing this work, and they're just not sure where to turn, often, yes, Google can be helpful. But often, you're gonna find less information less helpful information just by googling something than you would by asking a peer and then engaging in a dialogue with them. And both Sydney and I are available. Our calendars are available to folks. We'll share our website at the end. Dylan Dunn [00:38:09]: But, yeah, we're here to make sure that folks feel like they can have the real conversation with peers in the field first as opposed to using a student as the first time you've had this conversation well. Or if you're not sure if your supervisor is the best person to have this conversation with, I understand. I know what that's like. And so if we wanna have conversations together first, we're available for that. We're more than glad to do it. And just I was thinking as Sydney was speaking of we are very intentional and purposeful in student affairs about being reflective practitioners. And the best way to do that often is to get out of our own heads. And we have some tools to use at SAFE to help people do that, but just look for good podcasts or books. Dylan Dunn [00:38:44]: We can recommend them maybe in the description or something later. But there are so many great opportunities to engage with the experience of people who do use drugs or have used drugs or in recovery or not. And understanding those perspectives colors our experience as professionals so much more vibrantly than just trying to stop something. I say a lot, you can't do it, don't. And so rather than being the person who's trying to help people to stop doing something, what if I have another option for them? What if I have a more deep conversation with them? Then would you please stop? You're causing problems. But I know that takes effort, and it's hard to, do when all of us are often overworked and underpaid, truthfully. And so I know how that feels, but a lot of a lot there. But, Sydney, you may have some, extra stuff too. Sydney Chifetz [00:39:23]: No. Dylan, I think to your point, like, obviously, we are always here and eager to have conversations with folks and help them understand how does this relate to what others in the country might be seeing. I also think that something that excites me the most is where the ways that we get to engage with students. Some of the students that we have as part of our fellowship now are some of the brightest people that I get to have conversations with right now, and they are very much leading the charge. So I think, like, it when we're, as Dylan said, overworked and underpaid on campus, we tend to kind of put our head down and go at it alone without recognizing that there are students on our campus that are very passionate. They want to help, but they need to be engaged in a way that's gonna work for them. Right? So we're not tokenizing their experience, but we are walking alongside them as we're figuring this out. Dylan's gonna laugh at this, but I am a big proponent of focus groups on campus. Sydney Chifetz [00:40:13]: Right? I think we get so much data from really wonderful surveys, and how often are those occurring, how long do they take students to take, and therefore, who is taking them sorts of thing. And we could just get better at talking to our students. Some of the best, data, quote, unquote, that I had at my previous institution was, hey. I'll give you a $15 DoorDash gift card, and I recognize that that takes resources that some universities might have or not have. But I'll give you $15 at DoorDash. If you come and talk to me for an hour, I'm gonna ask you four questions. I'm not gonna write down your contact information unless you wanna be involved with me, but I just wanna hear authentically your thoughts on this. Because I think students, so often we are conditioned to talk to our supervisor. Sydney Chifetz [00:40:55]: We're conditioned to talk to one of the listening sessions that multiple institutions are having. And that is great for what is happening kind of upper level or at the national level. But so often, it's what is the culture of our campus? What is the culture of this particular community? What have our students chosen to do about it? How normalized is x, y, or z? So bringing the right students in that want to be part of the solution with us and asking them their authentic, hey. What's really going on? And if I wanna be the best in service to you all as a health promotion professional as possible, what approach do I need to take? Recognizing, right, that there are certain aspects of my role, and as we talked about with the Drugs Free Skills and Communities Act, that I can or cannot do. But what am I missing here, or what is impacting you the most, or what is your why? Our students aren't just gravitating towards substances for no reason. There is a why. And can we get deeper as to of what are other ways that we can bring in other campus professionals to ensure that their mental health needs are being met on campus and they're not having to wait a month for an appointment, or disability access is well staffed and well resourced, and they all have safe and stable places to live and x, y, and z. Right? So working with students to take a much more holistic approach. Dylan Dunn [00:42:07]: It's indeed said that I would laugh at the focus groups thing. I wanna point out why that is for folks because I don't know a single person who got into student affairs because they didn't wanna hear what students had to say or they didn't find that valuable when they were a student to be heard and seen by a professional. Many of us had changed their lives, had changed the entire trajectory of our lives to be seen and heard by someone who we perceive to be there for us on a college campus. And yet when we work with professionals, I understand that focus groups take time and they take effort, but the amount of folks that we get in these deep conversations with pause and go, have you actually talked to students about this? And the answer is most often no. We're I think and that comes often, at least in the way I perceive it as as professionals, we're almost afraid to be seen as naive or afraid to be seen as wrong. But when you're working with students, sometimes that's the best thing you can do is say, help me understand this. I am just a person who hasn't been in college for ten, fifteen, twenty years. I wanna understand your experience. Dylan Dunn [00:42:56]: I want you to be the expert in this room right now. But for some reason, a lot of us as we do this work and it gets buried by the bureaucracy of it and the daily work of it, we lose touch with the student experience. And I think that's something that, again, we laugh about because it's the reason so much of it so many of us do this work, but it's sometimes the first thing that gets thrown to the wayside. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:14]: We're gonna transition now to talking about our theme questions for the season. Again, we're talking about the past, present, and future of student affairs. And, because you're adjacent, we'll shift it just a little bit. But what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think should be carried forward or alternatively let go of? And you could focus this more on health promotion if that's more useful. Sydney Chifetz [00:43:34]: I think the first thing that comes to mind, and I have convinced myself that this no longer happens, and then you talk to folks that this might still be a part of their practice. So it's kind of this idea of, like, if we can just bestow knowledge onto students, they will do different. Right? Or that we are the keepers of good resources or we are the keepers of good behaviors and that we can then teach students how to do these things. These are the principles of what I think most health promotion practitioners are using nowadays, but it doesn't come from me. It doesn't come from me, the university staff member. It comes from the student, and it is just my job to help them understand that and utilize it in an appropriate way. But it's obviously not just saying no, that we're gonna get ourselves out of this overdose crisis or get ourselves out of this place that we're at where students would rather engage in life under the influence of something or or feel the need to engage in life under the influence of something. And often, it's not just that students don't know, and it's not that we need to be the ones to enlighten students to this. Sydney Chifetz [00:44:34]: It's that the students already have what they need within them, and it's our job to help them to kinda pull that pull that out a little bit. What do you you have the choice here. You are an adult, and I know it feels right now as an 18, 19, 20 year old, like, everyone is telling you what to do and what box you need to fit in. But outside of the four years or however long you're in an institution of higher education, you have autonomy and you get to live your life the way you want to. And so if we can start instilling those practices and getting students aware that they have choice, they have autonomy, and it is also a responsibility to how do we care for ourselves, how do we care for our community. And and so I think if we can as we're working with students and institutions of learning, how can we get them to already start thinking about this rather than we need to protect our students while they're here? It's like, no. We can educate students on, yes, what is the BAC of certain substances. Right? And that is important, but it's also empowering students to know that they are in the driver's seat of their experience, and we are all here to help and guide them when it makes sense for us to do so while they're on campus. Dylan Dunn [00:45:39]: The phrase en loco parentis that a lot of us learn and navigate all day long on, college campuses of we're here to serve in place of the parent. That, I think, is actually a really interesting history and also something that needs to change. Because what we have to if we're that is our job legally is to be in place of the parent. We have to also understand what parenting looks like right now in The United States and what our students are bringing in with them or not bringing with them in terms of parental relationships or the conversation students have or have not had about substances coming into campuses. And so if we are when we hear the word parent, what do we think of? I could think of my experience of we don't talk about that here or we ignore the hard stuff. But what I would like that to mean is we talk about the hard things and we really prepare ourselves for a sustainable life and that beautiful relationship that it can be. And so I that has always been a good both reframe and accountability piece for me is what do I want my job as in place of the parent to mean and be direct about that with yourself and be reflective about it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:34]: Looking at the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs slash health promotion? Dylan Dunn [00:46:40]: And so I work mostly with our professionals at the at the at the moment, professionals that reach out to us. There's a lot of care, I will say. And there has always been care in the field, but there maybe the older I get or the more I work with just professionals, the more I am gaining an appreciation for how much staff care and how much of an opportunity that is. And I so I know, especially in today's age of threats to higher education and budgeting and all of that, how hard how easy it can be to be, like, nihilistic and cynical about all of this. But we we need to continue to do is just care and care for each other also as professionals and reach out and connect and not burnout is gonna be the enemy of the next rev of higher education. It already has been. There's a reason that we always speak joke or whether the data still shows us or not that the average student affairs professional stays for five years. I would like to see us really continue to dig into that because I think the care and the compassion has always been there, but I see it. Dylan Dunn [00:47:29]: It feels different now. It feels more realistic as opposed to just sunshine and rainbows. It feels like it feels more like what I would like to see love look like within four students. Sydney Chifetz [00:47:38]: I think for me, it's realness. So I don't know if this is coming post pandemic or just the place that we're all at now. But I think from what I've seen, folks are much more willing and comfortable having the tough conversations. So not only with folks in their office, not only with students, but also with administrators of this is what's actually happening. And we see this a lot, right, because of the work that we do with overdose. You can't sugarcoat the overdose prices. You have to be real in how we're talking about it because we need people to take us seriously. Right? And so I think seeing that happen and being much more real with the circumstances that we're in. Sydney Chifetz [00:48:14]: But I think with that too is authenticity. So folks just being more authentic about what their experience is, whether that's folks in recovery being more authentic with that and and sharing their experience more broadly. And then I think to Dylan's point is that idea of community. I know that belonging is the biggest buzzword in 2024, '20 '20 '5, whatever, with student affairs. But I think we understand the importance of community, not only for student affairs professionals. Right? Because it can feel like we are in the trenches together, but also for students because they're having a much more similar experience than I think sometimes they recognize. But if nobody's talking about the fact that many students are feeling the same way, and obviously, all of our lived experiences is different, but it's when they start to talk about their experiences, they recognize they have more in common than they don't have in common. So I think the authenticity that is being increasingly brought into these conversations, the willingness to say the hard but real thing, and then also the community that is not only evident of staff members on campus and doing this work together, but also that we are kind of upholding within the student community, recognizing that they can and should be there for each other and and help each other out and, you know, that this experience is not we can convince ourselves that we are going through this experience alone when in reality, most college students are having similar thoughts or similar challenges. Sydney Chifetz [00:49:36]: Right? Recognizing that they happen in very different ways. But it's when we talk about them and we can see that we are not different, we are not isolated, that this is sometimes a very normal part of the human experience that we just need a way and words to be able to talk about it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:50]: And finally, looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards the future? Sydney Chifetz [00:49:55]: Okay. Yeah. Two

3/27/25 • 63:13

This week we will be taking a break while Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis will be attending the NASPA Conference. They look forward to seeing you at the conference and will be back after the conference! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, SA Voices listeners. Again, for those of you who are able to join us in New Orleans, we hope that we have gotten to see you this week. For those of you who are listening from elsewhere on planet Earth, thank you so much for bearing with us this week as we take our annual week off in order to produce content for the conference. When we come back, we'll bring you the episodes that we've recorded down there as well as bring you the episodes from our fellow colleagues who were able to share their voices with us. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:51]: Thanks so much, and we'll see you again real soon. This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@nasa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:34]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

3/20/25 • 01:56