WhyWork Podcast

Season 06 Episode 07 - We revisit the right to disconnect.Trajce provokes conversation on the Fair Work Amendment (Right to Disconnect) Bill 2023 among the team again. Sara asks, “Why did we throw legislation at this? I want to know - how did they develop their problem statements? Is this legislation really hitting the mark? Are there system designs to protect workers versus needing to rely on legislation to advance these rights when the world of work has moved on from the 9 to 5pm, five day a week, patriarchal workplace?"“Court is the last resort,” marvels Trajce, “But I think these sensible measures are failing.”Alan explains the origins of these laws, protective of schoolteachers and principals. She asks about why we did not pivot, leverage a rich opportunity in the pandemic, to radically review how and where education is delivered to schoolchildren. Trajce agrees, “Maybe the parents might be less stressed too!”Sara pontificates on workplace rhythms and tribal culture. She speaks about the top level of Maslow’s Hierarchy, activities that inspire, elevate, and meet aspirations. Sara explains Charlie Grantham theories on work-life balance versus aspirations that require work intensification: wellness, wellbeing, and wholeness. This episode includes some remix of S05 E03: Grab the Pilates socks - its our 'Right to Disconnect' time!

10/14/24 • 29:06

Season 06 Episode 06: Scope creep and Snag-areesWARNING: This episode includes sexual inferences.“The power of the beep is getting to Trajce’s head,” says Alan. “This is a very serious podcast,” Trajce protests.The cause for the bleep is revealed: “Oh my gosh,” Sara says through laughter, “There is a ‘snag, drag, and bag’ phrase online describing people pulling fish out of the ocean, a ‘snag drag queen’,” she jeers, while exclaiming that, “This is a ‘snag-aree’!”Trajce gets back to case law, telling a story about a newly-appointed receptionist at a UK law firm. He describes all the ‘extra work’ she takes on, resulting in work conflict. Sara comments, “This sounds like ‘scope creep’."Sara reports on a media story about the covert reenactment of a congested hospital ER system during a ministerial visit. “A spurious scenario re-enactment?” Trajce is incredulous. Alan exclaims, “Like the boy who cried wolf!” Sara reminds subscribers that these stories are the reason why she and other chapter authors developed the Healthcare Insights book.For more about the origins of the bleep and snag-aree conversation, listen to Season 05 Episode 05: Shimmyin' on the dance floor .

10/7/24 • 30:16

Season 06 Episode 05: I spy with my little eyeSara introduces the topics of ‘design for crime’ and surveillance systems with predictive analytics generated by artificial intelligence. Alan speaks about his experiences with intelligent surveillance systems and their ability to see, feel, hear, and determine responses. Alan explains that business must establish their purpose and context when using video surveillance before consulting legal teams. “Bingo!” exclaims Sara, “Explain the design brief.”Alan presents a work health and safety case in which the regulator charged a work health and safety manager for their alleged inadequate development of a work procedure. “Wait, WHAaaaT?” questions Sara, “This will rattle the industry because workplaces encourage worker involvement in developing procedures – it is fundamental consultation.” Alan explains that this is a hallmark case, marking a new area for the intrusion of work health and safety legislation. “There is a high level of immunity for health & safety representatives and government-approved work health and safety officers, but at any other level a worker’s involvement represents risk exposure.” “What a discouragement,” resigns Trajce.

9/30/24 • 25:52

Season 06 Episode 04: A bonza boom & crash: Decommissioning with dignityTrajce and Sara compliment Alan’s dress sense - smooth, Italian, Mafioso, modelled after a Kappa soccer sports brand, while Sara reflects on her ‘rugby mum’ look for the day. Trajce teases Sara with her unlaced shoes in contemporary gangsta-fashion, primed for larceny. “It’s a sport and leather vibe,” says Trajce.Trajce contemplates the need to evaluate a design journey, going beyond the pointy end of an event with direct causational pathways. “A designer is a parent of consequences,” he declares. The crew focus on examples of decommissioning in design phases. “Deconditioning with dignity,” Trajce phrases.

9/23/24 • 31:28

WhyNOT? A Wisdom Shot: BONUS. Respectful workplaces contrast with those in which managers demand working to unrealistic standards. Trajce cautions, "Attitudes like this could be construed as belittling, bullying, and harassment."For more on this topic, listen to S05 E11: German work.

9/18/24 • 01:02

Season 06 Trailer 06: An uppy or a downy - potty talk prep - WhaAAT? We've reached the lowest watermark - prelude.

9/17/24 • 01:21

WhyNOT? A Wisdom Shot: BONUS. Alan explains that work health and safety law penalties are deterrants. Often, executives and officers are not intentional criminals, and yet criminal law applies to breaches of workplace health and safety obligations. Alan elaborates, "It's extremely rare that an employer has wanted an employee to be injured or consciously thought about causing injury, but the penalties serve as deterrants and are thought to improve workplace practices across industry." For more on this topic, listen to: S05 E08: Smooth criminal: The sociology of industrial crime.

9/16/24 • 01:03

Season 06 Episode 03: Roger rabbit, reconciling responsibilities: Who’s job is it anyway?WARNING: This episode discusses road safety fatal hazard exposures and construction failures.“A cream bun goes a long way for you,” Alan teases Trajce when Trajce admits that he could never prosecute a baker.Alan describes a work health and safety legal case when a football club grandstand roof collapsed during construction. The construction workers were fortunate to avoid significant injuries.Sara regales a story about her drive home from her son’s rugby practice when a car sped past theirs travelling up the wrong side of their neighbouring lane. She adds to the story with another event - a car collision that no one wanted to clean up. “Who’s job is it anyway?” asks Trajce, as he examines the confronting idea of false comforts, “In systems, we blindly trust,” he says.

9/16/24 • 30:02

Season 06 Trailer 05: A teaser about road construction discussions. WhyWork?

9/14/24 • 01:01

Warning - this trailer mentions fatal incidents.Season 06 Trailer 04: A teaser on the exploration of the entertainment industry and issues of principal contractors managing subcontractors - it all blows up when there is a fatality.

9/11/24 • 00:54

Season 06 Trailer 03: Awww. Stay Louder... Flashback Season 05 E12: Awww. Stay Louder and moving on to the the bulls and the cows... Moooo...

9/10/24 • 01:17

Season 06 Episode 02: An uppy or a downyWARNING: This episode includes discussion about the fatality of a child.“Are you an ‘Uppy’ or a ‘Downy’?” asks Alan.“We have reached the lowest watermark on the show here,” says TrajceAlan is entertained by Sara’s social media post about universal in public facilities. “Are we living for design or are we designed for living?” queries Trajce.“Exactly!” exclaims Sara, “Design shapes behaviours.”Alan introduces the idea of prosecution of designers. Trajce pontificates on causational chains of responsibilities. Sara recalls a media-reported incident of a badminton racquet malfunction and splintering that allegedly caused the fatality of a child. She advocates for human factors approaches when integrating technologies in work systems.

9/9/24 • 35:59

WhyNOT? A Wisdom Shot: BONUS: "What are your designing for? For what and for whom are you designing? What is your design objective?" Sara prompts, while Trajce expresses his frustration with workplace investigative approaches. He argues that workplace investigators clamour to use an on-trend investigative tool without understanding its scope, merits, or alignment with the industry and geographical jurisdiction. "If you're going to play cricket, make sure that you're on the cricket pitch, and not the football oval." he analogises.

9/8/24 • 01:09

Season 06 Trailer 02: We're back, we're going to bust it up, swimming upstream - tales of Mafia ties, crime & misconduct, bullying, the right to disconnect, complex investigations.

9/8/24 • 01:00

Season 06 Trailer: We're back, fresh from tour - welcome to the system.

9/5/24 • 01:19

WARNING: FATALITIES ARE DISCUSSEDWhyNOT? A Wisdom Shot: BONUS: Behind the laughing clowns. "Things can go awry," Trajce explains, "fun, risk, recreation, and entertainment... these are not often used in the same sentence, but they should. Behind the laughing clowns are serious items of fixed and mobile plant." The prosecutor in Trajce warns us all that recreational pursuits can have deadly consequences. For more on this topic, listen to: S02 E02: It's Hollywood and it's a gas, S02 E02: Reality TV and me, S03 E05: Whakaari - The smouldering dragon, S03 E06: Cha-cha-cha thrill rides, S03 E07: Intentional design and submersibles, S05 E07: We've gone Barney, and S05 E12: Awww, Stay. Louder. Bang!

9/2/24 • 01:12

WhyNOT? A Wisdom Shot: Bonus: Sara praises Trajce's use of empathy maps to dissect victim impact statements and case law. She's certain that her design-thinking arguments are influencing his work. Alan is a little confused and cannot stop giggling: it's a hoot for Owl-inn....

8/28/24 • 01:50

Warning: This episode discusses workplace fatalities and complex injuriesSeason 06 Episode 01 is a special release extended episode, recorded live on stage at the Mechanical Engineering Safety Seminar 2024 sponsored by the New South Wales Resources Regulator (NSW MESS 2024).The WhyWork Podcast rabble rousers, Alan Girle, Trajce Cvetkovski, and Sara Pazell wrestle with the idea of good design strategy in mining. “Section 22,” prompts Alan, referring to the Australian Work Health and Safety Act sections 22, 23, 24, 25(4) – “…give adequate information, including any conditions necessary to ensure safe use of the plant.” Sara seeks statements from members of the audience in this live recording at the NSW Mechanical Engineering Safety Seminar 2024 on some recent design-related system failures in mining with mobile plant. The team debate these issues, including recent case law. Alan shares his ideas on the consequences of being placed under investigation. The team consider the sections of the law pertaining to design provisions and pit them against what is reasonable and practicable. Listen to Trajce get excited over his latest jurisprudential project on “proximate causation.” The podcasters discuss the risk of under-design in systems and the ‘over-design’ in some technologies with plenty of bling that might not solve the intended problems. “Don’t overcook the chook!” exclaims Trajce.“Is it fail safe or safe-to-fail design strategy?” asks Alan. The team explore these differences in philosophy, use cases, and design approaches. They consider a holistic approach to design thinking: the context; the environment; the task; the machinery; the operator; the work system; the job design; the management; the governance and regulations; and the people, pedestrians or other vehicle and plant operators, around the machinery that might act in unpredictable ways. Sara advises the team on her strategy to prompt this deep thinking in organisations when adopting new technologies or constructing new environments by asking three simple questions, “Is there a way?” “Can you play?” and “Can you stay?” She waxes lyrical about the enduring impact of good design and her passion to help organisations get this right if they want to achieve resilience, productivity, and sustain their desirable health and safety outcomes.This episode presents ideas on:Design thinking and design strategy in miningCase review on mining equipment and system designInvestigating design-related equipment and system flawsSystem design and resilience, closing the communication loop on design-related realities to cause ongoing improvementsNote:The WhyWhork Podcast sends a special shout out to Dr Martin Stirling of HILTI Australia for his useful explanations on being a “value engineer” and “co-operation”, Japanese style, in his conversations with Trajce. We love your work!

8/26/24 • 67:31

WARNING: SEXUAL HARASSMENT IS INFERREDWhyNOT? A Wisdom Shot: Bonus: "The festive season is upon us," Alan cautions, "make sure that if you are shimmyin' on the dance floor, the person you're shimmyin' with wants to shimmy with you as much as you do!" This Wisdom Shot broaches the all-too-common and uncomfortable scenario of the mix of alcohol and workplace festive parties. For more on this topic, listen to past episodes: S05 E04: Office spirits: Culture & Controversy, S05 E05: Shimmyin' on the dance floor, S02 E07: 4 Men and Women 2: Nightstalker fright night, and S01 E01: Bubbles of Trouble.

8/19/24 • 01:09

Season 05 Bonus Episode 14Risk versus reward, reliability versus resilience: Trajce, Alan, and Sara explore these tensions. Trajce wants to talk about investigations and the sex industry, while Sara and Alan poke at Trajce’s sensitivities to Harvard Business Law style jargon. Alan, however, also wants to talk about sex trades with a throwback to Season 05 Episode 13: Wiggle it, just a little bit. He distracts Sara when she advocates for studying success (in addition to failures and faults) and the need to communicate simply when it comes to workplace investigation findings. She expands on ideas about high-reliability organisation (HRO) precepts by using her design lens.“Why is everyone using a sledgehammer to crack open a macadamia?” asks Trajce, when he considers the industry practice of adopting an on-trend accident investigation tool, "just because…" Alan asks about investigations in brothels and he wants a simple answer, though Trajce and Sara manage to frustrate him with their lawyer-like speak with “it depends” and other such "definite maybes."

8/5/24 • 27:36

Season 05 Episode 13 - We're getting jiggly.Warning: Adult content and humour.“We’ve got vibration, we’ve got noise, we’re getting jiggly here,” chimes Trajce. Sara describes the X, Y, Z axes of vibration measures. She tells a story of how she’s been attributed a certain type of ass-jiggling nick name.Alan live-records his demonstration of simulated tractor operation trial while testing the Whole Body Vibration mobile phone application developed by Professor Robin Burgess Limerick of the University of Queensland Sustainable Minerals Institute. The crew recognise Margarita Mandic of the Sunshine Coast in this episode also. Trajce tries to sneak away with whole body vibration testing homework until Alan threatens to grab his arse. His live-recording demonstration proves that he tests with red-hot injury risk.

7/29/24 • 23:46

WARNING – This episode presents content on workplace fatalities – listener discretion is advised.With a word play on cosmetics branding, Trajce frames the scenario explained by Sara: A naturally curious 14 y/o, an electric display vehicle, a shopping centre, and the make up counter. “This is like a red bull, a caged beast,” Trajce makes the analogy, “An ‘Awww. Stay. Louder!’“ moment, much to Alan's pained laughter.“No monkeying about,” leads Alan, as Sara describes another news story about work in the zoo when a worker gets caught inside the enclosure of a silver back gorilla, Elmo. Sara talks about communication and human-information processing using visual storyboarding to improve work practice, a design strategy that differs from convention risk and compliance measures.

7/22/24 • 29:27

Season 05 Episode 11: German WorkWarning: This episode discusses Anti-Semitic work behaviours.“Is ‘German work’ a standard of work?” Trajce asks as he recounts a story on a manager who berates his Aussie teams, “’You’re F’n stupid!’ “ the manager tells his staff.Even mid-employment dispute, this manager showed no contrition. “He believed that he was forced to speak in this manner,” Trajce elaborates, “because the culture of work in Australia was far too lazy and lackadaisical for him.”Sara shares a story of a New York firm with whom she was once associated. In this firm, the manager tried to compel an Australian team member to sign their proposed work contract, “It’s not like I am making them wear concrete shoes and putting a gun to their head!” the New York representative lamented. “I don’t think that is going to work in Australia…,” Sara sweetly acknowledges..Alan encourages the team to “unplug from it all’,” remembering life at age 22…

7/15/24 • 40:10

Season 05 Episode 10: Stubble stash and mug matsTo fit or not to fit?This episode discusses a WhyWork Podcast subscriber’s concern on managing the scenario when a bearded worker must wear a mask for their health protections at work. “Get better equipment,” is not the easiest mandate in this complex situation, says Count van Count, aka Trajce. He is expressive while displaying his well-groomed goatee. Alan agrees, recounting reasons why some people find this an emotive issue: cultural, religious, or industrial events.Sara confirms that Alan and Trajce often speak on the complexity of real-world events that can trigger reviews on employment; industrial; civil, and work health, and safety laws. She recalls the story, ‘The Best of Enemies,’ made into a movie, about the relationship between the American Civil Rights Activist, Ann Atwater, and the Klu Klux Klan member, C.P. Ellis. In this story, a lawyer navigated complex community race relations using a mediation process called a ‘charrette.’ The lawyer skilfully implemented this process, the characters achieved consensus and, surprisingly, formed a lifelong friendship thereafter.The crew, Alan, Trajce, and Sara, continue to debate the need to articulate purpose and context before determining solutions in work design. Trajce likens this to incident investigation and event analysis methods versus chasing any on-trend tool that might not suit organisational purpose.

7/8/24 • 32:54

Season 05 Episode 09: A prism party and colour cascadeWARNING: This episode presents topics on workplace fatalities and suicide - Listener discretion is advised.Sara announces the publication of a new book of which she is a co-editor, “Healthcare Insights: The voice of the consumer, the practitioner, and the work design strategist.” “The intent,” she explains, “is to empathise and to understand situations from many points of view. It’s like holding a crystal to the sky, and seeing different colours refract when you spin it around,” says Sara. Trace concurs, “Storytelling and narratives are prisms to view a different world.” Tracie elaborates on his contribution to a chapter in another book in the Workplace Insights series on Good Work Design, using empathy maps to articulate victim impact statement. “That’s golden,” Sara exclaims, “That’s from working with me! I love that a past state prosecutor is using empathy maps in storytelling.” Trajce recalls, “We used empathy maps in our safety conference presentation on distributed work emerging from the pandemic”. Alan retorts, “I remember that conference. I think there was some trivialisation of alcohol at that event!”Alan and Trajce reflect on their careers in work health and safety law, and on some critical cases. “The downside of workplace criminal law,” Alan deducts, “is that everyone suffers.” Trajce adds, “This is unintentional crime.” Sara shares a subscriber’s, Craig McDonald’s, concerns about causational chains of responsibility, especially when governments constrain capital expenditure in transport infrastructure. Conversely, the podcast crew debate the notion of spurious injury claims and the weaponisation of alleged psychosocial harm.Full disclosure: gremlins invaded the studio ghost in the machine, faculty cables during recording caselaw discussion, we know, we know, but the content was too good to omit. Enjoy!

7/1/24 • 41:10

Season 05 Episode 08: Smooth Criminal: The sociology of industrial crimeWARNING: This episode discusses fatalities in the workplace. Listener discretion is advised.In this episode, Alan broaches the topic of industrial manslaughter by describing a case involving a forklift operation fatal incident in a stonemasonry company in New South Wales. This prompts Trajce to reflect on a case where a prosecuted employer ritualistically honoured the anniversary of the death of their worker by paying for an ode of remembrance in the bereavement section of the local newspaper to acknowledge how much the apprentice was missed.“This shows how these events take a huge emotional toll on all parties involved in a fatal incident,” explain Trajce, “These are not crimes rationalising a standard criminological lens. These are crimes involving unintentional harm. It fascinates me because of the sociology of crime – the industrial criminal who commits crimes unintentionally.“These deterrents, the fees, no matter the cost, will never cure the hurt. In the court of public opinion, it will never be enough,” Alan empathises.Sara dreams of a world that balances the punishment with reward to motivate people to exhibit desired social behaviours. "It's basic neuroscience," she says.

6/24/24 • 32:17

Season 05 Episode 07: Trajce raises the issue of the Barnaby Bother. It was a Boisterous Barnaby Bumble… Alan explains the alcohol-infused ‘Barnaby bumble’: It made national news, all around Australia, and it was highly embarrassing to anyone involved. Trajce reminds the crew that Zahi Steggall, Member of Parliament New South Wales, SW MP, has implored, “We must do something about alcohol use in parliament.”We cannot trivialise this. Yet, alcohol consumption is culturally indoctrinated in Australia. Trajce announces his publication on trivialisation of risk in the workplace. Alcohol-related activity is one of the 6 typologies found in Reality TV, a reflection on daily life. “It’s trivialisation dissonance,” he says, “The media industry code of practice that advocated for protections from occupational psychosocial exposures during production has been removed at the same time that this material arose in general workplace guidance materials,” “It's not good for popular culture TV viewing without it,” says Alan.For the subscribers, look out for Trajce’s ‘booky-book’, as Sara labels it, on the trivialisation of risk and hazard exposures in the workplace.“It’s the little things that matter,” Trajce notes.For more on alcohol consumption at work, listen to Season 05 Episode 04: Office Spirits: Culture & Controversy and Season 05 Episode 01: Bubbles of Trouble.

6/17/24 • 22:31

WhyWork Podcast subscriber Anna Linning asks, “How are different organisations managing the phenomena of digital and instant communication modes in their business - Teams, social media, intranets, and the like?” “Doctor, doctor, give me a call,” Alan chimes, reflecting on Anna’s work in an Australian occupational medical practice.The team debate the Fair Work Amendment Bill 2023 on the right to disconnect because of the issue raised by Anna: the communication impact on mental and emotional load. “I’m finding major problems with this amendment,” scoffs Sara, “Have we returned to that Caucasian, male, privileged work convention?” Alan replies, “… this is one-way legislation.” Trajce adds, “… you must go straight to the source. Don’t go to Dr. Google,” he advises, “The devil is in the details, it says ‘must’,” but it says “unless the reason is for an emergency, OR a genuine welfare matter, OR compensated. The ‘etcetera’ is important.” “Disconnect is analogous to Stop. It’s a stop sign,” Trajce announces, “It’s vexed, Anna, it is vexed. It begs answers on these questions:· What does contact mean?· Is the allowance reasonable?· What constitutes an emergency?Trajce, Alan, and Sara concur on one aspect, “For a little amendment, we’re going to get a lot of traction out of this…” they chime.For more on the ‘Right to Disconnect,’ listen to Season 05 Episode 03: Grab the Pilates socks – It’s our right to disconnect. For more on the Emoji and GIF hieroglyphics in workplace communication, listen to Season 04 Episode 01: The GIF gal and the Emoji man.

6/10/24 • 23:50

WARNING: This episode references suicide and sexual matters.The WhyWork crew debate the contest of being forthright in social relations. Trajce reveals a case of a young, drunken lawyer determined to approach a colleague on the dancefloor at a work party. The courts deemed his behaviour to be highly inappropriate and sexualised. This sounds like Season 01 and Episode 01, ‘Bubbles of Trouble.’ “It’s rather sudsy, ” Alan reflects. “It’s the ‘A’ word,” says Trajce, “the Aaa-lcohol that subjects a young person to a new state of vulnerability. This is a common theme.” “Ten Bundies and Coke might erode a few boundaries,” he rationalises, and he exclaims, “There are consequences of shimmying on the dance floor!” “Do we need a specific memo on this? Really? A team of lawyers reverted to shimmying as their defense strategy?” begs Sara.“When you think of discomfort, you think of WhyWork!” badgers Trajce to the laughter of Alan and Sara. “Go the edge,” urges Sara. “Go the edge! I love taking Trajce to the point of when he blushes to our banter,” she teases. Alan urges management teams to learn from the real-world scenarios of work. “Sex and sexual urges are a ‘thing’ when working with people. Organisations must consider this in their risk assessments,” Sara advises. Trajce recalls a matter in school education involving a confronting mix of Midori and marijuana.Sara sends a shout out to The University of Queensland’s Professor Hugh Possingham. She gives her thanks for his teachings on sustainability, transparent decision making, ecosystems, sociopolitical forces influencing ethics, and multiple points of view.

6/3/24 • 34:53

Sara laments the damage to her little toe that got no roast beef, “… and it was on my birthday!” she punctuates the story. No, she hadn't been drinking...The team debate the idea of drinking at work, particularly when it is distributed. Sara describes a case when a teacher concluded his remote video call with his employer by drinking from a cask of wine. When disputed, the parties agreed on the facts that this violated workplace agreements and code of conduct.Alan slurps his lemon soda in the background as Sara and Trajce debate the ideas and optics on drinking at work when work occurs anywhere and cultural appreciations sway the judgement on these matters. “Easy fix - turn the camera off,” says Alan, the defense lawyer.Sara announces, “Strong is the new skinny,” when reflecting on The Tradies underwear ad with the Honey Badger Cummins and Winter Olympian Danielle Scott and Women’s Sevens Rugby star Charlotte Caslick. Alan explains the ad, "They are in their underwear, boogying on film, hair blown by a leaf blower." Trajce challenges the idea on a participatory approach to run focus groups in the workplace to determine team member comfort or reactions to new policies, procedures, and material that is ‘on the edge.’

5/27/24 • 34:36